Shane the Giant: 3/$12.35m, $4.75m gtd

[j44thor]

I hope the sentiment that Vereen is easily replaceable proves correct.  But I find it to be somewhat ironic that on a board that routinely dismisses conclusions based on small sample sizes that one of the bases for the conclusion in this case is that the Pats have been able to replace Redmond, Faulk and Woodhead, which is not exactly a large sample.
 
But here's to Helu signing with the Pats, succeeding and adding to the impression that Vereen's position is easily filled. 

 
Vereen's entire Patriots career is really a small sample size.  He only played 16 games this past year yet was much more productive in 2013 when he only appeared in 8 games.  Prior to that he was basically a spare part.  The question becomes why was he more productive in 2013 and my guess is that it was bore out of necessity since the outside WR were Dobson and KT to go along with an injured Gronk.  Only Edelman had more than 100 targets in 2013.
 
With Lafell/Edleman/Gronk (all +100 targets) and, to a lesser extent, Amendola/Wright in the fold Vereen saw his #'s per game drop dramatically.
 
Vereen was a useful piece but I don't think his rushing or rec #'s will be that hard to replace assuming the rest of the receiving core stays healthy (BIG IF).

 

[Mooch]

@RVacchianoNYDN Shane Vereen's deal: Three years, $12.35 million with $4.75 million guaranteed.
 
Wow, we couldn't match that?

 

[Leather]

@RVacchianoNYDN Shane Vereen's deal: Three years, $12.35 million with $4.75 million guaranteed.
 
Wow, we couldn't match that?

 
You gotta make cuts somewhere, sometimes around the margins.   It's not that they couldn't match it, it's that they think that money will be put to better use elsewhere, and they can replace most of his production on the cheap.

 

[Mooch]

You gotta make cuts somewhere, sometimes around the margins.   It's not that they couldn't match it, it's that they think that money will be put to better use elsewhere, and they can replace most of his production on the cheap.

I guess so but that's similar to the cap hit the Pats used to absorb for Kevin Faulk back a few years ago. Those guys aren't as fungible as you'd think.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Would Reggie Bush make sense for the Patriots?  I wonder what he will go for.

 

[rodderick]

I guess so but that's similar to the cap hit the Pats used to absorb for Kevin Faulk back a few years ago. Those guys aren't as fungible as you'd think.

 
Well, the Pats went from Faulk to Woodhead to Vereen without skipping a beat, so I'd imagine they have a pretty good idea of what it takes to succeed as a pass catching RB in this offense and they don't think shelling out 4m a year for Vereen is worth it.

 

[theapportioner]

@RVacchianoNYDN Shane Vereen's deal: Three years, $12.35 million with $4.75 million guaranteed.
 
Wow, we couldn't match that?

 
It's a timing issue also. By concentrating on Revis, the Patriots couldn't commit to anyone else significant, and even had to shed contracts. If they lost out on Revis but Vereen was still available, it's quite possible that they'd make a more competitive offer.

 

[Van Everyman]

Years from now, when people see him walk by, they're going to say, "There goes Shane Vereen, the greatest third down back there ever was."

 

[nattysez]

"RT @art_stapleton: Shane Vereen on leaving Patriots for Giants: "This is not a step down; if anything, it is a step up.""

Come on, Shane. Hope the context makes this more palatable.

 

[MainerInExile]

"RT @art_stapleton: Shane Vereen on leaving Patriots for Giants: "This is not a step down; if anything, it is a step up.""

Come on, Shane. Hope the context makes this more palatable.

 
"...in my bank account balance."

 

[Devizier]

 
"...in my bank account balance."

 
"... to the broadcasting booth."

 

[theapportioner]

"... to the broadcasting booth."

 
I bet he has his sights on Michael Strahan and his gap-toothed grin.

 

[nattysez]

Context didn't really help.
 

“It’s just a decision for my family,” Vereen told Giants.com. “At the end of the day, I wanted to make a decision that was right for us, right for them. This is a great organization. I was fortunate enough to play in New England with another great organization, and this is no slouch. This is not a step down, if anything it’s a step up. I’m looking forward to the opportunity and I’m enjoying being in New York.” 
 

This is hardly the end of the world, but you can speak highly of your new team without being negative about your prior one.  Revis is certainly doing that in his Jets PC.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I dunno, I don't think be meant it that way. He was just trying to compliment his new team and win over fans. No hard feelings here.

 

[timelysarcasm]

Really? He had to have been preparing for this moment in some capacity with an agent and that's what he says?
 
"If anything, it's a step up"? Context doesn't help it, either. Super lame, Shane.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Eh, I don't think it's a big deal. It's very likely some combination of what Ed suggests and a nod to the fact that maybe he will log time as more than just a 3rd down back-slash-Brady's fourth option. He's a good guy, I doubt he meant anything by it. Also, if it is this supposed slap at the Patriots, what could he possibly mean? It's the premiere franchise in all of sports right now and the reigning Super Bowl champ.

Most importantly, perhaps...WHO CARES?

 

[RG33]

I didn't read it as any sort of knock. To me, he was just talking about taking care of his family, playing for a great organization once again, and being in the #1 media market in the world. I don't think it needs to be seen as any sort of slight towards New England.

That link also didn't show the question. If the question was "well, doesn't this feel like taking a step back in your career leaving the Superbowl champs to play for the Giants?", that would make me a bit defensive too after having made the biggest business/financial decision in my 27 year old life.

 

[nighthob]

@RVacchianoNYDN Shane Vereen's deal: Three years, $12.35 million with $4.75 million guaranteed.
 
Wow, we couldn't match that?

It represented about a third of their available cap space, which is a lot to be tying up in the 3rd down RB position with defense being a much bigger area of need.

 

[soxhop411]

RT @ShaneVereen34 The last 4 years has been the best 4 years of my life and nothing will ever replace my time in New England.

 

[Corsi]

Shane Vereen ‏@ShaneVereen34  17s17 seconds ago
Lastly...This is a huge "step up" for me, my career and especially my family in regards to a great contract. Lets not make this a big deal

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah, that's a perfectly reasonable thing for him to say and people looking for reasons to get offended should look elsewhere. I like Vereen, he was a good player here and he'll be a good player for the Giants.
 
We really need to grow thicker skins around here. The constant ruffled feathers are getting annoying.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Yeah, that's a perfectly reasonable thing for him to say and people looking for reasons to get offended should look elsewhere. I like Vereen, he was a good player here and he'll be a good player for the Giants.
 
We really need to grow thicker skins around here. The constant ruffled feathers are getting annoying.

 
We're on the other side of this with Pablo Sandoval ("It was easy to move on from San Francisco".)
 
In both situations...who gives a shit? Maybe he likes the history behind the Giants (around about 40 years longer than the Patriots). Maybe he thinks the tradition is deeper. Maybe he thinks the Patriots fucking suck.
 
But more than likely, he said a few sentences that people want to be offended by because he is no longer with their favoritist team.
 
Seriously. Who gives a fuck?

 

[TheoShmeo]

I'm not remotely bothered.  We parse their words a lot more than they prepare them.  Plus, he's probably just a little bit hurt that the Pats didn't make more of an effort to sign him.
 
But as been said, who cares?  The man plays for the Giants.  He wont be relevant again until the Pats visit 16W Stadium some time this coming season. 

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Maybe we'll finally beat the Giants, since we're on an 0-3 streak against them including, um, playoffs.
 
(has there been another team in the BB era that we lost 3 straight games to?  I sure can't think of one.)
 
edit: I guess Broncos in 05, 05 playoffs, and 06.  And Colts in 05, 06, 06 playoffs.  And the Jets beat us both times in 2000 and the first time in 2001, which is technically in the BB era.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Nice interview w Vereen on MMQB

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/06/05/nfl-shane-vereen-new-york-giants/

 

[Super Nomario]

Funny thought exercise: how do we feel about the Vereen draft pick in hindsight?
 
Pros:
- Big contributor in the Super Bowl victory, with 11 catches 
- Third on the team in catches in 2013 and fourth in 2014
- Actually led the team in rushing attempts in 2014
- Only two career fumbles
 
Cons:
- Second-round pick at RB, not a premium position
- Barely used his first two seasons (less than 100 total touches)
- Missed half of his third season with injury
- Not even 1000 totals in four seasons
- Surprisingly not a big play threat - longest career run is 22 yards, though he does have a couple long TD catches
- Not a factor on special teams
 
Vereen was the 56th player taken in the 2011 draft ... and is 51st in AV. He was chosen just ahead of Torrey Smith and Randall Cobb, but also just ahead of Mikel LeShoure and someone named Jonas Mouton. He was probably an average pick, all in all.
 
Other funny 2011 draft note: perhaps the two worst picks in the draft were by the two best GMs, with Ted Thompson and Belichick whiffing on Derek Sherrod and Ras-I Dowling with back-to-back picks at 32 and 33. The two have combined for three career starts. Just kidding, the worst pick was Blaine Gabbert at 10 - one pick ahead of J.J. Watt.

 

[cournoyer]

I always enjoy these sorts of questions, and I think it bears a lot of resemblance to the Peavy/Iglesias trade hindsight thread. Iglesias will most likely have a career long after Peavy's career is over, and we've seen him starting to become a pretty solid shortstop. Peavy was average down the stretch, although pitched well in the postseason.
 
The Red Sox obviously won the World Series in 2013, and the Pats are Super Bowl champs, and Vereen was a huge part of that throughout the season. He  was productive in the Super Bowl, having 11 catches for 64 yards.  Not having him on this team would have obviously create a pretty huge butterfly effect and who knows how his replacement would have done 3 years after being drafted. At the end of the day, it's all about the rings for me.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

Tremendous pick. They would have absolutely lost the Super Bowl without him.

 

[tims4wins]

I agree with the average label. He missed a ton of games over his 4 years, but was productive when healthy and obviously a key contributor to #4

 

[5dice]

How can any modern era Patriots running back be fairly judged on what their "value" is relative to draft position or opposing player peers? This team's usage of backs is just different (I love it, for the record). If he had been drafted by a different team, maybe he piles up carries and yards while also catching a fair number of balls and he gains "value" in the eyes of fantasy players and traditionalists--we'll see what the Giants do. The role of "Patriots back on the field in passing situations", which for certain games is nearly every snap, is a key role in this offense and I can't complain about the way he played it as did Kevin Faulk, Super Bowl performance or not. Next up, White or Cadet will do the same.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

How can any modern era Patriots running back be fairly judged on what their "value" is relative to draft position or opposing player peers? This team's usage of backs is just different (I love it, for the record). If he had been drafted by a different team, maybe he piles up carries and yards while also catching a fair number of balls and he gains "value" in the eyes of fantasy players and traditionalists--we'll see what the Giants do. The role of "Patriots back on the field in passing situations", which for certain games is nearly every snap, is a key role in this offense and I can't complain about the way he played it as did Kevin Faulk, Super Bowl performance or not. Next up, White or Cadet will do the same.

Very true. One of my favorite parts of Patriot Reign was when they explained that their scouts never got "dinged" if a guy they were very high on (or low on), turned into a bust (or a star) for another team, because who knows how that guy would have played in the Patriots system.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

I think getting an average to slightly above average player with a late 2nd is a win.
 
(Without the injuries he's definitely above average imo.)

 

[Super Nomario]

How can any modern era Patriots running back be fairly judged on what their "value" is relative to draft position or opposing player peers? This team's usage of backs is just different (I love it, for the record). If he had been drafted by a different team, maybe he piles up carries and yards while also catching a fair number of balls and he gains "value" in the eyes of fantasy players and traditionalists--we'll see what the Giants do. The role of "Patriots back on the field in passing situations", which for certain games is nearly every snap, is a key role in this offense and I can't complain about the way he played it as did Kevin Faulk, Super Bowl performance or not. Next up, White or Cadet will do the same.

It's a key role, but Vereen only filled it for 1.5 seasons at the cost of a second-round pick. To me, that's what makes this question interesting. If Vereen had been in that role for 3-4 seasons, that's clearly good value, but they got almost nothing out of him until he came off IR-DTR in 2013.

 

[Shelterdog]

It's a key role, but Vereen only filled it for 1.5 seasons at the cost of a second-round pick. To me, that's what makes this question interesting. If Vereen had been in that role for 3-4 seasons, that's clearly good value, but they got almost nothing out of him until he came off IR-DTR in 2013.

 
What's funny is second round picks end up being good full time players about half the time and end up being negligible players about half the time--so Vereen is almost precisely mathematically average (a good player half the time, nothing half the time) in a world where you have more of a bimodal distribution. 

 

[TheoShmeo]

But SN, any player who was injured for a significant portion of his first four years would be graded an average pick, at best, if injuries count that much in the equation.
 
I view him as an excellent pick.  He had the skills to contribute to the offense and when healthy, did just that.  And I put a lot of emphasis on his performance last season, when he was one of Brady's core of trusted weapons all year.  To me, it's not just the production in the Super Bowl.  It's that he had become the kind of player who Tom looked to in the most important game of the year, and did so repeatedly.  The weapons in that game were relatively limited: Gronk, Edelman, LaFell, Amendola and Vereen.  And really no one else, except maybe Blount.  Vereen was the only RB who really mattered in that game; Blount had his moments but by the end of the game it was almost all Vereen. 
 
That Vereen had made himself into such a valued piece by the end of his Pats career says to me that he was an excellent pick.
 
I continue to think that his loss will be felt more than most Pats fans seem to think, and I continue to hope that I am WRONG.   

 

[pappymojo]

I think he is a very good player at a fairly low importance roster spot. Is there any offensive position where you would say 'I would rather have a very good receiving running back and an 'only okay' WR2 instead of an 'only okay' receiving running back and a very good WR2?'

Said another way if ranking the top 30 positions on the team in terms of importance including offense, defense and special teams where does the receiving running back land? Does it break the top 20?

Completely solid draft pick though. You cant complain about drafting a very good player at any position once you get past the first round. A good player is a good player.

 

[Seels]

The only players drafted later that I think are definitive better players are KJ Wright, Demarco Murray, Justin Houston, Randall Cobb, Jurrell Casey, and Richard Sherman. Justin Houston and Demarco Murray both seemed like better fits then and in hindsight, but I'm more than satisfied with Vereen. He had health issues but was dynamic when on the field. I think Vereen minus the health issues is a fairly close resemblance for Kevin Faulk, but he's such a mixed bag to expect. I don't think guys like Torrey Smith are better, and I'm not sure Smith would have been a good fit here anyway.
 
Vereen was a major reason the team was successful over the last few years, and was dynamite in clutch situations. His health was a concern but I have fond memories of him