The "through permissible means" phrase seems to be a dig at the convoluted gray area where the written and unwritten rules commingle.
Service time may not be an issue, but managers are members of the MLBPA.Yes. MLB’s agreement with the MLBPA on service time would not necessarily be applied consistently to discipline of a non-union staff member.
No they are absolutely NOT union members. They are considered part of management. That is why when a manager is suspended during a beanball incident for example, he has to serve his punishment immediately. There is never an appeal of a manager's suspension during these incidents.Service time may not be an issue, but managers are members of the MLBPA.
Who is eligible for membership in the Association?No they are absolutely NOT union members. They are considered part of management. That is why when a manager is suspended during a beanball incident for example, he has to serve his punishment immediately. There is never an appeal of a manager's suspension during these incidents.
Not the the manager would ever want to delay his punishment but I distinctly remember writers saying a manager is not a union member.
Should've just kept it the rest of the year. We all know Cora is coming back.
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IMHO this is far from a gimme. Cora May have come off as innocent here, but what he did in Houston was pretty reprehensible. I don’t want the smell of that here.
But are managers union members,? I am pretty sure they are not union members.It was made clear weeks ago that the Astros suspensions would NOT carry over to 2021 if there was no baseball this year. No reason to think that will not also be the case for Cora. Nothing to do with unions. The way the suspensions were worded, it's not based on games, it's specific calendar dates.
The Red Sox made it crystal clear he was not, “let go.”Red Sox let Cora go based on what he did in Houston. This finding doesn’t change what happened there. So I can’t see them bringing him back next year.
The report from Rosenthal and Drellich about the Red Sox in 2018 came out on January 7th. The findings for the Astros report came out on January 13th. Cora stepped down the next day mostly from the PR backlash that the Astros' findings produced. There was no way they could keep him because of the distractions all the attention from the fallout would have produced this year for the team. Also, there was a chance that the MLB investigation into the Red Sox would find Cora implicated in this as well. It would have looked worse if they kept him around and he did this with Astros and Red Sox. Now that the current landscape is what it is and the findings are what they are, I believe it is more likely they will bring him back. Cora left on good terms with Bloom and the ownership. He still fits what the direction of the organization is w/r/t the use of analytics.Red Sox let Cora go based on what he did in Houston. This finding doesn’t change what happened there. So I can’t see them bringing him back next year.
He won't go all John Wick on us will he?...Cora left excommunicated...
@Papelbon's Poutine quoted your initial post with the fact that they are union members and you asked the exact same question again. WTF?But are managers union members,? I am pretty sure they are not union members.
Who is eligible for membership in the Association?
All players, managers, coaches and trainers who hold a signed contract with a Major League club are eligible for membership in the Association. In collective bargaining, the Association represents around 1,200 players, or the number of players on each club's 40-man roster, in addition to any players on the disabled list.
https://www.mlbplayers.com/faq
Last 50 Red Sox 2nd-round picks:I know a 2nd round pick in baseball is still a crapshoot, but for what MLB themselves are saying in this report and the actions they are taking (banning Watkins), a 2nd round pick actually seems like a really harsh penalty to me. So, the guy revised the decryption of signs using video replay during a game, told some players, it was not systematic and MLB is acknowledging it was merely occasional and management was not aware, and the franchise gets hit with a 2nd round pick? I get that MLB needs to save face a bit, but that seems a bit much.
Still, if Cora comes back now, it will be worth it.
Well, that says they're "eligible" for the union but notably were not listed in those represented by the Association in collective bargaining.@Papelbon's Poutine quoted your initial post with the fact that they are union members and you asked the exact same question again. WTF?
My reading of the MLBPA FAQ page you linked is that while managers and other non-players are eligible to join, only players are covered by a collective bargaining agreement.@Papelbon's Poutine quoted your initial post with the fact that they are union members and you asked the exact same question again. WTF?
If this season is totally cancelled (I doubt this will happen), it's quite possible the Mets will have hired two managers in a row who wouldn't manage a single game for them before replaced, since Brodie is going to hire his college roommate (literally, they were) Hinch as soon as he realistically can.Hinch's suspension counts as time served even if there's no 2020 season, so the same is likely for Cora
FYI, You can also use the ispoiler tag and it will blur out the line just like this This this is wicked awesome and I love it2 (4%) became stars who will at least be nominated for HOF balloting: you already know them. Jon Lester (2002, 44.8 WAR) and Dustin Pedroia (2004, 51.6 WAR)<-- hidden
Huh? He was "fired". Am I missing something?The Red Sox made it crystal clear he was not, “let go.”
Yes, he went to the Red Sox and told them that because of the Astros report and his punishment pending that he would be too big of a distraction in 2020, they agreed to mutually part ways.Huh? He was "fired". Am I missing something?
So he was let go.Yes, he went to the Red Sox and told them that because of the Astros report and his punishment pending that he would be too big of a distraction in 2020, they agreed to mutually part ways.
Neither. He offered his resignation, they acceptedSo he was let go.
Or is this semantics?
The MLBPA has three different divisions, the union, the business division and the charity division. Only MLB players are members of the union and covered by the CBA. Others can participate in the business (licensing of images, official merchandise) and the charity arms of the Association.My reading of the MLBPA FAQ page you linked is that while managers and other non-players are eligible to join, only players are covered by a collective bargaining agreement.
I don’t know what it means to be a member of the union, but not have them bargain for terms and conditions of employment on your behalf.
Except they didn’t do anything wrong and punishing them only would have looked like a coverup for Brady anyway.This is how Goodell should had handled Deflategate. Make clear this was done by rogue employees (McNally, Jastremski), and leave it at that.
Different level of ownership pressure unfortunately. He can’t even close this Bengals thing even though there’s nothing there because a bunch of owners hate the Patriots and Belichick.This is how Goodell should had handled Deflategate. Make clear this was done by rogue employees (McNally, Jastremski), and leave it at that.
Great research, thanks for this. One question - wasn't Fred Lynn a second round draft pick?Last 50 Red Sox 2nd-round picks:
3 did not sign (6%); 2 of those eventually made the majors, most "notably" Lance Blankenship
26 signees never made the majors (52%)
9 who played MLB were at- or below-replacement level (18%), including Kevin Romine and old friend Abe Alvarez
6 (12%) had no meaningful impact (career WAR < 5), although 1976 pick Glenn Hoffman managed 2163 ABs while accumulating 0.3 WAR.
4 (8%) had credible careers (WAR 5 - 17), including Alex Wilson (2009 / 303 GP), Kelly Shoppach (2001 / 573 GP), Justin Masterson (2006 / 258), and Jeff Suppan (1993 / 448)
2 (4%) became stars who will at least be nominated for HOF balloting: you already know them. Jon Lester (2002, 44.8 WAR) and Dustin Pedroia (2004, 51.6 WAR)<-- hidden
If you place the major-league value of a player who never makes the show at 0, then we're talking losing an average of 3 WAR from this pick. You'd also have to factor in the value of having a pre-arb / arb salary on the books, but I'm not sure that changes the analysis.
Either way, the Sox lost something of only small value. By comparison to first-rounders (e.g. Hurst, Clemens, Vaughn, Nixon, Nomar, Lowrie, Buchholz, Ellsbury, JBJ and Benintendi) it was a pretty light sanction.
Think about it. Why was Brady suspended?This is how Goodell should had handled Deflategate. Make clear this was done by rogue employees (McNally, Jastremski), and leave it at that.
Didn't there used to be a thing about putting managers and coaches on the 40-man roster in September to earn enough service time as a player for a pension?The MLBPA has three different divisions, the union, the business division and the charity division. Only MLB players are members of the union and covered by the CBA. Others can participate in the business (licensing of images, official merchandise) and the charity arms of the Association.
This is delicious. Oh how I love their pain.I love bathing in the tears of the butthurt. A good deal of r/baseball believes Mr. Watkins is a scapegoat, we got off too light, and that the lack of evidence suggesting serious wrongdoing is due to us shutting up and not having a Mike Fiers around to blow the whistle.
It no took a long time to make sure the trail of followed breadcrumbs did not exit Fenway Park.It took this long to wrap up this investigation? Okay then.
Talk about a ton of wasted bandwidth for no reason, thanks MLB.
L’Affair JT.The biggest loss will be replay operator JT Watkins, I'm gonna miss that guy
Can we now call the the JT Watkins Affair?
I believe it used to be important for logging service time to qualify for a pension.My reading of the MLBPA FAQ page you linked is that while managers and other non-players are eligible to join, only players are covered by a collective bargaining agreement.
I don’t know what it means to be a member of the union, but not have them bargain for terms and conditions of employment on your behalf.
“I am relieved that these MLB investigations are concluded and that Commissioner Manfred released his finding that I did not violate any MLB rules as a member of the Red Sox organization in 2018 or 2019. I am grateful for the Commissioner’s thoughtful and thorough investigation relating to my conduct as Red Sox manager. I also take full responsibility for the role I played, along with others, in the Astros’ violations of MLB rules in 2017. The collective conduct of the Astros organization in 2017 was unacceptable and I respect and accept the Commissioner’s discipline for my past actions.
“I would like to thank my family, friends and the Red Sox organization for their support throughout these investigations.
“Finally, on a much more serious subject, my thoughts and prayers go out to all of the first responders, healthcare professionals, essential workers and all the families who have lost a loved on to COVID-19. We all need to help each other during this difficult time.”
This is smart - it gives cover to Bloom so that he can undertake his own managerial search at the appropriate time without the expectation that Cora will be brought back. Given ownership's clear feelings of affection and appreciation for Alex, he can still conceivably be brought back if no better candidates are available, but there shouldn't be an assumption that the job is his.
Chaim Bloom: "All the reasons that we parted ways with (Alex Cora) then are still the case.''
this is not the SI of your youth. Even if you are only 18 it isn’t the SI of your youthSports Illustrated putting up a title that's way over the top, IMO:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-scandal
I am not seeing that from this.Seems pretty definitive. He’s done here.
I mean, it doesn't take a huge leap in logic to believe that's what happened."Along with others" and "collective conduct" of the Astros.
Sounds like Alex thinks he's getting more blame for what down in Houston then he should have?
I know writers/reporters don’t really have anything to do with headline copy, but Verducci should be embarrassed to have his name associated with that blatant, pandering, click bait. While MLBs findings and actions can’t really be called complete vindication, they were about a million miles from concluding that the 2018 title was tainted. Just shut it down SI, if this is the kind of Russian bot-level rubbish we can expect going forward.Sports Illustrated putting up a title that's way over the top, IMO:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-scandal
As is cbssports.com...Steve Buckley and Shank are pushing the '2018 title is tainted', 'this goes on their record' narrative as well.
Over the top is putting it mildly. Verducci has gone out of his way to point out that none of this impacted the post-season in 2018, among other significant differences from Houston. And that headline's being used to make points by other commentators is really, really annoying.Sports Illustrated putting up a title that's way over the top, IMO:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-scandal
I have my doubts that the pandemic lessened the severity of the punishment. Even before everything closed down, there were hints and rumors that the investigation was wrapping up and there'd be an announcement forthcoming, but it kept getting pushed back. The impression that gave me was that they were simply continuing to dig to find something where there really wasn't much of anything. Then the pandemic made it more difficult to do that digging, not to mention priorities changed dramatically.We will never know, but I can't help but wonder if the punishment would have been more severe had the pandemic never happened. This announcement really feels like Manfred wanted to get it over and done with and avoid any further embarrassment to MLB at this precarious time.