There’s plenty of discussion in the other Teoscar thread that provides plenty of good insight to why some feel he is…. And others feel he isn’t. Check it out.I question if he is as good as either one.
If you're going to question it, tell us why, and exactly what you're questioning. Do a little digging and show us some data to back it up. What do Turner or Duvall give the Sox that Teoscar doesn't? Show your work.I question if he is as good as either one.
The only advantage I see is age. All hit for power. Teoscar and Duvall are high K guys, Duvall being the better defender. Duvall drives me nuts with his streakiness but when hot is crazy hot. Turner much more consistent. These are all 20 to 35 HR guys. Turner being an infielder who can play the corners once in a while adds some value but we all know his time in the field is very limited. 2023 WAR look pretty similar with Teoscar in the middle at 1.4, Duvall at 1.6 and Turner at 1.2. I just dont see him moving the needle and improving the ballclub over last year's last place performance.If you're going to question it, tell us why, and exactly what you're questioning. Do a little digging and show us some data to back it up. What do Turner or Duvall give the Sox that Teoscar doesn't? Show your work.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have one thread to talk about the possible signing and another to address whether there are other/better options out there, but if you're going to start the conversation you've got to bring a lot more in your opening post than you did here. Show us what you got.
Longer term members, I hope you'll take this opportunity to model what the expectations here are, while at the same time exercising some patience as newer folks get acclimated. Thanks!
Couple of things here. "All hit for power" is a bit blunt on the analysis; despite a down year, Teoscar's career slugging is better than the other two by 10/20 points. You can wave your hand and say "20-35 HR guys" are all the same, but, over the last three years, Teo 83 HR, Duvall 57, Turner 63. That's a noteable difference. And as far as "moving the needle" vs last years team, well, right now we have none of these guys under contract for 2024. Maybe you think Turner's the best of the bunch or the best value or whatever but, they definitely do need a right handed bat and Teo looks like a little bit more reliable source of pure power to me. I agree it won't blast them out of last place but not every signing can be a bold faced headline kinda thing.The only advantage I see is age. All hit for power. Teoscar and Duvall are high K guys, Duvall being the better defender. Duvall drives me nuts with his streakiness but when hot is crazy hot. Turner much more consistent. These are all 20 to 35 HR guys. Turner being an infielder who can play the corners once in a while adds some value but we all know his time in the field is very limited. 2023 WAR look pretty similar with Teoscar in the middle at 1.4, Duvall at 1.6 and Turner at 1.2. I just dont see him moving the needle and improving the ballclub over last year's last place performance.
Would using counting stats like home runs without context be a bit blunt on the analysis?Couple of things here. "All hit for power" is a bit blunt on the analysis; despite a down year, Teoscar's career slugging is better than the other two by 10/20 points. You can wave your hand and say "20-35 HR guys" are all the same, but, over the last three years, Teo 83 HR, Duvall 57, Turner 63. That's a noteable difference.
Well, in this case, part of the argument for Teoscar over Duvall is that the former has done a better job staying on the field the last couple of years, so the counting stats reflect this.Would using counting stats like home runs without context be a bit blunt on the analysis?
Because he crushed AAA last year, above anything he'd done before (notably an increased walk rate), and because players do continue to develop. I get all the stuff about what he's done (not buying he went backward last year based on 53 ABs but otherwise yeah). But here's the downside of Hernandez: you sign him for a borderline untradeable number, he's caught and passed by Anthony within a year, and Dalbec goes somewhere else and puts up about the same production. I'm sure the Sox know better than me about whether Dalbec is salvageable and capable of improvement, and maybe the answer is no, but unless we really think Hernandez is just going to go crazy hitting at Fenway, it's a lot of money going to very little improvement.Dalbec has appeared in Boston 4 years running and looked worse every year. Why should we hope for improvement this time?
Yeah, you would have to have some confidence, and/or ride out some LHH/LHP ABs if you aren't even willing to put him in there against those guys. Abreu might be unplayable against LHP, so they'd be taking a few lumps as teams align bad matchups.The problem with giving Dalbec a chance is what happens if/when it doesn’t work out? How good will the guy who agreed to be Dalbec’s backup plan be?
You need to factor in that the International League had a major jump in offense overall last year too, the whole league OPS jumped from .750 in 2022 to .794 in 2023.Because he crushed AAA last year, above anything he'd done before (notably an increased walk rate), and because players do continue to develop.
Right, and if you can get Teoscar on a two year deal, that's a lot better management of their risk. Four years x $20m or whatever... not sure.You need to factor in that the International League had a major jump in offense overall last year too, the whole league OPS jumped from .750 in 2022 to .794 in 2023.
Also players definitely continue to develop and I agree there is often value in 25-27 year olds who haven't fully figured it out yet, but Dalbec turns 29 in June.
Yes, the Sox look like they are hoping to inch forward, not burst forward. It really is a shame that they won't put forth the "full throttle" effort we were told is coming. I think this ownership group has rested on its laurels long enough. Like the slave whispered in the ear of the victorious Roman general, "All glory is fleeting".Couple of things here. "All hit for power" is a bit blunt on the analysis; despite a down year, Teoscar's career slugging is better than the other two by 10/20 points. You can wave your hand and say "20-35 HR guys" are all the same, but, over the last three years, Teo 83 HR, Duvall 57, Turner 63. That's a noteable difference. And as far as "moving the needle" vs last years team, well, right now we have none of these guys under contract for 2024. Maybe you think Turner's the best of the bunch or the best value or whatever but, they definitely do need a right handed bat and Teo looks like a little bit more reliable source of pure power to me. I agree it won't blast them out of last place but not every signing can be a bold faced headline kinda thing.
Perhaps we can reserve this until after the FA period is over. Or better yet just go ahead and start the Red Sox are a bunch of cheap SOBs and have no desire to compete thread so all of that doom and gloom/misery can thrive in one thread rather than pollute all of themYes, the Sox look like they are hoping to inch forward, not burst forward. It really is a shame that they won't put forth the "full throttle" effort we were told is coming. I think this ownership group has rested on its laurels long enough. Like the slave whispered in the ear of the victorious Roman general, "All glory is fleeting".
Here's a list of FAs and signings. https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-24-mlb-free-agents-by-positionYes, the Sox look like they are hoping to inch forward, not burst forward. It really is a shame that they won't put forth the "full throttle" effort we were told is coming. I think this ownership group has rested on its laurels long enough. Like the slave whispered in the ear of the victorious Roman general, "All glory is fleeting".
It is. It's at least less blunt than just throwing out "power hitters" and "20-35 HR hitters." And while it wasn't very nuanced or interesting... come on, there was a rate stat in the post too.Would using counting stats like home runs without context be a bit blunt on the analysis?