Yes, exactly! I don't think I'm some kind of Bloom booster! I just actually want to see what he does before I decide whether I like it or not, and I'm aware that a GM/PBOps' work doesn't take shape in a single offseason.
It really is ridiculous, isn't it? Boston has always been difficult but it seems like it's really ramped up these past two or three years. The constant complaining, the need for instant gratification. I mean, christ, even if it was "Bloom's fault" that we finished last place in 2020 and 2022, so what? He's quite clearly trying to build something. There's going to be some lean years. Every team goes through it. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that Henry & Co. are content to sit around .500 in perpetuity just because Bloom is running the show. That's the great thing about winning 4 World Series titles in 20 years - I can live with a few last place finishes if it means a better, more sustainable on-the-field product in the near-to-medium future.
I guess I should explain...
It does seem really extra these days. I think about this sometimes while lurking around and waiting for things to happen.
You nailed it right on the head. This is the exact reason I've left Overthemonster: too much whining about playing .500 ball in perpetuity and not understanding that to build a sustainable on-the-field product you actually have to build a team! Whiny fans have become such a problem that the more reasonable folks are leaving the site in droves.
On the one hand you are right about skepticism. On the other hand, while the last place finish is very real, the "information" upon which the skepticism going forward is based is much much more likely to be unmitigated agenda-driving bullshit, which only has a tenuous relation to reality.
The owners have generally been good at this and so has the GM.
FWIW, Speier is only reporting what Boras is saying as he holds court with the media at the Winter Meetings. While clearly it's still agent posturing, as you put it, but it's a bit more legitimately news/tweet worthy than whatever Boras might be whispering in Heyman's ear in private settings.
The Sox were in the vanguard of analytics driven player selection, but then fell behind the curve in analytics driven player development
Isn't this backwards? How would the Sox let or not let another team match them?
The Sox should not have been as mediocre - they weren't bad - as they were last year. Injuries to the pitching staff - 4 of 5 starters down at the same time - were devastating. Plus, if the Orioles hadn't managed to return from the scrap heap, we would not have been in last place in 2022, anyway. As was posted earlier, while you're building a team, you're going to have years where you're approximately .500. It's all part of the process.
Some teams will put an offer out to a free agent and say either take the deal now or lose it if you try to shop this around. This is what happened with Jacob deGrom. According to WFAN's Boomer Esiason this morning, the Rangers offered him the 5/185 and said if you shop this back to the Mets it's off the table.
Understood, but the quote was from Boras, not Bloom. If the question is whether the Sox would let him shop the offer it doesn't matter what Boras thinks, and vice versa.
I guess he means he doesn't care about the teams involved. Just the biggest deal possible for his client.
Skepticism is completely fine, and to be sure, I'm not trying to be the great arbiter of Red Sox fandom in 2023. Anyone can root, root, root for the home team in any manner they see fit. And I think we can all agree that it wasn't much fun watching the 2022 Red Sox and we all want a better ballclub in 2023 and beyond.
Right. In the end it's up to Bogaerts to say "let's check back in on Boston" or not. Boras does what his client tells him to do and has no power that he doesn't derive from the clients he represents.
I'm super patient after all the success of the last 20 years but the fallow period after '07 included a few really great years falling just short. Then there was the Chicken and Beer season and the Valentine year and the fan base was pretty much losing it's fucking mind. Not many people were thrilled with the direction of the team or it's offseason before '13 in which it looked like Cherington was just putting a "make it look like we're competitive" club together. The rotation was iffy... Lester was the ace but wasn't quite in the same category as other top aces. Buchholz was always injured and couldn't be consistent. Lackey was loathed across New England. Ortiz was getting old. Lots of other issues. Who was their "closer"!?!?!?
If this is accurate, then I think X is a steal at that price. I get Turner being more desirable/valued, but tough to see him as 50% more valuable.
Exactly. Boras will do whatever he can extract the most money for his client. Not even a crappy agent would ever say publicly, "we will give x team a chance to match", even if the player had directed them to do this. That would scare away offers, and drive down the price for the client who wants to stay at home. It's also in Boras/Xander's interest to tell everyone they are still engaged w/ Boston, even if they think Boston doesn't have the best offer, again to simply drive up interest in the player and the price.
This is true but I'd argue that the Sox's pitching staff, as constructed, probably carrier greater injury risks than most. Between veterans with long and/or recent injury histories and younger guys with little experience starting at the MLB level, it was partly a disaster waiting to happen. If both Eovaldi and Wacha leave without serious replacements, 2023 could be even worse. Right now you have:
Does it? Assuming the contract isn't something totally unconventional, it sounds like a solid value if Turner landed 11/300 with a full NT clause. The talk has been that X would land a contract in roughly the 8 year range - I'd take him all day at 8/200 with the market being what it is.
You'd have to think that Tanner Houck is likely to get traded, right? He's between roles, and his personal conduct put the team in a lurch last season. Not quite Clevinger levels of effing over his teammates, but certainly not the kind of team-first attitude and dedication one would like to see.
I think I said my top offer would be 6/$180m, but 8/$200m doesn't really seem much more expensive to me. Lower AAV, longer deal, similar money. So maybe I'm talking myself into 8/$200.
Why are you posting then? Wait until the day before Spring Training starts and write your measured post season take then.
I didn't mean to imply that I'm a better or a smarter fan. I'm sorry if my thoughts came off that way. I know there are many people on this board who are a hell of a lot smarter than I am.
Agree with all of this, but I'm afraid it's a phenomenon that's not unique to the Boston fanbase. I live in NJ, and the crying of MFY fans these past few years has been completely off the charts. Maybe "crying" doesn't fully capture it - it's more of a sensitivity to swings, both high and low. When things are good, they are the best, the players are wonderful, etc. When things go wrong, everything is some massive organizational failure, or players aren't "playing with heart", or some other such nonsense. I have NYY fan friends who were certain that Boone and possibly Cashman would get the axe this offseason due to their obvious ineptitude. This is after a 99 win season that ended with an ALCS loss to the eventual WS winners.
This is completely fair but a fair amount of us spent last off-season convinced Chaim wasn’t going to start the year with JBJ in RF and counting on question marks at 1B too but he did. Happy and hopeful to be proven wrong this off-season, but on some level there is precedent.
If I were Chaim, Houck and Rafaela are the pieces I'd be most willing to package in a trade for a cost-controllable player like Murphy or Reynolds. Houck's posted excellent results in albeit limited innings, and it's still early enough that a team like OAK could really view him as a starter. With Rafaela, you have the ability to capitalize on a consensus top 100 prospect at potentially his maximum value. Not saying it's the exact same situation or that they are better/worse prospects, but Duran and Yorke illustrate the downside of hoarding every breakout guy. I get that Rafaela potentially fills a position of need as early as 2024, but if you can fill a similar position of need in the lineup or rotation that's under contract for 2 to 3 years without trading Casas/Bello/Mayer that's something to really consider.
