It’s definitely much deeper.
It’s definitely much deeper.
For sure. And between nagging injuries and rest days (and covid positives), having more depth probably keeps a better flow and prevents unnecessary, demotivating 3-game losing streaks. Not that playoff seeding is everything, but it would be nice to win more of those "JT got the night off with a sore hamstring" games.It’s definitely much deeper.
He even missed Dunn on that.For sure. And between nagging injuries and rest days (and covid positives), having more depth probably keeps a better flow and prevents unnecessary, demotivating 3-game losing streaks. Not that playoff seeding is everything, but it would be nice to win more of those "JT got the night off with a sore hamstring" games.
Speaking of Covid positives......one thing to keep in mind is that Schroeder is an anti-vaxxer and was the only Laker still unvaccinated at the end of the season.For sure. And between nagging injuries and rest days (and covid positives), having more depth probably keeps a better flow and prevents unnecessary, demotivating 3-game losing streaks.
That's 3 below average shooters with Tatum and Brown. Schroeder is a guy who's better with the ball in his hands. I think PP or Nesmith are better fits as that unit needs shooters to spread the floor.Won’t they both start to begin the year?
If healthy I would think Schroder/Smart/Brown/Tatum/TL
Nesmith is going to play over Richardson? As of right now he doesn’t even have rotation minites how is he going to start?That's 3 below average shooters with Tatum and Brown. Schroeder is a guy who's better with the ball in his hands. I think PP or Nesmith are better fits as that unit needs shooters to spread the floor.
OofSpeaking of Covid positives......one thing to keep in mind is that Schroeder is an anti-vaxxer and was the only Laker still unvaccinated at the end of the season.
Don't have to have the best guys start to have the most effective unit. Just my opinion man.Nesmith is going to play over Richardson? As of right now he doesn’t even have rotation minites how is he going to start?
wholeheartedly agree, the best 5 start is a mind-numbingly stupid approach to rotation constructionDon't have to have the best guys start to have the most effective unit. Just my opinion man.
Not psyched to hear that. But at this point, we have to get used to guys missing a game or two waiting for negative tests whether everyone has been vaccinated or not. Guys will miss time time even if everyone in metro Boston were vaxed.Speaking of Covid positives......one thing to keep in mind is that Schroeder is an anti-vaxxer and was the only Laker still unvaccinated at the end of the season.
I’m not talking about starting.....I’m talking about playing. Where do you see Nesmith fitting into the guard rotation of Smart/Pritchard/Schroeder/Richardson? This doesn’t even account for Jaylen or even Romeo.Don't have to have the best guys start to have the most effective unit. Just my opinion man.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.This would be most excellent, especially as it seems both Schoeder and Irving hate each other. Kyrie has owned him over 16 games with 27.3 points, 6.2 assists, and 3.4 rebounds in 16 games. Schroder has averaged 12.8 points, 4.6 assists, and 2.3 rebounds in those 16 games.
I've only seen Schroder play a whole game a few times, but this is my read on him. Good not a great shooter. He's excellent at breaking down his man and driving to the basket and you can probably pencil him in for 15-20 ppg in 30 min. On the other end, I've seen him make a few athletic plays but what's the board's take on his defense? (Obviously, Kyrie torched him like he does everyone, though)
That's kind of odd, those four are primarily the Celtic ballhandlers, right? Nesmith has decent length/strength and will play a different role on this team. With a full roster, he'll get limited rotational minutes to start the season. I mean its kind of fruitless to figure out minutes/rotations now, but there will be injuries, COVID variants, rest days, load mgmt, etcI’m not talking about starting.....I’m talking about playing. Where do you see Nesmith fitting into the guard rotation of Smart/Pritchard/Schroeder/Richardson? This doesn’t even account for Jaylen or even Romeo.
Count the available minutes for yourself. With Schroder, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Richardson all probably getting between 28 and 35 minutes, that leaves about 30 non-big minutes for Pritchard, Nesmith, RL, and G Williams. Not impossible that he'll leapfrog Pritchard, but I doubt it given how much more reliable Pritchard has been.That's kind of odd, those four are primarily the Celtic ballhandlers, right? Nesmith has decent length/strength and will play a different role on this team. With a full roster, he'll get limited rotational minutes to start the season. I mean its kind of fruitless to figure out minutes/rotations now, but there will be injuries, COVID variants, rest days, load mgmt, etc
Minutes/experience/shots will lead to more confidence and better shooting from AN (like his rookie year). He was extremely raw last fall, he'll benefit from his first healthy offseason, Summer League and preseason. Celtics need his 3pt potential to turn into a reality, so he'll get a chance. As the long NBA season progresses his role/minutes will increase, sheerly out of attrition. I'd expect him to be a rotational player by the playoffs
I'd be shocked if he started DAY1 this season BUT wouldn't be surprised if you see him start during the course of the season. The Jays will get a lot of attention/double teams, surrounding them with plus 3pt shooting is kind of a no-brainer. So it's not difficult to understand why people want to see more of Nesmith or Pritchard
Count the available minutes for yourself. With Schroder, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Richardson all probably getting between 28 and 35 minutes, that leaves about 30 non-big minutes for Pritchard, Nesmith, RL, and G Williams. Not impossible that he'll leapfrog Pritchard, but I doubt it given how much more reliable Pritchard has been.
I wonder if there is a plan to spread minutes around much more this season after a season and a half of no rest no practice wore some guys down. Maybe not though - next season will have regular spacing, no?Count the available minutes for yourself. With Schroder, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Richardson all probably getting between 28 and 35 minutes, that leaves about 30 non-big minutes for Pritchard, Nesmith, RL, and G Williams. Not impossible that he'll leapfrog Pritchard, but I doubt it given how much more reliable Pritchard has been.
I think, but it is still a short off season.I wonder if there is a plan to spread minutes around much more this season after a season and a half of no rest no practice wore some guys down. Maybe not though - next season will have regular spacing, no?
Fair enough! No argument from me.Sure, but there's ALWAYS some rotation player injured. The minute breakdown charts are nice but they are never very accurate.
And this is the C's. Expecting even normal health is LOL.
Seems to me that having Al start alongside the Jays makes more sense. His outside shooting and ability to set great screens -- either rolling to hoop or picking/popping -- seems like the better complement for the Jays. Plus it opens up the lane a lot more for the Jays to drive.Won’t they both start to begin the year?
If healthy I would think Schroder/Smart/Brown/Tatum/TL
Some of the Spurs teams that Udoka coached with spread out the minutes.I wonder if there is a plan to spread minutes around much more this season after a season and a half of no rest no practice wore some guys down. Maybe not though - next season will have regular spacing, no?
If you can't play Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown at the 4, you lose a ton of the value of having Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown.I'd guess Schroder is in the 25ish minutes a game area, and I'd like it if he was the sixth man/primary creator of the bench.
Who plays how much among PP, Romeo, Nesmith and to a lesser degree Richardson is about matchup and how they are playing. It's great that they are going into this year with some legit veteran depth and (I believe) they will also allow the younger players to prove they should get minutes. It's a good balance.
The most interesting question for me is whether they plan to use a lot of smaller lineups with Jaylen at the 4, plan on Parker being a regular rotation guy, or something else at the backup 4.
I don't think doing the math on per game minutes works, because coaches are a lot more tactical about their player use than they were in the past. It's not like the days when you could pencil in Iverson for 40 minutes/game for 75+ games a year. A lot of individual MPG are going to appear inflated because of how they are used/rested, etc. Schroder (for example) played 61 of 72 games last year.Count the available minutes for yourself. With Schroder, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and Richardson all probably getting between 28 and 35 minutes, that leaves about 30 non-big minutes for Pritchard, Nesmith, RL, and G Williams. Not impossible that he'll leapfrog Pritchard, but I doubt it given how much more reliable Pritchard has been.
There will be second unit minites available whether it be a more traditional lineup w Grant at the 4 or smallball with Romeo there. We could also go big at times with Horford paired with TL or Kanter in spots. Udoka is going to have a shit ton of options which sometimes isn’t a good thing as players need to be comfortable in their roles to develop continuity......plus you have veterans in contract years along with young players whose rookie deals are up soon. He has his work cut out for him for sure.Tatum to me plays primarily maybe even solely 4. Brown will play some too—no question. What I was asking is whether anyone else plays meaningful minutes there or not
I think the question was if Nesmith would start, wasn't it? I could totally see him accumulating 1000 minutes over the course of the season, and I would be excited to see that given the freakish shots he was taking and making with ease last night. But starting more than 10-20 games seems very unlikely to me.I don't think doing the math on per game minutes works, because coaches are a lot more tactical about their player use than they were in the past. It's not like the days when you could pencil in Iverson for 40 minutes/game for 75+ games a year. A lot of individual MPG are going to appear inflated because of how they are used/rested, etc. Schroder (for example) played 61 of 72 games last year.
In terms of total minutes you can expect something more like
Tatum and Brown 2400
Schroder and Richardson 2200
Smart 2000
Across four positions you still have ~4500 minutes to account for.
I could see the best two guys from the bench getting 1000-1500, possibly more if they really break out (coming at the expense of Schroder/Richardson). The rest of the minutes will just be garbage time, divided as they usually are.
That's what I'm interested to see---do they envision Horford at 4 in a material way? Is that only reactive (against a Philly-like setup) or is it proactive too? Not sure. Grant, to me, was likely charged this summer with proving he can be a playable 4/stretch big. If he can give 10-15 minutes credibly that way it helps a lot and reduces pressure on Brown (in particular) to play bigs on D.There will be second unit minites available whether it be a more traditional lineup w Grant at the 4 or smallball with Romeo there. We could also go big at times with Horford paired with TL or Kanter in spots. Udoka is going to have a shit ton of options which sometimes isn’t a good thing as players need to be comfortable in their roles to develop continuity......plus you have veterans in contract years along with young players whose rookie deals are up soon. He has his work cut out for him for sure.
There's no way? Schroder definitely should be starting over Smart. If Udoka empowers Smart to be a "facilitator" the only thing he'll facilitate is more shots for himself. Let Smart be the defensive energy guy coming off the bench.Sorry Bill, but there's no way Schroeder sits ahead of Smart on that list. And I say that as someone who likes the signing and isn't a Smart fanboy.
Why not start both? Their size/matchups complement each other as they would with a Pritchard/JRich second unit. It seems so awkward to me to play the majority of minites against opponents starters with Smart/JRich while going small off the bench with Schroeder/Pritchard. The other thing is that this year more than ever we kinda blend the traditional 1-2-3 positions together with Jaylen and JRich pure 2/3 while Smart and Langford can defend 3 or 4 positions. So much flexibility along with so many logical pairings. It’s exciting.There's no way? Schroder definitely should be starting over Smart. If Udoka empowers Smart to be a "facilitator" the only thing he'll facilitate is more shots for himself. Let Smart be the defensive energy guy coming off the bench.
I cannot envision a scenario where Smart is sent to the bench, either in a contract year or after signing a rich new deal, in favor of one of our two stopgap one-year contract guys JRich or Schroeder. I like him as a nice combo guard with Pritchard on the second unit but I don’t ever want to see him as our starting PG which takes away his strengths defensively while exposing his weaknesses offensively. I know we discuss this a lot but it still it’s not logical to me as to why this would be his most effective use.....especially now that we have someone to fulfill that role. Even though JRich has always been a starting 2/3 in this league he’s a contract year guy who came here via trade......he needs to adapt his role to our needs, not us adapt our rotation to his.I can see Smart's energy and intensity being utilized in the 6th man role and end of game close outs. IMO the the rotation is still in flux until PBS and Coach U figure out chemistry and fit.
You'll definitely see Tatum as the second tallest guy on the floor a lot and occasionally Brown. I don't think you'll see Tatum as the tallest guy on the floor very often.If you can't play Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown at the 4, you lose a ton of the value of having Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown.
While I share your concerns (and HRBs), I want to remind everyone that contract year MaMo was every bit the root cause as contract year Scary Terry. At least PBS has seen it before and probably doesn't want to get burned by that again.Part of me wants to see a Schroder/TimeLord combo in the 2nd unit. Dennis can get around the floor and feed TL at the rim.
HRB's warning is fair. If DS equates POINTZ with PAY then we'll see Contract year Rozier
They have basically the same assist statistics & Schroder shoots more & turns the ball over more, so this seems off.There's no way? Schroder definitely should be starting over Smart. If Udoka empowers Smart to be a "facilitator" the only thing he'll facilitate is more shots for himself. Let Smart be the defensive energy guy coming off the bench.
I'm glad to learn that the Celtics are done with the small ball experiment with Grant Williams at the 5.You'll definitely see Tatum as the second tallest guy on the floor a lot and occasionally Brown. I don't think you'll see Tatum as the tallest guy on the floor very often.
Using numbers like this indicate they are similar players.....which couldn’t be further from the truth. Schroeder can get to his spots in the halfcourt with his dribble and deliver the ball effectively against pressure as he’s a threat to blow by. Smart isn’t that threat so defenders can play up on him further from the basket to slow down our initiation of the offense. We saw this at the end of last year when he was forced to play the 1. Our offense began with 15 on the clock often times with the ball in Tatum’s hands in iso 35 feet from the basket. I don’t anticipate this occuring nearly as much this year.They have basically the same assist statistics & Schroder shoots more & turns the ball over more, so this seems off.
Last season, Schroder/Smart:
Apg 5.8/5.7
Ap36 6.5/6.2
Ast% 26.9/23.6
Usg 22.9/18.4
Fga36 14.0/11.6
Tov% 15.8/14.2
Yeah, sorry wasn't trying to indicate similarity - just showing the premise of the post, which seemed to be that Smart is a selfish chucker, wasn't really accurate.Using numbers like this indicate they are similar players.....which couldn’t be further from the truth. Schroeder can get to his spots in the halfcourt with his dribble and deliver the ball effectively against pressure as he’s a threat to blow by. Smart isn’t that threat so defenders can play up on him further from the basket to slow down our initiation of the offense. We saw this at the end of last year when he was forced to play the 1. Our offense began with 15 on the clock often times with the ball in Tatum’s hands in iso 35 feet from the basket. I don’t anticipate this occuring nearly as much this year.
Ha! You know what I mean.I'm glad to learn that the Celtics are done with the small ball experiment with Grant Williams at the 5.
Yeah I’ve never seen Smart as a wild chucker although he has his moments of poor shot selections like many players. I feel their skills can be used to complement the rotation especially defensively as Smart’s lockdown wing defense isn’t wasted picking up 94 feet as it would if he were out there with mostly JRich. Allowing The Jays to not have to defend opponents best wing scorers in iso will aid them by conserving energy for the offensive side of the ball.Yeah, sorry wasn't trying to indicate similarity - just showing the premise of the post, which seemed to be that Smart is a selfish chucker, wasn't really accurate.
I like all the depth & options they've created while remaining flexible.
The case for Nesmith playing, even starting, depends on his spot up shooting. If he can knock down open threes as well as or better than Pritchard (thus better than the other competition), then there is a case for getting him minutes next to the Jays. He's obviously not proven that yet, but that would be the argument.I’m not talking about starting.....I’m talking about playing. Where do you see Nesmith fitting into the guard rotation of Smart/Pritchard/Schroeder/Richardson? This doesn’t even account for Jaylen or even Romeo.
Indeed. It's great that PBS created all this flexibility (expirings to get Beal/other) but it does come with its downside. PBS has to be more aware of those pitfalls than most after Ky-Hex YearWhile I share your concerns (and HRBs), I want to remind everyone that contract year MaMo was every bit the root cause as contract year Scary Terry. At least PBS has seen it before and probably doesn't want to get burned by that again.
For this team, I want Schroder starting and Smart coming off the bench. If Smart starts, you can guarantee that he'll revert back to shooting too many 3's and becoming a black hole for stretches. As Jay King says, Schroder should be taking a lot of his shots around the basket especially being that he's going to be playing next to two stars in Tatum and Brown. That is what they need the most is guys who can get to the rim for some easy baskets to take some pressure off of JT/JB.They have basically the same assist statistics & Schroder shoots more & turns the ball over more, so this seems off.
Last season, Schroder/Smart:
Apg 5.8/5.7
Ap36 6.5/6.2
Ast% 26.9/23.6
Usg 22.9/18.4
Fga36 14.0/11.6
Tov% 15.8/14.2
Pretty much this. He doesn't have anywhere close to Kemba's gravity from 3, but they weren't getting tons out of that anyway.So the Celtics replaced most of Kemba’s production for 1/5th the salary, with a slightly less efficient scorer, who is less of a liability on defensive. He won’t have to load manage, either.