At his age and his clear fragility, do medical professionals on here think this is it for Sale?
This sounds like the same thing or similar to what Wacha had in 14' and Degrom last year. Wacha was out 3 months IIRC. Degrom started the year on IL and didn't come back until August.
I'm not a medical expert but I doubt very much that it's career ending in any way.At his age and his clear fragility, do medical professionals on here think this is it for Sale?
My sentiments exactly.Sounds like he’s going to finish the season significantly under the 150 innings half the people here had him penciled in for
Hey, just more bad luck!Sounds like he’s going to finish the season significantly under the 150 innings half the people here had him penciled in for
The annoying part is that he actually had turned the corner performance-wise over the last 7-8 starts with a 2.40ish ERA in May/June.Goddamit. Not remotely surprised given his history, but was hoping against hope he might give us a full-ish season of solid performance.
I did, too. Unlike every year since 2019, he looked close to his old self for more than, I don't know, a few innings. Bummer.I really enjoyed watching CHRIS SALE make a cameo appearance. So much fun to watch.
Absolutely. Watching this once was MORE than enough. What a kick to the groin the last month has been.It's like last season never ended. Under .500, stupid plays, giving up way too many runs, waiting around for Sale and Story to come back from injury... it's a neverending loop.
It's like if Wile E. Coyote starred in Groundhog Day.
Dombro rushing that extension out was absurd when it happened, as I am pretty sure a bunch of us were saying then. His body was clearly breaking down in 2018. There was very little risk that he'd be completely healthy in 2019 and leave for big money somewhere else. Loads of us IIRC were willing to let him play out his walk year and re-sign him based on whether he got healthy in 2019. Dombro getting fired four months later seems related, although maybe the story has already been told? Can't remember. I like Sale, and still believe he can get healthy (can, not will) and add to his legacy. But the extension was either paying for past performances or an even less sane evaluation of his immediate future prospects.1.8 bWAR for $117.5M since the extension kicked in.
I'm gonna plagiarize that somedayIt's like if Wile E. Coyote starred in Groundhog Day.
The reasoning is what puzzles me. DD doesn't suck. I can usually reverse engineer some plausible rationale for just about any move made by non-shitty GMs and Mgrs. But of all Sox moves in the last several years, this is the most confounding.Dombro rushing that extension out was absurd when it happened, as I am pretty sure a bunch of us were saying then. His body was clearly breaking down in 2018. There was very little risk that he'd be completely healthy in 2019 and leave for big money somewhere else. Loads of us IIRC were willing to let him play out his walk year and re-sign him based on whether he got healthy in 2019. Dombro getting fired four months later seems related, although maybe the story has already been told? Can't remember. I like Sale, and still believe he can get healthy (can, not will) and add to his legacy. But the extension was either paying for past performances or an even less sane evaluation of his immediate future prospects.
Some possibilities:The reasoning is what puzzles me. DD doesn't suck. I can usually reverse engineer some plausible rationale for just about any move made by non-shitty GMs and Mgrs. But of all Sox moves in the last several years, this is the most confounding.
And then again the next day and the day after that and the day after that...I'm gonna plagiarize that someday
I’ll admit that I actually liked the move.The reasoning is what puzzles me. DD doesn't suck. I can usually reverse engineer some plausible rationale for just about any move made by non-shitty GMs and Mgrs. But of all Sox moves in the last several years, this is the most confounding.
If his medicals were totally clean, yeah, but when his elbow went in August, right before Dombro was booted, he gave a press conference where he said that the injury had just happened. That was ... treated with some skepticism.I’ll admit that I actually liked the move.
But agree or, as most, not, I would guess that the reasoning is that Sale had actually been durable to that point in his career. If he remained durable, he would get crazy expensive as a free agent. Sign him early, Sale takes a discount if he stays healthy, Sox get boned if he doesn’t. We know how it turned out, but I don’t think that there isn’t at least a plausible explanation if you squint.
Not sure how or why Dombrowski's job would have been in jeopardy less than six months after the conclusion of the best season in franchise history. I think the reason he extended Sale was pretty simple: Sale was in line for an extremely expensive free agent contract, so Dombrowski made him a competitive offer. An offer that, at the time, probably was a discount from full retail (top contract the following winter was Gerritt Cole 9/324). And Sale jumped on it.Some possibilities:
* ownership trying to undo the Lester debacle?
* Dombro trying to save his job with splashy fan service?
Some in-real-time perspective:
https://theathletic.com/713058/2018/12/14/buckley-heres-how-red-sox-should-prioritize-their-upcoming-slate-of-big-time-free-agents/
Dombro's falling out is pretty well documented, if you believe stories written at the time. The Sale extension fits right squarely in there with their reasons for moving on, which you could distill down to just wanting to run it back with a team against the evidence that said it was time to turn the page.Not sure how or why Dombrowski's job would have been in jeopardy less than six months after the conclusion of the best season in franchise history. I think the reason he extended Sale was pretty simple: Sale was in line for an extremely expensive free agent contract, so Dombrowski made him a competitive offer. An offer that, at the time, probably was a discount from full retail (top contract the following winter was Gerritt Cole 9/324). And Sale jumped on it.
Dombrowski was very much a "see what I want and go get it" GM, even if it might seem like the cost was a bit more than necessary. That's how he signed Price. That's how he came to trade for Sale and Kimbrel and others. Just about the only notable player he acquired via patiently waiting the player out to get a better deal was JDM. Of course, even that required a ridiculous number of opt-outs to get it done.
On its own for sure not career ending or anything close to that.I'm not a medical expert but I doubt very much that it's career ending in any way.
My question for the docs would be is this something that can be prevented (by usage or training) and is it something that can recur?
Yeah, there were some REALLY bad posts defending Sale's durability this offseason...Hey, just more bad luck!
What's more impressive is that this isn't even the worst contract from Dombrowski during that time.1.8 bWAR for $117.5M since the extension kicked in.
There were also some really bad posts that said he wasn't going to pitch this season because he's made of glass because of freak incidents not related to the actual pitching of a baseball.Yeah, there were some REALLY bad posts defending Sale's durability this offseason...
Sale has missed significant amounts of time over his career & has a violent motion. It's fair to be concerned about the health of his arm. Conflating arm concerns with a broken wrist from riding a bike & a broken finger from a batted ball is where one would lose me.
This take is the kindest I have seen in awhile. While I am convinced we won’t see Sale again this season, and continue to be frustrated by the futility of the contract, sometimes we lose sight of the human being who is struggling to achieve his goals and dealing with the setbacks day in day out. Fight on Sale!I feel fucking awful for Chris Sale. I know he's rich AF, but the dude worked so hard to get back out there. This sucks.
And to add on, being rich doesn't necessarily make life any easier... Consider all the rich and famous celebrities that commit suicide or use drugs until death because their fabulous lives are so unliveable. Life is hard.This take is the kindest I have seen in awhile. While I am convinced we won’t see Sale again this season, and continue to be frustrated by the futility of the contract, sometimes we lose sight of the human being who is struggling to achieve his goals and dealing with the setbacks day in day out. Fight on Sale!
I'm not sure how turning him into a reliever would make him more durable. Pitching fewer innings at a time but pitching more frequently is as stressful as pitching more innings at a time less frequently. We've seen pretty much every reliever on the roster this year spend some time unavailable with various ailments ranging from a stiff back to elbow surgery. I think all they can do is keep him in as good a shape as possible to pitch every fifth game and cross their fingers that something else doesn't happen.Upon returning would he be more durable thru the end of 2024 if we turned him into an elite reliever who could go 1-2 innings at a clip?
Forget the money, what would be the best way to keep him as a healthy and productive member of the team for the next 1 year and two months
You want to wait until he’s healthy first and only then cut him?Cut him as soon as he's healthy. It's over. Having him on the roster next season is a net negative. If I ever see DD in a bar, I'll be sure to dump a full cheap-ass pitcher of beer over his head, but I'll also scream "THANKS FOR 2018!" to soften the blow.
And to think people also questioned the Eovaldi deal at the same time. Would much rather that he was still here instead of this walking sports medicine ward. Oh, he's accountable? Yay! That really mattered the first few times we went through this, but it rings hollow more and more. It's great that you're so hard on yourself, Chris, but it's not winning any fucking games. Nobody on this team is drawing inspiration from you. Nobody on this team TALKS about you except the manager. Wouldn't be shocked if more than half the team just sees you as the loudmouth who always talks a big game but has rarely backed it up over the last four seasons. If they're going to pay someone to not play who used to be really good, go get Tim Lincecum. At least he'd be more enjoyable to hear from and the expectations would be set.
On here or twitter maybe. When healthy, Sale's an asset - he wants to pitch and if he has a flaw it's being too competitive.This take is the kindest I have seen in awhile.
I don’t get this post at all. Totally nonsensical. Where are you getting this stuff from Sale from? Is there any source that claims that Sale isn’t liked in that clubhouse? Everything we’ve ever heard about Sale with his teammates paints quite the opposite picture: he’s loved in that clubhouse, known for being a great teammate and I’m sure they are gutted for him. You act like they hate him and want him off the team.Cut him as soon as he's healthy. It's over. Having him on the roster next season is a net negative. If I ever see DD in a bar, I'll be sure to dump a full cheap-ass pitcher of beer over his head, but I'll also scream "THANKS FOR 2018!" to soften the blow.
And to think people also questioned the Eovaldi deal at the same time. Would much rather that he was still here instead of this walking sports medicine ward. Oh, he's accountable? Yay! That really mattered the first few times we went through this, but it rings hollow more and more. It's great that you're so hard on yourself, Chris, but it's not winning any fucking games. Nobody on this team is drawing inspiration from you. Nobody on this team TALKS about you except the manager. Wouldn't be shocked if more than half the team just sees you as the loudmouth who always talks a big game but has rarely backed it up over the last four seasons. If they're going to pay someone to not play who used to be really good, go get Tim Lincecum. At least he'd be more enjoyable to hear from and the expectations would be set.
Find me the last quote from a current player about Chris Sale. I dare you.I don’t get this post at all. Totally nonsensical. Where are you getting this stuff from Sale from? Is there any source that claims that Sale isn’t liked in that clubhouse? Everything we’ve ever heard about Sale with his teammates paints quite the opposite picture: he’s loved in that clubhouse, known for being a great teammate and I’m sure they are gutted for him. You act like they hate him and want him off the team.
Here’s a Kiké quote on Sale from earlier this season:Find me the last quote from a current player about Chris Sale. I dare you.
And I'm not saying he's universally disliked. But, for a moment, let's use common sense. There are 26 players on the roster not named Chris Sale when he's hurt, which has been most of the last four seasons. Why would they even take him into consideration? He's averaged less than 6 starts a year since 2018. Most of the time, he's been terrible. Why would any regular on that team give two shits about a guy who always looks like he needs to put on about 15 pounds of muscle and is constantly one pitch away from the IL?
You must be new here.You want to wait until he’s healthy first and only then cut him?