San Siro's Siren Call: 2015-16 UEFA Champions League

[Vinho Tinto]

How did Renato Sanches look tonight

He looked like he's 18 and competing against Vidal and Alonso. They're tough for anyone and he's not at that level. They forced him into making mistakes. I blame him for Vidal being all by his lonesome on Bayern's first goal. He got caught watching the ball and not his man. That one he should know better.

 

[Zomp]

We're still going to bid for him.

 

[sachmoney]

The draw is Friday? Rooting for an Atleti-Bayern final.

 

[The Price Is Wrong]

The Spanish teams both deserve a chance to reach the final. Hopefully they're not drawn against each other.

I'm not sure I agree. I'd rather see Atleti get two games' worth of chances at redemption for 2012. Since I believe they're the better side right now, that'd have lower chances of an upset.

My prefs of matchups:

1. Atleti-Real / Bayern-City
2. Atleti-City / Bayern-Real
3. Atleti-Bayern / City-Real

Also, I'm a bit curious why no Lewandowski for the Bayern match. I'm sure Pep had his reasons, but I'd be interested to know what they were.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

I'm not sure I agree. I'd rather see Atleti get two games' worth of chances at redemption for 2012. Since I believe they're the better side right now, that'd have lower chances of an upset.

Let's not over think this. Real just won in Nou Camp playing with 10 and knocked out Atletico last year in the CL quarters. Neither one of those two clubs is intimidated by the other. It won't matter if it's one or two games.

I'd rather not see them play in the semis. We get plenty of Madrid derbies as is. I could deal with Real-Bayern again, but I'd prefer Atletico-Bayern since they haven't played recently.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I am kind of rooting for an all Madrid semi to ensure the final is a true inter-league affair. A Madrid Derby final would make three out of four years (and four of nine) with same league teams playing their third or fourth game of the year in the final. I'd rather see it in the semis if it happens.

 

[trs]

I am kind of rooting for an all Madrid semi to ensure the final is a true inter-league affair. A Madrid Derby final would make three out of four years (and four of nine) with same league teams playing their third or fourth game of the year in the final. I'd rather see it in the semis if it happens.

True. However, given how frequently these teams play each other and have played each other recently, the chance that the game becomes a theatrical masterclass is quite high. However, as an Atletico supporter living in Madrid and trying to be as objective as possible, drawing Real would not be the end of the world. Real seem to have problems being consistently "up for" games this year. I'm also not terribly impressed with how they're formed under Zizou.

The conspiracy-seeking part of me is convinced that sticky fingers will create the following European-wide-interest matchups:

Real - Atleti (for all the reasons people have mentioned and also avoiding a CL final rematch)
City - Bayern gives you Pep versus his new team, easily promoted

Then the further conspiracy-seeker within me (and of course Sox fan) will see Real and Bayern pass to setup Pep versus Real.

Of course this is all silly, and the best teams will pass.

 

[Schnerres]

[QUOTE="The Price Is Wrong, post: 1649273, member: 72933"
Also, I'm a bit curious why no Lewandowski for the Bayern match. I'm sure Pep had his reasons, but I'd be interested to know what they were.[/QUOTE]

On a tactical note, he wanted to improve midfield and add a deep passing option, i would say. Somehow it didn´t show that much. In the first half, Bayern were attacking a lot through the wings and Müller just isn´t the danger for headers (although he isn´t bad) that Lewandowski is, so a different approach to crosses with Lewandowski in the middle might have worked better. But you can´t say the plan just failed, as they had tons of possession (about 70% was shown in-game) and Müller was there after a set piece and scored the 2nd goal that calmed everything down.
Even on the 1st goal, they passed the ball into the box, when Douglas Costa passed it deep to Lahm and he ran to the line to cross it in. You could see it in many buildups that they were passing, passing, passing even into the box, to find another man, but they didn´t look much for high crosses from the wing from Ribery or Costa.

Additionally, sport1.de reported that Lewandowski was part of a car crash on Monday/Tuesday (don´t remember exactly) this week in Munich, when he picked up his woman. Another car hit his car, he wasn´t injured, but he was in shock. He trained later that day, and the car had a damage of about 25.000 € (so not a small bump, but a car for 100.000€ can be expensive to repair).
There was nothing said that Pep said something about sitting him due to the crash, it wasn´t even a big story, but i read it after the game on their page and they wrote it could be part of his choice, which makes sense.
http://www.sport1.de/fussball/champions-league/2016/04/fc-bayern-muenchen-robert-lewandowski-bei-autounfall-unverletzt

 

[candylandriots]

I'm curious about how national rooting interests come into play in the Champions League. For example, will Germans support Bayern Munich, even if you're say, a Dortmund fan? Will Barcelona fans put national pride first and cheer for Real Madrid in a final vs. Manchester City?

 

[trs]

I'm curious about how national rooting interests come into play in the Champions League. For example, will Germans support Bayern Munich, even if you're say, a Dortmund fan? Will Barcelona fans put national pride first and cheer for Real Madrid in a final vs. Manchester City?

Given that many Barcelona fans will consider Real Madrid a team from another country, I doubt there will be much crossover. That, though, I think is rather particular to the Real/Barca paradigm. I've also found here that unless your team is playing, Spaniards tend not really to give a shit. Finding a non-Spain game on television during the World Cup, for example, was essentially impossible. I would think that many of the tvs that were showing the game last night in Catalunya will be rather dark from here on out.

No idea about the situation in Germany though.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I'm curious about how national rooting interests come into play in the Champions League. For example, will Germans support Bayern Munich, even if you're say, a Dortmund fan? Will Barcelona fans put national pride first and cheer for Real Madrid in a final vs. Manchester City?

Good question, though I think the post above is interesting that a Barcelonan may not feel the same sense of national pride. I seem to remember some sentiment in Barcelona about not wanting to see Real Madrid win for La Decima, but then they were playing another Spanish side. If there were international Club competitions for US sports, it's hard to imagine I could root for the Yankees or the Jets in any context. Maybe against a Russian or North Korean team or something.

From listening to the xm soccer channel when it broadcasts Drive Time from England, though, I do get the sense that some England fans root for other PL teams in the champions league, though that may be about keeping the fourth spot as much as any national pride.

 

[Schnerres]

No idea about the situation in Germany though.

You support the german team, you´re happy if they score, win or advance - but you´re alright as the "neutral observer" if they lose and drop out
Of course i see the advantage for the Bundesliga if Bayern and Dortmund win the international competitions (money, respect, international spots). So this is definitely a PLUS. And depending who they play, i would even say, i would root for them (Bayern vs. City is 50/50, as i would think it´s funny to see the hateable Bayern and the hateable Bayern lose to City, who basically fire their manager to pick up a bigger one and then beat him; but against Real and Atletico, which are full of dirty tricks or showmanship/Real, i would root for Bayern of course; as well as Dortmund to win the EL).
But as it is more a supporting from the brain, which says "you´re german, root for Dortmund vs. Shaktar" for example, and not a rooting from deep-down in the heart for your home-club or National Team, the brain will also switch it off pretty quickly, if, in this case, Dortmund would play poor and drop out to Shaktar.

But this is a feeling that has changed a lot over the years, at least for me. And i believe, even more for little kids. In my younger days (34 now), it was just possible to love or hate Bayern. Today, you could respect them and hope for them to advance, they are more likable. I had my Manchester United shirt (don´t tell anybody) with Cantona on the back and i really wanted them to win against Bayern in CL´99, even more, as Bayern beat my team Kaiserslautern in the quarterfinals 99. That final was funny as hell. Today, even if i like the german players at Arsenal or Leicester or whatever, I would root for the german teams in general. In 99, they had quite a few players who were very unlikable like Kahn, Basler, Matthäus, Effenberg and so on. Those guys were douchebags, although Kahn changed a bit since then.

Today, you walk around here (400km away from Munich and Dortmund) and you see kids with shirts from either Dortmund or Bayern or Team Germany. In my youth, you would have been kicked in the ass, if you wore a Bayern shirt, because everybody knew they were "something better". Players like Müller, Lahm, Neuer, or earlier guys like Giovane Elber, Pizarro or coach Jupp Heynches showed a much more down-to-earth or funny (Pizarro, Elber) behaviour, which is much more likable than the snobbishness of earlier days.

 

[teddykgb]

In a post that in general expresses a strong preference for the likability of players you reveal that you owned a Cantona shirt? (just having fun, interesting post)

 

[bosox4283]

Thanks to all for the congratulations. It was a thrill to beat Barcelona, and to do so at Vicente Calderon, especially since this year is the last at the stadium.

I have no preference in the draw -- I'll take any of the three teams.

 

[Zomp]

I remember when I went to London in 2008, Liverpool were playing Inter in the Champions League. We stopped at a pub for the second half and while there were only one or two people wearing Liverpool scarfs the whole bar was pulling for them. This surprised me as we stayed in what I considered Chelsea territory. I don't think the coefficient had anything to do with it (remember at this time the argument could have been made that 4 of the top 5 or 6 clubs in the world were from the Premier League) but i think there was a bit of national pride on the line.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

I can't imagine scenarios where many Portuguese fans would cheer their club's rivals on in Europe. Benfica played Porto in the cup final 10 days before their Champions League final vs Monaco. The ultras had a message wishing Monaco good luck prior to the match.

 

[doldmoose34]

City vs Real
Atletico vs Byern In semi.

 

[Schnerres]

That´s the draw i like the most.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Yeah, those are great matchups, although I would've been just as happy with the Spanish teams flipped. I see lots of goals in the MANC-Real matchup. Sagna has had a revelatory couple of seasons there IMHO, but CRon is on good form, Bale is formidable on the other wing, and if Pellegrini overcommits on the outsides, Modric and Benzema will have room to operate. Look for Kroos to have a big impact too. Going the other way, I also think that Real will have trouble coping with MANC's attack. Getting behind Marcelo is not very hard, so I expect City to attack there. If City don't have success breaking down the flanks, Aguero and KDB will get squeezed in the middle by Varane, Ramos, and Casemiro. Carvajal is a fairly stout defender, but he is prone to bad tackles. I'll guess 2-1 MANC in the first leg, and a 3-1 Real win in the Bernabeu putting Real through.

In the other matchup, I really don't know what to expect. I could see Costa breaking down Juanfran or the non-Godin CB, Vidal crashing through the middle, or Muller/Lewando poaching an early goal and changing the dynamic of the tie. But, it's foolish to expect Atleti to concede early, if ever. Bayern seems well-staffed to stifle Atleti's counters with Xabi's positional awareness and Thiago and Vidal's workrate. However, if Atleti can get past the MF, they should have good opportunities against that shaky backline. I'll venture out and say 1-0 to Atleti in the first leg, with a 2-1 win for Bayern in the return leg, putting Atleti through.

 

[bosox4283]

Godin will be out at least for the first leg of Bayern-Atletico. His absence will be a blow for Atletico, both offensively and defensively. It'll be interesting to see how Simeone adjusts. Gimenez, who is the 2nd/3rd CB depending on one's perspective, has missed the last six matches or so due to injury. Simeone may feel he's not in game shape, which means Savic and Lucas would be the starting CB team.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Yeah that's bad.

 

[bosox4283]

Ronaldo is out today vs. City.

 

[bosox4283]

Hey. I'm in Boston. Where's LTF watching the game?

 

[Vinho Tinto]

Ronaldo is out today vs. City.

And James is still on the bench.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

And James is still on the bench.

Isco too.

Pretty cagey match so far. City is doing a nice job pressing up the pitch but haven't been able to convert turnovers into chances.

 

[The Price Is Wrong]

The Fernands are winning the battle vs Casemiro and Modric, and De Bruyne has looked dangerous, but nobody else is really standing out to me yet. The real question is, how is Kompany's fitness and form? I have to imagine he'll be the first sub.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

This match started out cagey but has now made the transition to simply boring.

 

[CodPiece XL]

Well that was pretty boring. Ramos has 21 red cards for Real Madrid?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Well that was pretty boring. Ramos has 21 red cards for Real Madrid?

I don't know how he escaped a yellow for that ankle crunching studs tackle around the 26 minute mark. Ramos is a stylish player with the ball but a serious hacker as well.

 

[teddykgb]

Not pleasing for the neutral but City were slightly better there. Silva injury caused a formation change that hasn't helped. Madrid would clearly be OK with a 0-0 but they can always score from nothing anyway.

Unfortunately the Silva injury has pushed KDB out wide. He's at the heart of all of City's danger. I am a big fan of Ihenacho but a 4-4-2 is very risky from Pellegrini

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Not pleasing for the neutral but City were slightly better there. Silva injury caused a formation change that hasn't helped. Madrid would clearly be OK with a 0-0 but they can always score from nothing anyway.

Unfortunately the Silva injury has pushed KDB out wide. He's at the heart of all of City's danger. I am a big fan of Ihenacho but a 4-4-2 is very risky from Pellegrini

It seemed like an odd choice with Sterling also on the bench.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

This match badly needs a goal. Most likely off a set piece or defensive error.

 

[teddykgb]

This match badly needs a goal. Most likely off a set piece or defensive error.

Or a Madeid dive in the box. Casemiro is on form.

Sterling I just don't think is ready to play 50-60 minutes.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Hart has really saved City's bacon although Pepe looked offside on his point blank chance.

 

[Schnerres]

Hart had two big saves after two set pieces. Real had the better chances, 5minutes to go.

 

[CodPiece XL]

At least the last 15 mins were entertaining.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

0-0. Both sides set up with the idea that this would be an OK result and that's the result they got. City seemed slightly better in a dull first half, Madrid clearly better in a livelier second half.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Joe Hart for MOTM for City. Maybe the Fernands with a nod too. Both sides pleased with the results, although I would've thought MANC would go for it a bit more with CRon being out.

 

[bosox4283]

Hart was good, for sure, and deserves credit for making the saves he did. But I think Real Madrid was just off, too. They didn't take advantages of the chances and weren't good enough at finishing their attacks. Credit to Hart for being in the right place and credit to City's defense for being tough, but I thought Madrid had a poor night all things considered.

 

[bosox4283]

Atletico is without a few top players. Godin is out with injury, as is Carrasco. As a result, Simeone is playing with two more defensive midfielders in Gabi and Augusto, while Carrasco would be a bit more offensive oriented.

Edit: The young and talented midfielder, Oliver, who started the year ahead of Carrasco on the depth chart, has fallen from grace and rarely sees the pitch. Well, Carrasco goes down and Oliver gets the call to dress for today. But, wait, now Oliver's sick with a fever and won't be on the bench. The poor kid can't catch a break.

 

[Schnerres]

No Müller, no Ribery. If the result isn´t in Bayern´s favour, they should be coming in after the break.
Boateng was training regularly, so i think he could play in the 2nd leg.
Martinez+Alaba as CBs with Lahm and Bernat on the wing means speed and technical skills, but there´s nobody who is 190cm+ (Javi Martinez is the tallest Bayern player at 190cm, although i don´t know if he really is that tall) and regularly wins each header. I fear set pieces from Atletico.

So far Atletico with a lot of pressure. Surprise, surprise.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Atleti are looking pretty lively in the early going.

 

[Schnerres]

1-0, Saul.
Perfect dribbling against three players and Alaba was just watching passively 10m away from goal.
Bad, bad, bad defending from Bayern and a superb solo from Saul. Beautiful goal.

Bayern with a reaction, saved to a corner.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Saul!

 

[Schnerres]

Bayern with lots of mistakes from easy passes when Atletico is pressing.
If Bayern gets through to Atletico´s half, there are few situations where Bayern has a one-on-one duel, because Atletico is falling back and doubling.
Felipe Luis is someone who should be aimed for attacks.

Thiago is just the wrong player tonight, IMO, against the tough competition from Atletico. He just pales compared to Vidal and Alonso in the physical department and if he doesn´t make his passes he should be off.

A lot of flopping/non-calls on both sides so far.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Vidal is a disgrace

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Ribery looks like he's thinking about how to murder the three women he has tied up in his basement.

 

[sachmoney]

Was there reasoning given as to why Muller isn't playing?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Dropping Muller and Ribery is looking like a mistake. Pep is probably thinking mainly in terms of tactics but you need fighters against Atleti.

 

[sachmoney]

Forget fighting. I understand what Pep may be trying to do in trying to create space with Costa and Coman. I just feel like it's a matter of him trying to match wits with Simeone and not necessarily putting out his best XI. Even with tight spaces, Muller is a guy that finds ways to get into the right place at the right time. After Neuer and Lahm, he'd be on the first name on the team sheet for me. He's a big player who rises to the occasion. This just seems like Pep overthinking and trying to beat Atleti himself rather than letting his best players do it.

I'm a huge Muller homer though.