RFP Rules & Procedures: Year 2

mascho

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Good deal. Sounds good.

Also, once this wraps up and before the Supplemental a draft we should have the passing of the torch from MMS to the next governing body/competition committee/whatever. That way the new leadership can get working on in-season ideas and anything else that sounds good.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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mascho said:
Good deal. Sounds good.

Also, once this wraps up and before the Supplemental a draft we should have the passing of the torch from MMS to the next governing body/competition committee/whatever. That way the new leadership can get working on in-season ideas and anything else that sounds good.
 
Yeah, this has to be done.  So far it looks like SuperNomario, mascho, Eck, JerBear and myself have volunteered to step up in some capacity. 
 
I have no problem helping out but I do have a couple of issues, though. One, I'm on the west coast, so it's tough for me to send out PM's and contribute early in the day when a lot of you have been up and active on the site. But if we had 1 or 2 guys on the east coast, this may be a good thing, as I can take over duties later in the day. Two, and more importantly, is my schedule goes from being wide open to being pretty crazy from week to week, so there are times I'll need to check out. 
 
If 3 other owners want to step up and take the reigns, I'm still willing to fill some sort of support role and help out when needed, such as making sure PM's are sent out by the end of the day and putting together some in-season PFF numbers. But if any of the owners above have changed their minds and want out, I'm more than happy to be part of that committee. 
 

mascho

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I'm of the mind that the more heads we have helping to run this thing, the better. I mean, I can't imagine a league like this is anyone's number one priority (although it should be you fuckers. This is serious internet business). If we had even five or six people on this competition committee or whatever we are calling it it might make sense. As would people in different time zones. That way if, for example, we are in a draft and the east coast people check out before midnight Eastern, people out west can keep things moving as needed.
 

soxfan121

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Bump. Draft is over. Time to get down to business on how this thing runs for the next year. 
 
Speak your piece or forever hold it.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Proposed rule: If a player retires, is put on season ending IR or is arrested for murder before the season, teams have the option of cutting the player and picking up a free agent. 
 
Last year I lost my kicker before the season and didn't have a chance to replace him. In real life, the team would've picked up a free agent off the street.
 
Proposed rule: Related to the above: Allow teams a 1 or 2 player IR slot where you wouldn't have to cut a player, but he'd be out for the season and you can pick up a free agent to take his place (ideal for guys you'd like to keep the following season). Player would have to be on season ending IR for them to be eligible to be moved to an IR slot and can be done during the season. 
 
Last year I lost my starting LT in week 2 and didn't have the ability to pick up a replacement. With expanded rosters, this is less of an issue this year, but it would still be nice to have the option to fill a glaring hole so we can field teams that aren't missing starters. 
 

Old Fart Tree

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Proposed rule: Anytime ESC's smokescreen defense faces a 3rd and more than five, the offense fails to convert. They're just that fucking good.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Old Fart Tree said:
Proposed rule: Anytime ESC's smokescreen defense faces a 3rd and more than five, the offense fails to convert. They're just that fucking good.
OFT. You are awesome.

Proposed Rule: Anytime OFT has a 4th down on offense he automatically converts because Al Motherfuckin Davis says so. Oh, and Aaron Rodgers is pretty good too.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Alright. Let's get down to motherfuckin business here. Football is upon us and the RFP is in need of some tweaking.
 
We obviously need some sort of supervisory role to be put in place. I'll back out and say SN, mascho, ElCab, Jer and DoDM should be the competition committee. That's five which means no ties.
 
First things first Trades. I honestly think what we need to do is start with a simple yay or nay on trades and then try to work out the specifics afterwards. I'll post a poll later.
 
Rosters. Need to be filled (i.e. K, P, and the ability to field a full 11 man squad on both sides of the ball) by the end of the supplemental draft. Rosters can be questioned for not being full and arguments can be made. The verdict will hinge on a committee vote. I propose that we continue with the off season drafts with increasingly less rounds due to rosters getting close to 53.
 
Supplemental Draft. Two more rounds to give us adequate depth. I propose sometime after the second preseason game and it should go no later than the first game of the season. If a player has retired an extra few rounds will be given at the end to those who need to drop said players and add current ones. All drafts will remain in the same order as the pre season draft.
 
Injured Players. Any team that ends up with an injured player shall receive an add/drop. Unless that player is put on IR designated to return then you're SOL. Any player on IR can be put into one of two IR slots but it is the choice of the owner whether or not to drop said player and add another or to keep the player on IR and add another. At the reset of the year (i.e. before the draft) the player(s) added to the roster while the owner used their IR slot(s) will automatically be released.
 
Stealing. I propose that stealing be relegated to one round and if an owner decides to steal an unprotected player from another team they will lose their 3rd round pick in the following draft to the team they are stealing from.
 
All I got for now.
 

Phragle

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I agree that the stealing round was too aggressive.
 
I think teams should be allowed to turn their rosters over more if they want to. There are a couple teams just filled with shit that need to rebuild.
 

DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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I'm against any in season transactions. I know not all 32 managers are as fully engaged as some of us and this will only widen the gap between those that are here day to day and those that pop in from time to time. I don't believe everyone signed up for a full year fantasy type season (and though most have stuck around) I think this could lead towards even more discourse between the two groups. 
 
I think it's a good idea in theory and I'd love to follow this league day to day, but I think we'd be better off with sticking to certain 'in stone' schedules, to ensure people have enough time to plan around their every day lives.
 
edit: by in season transactions I'm referring to IR slots, adding and dropping players, NOT trades (I'm all for trades)
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
I'm against any in season transactions. I know not all 32 managers are as fully engaged as some of us and this will only widen the gap between those that are here day to day and those that pop in from time to time. I don't believe everyone signed up for a full year fantasy type season (and though most have stuck around) I think this could lead towards even more discourse between the two groups. 
 
I think it's a good idea in theory and I'd love to follow this league day to day, but I think we'd be better off with sticking to certain 'in stone' schedules, to ensure people have enough time to plan around their every day lives.
 
edit: by in season transactions I'm referring to IR slots, adding and dropping players, NOT trades (I'm all for trades)
 
I tend to agree with this.  I think the league works best when there are concentrated periods of attention (ie, the draft, maybe a free agency/trading period) and then everybody can go about their lives for a while and not have to worry about their team or falling behind.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Alright. Let's get down to motherfuckin business here. Football is upon us and the RFP is in need of some tweaking.
 
We obviously need some sort of supervisory role to be put in place. I'll back out and say SN, mascho, ElCab, Jer and DoDM should be the competition committee. That's five which means no ties.
 
 
I'm guessing there are no problems with this? All five guys are on board?
 

JerBear

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
 
I'm guessing there are no problems with this? All five guys are on board?
Sure thing. I've been quiet in the other thread as I have nothing to add.
 

Phragle

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I'll be in the committee if any of them don't want to be. Just don't expect me to do a lot of work. 
 
So no one wants to even discuss letting the shitty teams rebuild more? I don't really think it's fair for a guy like Wibi. Even my - awesome and stacked - team is carrying a bum.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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phragle said:
I'll be in the committee if any of them don't want to be. Just don't expect me to do a lot of work. 
 
So no one wants to even discuss letting the shitty teams rebuild more? I don't really think it's fair for a guy like Wibi. Even my - awesome and stacked - team is carrying a bum.
 
 

soxfan121

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phragle said:
So no one wants to even discuss letting the shitty teams rebuild more? I don't really think it's fair for a guy like Wibi. Even my - awesome and stacked - team is carrying a bum.
 
How would this work? I think it ties into whatever the draft/player acquisition ends up being. I like the idea, I just don't know how to accomplish that goal. 
 
I also agree with DoDM (and others) that this thing should have a couple active periods a year and no "in-season" transactions.
 
Defining a schedule, based on draft/player acquisition/roster turnover mileposts would be a good place to start. You know, if we ever get around to voting on any of this. 
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Ok,so phragle wants more roster turnover and we have a couple people who don't want in-season transactions. Any ideas? Thoughts?
 

Phragle

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Proposed Rule: I think rosters are big enough now. I still want the supplemental draft - we need it - but after that they're are big enough. The bigger they get the harder it's going to be to compare rosters at the end of the season.
 
soxfan121 said:
How would this work? I think it ties into whatever the draft/player acquisition ends up being. I like the idea, I just don't know how to accomplish that goal. 
 
I was thinking we lets teams drop as many players as they want then let them pick replacements after the main draft. Not every team is going to want to drop more than four, but the ones that do should be allowed to. 
 
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Ok,so phragle wants more roster turnover and we have a couple people who don't want in-season transactions. Any ideas? Thoughts?
 
But not more mandatory turnover. I just want the option. So instead of the rule reading "drop four players" it would read "drop at least four players".
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
 
I'm guessing there are no problems with this? All five guys are on board?
 
I'm on board. I've been pretty busy with work/vacation the past few weeks, but I'm ready to rock. Let's get this thing going. 
 
Next up: Supplemental draft. 2 rounds. Anyone with a retired player can drop said player after the 2 rounds and pick up a replacement (should we make it that you have to pick up a player at the same position or does it not matter? At this point, I say it doesn't matter since the pickings will be slim anyway)
 
I like the idea of having the option of dropping more than 4 players at the end of the year. I would've added a few more names to that list this year if I could have. But I would say we should put a max on it. Say no more than 8? The issue with this is that the draft in the offseason will be longer and we'll have an uneven amount of picks if teams are dropping different numbers of players. Not a big deal, teams would just have more picks to make at the end of the draft, but with the lack of activity in the draft thread in the last few rounds, it's something we may want to take into account. 
 

JerBear

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OK.  We need to move this forward.  I've tried to compile all the proposals into 1 list below.  Are we letting the comp committee decide on the rules and dates for the supplemental draft? I don't think we'll ever get a complete vote of the whole league done.
 
Proposal - IR/Retire (ElCab & Eck):
If a player is put on season ending IR, retires, arrested for murder, etc the RFP team may release that player and replace them with a free agent. Alternatively we could create some number of IR slots (1 or 2) where you could move a player to the IR slot and pick up a free agent.  At the end of the season the free agent replacements would be released and the IR player reinstated.
 
Proposal - Trades (Eck plus others):
Consensus was that trades are a good idea.
  • When should the trading period start? I'm guessing immediately.
  • Player(s) for player(s) should be proposed through a pm. If accepted the one who proposed the trade should then post it here I guess. (I'll change the title.)
  • People with access to the Google Doc can change the players after the committee votes on the trade and approves.
  • Only two teams can trade at a time. 
  • All trades should be equal in quantity so that rosters remain even.
  • I'll propose that the trade deadline coincides with the RL one.
  • People seem to be iffy on the picks so unless we can come to some sort of agreement I say we don't include picks, at least this year, to see how this trading period goes.
  • Any other questions or comments please feel free to speak up.
Proposal - Supplemental Draft (Eck)
Two rounds sometime after the 2nd game. Perhaps a few extra rounds for people to replace IR/Retired. Same order as the preseason draft. I'm suggesting we start the supplemental draft Monday, August 25 with the same time windows as the preseason draft.  This is after the conclusion of all week 3 preseason games but before the first round of cutdowns.  I wanted to push out until after the first cutdowns but that gets close to the point where we won't be finishing until the regular season starts.
 
Proposal - Stealing (Eck)
Change it to 1 round and the team losing a player gets a 3rd round pick from the team gaining a player.
 
Proposal - Roster Size (Phragle)
Have the supplemental draft but then keep rosters about the size they are now.  Change drop procedure at the end of the season to at least 4 players and allow extra rounds at the end of the draft to fill up rosters to the appropriate size.
 
Anything I missed? If we're letting the committee decide on things we'll likely start with this list so let us know.
 
Also, if there are any "depth chart" changes people would like made on the spreadsheet please PM me.  I'm going to work on cleaning it up later this week and will shift people around as needed.  After the supplemental draft I'm willing to make depth chart graphics if people want.  I'll just need you to send what you want your "base" offense and defense to be.
 

soxfan121

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Thanks JerBear. 
 
I think we need to also put voting procedures/polcies on the list. Given the transient and/or intermittent participation, we need to have some rule about "quorum" or a minimum number of votes necessary to make some decisions.
 
FWIW, I vehemently oppose the IR/additional roster spots. This isn't fantasy football, which rewards active owners on the waiver wire. As of kickoff for Game 1, rosters are frozen until after the Super Bowl. 
 
There should be two draft windows: one in May/June to correspond with NFL draft/free agency. Roster add/drops are done at this time. And a supplemental draft that MUST be completed before the end of the pre-season. This allows our less active members to still be "in the game". IR, players suspended, etc.? Part of the game. Tough shit, better luck next year. 
 

JerBear

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I don't really like the IR thing either, but it was proposed and at least 2 owners did like it so I put it here.  On trades I like just doing 2 teams player, same number of players trades this year and reevaluating next year. I like the stealing proposal but would change the cap to 3 players per team can be stolen rather than 2.  I also agree roster sizes are reasonable right now.
 

DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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soxfan121 said:
Thanks JerBear. 
 
I think we need to also put voting procedures/polcies on the list. Given the transient and/or intermittent participation, we need to have some rule about "quorum" or a minimum number of votes necessary to make some decisions.
 
FWIW, I vehemently oppose the IR/additional roster spots. This isn't fantasy football, which rewards active owners on the waiver wire. As of kickoff for Game 1, rosters are frozen until after the Super Bowl. 
 
There should be two draft windows: one in May/June to correspond with NFL draft/free agency. Roster add/drops are done at this time. And a supplemental draft that MUST be completed before the end of the pre-season. This allows our less active members to still be "in the game". IR, players suspended, etc.? Part of the game. Tough shit, better luck next year. 
 
I agree with all of this. Though I think in season trades are fine (up until the trade deadline), so the rosters aren't frozen during the season in that regard. 
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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soxfan121 said:
Thanks JerBear. 
 
I think we need to also put voting procedures/polcies on the list. Given the transient and/or intermittent participation, we need to have some rule about "quorum" or a minimum number of votes necessary to make some decisions.
 
FWIW, I vehemently oppose the IR/additional roster spots. This isn't fantasy football, which rewards active owners on the waiver wire. As of kickoff for Game 1, rosters are frozen until after the Super Bowl. 
 
There should be two draft windows: one in May/June to correspond with NFL draft/free agency. Roster add/drops are done at this time. And a supplemental draft that MUST be completed before the end of the pre-season. This allows our less active members to still be "in the game". IR, players suspended, etc.? Part of the game. Tough shit, better luck next year. 
 
What about instead of IR/additional roster spots, we make a rule saying each team has to field starters at each position? That way, if someone loses a K or P during the season, they can pick up a free agent at the same position to keep their roster full? 
 
Our rosters are probably deep enough now that if a team lose someone at another position, they'll likely have a backup in place. 
 

Dollar

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I think the problem with that is if I lose, say, my starting QB in week 7 or something, and I don't have a backup, I would be able to find whoever is that year's Kaepernick or Wilson with six weeks of results to look at.  As much as it would suck to lose my QB in the middle of the season, that's part of the risk with this format (and it's why I drafted a backup who can fill in.)  In the event that you lose a guy and don't have someone to plug in for that role, I think it's more fair to assign an imaginary "replacement-level player" rather than let that team pick the most productive not-yet-drafted player.  It seems to be that fine line between turning RFP into a week-by-week fantasy league, or keeping it as an exercise in building a team and evaluating players.  I lean toward the latter.
 
edit: maybe I could see an exception for the K and P positions, but in the larger sense I'm against such a rule change.
 

soxfan121

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Dollar said:
I think the problem with that is if I lose, say, my starting QB in week 7 or something, and I don't have a backup, I would be able to find whoever is that year's Kaepernick or Wilson with six weeks of results to look at.  As much as it would suck to lose my QB in the middle of the season, that's part of the risk with this format (and it's why I drafted a backup who can fill in.)  In the event that you lose a guy and don't have someone to plug in for that role, I think it's more fair to assign an imaginary "replacement-level player" rather than let that team pick the most productive not-yet-drafted player.  It seems to be that fine line between turning RFP into a week-by-week fantasy league, or keeping it as an exercise in building a team and evaluating players.  I lean toward the latter.
 
edit: maybe I could see an exception for the K and P positions, but in the larger sense I'm against such a rule change.
 
Well said. Exactly my concern, and why I would vote against it. 
 

DanoooME

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soxfan121 said:
 
Well said. Exactly my concern, and why I would vote against it. 
 
But that's partly alleviated by ElCab/Eck's idea above of forcing those replacement players to be released back into the FA pool at the end of the season.  So you don't really get to profit for the future, you just got lucky with a stopgap guy.
 

soxfan121

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In "real" football, the options on the waiver wire are sub-replacement level. Unless, TEBOW. But I digress. 
 
It is not "real" to let someone pick up the next Wilson or Kaepernick, even for the rest of the season, because those players don't exist in the real league. They are already on a roster. 
 
Further, it erodes the value of existing backups. I own Mike Glennon, who is quite likely to end up a starter (again) this season when the shitty old guy in front of him turns back into a pumpkin. I could profit from my decision to invest in Glennon last year through trade. With this "rule", my ability to get maximum value from the other team is undermined. 
 
No, this "adding players after Week 1" thing is a bad idea and I'm totally against it. I think that it undermines the point of this exercise. If you lose a player to injury, tough shit. You get a 0 or a below replacement level guy. You don't get to peruse the PFF lists and then pick whomever will help you score the most points going forward. That's fantasy football and not what this thing is supposed to be about.
 

JerBear

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soxfan121 said:
In "real" football, the options on the waiver wire are sub-replacement level. Unless, TEBOW. But I digress. 
 
It is not "real" to let someone pick up the next Wilson or Kaepernick, even for the rest of the season, because those players don't exist in the real league. They are already on a roster. 
 
Further, it erodes the value of existing backups. I own Mike Glennon, who is quite likely to end up a starter (again) this season when the shitty old guy in front of him turns back into a pumpkin. I could profit from my decision to invest in Glennon last year through trade. With this "rule", my ability to get maximum value from the other team is undermined. 
 
No, this "adding players after Week 1" thing is a bad idea and I'm totally against it. I think that it undermines the point of this exercise. If you lose a player to injury, tough shit. You get a 0 or a below replacement level guy. You don't get to peruse the PFF lists and then pick whomever will help you score the most points going forward. That's fantasy football and not what this thing is supposed to be about.
If you don't have a backup and your only guy gets injured, try and swing a trade.  Otherwise, why didn't you have a backup?  I don't think anyone is going to knock you down multiple pegs because your kicker got injured and you "didn't have one".  They'll assume you get a near-replacement level guy.  I don't think any races will be decided by an injured ST guy.
 
It was a bigger deal last year when we really only had 5 backups.  This year we have 15.
 

SMU_Sox

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phragle said:
Can we do some cutting and adding before the season? I think most teams have some fat they would like to cut.
 

 
If we need to cut any fat I suggest we start right here *gestures towards mid section*
 

 
Round 1 to you, sir!
 

soxfan121

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If we are doing a supplemental draft, we need to kick it off this weekend and end it by the opener. 
 
That means you guys who volunteered to take over for MMS need to send some PMs and then decide how many rounds and if there is any dropping of players. 
 
Today. Get on it.
 

JerBear

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Supplemental Draft will officially begin on Monday, August 25th at 8AM.  Draft order and rules will be the same as the regular draft.  No trading of picks this year, we're still finalizing how/if draft picks will be tradeable next year.  As with the last draft, picks are free to be made before the draft officially starts so SSF is on the clock starting right now.  We will NOT be dropping players before the supplemental draft, any drops will be made at the conclusion of this years NFL season.
 
Reminder that anyone without a full roster needs to pick a player to fill the empty slot in R1.  I've highlighted those picks on the spreadsheet to remind those owners.  A new thread will be started for the supplemental draft to keep things organized.  The full rules of the draft will be copied into the new thread for record-keeping.
 
Also, the Bengal Bay Bengals are fined $50k for undermining the competition committee and assuming we haven't been finalizing these plans for the past week.
 

soxfan121

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JerBear said:
Also, the Bengal Bay Bengals are fined $50k for undermining the competition committee and assuming we haven't been finalizing these plans for the past week.
 
There's a competition committee? I'm sure I didn't miss the vote. 
 
Thanks for getting a thread started. But no, we won't be paying that silly fine. 
 

soxfan121

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phragle said:
So can I IR Sam Baker and Sean Lee or what?
 
Ask the competition committee. Apparently they were in super secret meetings before I posted, so I'm sure they have a full report for us.
 

Phragle

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I'm done asking. I will be IRing Sam Baker and Sean Lee after the supplemental draft and picking up two new Tactical Turtlenecks.
 

DanoooME

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I need to replace the retired Sidney Rice (and hope i don't keep losing players to retirements).  Does that happen here?  Do I get an extra pick at the end?
 

Phragle

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For the IR thing what if we allow players to be IRed before the season, but not during. So teams can IR their Sean Lee/Darnell Dockett and pick up rentals, but not find the breakout QB or anything else that's crazy. That should settle anyones issues.
 

soxfan121

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phragle said:
For the IR thing what if we allow players to be IRed before the season, but not during. So teams can IR their Sean Lee/Darnell Dockett and pick up rentals, but not find the breakout QB or anything else that's crazy. That should settle anyones issues.
 
Addresses my concerns. Yes vote from me.
 

SMU_Sox

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Aren't people supposed to set up a public poll and new thread? Wasn't that just stuck in SMUs face?
 
Don't forget to make it public voting if you can figure that out too!
 
IR should get its own thread as it is a major initiative.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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SMU_Sox said:
 
Don't forget to make it public voting if you can figure that out too!
 
IR should get its own thread as it is a major initiative.
 
I think you only have to make a new poll if SF121 disagrees with it or if you propose it.
 
Otherwise we can just have a few people agree to it in this thread I think?
 

soxfan121

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
 
I think you only have to make a new poll if SF121 disagrees with it or if you propose it.
 
Otherwise we can just have a few people agree to it in this thread I think?
 
No, if phragle wants IR slots, he should start a public poll so each team can vote once. If he doesn't and a vote isn't held, then no IR slots. 
 
That is the other reason for public voting; teams with two owners voting twice could skew results.