Robinson Cano suspended for steroids

Philip Jeff Frye

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2001
10,403
His "cheating" process is very likely being utilized by a large number of professional athletes, who have happened to not have been caught.
No kidding. That makes it okay?

I have some sympathy from guys from the 1990s who were taking these things when the owners were turning a blind eye and trainers were handing them out like candy in locker rooms, etc... PEDs were against the rules the way spit balls were against the rules. I have no sympathy for them today.
 

Green Monster

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,278
CT
I saw one report initially that said he did not have to wait to come off the DL to begin his suspension. I tried retracing my steps and I can't find that article so perhaps it has been updated. Has anyone else seen anything like that? If true, what is difference from Steven Wright who had to come off the DL before beginning his suspension??
 

axx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,164
I saw one report initially that said he did not have to wait to come off the DL to begin his suspension. I tried retracing my steps and I can't find that article so perhaps it has been updated. Has anyone else seen anything like that? If true, what is difference from Steven Wright who had to come off the DL before beginning his suspension??
I think it's specifically for PED busts that the time can be served while on suspension.
 

Scoops Bolling

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2007
5,986
Exactly. I mean, Pedroia’s been bald since what age? They all use. Grown men believing their sports heroes are clean is the sweetest fairy tale.
Hold on, what does being bald have to do with it? I've known guys who started balding in freshman year of college who certainly weren't doping. Does Petey's family usually have a head full of hair, or what are we going on here?

EDIT: The guys I knew on 'roids were always much more the football crowd so I don't know if I missed something obvious. I can't claim to know if the newer drugs have obvious signs I have missed, the way the older steroids were always so obvious in the (bizarrely watery/undefined) muscle mass
 

glennhoffmania

king of nothing
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
8,412,007
NY
O'Brien just said he's also banned from the playoffs. Is that true? Why is that?
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,693
O'Brien just said he's also banned from the playoffs. Is that true? Why is that?
Because that's the rule since 2014.

Link

Given the severity of a 2nd-time offense, Cano likely wouldn't dropping his appeal of the 1st-time offender punishment here unless he had virtually zero chance of success
 
Last edited:

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
7,145
Salem, NH
Reports now saying he tested positive for a diuretic not a PED. Diuretics are seen as masking agents and subject to the same penalties as a positive PED test.
I was surprised when I saw what he tested positive for. Does it basically flush out your system to quickly remove traces of a more serious drug/supplement (HGH/Steroids/Andro/whatever)?
 

Couperin47

Member
SoSH Member
Weirdly, the person who this gives me greater respect for is... Ortiz. No question he used, but he found someone who knew exactly what and how to cycle so he was never detected again. Evidently all Dominicans are not close so he never shared his 'expert'. Now understandable that he wouldn't tell Manny as that reckless whack job would inevitably have screwed it all up, but he had the intelligence and discipline to, as he would say, 'keep his fuckin mouth shut".
 

Flunky

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2009
1,921
CT
Arod
Cano
Melky
Cervelli
Pettite

wow... I wonder what the most roided up lineup since 2005 is. It's gotta be this one, right? 5 guys, no speculation. JFC...
 

drbretto

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 10, 2009
12,303
Concord, NH
Exactly. I mean, Pedroia’s been bald since what age? They all use. Grown men believing their sports heroes are clean is the sweetest fairy tale.
I've been balding as long as Pedroia (pretty much since around 20) and I don't take steroids. Your overall point is not wrong, but it's also not really necessarily right to assume/guess.
 

shaggydog2000

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2007
11,806
I was surprised when I saw what he tested positive for. Does it basically flush out your system to quickly remove traces of a more serious drug/supplement (HGH/Steroids/Andro/whatever)?
Yes. It helps flush out your system, and also makes your sample itself more dilute.
 

trekfan55

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 29, 2004
11,711
Panama
@Couperin47
To assume that someone "no question he used" but then had the perfect masking agent/expert guy to flush it down is the ultimate "guilty until proven innocent" scenario. Regardless of who we root for we should never go there.

I know we always poke fun at players and sometimes scream "roid rage" but this is too much assumption.
I am not typing this to defend David Ortiz, I am really typing out of principle. The biggest danger in all of this is to assume "without question".
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,603
I've been balding as long as Pedroia (pretty much since around 20) and I don't take steroids. Your overall point is not wrong, but it's also not really necessarily right to assume/guess.
Well, I think Syndegard is juicing too, so it’s not really hair related.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
It sounds like there is at least some chance that Cano just screwed up by using a diuretic.

If he was using, I don't think you need to jump to the conclusion that he has always been juicing. It's entirely possible that he felt himself declining over the past two years, and becoming more injury prone, and at some time over that period gave in to the temptation to try to extend his prime and "earn" his contract.

But, ultimately, those who say it is naïve to assume that testing has largely stamped out juicers are correct. PEDs are likely somewhat less prevalent than they were in the wild west era, during which it seems Canseco's 70% estimate is probably closer to the truth than we'd like to admit, but I'm sure it remains prevalent nonetheless.
 

Flunky

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 3, 2009
1,921
CT

Rough Carrigan

reasons within Reason
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
It sounds like there is at least some chance that Cano just screwed up by using a diuretic.

If he was using, I don't think you need to jump to the conclusion that he has always been juicing. It's entirely possible that he felt himself declining over the past two years, and becoming more injury prone, and at some time over that period gave in to the temptation to try to extend his prime and "earn" his contract.

But, ultimately, those who say it is naïve to assume that testing has largely stamped out juicers are correct. PEDs are likely somewhat less prevalent than they were in the wild west era, during which it seems Canseco's 70% estimate is probably closer to the truth than we'd like to admit, but I'm sure it remains prevalent nonetheless.
The power Cano showed at the major league level was apparently a huge surprise after what he showed in the minors.
 

mt8thsw9th

anti-SoSHal
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
17,121
Brooklyn
The power Cano showed at the major league level was apparently a huge surprise after what he showed in the minors.
Not really true. He was projected to be a power hitter once he filled out a bit, and his only major concern as a prospect (and young hitter in the majors) was whether or not his lack of plate discipline would derail him as a hitter.

His ISO jump from minors to majors was .147 to .189 (+.042), which is a decent bump, but not as marked as Mookie Betts, who went from .156 to .208 (+.052). Which is to say it's not an entirely uncommon occurrence among good hitters, and something people seem really quick to completely tie to steroids, not to adding bulk with age.

I mean, offhand, here are some others: Hanley Ramirez (+.066), Miguel Cabrera (+.090), Didi (+.043), Aaron Judge (+.118!!!), Gary Sanchez (+.099), Mike Trout (+.087).
 

Rough Carrigan

reasons within Reason
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Not really true. He was projected to be a power hitter once he filled out a bit, and his only major concern as a prospect (and young hitter in the majors) was whether or not his lack of plate discipline would derail him as a hitter.

His ISO jump from minors to majors was .147 to .189 (+.042), which is a decent bump, but not as marked as Mookie Betts, who went from .156 to .208 (+.052). Which is to say it's not an entirely uncommon occurrence among good hitters, and something people seem really quick to completely tie to steroids, not to adding bulk with age.

I mean, offhand, here are some others: Hanley Ramirez (+.066), Miguel Cabrera (+.090), Didi (+.043), Aaron Judge (+.118!!!), Gary Sanchez (+.099), Mike Trout (+.087).
Yeah, "huge" was too strong.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,272
He tested positive in the offseason, so I think he was close to the end of the appeals process anyway.

Also this is a pretty unique situation, Cano expects to be back sooner than 80 games from his injury so the quicker he can start playing again and maybe salvage his season a bit, the better, so preferable to get the suspension going ASAP despite the definite loss of the $11M (which was probably gone anyway). Just a guess...
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
14,291
Boulder, CO
We can all make jokes about this and there are a ton of them. However, this is always a bad look on The Game. It still boggles my mind that anyone at that level making that kind of money puts themselves in a position to lose so much.

Very, very few are willing to Buster Douglas it: make the big money and then ‘who gives a fuck?’* If you sign a huge deal because juicing turned you from a 100 OPS guy who’s a nobody to a 125 OPS guy who’s an all star, it’s awful hard to a) stop juicing, b) go back to being a 100 (or worse, now that you’ve aged and adopted a hitting approach that requires a certain physical toolset you no longer possess) OPS guy, and c) just suffer the slings and arrows of a fan base that saw you get paid like a star but perform like a nobody and is rightfully pissed. Confirmation bias is real and most guys would find it harder to go legit than the corleone family.


* not implying buster was using, just referencing his (imho respectable, if true) decision to check out once he’d earned his millions and not care if some sports radio caller screamed about him tarnishing his legacy
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,429
Pittsburgh, PA
He tested positive in the offseason, so I think he was close to the end of the appeals process anyway.
I take this post as you thinking this was an innocent mistake. MLB needs more than just the diuretic test to suspend him, they need to convince an arbiter that there's other evidence to complement it.

Baseball's joint drug agreement stipulates that if the independent program administrator (IPA) actually believed Cano, he would have been cleared as a first-time offender in cases involving diuretics.

The IPA needed proof that Cano was using the drug as a masking agent.

The investigation revealed that Cano had clear intent to mask another illegal drug.

Cano was charged with a positive test, no different than if he were taking anabolic steroids.

“The presence of a diuretic or masking agent in a players’ urine specimen shall be treated as a positive result if the [IPA] determines the players intended to avoid detection of his use or another prohibited substance,’’ according to Section 3(F) of the Joint Drug Agreement.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/05/15/robinson-cano-ped-suspension/612791002/

I think it is hard to conclude this was an innocent mistake. That doesn't necessarily mean he was using in the past, but to conclude he wasn't using recently... I don't get it.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,575
Newton
Here’s the rest of the relevant quote:

"Let's just use this situation here. Robbie Cano's assistant was on the list for Biogenesis," Teixeira said Thursday, referring to the clinic at the center of Major League Baseball's 2013 PED scandal. "Now, of course, [he] had an assistant, you know, buy stuff for him. Alex Rodriguez got popped by Biogenesis and Melky [former Yankees outfielder Melky Cabrera] got popped. They were best friends. When someone gets lumped into that group, it's because there's evidence. There's a paper trail, there's a smoke trail."
As for how far back Cano was using, I remember thinking a little along the lines of Rough: that Cano appeared out of thin air at a time the team was stuck with Tony F’ing Womack at 2B. His emergence was a huge lift for the Yanks at a time when these teams‘ success was predicated on being stacked 1-9 with no easy outs.

And while I’m hesitant to throw stones, it’s a pretty simple fact: that 2009 Yankees team was loaded with guys who have since been busted for PEDs: ARod, Melky, Montero (whose star fetched a frontline starter), and, now, Cano. To Cashman’s credit, he kept none of these guys around a second longer than he had to.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Very, very few are willing to Buster Douglas it: make the big money and then ‘who gives a fuck?’* If you sign a huge deal because juicing turned you from a 100 OPS guy who’s a nobody to a 125 OPS guy who’s an all star, it’s awful hard to a) stop juicing, b) go back to being a 100 (or worse, now that you’ve aged and adopted a hitting approach that requires a certain physical toolset you no longer possess) OPS guy, and c) just suffer the slings and arrows of a fan base that saw you get paid like a star but perform like a nobody and is rightfully pissed. Confirmation bias is real and most guys would find it harder to go legit than the corleone family.


* not implying buster was using, just referencing his (imho respectable, if true) decision to check out once he’d earned his millions and not care if some sports radio caller screamed about him tarnishing his legacy
What legacy? He is and will always be known as the guy who beat Mike Tyson and nothing else.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,272
I take this post as you thinking this was an innocent mistake. MLB needs more than just the diuretic test to suspend him, they need to convince an arbiter that there's other evidence to complement it..
No, I was just answering the post before me.
 

cromulence

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2009
7,097
And while I’m hesitant to throw stones, it’s a pretty simple fact: that 2009 Yankees team was loaded with guys who have since been busted for PEDs: ARod, Melky, Montero (whose star fetched a frontline starter), and, now, Cano. To Cashman’s credit, he kept none of these guys around a second longer than he had to.
Not so hesitant that you couldn't take a second to look up when Jesus Montero made his debut. Also, it seems like a stretch to assume he juiced his whole life because he tested positive for greenies in 2016, when his career was collapsing around him.

Again, I'd really caution against spiking the football too much on this topic. Two can play this game.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,575
Newton
Not so hesitant that you couldn't take a second to look up when Jesus Montero made his debut. Also, it seems like a stretch to assume he juiced his whole life because he tested positive for greenies in 2016, when his career was collapsing around him.

Again, I'd really caution against spiking the football too much on this topic. Two can play this game.
Yes, that's right -- I had thought he showed up briefly on that team, I was off by more than a bit.

But two can play at this game as well: before his greenies suspension in 2016, Montero was suspended 50 games for his involvement in Biogenesis in 2013.
 

cromulence

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2009
7,097
Yes, that's right -- I had thought he showed up briefly on that team, I was off by more than a bit.

But two can play at this game as well: before his greenies suspension in 2016, Montero was suspended 50 games for his involvement in Biogenesis in 2013.
Fair enough, I forgot about that one. I'm still not sure what the point is - Montero juiced his way to prospect status, so all the championships Michael Pineda won in NY don't count?

Yes, it's clear that the A-Rod/Cano/Melky trio had a juicy corner of the clubhouse. I just think it's dangerous to start asterisking titles, if that's what you're trying to do.