Red Sox Deadline Discussion (nothing is credible) thread
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JBJ_HOF said:
Relievers tend to have a short shelf life. Cishek's K/9 is at a career low, his BB/9 is at a career high and his FIP/xFIP are both higher than they've been in his career even if they are noticeably lower than his ERA. I don't think he's strictly a victim of BABIP bad luck.
He's interesting, but if interest is high from other contending teams, he may not be worth the cost.
Cishek's from Falmouth. Which will be of interest at least to mabrowndog and Gammo.
Edit: of course they know already.
Edit: of course they know already.
Boston Red Sox: Losing two of three to the Yankees and ace Clay Buchholz to a strained flexor muscle makes for a big downer. The Sox are only 6½ out, so really they are trending sideways. How will they replace Buchholz? They are said to be watching Cueto closely, but would they give up a lot for what could be a rental?
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/12/who-rising-falling-mlb-all-star-break/vHjumrWBlAcoco9fwqeX8H/story.html?event=event25
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/12/who-rising-falling-mlb-all-star-break/vHjumrWBlAcoco9fwqeX8H/story.html?event=event25
Can we actually credit any of these "Sox scouting Cueto" rumours? I just can't see this FO expending prime prospects on a rental. Now .. I could see it if a Negotiating Window was included .. But they seem to have gone by the board in recent years. Besides ,the Reds are going to have plenty of other offers.
I can see a Hamels/Papelbon deal as much more likely
I can see a Hamels/Papelbon deal as much more likely
Couldn't the scouting rumors just as easily be attributed to the Sox doing their own due diligence in case they decide to make Cueto an offer after the season?BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
I was going to post same and yes since moving assets when in last place doesn't pass the smell test nor anything I'd expect out of Ben, Larry, or whoever is calling the big shots these days. Cueto does pass the common sense test of pursuing over the winter.YouLookAdopted said:
And offering who? Napoli who Scoscia hates? Victorino who can't stay on the field? Leon? What does BC have to fill and of those needs?FanSinceBoggs said:
Folks, the Sox are not bailing out on Pablo or Hanley after three and a half months. They're not. Get over it.
Nor are the Angels taking on hanley's contract, especially when they're currently paying Hamilton to play in Texas. So unless you are proposing a complete salary subsidy, it's not happening. And if you are proposing that, I'd question your sanity.
Nor are the Angels taking on hanley's contract, especially when they're currently paying Hamilton to play in Texas. So unless you are proposing a complete salary subsidy, it's not happening. And if you are proposing that, I'd question your sanity.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Thank you. I am not sure what is more annoying, those suggestions or the comments to trade Pedey.
The Red Sox, according to a major league source, have been scouting Reds righty Johnny Cueto quite often. While the Sox want to go after more controllable pitchers, the odds seem short of being able to pull that off.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/17/decision-time-for-john-farrell-red-sox/j5dH12b5OufyMumyo2cBtO/story.html?event=event25#
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/17/decision-time-for-john-farrell-red-sox/j5dH12b5OufyMumyo2cBtO/story.html?event=event25#
Without an extension included (no idea why Cueto would agree to that) I'd imagine we would be the first last place team to trade prospects for a rental. That is so Henry/Lucchino.soxhop411 said:
Cueto's agent is Bryce Dixon who doesn't seem to be a big power player ala Boras. Cueto is by far his highest paid client and he's still in arbitration. Additionally, Cueto seems like someone with simple tastes who is happy to sit back and just concentrate on baseball while other people hammer out his contract. (http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-02-19/johnny-cueto-reds-will-pay-him-top-dollar) Ignore the headline and read the quotes from him. He seems laid back about the whole thing.
Maybe the Red Sox know something we don't and feel that they have a good chance at signing Cueto long term. If he's a player who values stability and winning over getting every dollar he can, maybe re-signing him in the offseason is a manageable obstacle.
Maybe the Red Sox know something we don't and feel that they have a good chance at signing Cueto long term. If he's a player who values stability and winning over getting every dollar he can, maybe re-signing him in the offseason is a manageable obstacle.
It benefits a seller to have the Red Sox "involved", if only to drive up the price for other teams by getting one of the deepest farm systems involved in trade negotiations. The Sox may have been considering Cueto during their mini-run before the Yankee series, but he's making less sense as each day passes. However, there's little harm to either team at this point in floating that the Sox have had scouts in attendance to see if you can get the Yankees or Blue Jays to up their offers or throw in that lottery prospect your scouts love.
If the Sox are that comfortable with landing Cueto long-term, I'd prefer to keep the prospects and make a run at him in free agency. He's going to end up there anyway, no matter where's he's traded, or his agent isn't doing his job properly. It seems foolish to me to give up prospects without a guarantee of him resigning, which I just don't see happening. There will be a number of quality options on the free agent market, so if they can't get Cueto, they can look to a Greinke or Zimmerman to lead the staff.
If the Sox are that comfortable with landing Cueto long-term, I'd prefer to keep the prospects and make a run at him in free agency. He's going to end up there anyway, no matter where's he's traded, or his agent isn't doing his job properly. It seems foolish to me to give up prospects without a guarantee of him resigning, which I just don't see happening. There will be a number of quality options on the free agent market, so if they can't get Cueto, they can look to a Greinke or Zimmerman to lead the staff.
Gammons was on the Rich Eisen radio program a few days ago, and suggested that Cueto could be a long-term fit for Boston ... "given his ties to Pedro Martinez."
The Cueto/Red Sox portion of the discussion occurs at the 8:30 mark
http://www.richeisenshow.com/2015/07/14/peter-gammons-of-mlb-network-discusses-mlb-all-star-game-pete-rose-71415/
The Cueto/Red Sox portion of the discussion occurs at the 8:30 mark
http://www.richeisenshow.com/2015/07/14/peter-gammons-of-mlb-network-discusses-mlb-all-star-game-pete-rose-71415/
HomeRunBaker said:
Keith Law touched on this recently - every team has scouts at pretty much every game. When reports start coming out that "team X is scouting player Y heavily" it's usually just bullshit. I wouldn't read much into this.
The Dodgers, Cubs, Rangers, and Red Sox are among the clubs still interested in Cole Hamels, reports Ken Rosenthal in his latest video for FOX Sports. Boston is expected to scout Hamels’ start tomorrow, and we can assume other clubs will have a heavy presence as well. Talks with the Rangers aren’t dead, but Texas does expect other teams to make a better offer.
Mlbtr
Mlbtr
Hamels will be 32 next season. This seems to go against their M.O. of over-30 SPs. That's 24.5 mil per if they do the buyout, plus there's the rumor that Hamels would want the '19 option picked up by the Sox (perhaps he's backed off that).
16:$22.5M, 17:$22.5M, 18:$22.5M, 19:$20M club option ($6M buyout)
That's not a bad contract but is it something you want to give up good, young talent for?
EDIT: An interesting contract that is similar is James Shields (34 next season).
16:$21M, 17:$21M, 18:$21M, 19:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
Interesting tidbit:
16:$22.5M, 17:$22.5M, 18:$22.5M, 19:$20M club option ($6M buyout)
That's not a bad contract but is it something you want to give up good, young talent for?
EDIT: An interesting contract that is similar is James Shields (34 next season).
16:$21M, 17:$21M, 18:$21M, 19:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
Interesting tidbit:
- deal does not include no-trade clause, but Shields may opt out of contract after 2016 season (no later than 3 days after World Series)
Is this like when someone out here in CA hears I'm from Boston, they may say "hey, do you know Joe Schmoe, he's from Boston too?" Gammons has lost a lot of his cred, hasn't he?E5 Yaz said:
Shields has been pretty bad so far this year. He's never had much of a split, but this year he's getting hammered by left handed batters(.911 OPS). He's also given up 20 homers(4 more than Porcello), half of which coming in Petco.Hee Sox Choi said:
Overall, a WHIP of 1.32(worst since 2010) and batters are OPSing .796 against him(far worse than any year since 2010). And half his games are at Petco.
Not saying he's toast, but there are definitely some red flags.
If he values winning why would he sign an extension with a team that's about to finish last for the third time in four years?BosRedSox5 said:
BosRedSox5 said:
In other words, he was asked a question about his contract status and he gave the answer every single player in the history of sports has ever given, minus about 3. I wouldn't read too much into this
99% of athletes, especially baseball players, go to whomever offers the most money.
Amid rumors of the phillies starting their selling process there was a large Phillies contingent at the Portland/Manchester game last night. A friend of mine was at the game and said there were a ton of scouts there.
Swihart did catch on his rehab assignment last night and of course Margot is there. Of all our "close to MLB-ready" prospects the one who I'm most fine moving in a Hamels deal is Swihart as much as I like him.RedOctober3829 said:
I disagree, I think Swihart is a definite keeper. He's got much more to offer the team in terms of his athleticism and was improving at the plate before his injury. Besides, how well Vazquez recovers from TJ surgery is a huge unknown for the team. If they were to deal Swihart, they would be gambling that Vazquez returns to his pre-injury form with no guarantee that will happen. I would agree that either Swihart or Vazquez could have been dealt as part of a package, but Vazquez's injury really messed up the catching situation. Besides, don't most analysts think Swihart has the better offensive upside?HomeRunBaker said:
You'd prefer moving Betts? You are going to have to give up something you don't want to give up to get Hamels. Of course I'd not move Swihart if I didn't have to however our catching situation is fine with Hanigan/Vazquez for the near future. Vazquez had TJ surgery not an amputation.SoxLegacy said:
I would have to get both Papelbon and Hamels back in that deal. Otherwise take a package headlined by Johnson and Margot.HomeRunBaker said:
Why are we giving up anything of value for a player who is likely on the back nine having a mediocre season in a mediocre division? There are going to be much better options in fa and they won't require mlb ready prospects and will likely cost very close to Hamels in $$
No, I didn't say anything about Betts at all in my post. In fact, I was not referring to the Hamels trade possibilities at all. The only thing I addressed was your point about moving Swihart. I hope the Sox hold on to both Betts and Swihart as they build the team--I agree with j44thor that Hamels will cost more than what he's worth. And to your follow on point about Vasquez being OK we really won't know that until next year, will we?HomeRunBaker said:
Tim Britton @TimBritton 7m7 minutes ago
I think we tend to overrate the presence of scouts anywhere. If Red Sox don't know Hamels by now...
I think we tend to overrate the presence of scouts anywhere. If Red Sox don't know Hamels by now...
The Hamels trains has left the station and will be heading elsewhere, because this team shouldn't want him, and I hope the high level 'scout' watching him today is on it.
If Blake's bat is + for catcher, he must be kept.
Browsing the current Sox diamond there're aren't enough + bats, particularly young + bats.
Oh, and the other guy just had his gun rebuilt and lacks bat.
I think improving the pitching will solve all of these perceived problems.
Can Blake be Tek 2.0, or better?
If Blake's bat is + for catcher, he must be kept.
Browsing the current Sox diamond there're aren't enough + bats, particularly young + bats.
Oh, and the other guy just had his gun rebuilt and lacks bat.
I think improving the pitching will solve all of these perceived problems.
Can Blake be Tek 2.0, or better?
I'd be pissed if they moved Devers for a guy like Hamels. Hopefully that's just typical ESPN shit against the wall.
I think I understand the value of scouting, seeing a guy play helps put a lot of things into context... but how valuable is it to personally scout a major league player with 10 years in the league? You can see a video of every pitch, at bat or defensive chance from 10 different camera angles.
It's a necessary evil for amateur players and guys in the minors or foreign pros because you're not going to get the same tape quality and you need a balance of statistical analysis and in person scouting.. but for a veteran MLB guy? How much more can be learned? I'm genuinely curious about the process.
It's a necessary evil for amateur players and guys in the minors or foreign pros because you're not going to get the same tape quality and you need a balance of statistical analysis and in person scouting.. but for a veteran MLB guy? How much more can be learned? I'm genuinely curious about the process.
Pretty sure that's all it is. They simply listed a few of the top Sox prospects.Marbleheader said:
But I agree with you about Devers. I hold onto him.