Funny enough this started because Papelbn was yelling at Harper for not running out a ground ball.twibnotes said:
September 2015 game thread
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
I think he was just a plain moron when he pitched for us. Took too much time between pitches but I don't think he ever showed this kind of (roid?) rage. One of Tito's best lines about him, I think when he was on the cover of SI, was he wasn't sure Paps knew how to read.Wingack said:
Which itself was due to Harper calling Papelbon out to the media the day before.canderson said:
Not an excuse, but there is doucheness galore in the Nats dugout.
Indeed. It starts from the manager. He is the worst in baseball in every aspect (dealing with players, on-field decisions, etc.).Average Reds said:
Remember how "toxic" the Sox clubhouse supposedly was during the 2011 collapse? The Nats collapse since the end of July hasn't been as dramatic standings-wise but is easily 10X more "toxic" and far more public to boot. Just goes to show (again) how good Tito was at keeping things in-house. And how shitty Matt Williams is at every aspect of his job.
Since we are all piling on Papelbon here, it's worth sharing this piece from Fox which polls a ton of players and ex-players – none of whom fully defend Harper here:
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/jonathan-papelbon-bryce-harper-fight-current-ex-players-support-pitcher-long-time-coming-092715
It's a good piece – the long and the short of which is that Paps may be a jerk but in this instance most players think he was doing the right thing.
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/jonathan-papelbon-bryce-harper-fight-current-ex-players-support-pitcher-long-time-coming-092715
It's a good piece – the long and the short of which is that Paps may be a jerk but in this instance most players think he was doing the right thing.
If Harper played in NY or Boston he would be lauded for his fiery attitude and passion.
I'd trade anybody in this organization for Harper without any regret.
I'd trade anybody in this organization for Harper without any regret.
Hitting and choking takes it too far. If you are a veteran player and supposedly wise, say what you have to say, and if the other guy is a hothead, walk away. That is what a mature person does.
To call Harper out yeah, but not to attack him physically.rembrat said:
Harper has started the whole thing anyway, as mentioned upthread. I won't be totally shocked if he somehow tries to force Natstown to trade him this offseason.
With the way Natstown is being run lately, I wouldn't be shocked if they actually do trade him.
canderson said:
Even if you concede that Harper deserved to be called out for his lack of hustle on a play, is the right guy for that job a relief pitcher? Let alone a closer who typically isn't dressed and in the dugout/bullpen until the middle of the game? Let alone a closer who doesn't exactly comport to the "play the game the right way" model himself?
Wonder if Papelbon would have had the stones to call out a certain former teammate who also has a rep for not "hustling" down the line on a routine pop-up or ground ball? Or is he only interested in policing the game's young "punks"?
Wonder if Papelbon would have had the stones to call out a certain former teammate who also has a rep for not "hustling" down the line on a routine pop-up or ground ball? Or is he only interested in policing the game's young "punks"?
rembrat said:
So basically, unwritten code, blahblahblah, do things the right way, blahblahblah, respect that game, blahblahblah. Same old boring archaic bullshit surrounding every stupid dust-up on a baseball field.
I don't get the "Harper deserved to be called out" line of thinking. Harper made it to first base. Had the ball been dropped, he would have been safe. What more do they want from him?
It takes a lot of balls to call someone out for driving without a seat belt when you're drunkenly veering across the median with your lights off.
It takes a lot of balls to call someone out for driving without a seat belt when you're drunkenly veering across the median with your lights off.
Harper is the best player in the league and has been on the team for four years. He had every right to call out a moron reliever who has been there for 15 minutes for starting a pointless beanball war. That's a much better example of leadership than Papelbon strangling him over a popup he would have beaten out.
I'm all for veterans trying to exercise some leadership, but you could list a hundred things that the Nats have to do better before you got to "Harper not running full speed on a routine fly ball".
If you're working in a crappy office that has failed to achieve most of your organization's goal, you don't make it better by yelling at the best employee for leaving his desk five minutes early.
If you're working in a crappy office that has failed to achieve most of your organization's goal, you don't make it better by yelling at the best employee for leaving his desk five minutes early.
This thread is all sorts of amusing to me ...
It's no secret that Bryce Harper is an entitled brat. He was that way in the minors as an 18 year old kid hitting bombs/blowing kisses at the pitcher while he rounded the bases (hell, we had a thread about that at the time) and he's still that way as a 22 year old calling out Papelbon for hitting Machado because he thinks he might get hit in retaliation. His act can be annoying and I'm sure he rubs teammates the wrong way.
All that is true and yet his teammates still need to get over it and accept him. Because while he does not have a lot of false humility, he's damn close to being the best player in the game at age 22. If Papelbon thinks it should fall to him to straighten out Harper after all of two months with the team, he is sadly mistaken. Because having a confrontation in public with the best player on the team isn't a fight he can or should win.
Would not shock me to see Harper demand a trade this off-season.
It's no secret that Bryce Harper is an entitled brat. He was that way in the minors as an 18 year old kid hitting bombs/blowing kisses at the pitcher while he rounded the bases (hell, we had a thread about that at the time) and he's still that way as a 22 year old calling out Papelbon for hitting Machado because he thinks he might get hit in retaliation. His act can be annoying and I'm sure he rubs teammates the wrong way.
All that is true and yet his teammates still need to get over it and accept him. Because while he does not have a lot of false humility, he's damn close to being the best player in the game at age 22. If Papelbon thinks it should fall to him to straighten out Harper after all of two months with the team, he is sadly mistaken. Because having a confrontation in public with the best player on the team isn't a fight he can or should win.
Would not shock me to see Harper demand a trade this off-season.
Paps wouldn't have been so concerned about the integrity of the game if Harper hadn't called him out in the press the day before. This wasn't Paps taking it upon himself to do what must be done, this was Paps being passed off and looking for a fight.
Personally I'm more with Paps than Harper. But the confrontation should have happened pregame behind closed doors and hopefully without fists flying. Although I suspect the fists were going to fly no matter what.
Personally I'm more with Paps than Harper. But the confrontation should have happened pregame behind closed doors and hopefully without fists flying. Although I suspect the fists were going to fly no matter what.
Oil Can Dan said:
That is precisely what I am saying. If Paps wants to start a public fight, he's going to lose in more ways than one.
A smart player handles it in the clubhouse. But we all know Paps is not that player.
How exactly is Brycr Harper "entitled"? He works incredibly hard, hustles more than anyone, and is massively talented. That combination has made him, essentially, the best baseball player at every level he's ever played at, including the major leagues (and he accomplished that feat historically quickly). The word "entitlement" evokes the sense that he hasn't earned something. What the hell has Bryce Harper not earned at this point?
You can say he was too young to be as confident/cocky as he was, but who cares when that confidence/cockiness has been so thoroughly backed up at every level? At this point, it's hard to see any critique of Harper's attitude as anything more than "kids these days.."
You can say he was too young to be as confident/cocky as he was, but who cares when that confidence/cockiness has been so thoroughly backed up at every level? At this point, it's hard to see any critique of Harper's attitude as anything more than "kids these days.."
He didn't run out a ground ball when his hamstring was injured. Williams was killed for that if I remember correctly.
E5 Yaz said:
And if he deserved that again, that's for the manager to decide, not a blowhard closer.
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/jonathan-papelbon-bryce-harper-fight-current-ex-players-support-pitcher-long-time-coming-092715
BoSox Rule said:
It was a tight quad, the week earlier
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/72664620/nationals-manager-matt-williams-sits-bryce-harper-for-lack-of-hustle
Orel Miraculous said:
It's not terribly controversial to say that Harper has acted with a sense of entitlement from the day he stepped on the field in the minors. He's been benched in the majors for lack of hustle. He has a track record of sniping at teammates in the press and in the days before this incident he went to the media with this gem to kick things off with Papelbon:
To a great extent, that's almost the definition of entitled behavior - he's calling out Papelbon (in the third person, no less) and throwing himself a preemptive pity party on the assumption that there might be consequences that involve him. So while Pap is an idiot, I can understand why this ticked him off.
At the same time, if you are focusing on my description of Harper as entitled, you are missing the core of what I'm saying.
Harper is one of the best players in baseball at age 22. He doesn't have to show feigned respect for someone like Papelbon. And whether Papelbon's anger is justified or not, he needs to settle it in private. Because Papelbon failed to do that, he's an outcast and deservedly so.
1 hit, 1 BB, 13 K's. He only had 2 strikeouts through 4, but whiffed the side in the 5th, 6th, and 8th.3rd Degree said:
He's got 294 K's for the season. He's got one more start, but will probably only throw a few innings. Needs 6 more to become the first with 300 since Johnson and Schilling in 2002.
As will today's Cards-Pirates doubleheader, although the Cards win the other day drained some juice from it.
Part of me feels bad for the Astros and their fans, but I guess with all their young talent, their time is coming. Still it always hurts to have the sort of finish they're experiencing after how well they started the season.
Part of me feels bad for the Astros and their fans, but I guess with all their young talent, their time is coming. Still it always hurts to have the sort of finish they're experiencing after how well they started the season.
Remagellan said:
The fascinating thing about the Astros is that they've allowed the fewest runs in the AL and have the second best differential ... which really adds to the perception that, because of the pen's problems, they're losing a lot of close games.
Houston has won 6 of its last 10, so if they can finish well in Seattle and Arizona, they might have a chance of getting back in as a WC if one team dominates the Rangers-Angels series