RealFantasy Pigskin - Progress Report
- Thread starter Super Nomario
- Start date
Hey, if someone with a PFF account could look up the grades on the following guys (who do not, to my bleary eyes, show up on the images posted up thread), I'd be thankful:
Levine Toilolo, TE (Atlanta)
James Casey, TE/FB (Philly)
Rick Wagner, OL (Baltimore)
Devonte Holloman, LB (Dallas)
Champ Bailey, CB (Denver)
All were used sparingly and may not have had the requisite number of snaps to qualify for that "leaderboard".
EDIT: If I used the same methodology as Laddie above, I get a 100.1 total (68 on offense) without ST and 126.5 with ST (and no punter - how much am I deducting for no punter? Because Brady punted once for a 0.0 grade and I'll take that over a penalty)
Levine Toilolo, TE (Atlanta)
James Casey, TE/FB (Philly)
Rick Wagner, OL (Baltimore)
Devonte Holloman, LB (Dallas)
Champ Bailey, CB (Denver)
All were used sparingly and may not have had the requisite number of snaps to qualify for that "leaderboard".
EDIT: If I used the same methodology as Laddie above, I get a 100.1 total (68 on offense) without ST and 126.5 with ST (and no punter - how much am I deducting for no punter? Because Brady punted once for a 0.0 grade and I'll take that over a penalty)
Thanks ElCab - wow, that last minute effort by Holloman really knocked things down on defense.
Final Offense = 69.3 (we're really good)
Final Defense = 16.4 (no, not really)
Final w/ ST = 112.1
Final w/o ST = 85.7
Apparently, I would have won Laddie's division by a considerable margin.
Final Offense = 69.3 (we're really good)
Final Defense = 16.4 (no, not really)
Final w/ ST = 112.1
Final w/o ST = 85.7
Apparently, I would have won Laddie's division by a considerable margin.
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
As you should. They aren't perfect.
In fact, when we break down the divisions, I think it would be wise for each team to include traditional statistics (TDs, INTs, Fumbles, Sacks, Tackles, etc) to help supplement the PFF numbers in order to give everyone a more complete picture of how your team performed throughout the season. If you've got a pro bowler or an all-pro on your squad, call it out. If your WR was the league leader in receptions, include it.
PFF isn't perfect, but it's a relatively unbiased way of evaluating a player's overall impact in all facets of the game. But it's just one way to evaluate our players, not the only way.
And don't get mad at PFF just because they think your team stinks.
ElcaballitoMVP said:
It's funny actually, they have it as rather mediocre which I think is worse.
Looking over my team, I'm not as down on them as I was a few weeks ago -- outside of the WRs and LBs, it's actually decent. Dalton's not terrible and the two lines were excellent. Add in a decent RB group, a #1 CB and a top kicker and things aren't that bad.
CaptainLaddie said:
You've probably got the best OL in the division. If/when our teams played the battle between your OL and my DL would be epic.
Rolling two ten sided dice is a completely unbiased way of evaluating a player's overall impact. It's still awful.ElcaballitoMVP said:
Maybe it's a misprint, but does PFF really have Forte at 8.9 and Jaquizz Rodgers at 8.8?
Yes. They grade Forte is the worst pass-blocking RB in football at -5.5 (while Rodgers is +2.5). Forte is better at everything else per their numbers. Since only two RBs in the entire NFL were asked to pass-block more, it's hard to imagine Forte's really as bad as they say.Myt1 said:
It's like they're pulling numbers straight out of their ass. I've got Zuttah with a shit grade even though he didn't give up a sack. Torrey Smith a 1,000 yard receiver with a 1.5. Mychal Kendricks a frickin Pro-Bowler with a -10.0... I think they're full of shit.
I'm quoting John McClain in what was supposed to be a response to the absurd comparison between my RBs based on pass blocking.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
To be fair, if my team sucked by the PFF numbers I'd also be claiming they're bullshit.
But since my team seems to be pretty good by the PFF numbers, I'm gonna say that the time to register complaints about the PFF grade being part of the evaluation process was a long time ago and smokescreens to the contrary are poor form.
WHERE'S MY +25% BRADY BONUS!?!?!
AFC South. Numbers compiled by Phragle
Totals
[tablegrid= AFC South Totals ]Pos Texans Jaguars Tactlenecks Colts O Total 42.4 86.9 17.7 9.4 D Total 60.3 20 56 -50.8 ST/Supp Total 19.9 67.1 38.7 39.9 Total 112.6 174 112.4 -1.5 W Total 185.7 504.7 20.42 -148
Breakdowns in following posts to prevent post nonsense per SSF.
Totals
[tablegrid= AFC South Totals ]
Breakdowns in following posts to prevent post nonsense per SSF.
soxfan121 said:
I remember being pretty pissed at losing out on him. Eye of the beholder and whatnot.
BTW JerBear, you may want to only have 2-3 charts per post. Otherwise it screws up the rest of the posts. Yeah, it's an IP Board bug.
Offense:
[tablegrid= AFC South Offense ]
Defense
[tablegrid= AFC South Defense ]Pos Texans Rat Jaguars Rat Tactlenecks Rat Colts Rat DE1 Kamerion Wimbley -4.9 Elvis Dumervil 27.4 Calais Campbell 41.7 Jason Pierre-Paul 2.7 DE2 Robert Mathis 31.4 Shaun Phillips 6.6 Shea McClellin -28.4 Everson Griffen 4.7 DT1 Linval Joseph 9.9 Randy Starks 28.8 Fletcher Cox 14.8 Tyson Alualu -15.4 DT2 Paul Soliai 11.1 Kendall Langford 2.6 Dan Williams 8.4 Dwan Edwards 0.7 ILB1 Derrick Johnson 15.4 Curtis Lofton -7.2 Sean Lee 8.7 Jo-Lon Dunbar -9.5 ILB2 Brian Urlacher NA London Fletcher -28.4 Desmond Bishop 1 Nick Barnett -1.7 OLB1 Zach Brown -3.9 Wesley Woodyard -5.8 Jamie Collins 2.3 Craig Robertson -18.1 OLB2 Chase Thomas NA Sean Porter NA Jason Worilds 9.5 Larry Foote -3.1 CB1 Brandon Browner 2.8 Tim Jennings -0.1 Sam Shields 0.4 Joe Haden 8.4 CB2 Stanford Routt NA Asante Samuel -0.2 Chris Culliver NA Aqib Talib -0.3 CB3 Ras-I Dowling NA Coty Sensabaugh 0.8 Davon House -2.6 Buster Skrine -13 FS Dwight Lowery -1.6 Thomas DeCoud -16 Rahim Moore 0.2 Malcom Jenkins -6 SS Tyvon Branch 0.1 Donte Whitner 11.5 Phillip Thomas NA Kurt Coleman -0.2
[tablegrid= AFC South Defense ]
Suplemental/Special Teams/ Totals
[tablegrid= AFC South Other Stuff ]Pos Texans Rat Jaguars Rat Tactlenecks Rat Colts Rat SUP Nick Toon -4.2 Lamar Holmes -32.3 Charles Woodson 1.8 Matthew Slater -0.7 SUP Greg Salas -0.7 Ron Brooks -2.8 William Gay 11.1 BJ Coleman NA SUP Brandon Ghee 4.9 Damon Harrison 34.8 Taylor Thompson 1.4 Khiry Robinson -0.4 SUP Michael Hooman -11.2 Kion Wilson -2.1 Tyrod Taylor 0.2 Mike James 7 SUP Jeff Demps 1.2 Jermaine Kearse 3.9 AQ Shipley -14 Jaron Brown 1.1 K Josh Scobee 25 Blair Walsh 29.5 Adam Vinatieri 13 Ryan Succop 22.5 P Tim Masthay 4.9 Thomas Morstead 36.1 Matt Bosher 25.2 Kevin Huber 10.4
[tablegrid= AFC South Other Stuff ]
I think its a weighted total using some multipliers that Phragle came up with. I didn't get the math, only the results. I totaled the O and D based on original drafts as I didn't take the time to plug in supplementals when required.soxfan121 said:
My team total is somewhere around 200. My teams not crappy. The PFF numbers are still bullshit.soxfan121 said:
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
1. You got something better?
2. You ever gonna explain WHY they are bullshit or do we just need to content ourselves with the knowledge you "feel" they're bullshit?
3. Smokescreen. If PFF says your team is good, then I, too, question the PFF numbers.
JerBear said:
I think the 10x for QB's might be a bit too high and the ST/10% a little too low, but this is how the AFC East shakes out.
Still hate the PFF scores, Eck? Best team in the East.
ElcaballitoMVP said:
Already added the outcomes from what you posted earlier. Thanks again for doing that by the way.
And, yes I still think they're full of crap. I was going through some numbers yesterday and noticed a few inaccuracies.
soxfan121 said:
1.I don't have anything better than looking at straight statistics, no.
2.I'll get in depth a little later when i have some time to go back through the charts DoDM posted and list some of the numbers I thought were off.
3.Exactly. Because it's a great team.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Better than the same weight as the QB!
soxfan121 said:
What do think we're doing with these numbers? They aren't deciding games.
I'm going to run through my buddy Nick Foles for starters:
Ranked 16th with a 5.4 overall rating and a 5.6 pass rating according to PFF
2891 yds 317 ATT
Comp% of 64 which would put him 9th: Better than Wilson, Brady, Cutler, Luck and Romo all rated ahead of him. .2 worse than the Rapist.
9.1 yds per attempt would be 1st
27/2 TD/INT ratio 1st
27 passing TD's would put him 8th: Ahead of all of those above, except switch Romo(31) for Ryan(26). 1 less than the Rapist.
NFL Rating 119.2 1st
Jay Cutler: 10.0 pass rating from PFF
2621 yds 355 ATT
63.1 Comp%
7.4 yds per attempt
19 TD's to 12 INT's
NFL Rating 89.2
Russel Wilson: 13.1 pass rating from PFF
3357 yds 407 ATT
63.1 Comp%
8.2 yds per attemp
26 TD's to 9 INT's
NFL Rating 101.2
How is it possible for Wilson and Cutler to double the pass rating from PFF despite less productivity?
Edit: To add, the worst part about the PFF scheme, from what I can tell, is that it's purely subjective. It's not based off of actual quantifiable things like in baseball sabermetrics. It seems like it's based off of opinions of people watching games and trying to attach numbers to actions. That amounts to an absolute shit ton of noise.
Ranked 16th with a 5.4 overall rating and a 5.6 pass rating according to PFF
2891 yds 317 ATT
Comp% of 64 which would put him 9th: Better than Wilson, Brady, Cutler, Luck and Romo all rated ahead of him. .2 worse than the Rapist.
9.1 yds per attempt would be 1st
27/2 TD/INT ratio 1st
27 passing TD's would put him 8th: Ahead of all of those above, except switch Romo(31) for Ryan(26). 1 less than the Rapist.
NFL Rating 119.2 1st
Jay Cutler: 10.0 pass rating from PFF
2621 yds 355 ATT
63.1 Comp%
7.4 yds per attempt
19 TD's to 12 INT's
NFL Rating 89.2
Russel Wilson: 13.1 pass rating from PFF
3357 yds 407 ATT
63.1 Comp%
8.2 yds per attemp
26 TD's to 9 INT's
NFL Rating 101.2
How is it possible for Wilson and Cutler to double the pass rating from PFF despite less productivity?
Edit: To add, the worst part about the PFF scheme, from what I can tell, is that it's purely subjective. It's not based off of actual quantifiable things like in baseball sabermetrics. It seems like it's based off of opinions of people watching games and trying to attach numbers to actions. That amounts to an absolute shit ton of noise.
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
He played in 13 total games, starting a total of 10. Because without looking too deeply at it, that would explain why he is rated behind other players like Wilson or Brady, who played all 16.
But let's put aside QBs for a moment - do you think using raw stats to compare WR (for example) is problematic? How about evaluating OL play?
I mean, I get that the PFF numbers are a bit arcane and difficult to replicate and hard to understand...but I'm still not sure what the alternative is or why its bad to use this as one of the measures.
I'll look forward to your write up on why your team is better than its PFF grades and all the other data you bring to the table. However, your arguments to this point have been unconvincing.
soxfan121 said:
So glad you went that route. Cutler only started and played in 11. Also, please explain then how Josh McCown who played in 8 games and started 5 was given a pass rating of 14.3? Or Aaron Rodgers received a 12.9 while playing and starting 9?
I'm not saying raw stats are perfect, I'm just trying to point out how crazy the PFF numbers seem to be. I'm also not saying not use them, I'm just trying to discredit them.
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
And you're doing a shitty job. But I'm repeating myself.
I look forward to YOU putting in the effort to "discredit" the PFF numbers. I'll be glad to read and consider your reasoning when you do so. You might even be right. But up to this point, all you've done is whine that your system QB is undervalued by PFF and that he was better than Jay Cutler. Bang up job, smokey. ;-)