Sliding Towards Safety
- Thread starter ifmanis5
- Start date
I cannot see the necessity of that last sentence, unless it is referring to making a play on someone other than the batter-runner.
And now the "Neighborhood Play" is reviewable.
Does that mean with the new rule about takeout slides being banned, that the pivot man HAS to touch the bag now?
Does that mean with the new rule about takeout slides being banned, that the pivot man HAS to touch the bag now?
Good, that was a late and idiotic / dangerous slide by Utley, and glad they have added clarity on how it will be enforced going forward...
It's amazing it took this long to fix the slide rule. I think this does a good job of covering the important aspects of an acceptable slide.
What I'm most interested in though is the neighborhood play change. If that means the pivot has to actually touch the base to get the out we might see some significant changes in double plays.
What I'm most interested in though is the neighborhood play change. If that means the pivot has to actually touch the base to get the out we might see some significant changes in double plays.
How this didn't already happen after Hollidays hit on Scutaro in the 2012 NLCS I'll never know. I guess if his leg had have been Poseyed like it should have then the rule change would have happened back then.
The previous rule wasn't broken. It just wasn't enforced properly. The new language and the announcement are a bit of theater to prep people for the change.
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/nl-east/new-york-mets/chase-utley-and-the-illegal-slide/
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/nl-east/new-york-mets/chase-utley-and-the-illegal-slide/
Yeah, the new rule seems to clarify how they wanted the old rule to be enforced, and how it should have been enforced. This is good, though. There's a line between aggressive base-running and cheap/dangerous shots, and this describes it better. Of course, combined with the tightening of the Neighborhood rule, we'll still see collisions, they'll just be closer to the bag.
Also, I really hope every replay of a takeout at second this year uses a clip from that Nitkowski video as a comparison. It's awesome.
Also, I really hope every replay of a takeout at second this year uses a clip from that Nitkowski video as a comparison. It's awesome.
Don't like the neighborhood play being reviewable. An infielder is going to get killed at 2nd base.
I wish there was some way to define a neighborhood play at 2nd.
I'm thinking of the times a fielder is running across the bag and trying to catch the toss and clear the bag. That's going to require some fancy footwork and/or make the fielder slow down enough to not twist his ankle. Also, pivoting over/around the bag. The rule forces the fielder to hang out there, where a legal slide can break his leg.
I'm guessing this impacts 10%-20% of plays around 2nd. It would be ironic if a rule designed to protect the fielder results in more, not less, injuries.
I wish there was some way to define a neighborhood play at 2nd.
I'm thinking of the times a fielder is running across the bag and trying to catch the toss and clear the bag. That's going to require some fancy footwork and/or make the fielder slow down enough to not twist his ankle. Also, pivoting over/around the bag. The rule forces the fielder to hang out there, where a legal slide can break his leg.
I'm guessing this impacts 10%-20% of plays around 2nd. It would be ironic if a rule designed to protect the fielder results in more, not less, injuries.
You know, if they start downsizing the "neighborhood" to the actual bag (eliminate the rule), then 1 of 2 things happens: infielder injuries go up as they meet runners at the bag, or they take the "safe" out only and get out of the way, reducing the number of double plays.
Is the latter result all that bad? Why is it good to allow fielders essentially to cheat (avoid actually touching 2d base) so as to get an extra out (by turning the phantom double play)? You want to get two outs on one play, earn it. If you can't turn two without putting yourself in harm's way, then just take one out. It's like the QB that tosses the ball out of bounds to avoid either a turnover or a vicious hit. Live for the next play.
Is the latter result all that bad? Why is it good to allow fielders essentially to cheat (avoid actually touching 2d base) so as to get an extra out (by turning the phantom double play)? You want to get two outs on one play, earn it. If you can't turn two without putting yourself in harm's way, then just take one out. It's like the QB that tosses the ball out of bounds to avoid either a turnover or a vicious hit. Live for the next play.
I understand what you're saying, but at what point does the infielder make that decision? He could be standing on the bag waiting for the (bad) throw. He could be running across the bag and need to decide in a split second whether or not he's going to get killed. In most cases, players being players, they'll take the chance because they don't want to look like pussies in front of their teammates.
Plus - I like the double play.
Yeah, I think making the neighborhood play reviewable (and thus enforced) is by far the bigger change here. The excuse for the neighborhood play up until now was it was necessary to protect players from takeout slides. Well, if there are no takeout slides, no excuse remains, so the practice stops making a farce of one of baseball's core rules (gotta step on the bag to get the force-out).
I think this will play out very much like how forceouts work at first base: the fielder will try to position their body to the side of the bag, and only just touch the bag with a trailing foot, while expecting (indeed, counting on) the runner to go for the bag but conscientiously avoid contact. Yes, you can overrun first base, so it's not an exact analogy, but if the fielder isn't in your path you really have no reason (well, no sporting reason) to try and take him out.
My complaint is actually that this doesn't go far enough. This doesn't sufficiently disincentivize takeout slides, because a runner trying to break up a double play knows that the downside (if his slide is ruled illegal) is a double play - exactly the same as if he had allowed the pivot man to go through with it untouched. He has no incremental downside to having his slide ruled an illegal takeout. If an ump feels that a takeout slide is not just illegal but intentionally so (e.g. Utley, or Scutaro above), the rules should suggest that he eject the runner from the game. Takeout slides are a practice that's about as reckless, dangerous and unnecessary as a hit batsman charging the mound; it should carry a similar penalty.
I believe they took it directly from the lyrics to Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Around the World".
I agree with this. Pitchers can be ejected (and suspended!) for hitting batters intentionally, so there's a precedent in the rules for an "intent" penalty over and above the routine penalty of a base.
Never thought of that. Great point. If it's late in the game the suspension is for 2 games.
(I always thought ejection infractions should allow the offended team to choose who gets ejected...like, "We choose to take Bogaerts out of the game for what Breslow just did...")
(I always thought ejection infractions should allow the offended team to choose who gets ejected...like, "We choose to take Bogaerts out of the game for what Breslow just did...")
Neighborhood play already being called.....
JUPITER, Fla. — A few days ago, shortstop Gavin Cecchini came across second base to turn what looked like a routine double play against the Nationals, except umpire Joe West ruled the runner safe at second, declaring that Cecchini had come off the bag early.
The Mets couldn’t believe it.
“It looked like a typical double play,” infield coach Tim Teufel was saying Sunday. “I’m not even sure he was off the bag early. But they’re going to call it now. And it’s going to be a huge deal.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/harper-mlb-watch-neighborhood-play-effect-article-1.2563251
JUPITER, Fla. — A few days ago, shortstop Gavin Cecchini came across second base to turn what looked like a routine double play against the Nationals, except umpire Joe West ruled the runner safe at second, declaring that Cecchini had come off the bag early.
The Mets couldn’t believe it.
“It looked like a typical double play,” infield coach Tim Teufel was saying Sunday. “I’m not even sure he was off the bag early. But they’re going to call it now. And it’s going to be a huge deal.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/harper-mlb-watch-neighborhood-play-effect-article-1.2563251
The rule made an appearance on opening day, Nick Markakis slides past the bag and the runner at first is called out to result in a double play. it's a reviewable play but the Braves manager didn't call for it.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25542161/watch-controversial-new-slide-rule-comes-up-big-in-nats-braves-game
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25542161/watch-controversial-new-slide-rule-comes-up-big-in-nats-braves-game