Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Kind of an uneven HBO card last night. The Andre Dirrell-Curtis Stevens fight, on paper, looked like the type of matchup that HBO's B.A.D. series used to be known for --up and coming prospects taking big risks by fighting each other. Unfortunately, in this case, neither was anywhere near ready for prime time. Dirrell disgraced himself and threw away whatever potential fan base the HBO exposure could have given him by running like Carl Lewis -- and made himself more insufferable by taunting Stevens in the late rounds. I've got nothing against a little competitive trash talk in the ring. In fact, I kind of enjoy seeing it. But taunting a guy when you're running from him the entire fight is just making a fool of yourself.

Unfortunately Stevens, like his fellow "Chin Checker" Jaidon Codrington, turned out to be much more hype than bite. He had either no ability or no willingness (or both) to slow Dirrell down by presuring him and letting his hands fly. Just never did it. On the rare occasions he got close, he'd take one big swing at Dirrell's head, which the speedier, much taller fighter would easily dodge. And that was the end of it. For a guy who calls himself "Showtime," Stevens was awfully reluctant to put on much of a show.

A more seasoned prospect would have leveled Dirrell, who was wide open for most of the fight. Granted it was only Dirrell's 12th pro bout (he did win an Olympic Bronze medal, however), but if he's that green, what's he doing on HBO? That was an ESPN fight at BEST (and not even an ESPN main event). Horrible, horrible fight. Dirrell won by being the slightly less awful of the two.

The main event was much, much better -- and could have been close to a classic if not for one of the worst refereeing performances I've seen in quite a while. I gained a lot of respect for Paulie Malignaggi after his courageous loss to Cotto last year. Then I had to give him credit for coming back in his return fight against another heavy puncher in Edner Cherry, whom Paulie effectively neutralized.

Now he fights yet another solid puncher in Lovemore N'Dou and puts on a boxing clinic to win the IBF 140-pound belt. Good for Paulie. N'Dou is a tough customer and even though he defaulted into the IBF title when Ricky Hatton refused to fight him (in favor of the bigger money fight aganst Jose Luis Castillo, which is next Saturday on HBO), he's always been one of the more dangerous 140-pounders out there. But he had no answer for Malignaggi's sharp jab, though he mounted a fairly exciting late-round surge.

I think Malignaggi would have won regardless. He was just the quicker, sharper, better guy. But Referee Eddie Cotton gave him a hell of a lot of help -- and robbed the fans of a much more exciting fight. He warned N'Dou constantly for "punching in the back," an offense that was barely visible, took a point away for lame "rabbit punch," which was really more of a slap -- and worst of all, separted the fighters EVERY TIME they got close. I can understand it if the fight was some kind of John Ruiz-like clinch fest, but it wasn't. What little clinching there was was done by Mailignaggi. It seemed prety obvious to me that all Cotton was doing was taking away N'Dou's inside game. Unfortunately for N'Dou and the fans watching this fight, the inside game IS N'Dou's game.

I hate to think what a fight like Coralles-Castillo woudl have been like with Cotton as the ref. That fight was a classic because the whole thing was fought at close range.

I really have to question what was going on there. It seemed about as clear a case of biased refereeing as I've ever seen.

But it was fun to see Cotto-Judah replayed to lead off the broadcast -- and I'm pretty excited for Hatton-Castillo next weekend. Malignaggi wants Hatton next. But I think Castillo may give Hatton a bit more than he can handle.

 

[BGrif21125]

I just caught bits and pieces of the BAD card. Judging from the round or two that I saw of the undercard fight (and judging from the comments here), it seems like I'm better off for not seeing the whole thing. I'll have to check out the Malignaggi fight later this week.

Some stuff I've gathered from various columns/chats this week:

If Margarito wins next month, it's Cotto-Margarito in Nov/Dec later this year, almost certainly at MSG. (And after the awesome crowd at Cotto-Judah, I'll do everything in my power to get back to MSG for Cotto-Margarito).

If Williams beats Margarito, Cotto's opponent could be either Cintron (if he wins the same night) or possibly even Joshua Clottey. I think Clottey is a very dangerous fighter and I think a Cotto-Clottey fight would be a phenomenal matchup.

Oscar came out this week and stated that he has no interest in a rematch. This is good news because:
1. Immediate rematches are always anti-climatic, and this one would be no different. Floyd would win again in a technical boxing match. Probably in easier fashion this time.

2. This is a business move by Oscar, as by announcing he wants no part of a rematch, he's forcing Floyd to start paying more serious attention to Mosley (another Golden Boy fighter.) As long as the De La Hoya rematch was out there as a possibility, there's no way Floyd was going to pay any attention to Shane. Now he has to give Shane some consideration. It's the biggest fight out there for Floyd, both money-wise and hype-wise.

OK, with that said, I guess it's time to start firing up our Hatton-Castillo predictions....
I like Hatton by decision. He's younger, and more experienced at this weight. Although a Castillo win won hardly surprise me. I've never been completely sold on Hatton.
This fight's been billed as a Fight of the Year candidate, they've got a tough act to follow after Cotto-Judah.

 

[inter tatters]

If Hatton can get back to the all-action, all-out pressure style that made his name, that forced Tszyu to quit on his stool and that KO'd Carlos Maussa, rather than the 'build a lead then grab on' style of his last few fights, then I think his overall strength at the weight will give him the victory and, probably, make it the great fight we are all hoping for.

If he reverts to the style of his last few fights, Castillo won't be as easy to grab, will pick him off and probably win by decision in a not-so-great fight.

 

[BGrif21125]

Per Dan Rafael, Golden Boy and Top Rank are currently involved in closed-door meetings, attempting to settle all their various lawsuits against each other, with the Pacquiao situation the most important of all.

I'm not holding my breath on anything getting done, but this would be huge news. This has almost developed into a boxing Cold War, with Top Rank fighters only fighting other Top Rank fighters, Golden Boy fighters only fighting other Golden Boy fighters, with a big-name free agent like Floyd the only type of guy who can fight anyone.

This would open the door to Pacquiao-Marquez II, Pacquiao-Barrera II, Cotto-Mosley, just to name a few.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Per Dan Rafael, Golden Boy and Top Rank are currently involved in closed-door meetings, attempting to settle all their various lawsuits against each other, with the Pacquiao situation the most important of all.

I'm not holding my breath on anything getting done, but this would be huge news. This has almost developed into a boxing Cold War, with Top Rank fighters only fighting other Top Rank fighters, Golden Boy fighters only fighting other Golden Boy fighters, with a big-name free agent like Floyd the only type of guy who can fight anyone.

This would open the door to Pacquiao-Marquez II, Pacquiao-Barrera II, Cotto-Mosley, just to name a few.

Of course, Floyd also has an ongoing feud with Arum and has supposedly vowed never to fight in an Arum-promoted event again. Unless that situation changes, it pretty much rules out a Cotto-Mayweather fight, which is really a shame. Then again, I don't believe that Mayweather would ever fight Cotto anyway, for reasons I stated earlier.

I thought it was interesting that De La Hoya came out and said that he's not retired but has ruled out a rematch with Mayweather just a few days after the Cotto-Judah success. A De La Hoya - Cotto fight (assuming GBP and Top Rank can iron out their differences) is a fight that could not only go into Yankee Stadium, I believe it could sell out Yankee Stadium AND set a new PPV record with upwards of 2.5 million, maybe approaching 3. I just wonder if that's what Oscar has in mind.

On the other hand, Cotto has a way of destroying fighters who are younger and fresher than DLH, and I don't see any way that Oscar wins that fight, so I wouldn't blame Oscar, who has a pretty good thing going in life, for deciding that the beating he'd receive just isn't worth the money, astronomical though the money would be.

 

[ElUno20]

If Hatton can get back to the all-action, all-out pressure style that made his name, that forced Tszyu to quit on his stool and that KO'd Carlos Maussa, rather than the 'build a lead then grab on' style of his last few fights, then I think his overall strength at the weight will give him the victory and, probably, make it the great fight we are all hoping for.

But he hugged his ass off against Tszyu and got away with a ton of rabbit and back punches. If Castillo is crisp, he'll murder Hatton on the inside. Murder.

 

[dempsey6068]

I'm pretty tired, so this won't be too scientific. It seems like Hatton is getting worse and worse with each fight. Rumor has it, he's a big drinker, and though he trains hard, the older you get, the more difficult it is to make up in the gym what you do outside of it. If I were Castillo I'd keep my hands high, let Hatton bang my arms for a few rounds while he dances around and darts in and out, try to get to his body a little bit, and go for the kill in the later rounds.

Malinaggi, or as Lennox Lewis calls him Magilinagi looked fairly good. Nice hand speed and angles, but no power. It did look like his right hand was still being held back. The way N'Dou was parrying all those lead hooks, I would've liked to see him come back with the cross after. Also, while he was backing up, he could've planted that back foot and popped the cross.

The Dirrell fight was terrible. I watched golf instead. He's got a ton of natural talent, but needs to learn to fight.

 

[BGrif21125]

I thought it was interesting that De La Hoya came out and said that he's not retired but has ruled out a rematch with Mayweather just a few days after the Cotto-Judah success. A De La Hoya - Cotto fight (assuming GBP and Top Rank can iron out their differences) is a fight that could not only go into Yankee Stadium, I believe it could sell out Yankee Stadium AND set a new PPV record with upwards of 2.5 million, maybe approaching 3. I just wonder if that's what Oscar has in mind.

On the other hand, Cotto has a way of destroying fighters who are younger and fresher than DLH, and I don't see any way that Oscar wins that fight, so I wouldn't blame Oscar, who has a pretty good thing going in life, for deciding that the beating he'd receive just isn't worth the money, astronomical though the money would be.

I'm skeptical of this fight ever happening. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it.

But I honestly believe there's only one fight that Oscar really cares about, and that's a rematch with Trinidad. The Mayweather fight was always Plan B, Trinidad was Plan A. Back then, Trinidad said he was staying retired. Now he recently said it's "50-50."

And Trinidad would be a huge money maker. Cotto is obviously the younger, fresher fighter, but Trinidad still carries more big-name clout that Cotto, not just in the US in general, but also among the Puerto Rican fanbase. Trinidad is still an icon.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I'm pretty tired, so this won't be too scientific. It seems like Hatton is getting worse and worse with each fight. Rumor has it, he's a big drinker, and though he trains hard, the older you get, the more difficult it is to make up in the gym what you do outside of it. If I were Castillo I'd keep my hands high, let Hatton bang my arms for a few rounds while he dances around and darts in and out, try to get to his body a little bit, and go for the kill in the later rounds.

This is a tough fight to call because the real question is, what does Castillo have left? No question in my mind that the Castillo of 2 years ago tears Hatton apart. But today? After all the wars he's been through -- including his war with the scales -- and how he looked in his January fight (A split decision? Against Herman Ngoudjo?), I'm just not sure what kind of Castillo we're going to see in there.


I've always thought Hatton was way overrated. Like most Frank Warren fighters (which Hatton was until two years ago) he was carefully protected coming up, fought almost exclusively in the UK and benefitted from some nod-and-a-wink refereeing, especially in the Tszyu fight where he got away with a lot, including a blatantly intentional low blow -- he even admitted it was intentional (at least in so many words). He earned his "Fighter of the Year" recognition in 2005 for beating Tszyu -- who was 35, coming off shoulder surgery and fighting just his 4th fight in four years -- and Carlos Maussa whose claim to fame was landing a wild haymaker against an overtrained and overanxious Vivian Harris (then hitting Harris when he was down to finish him off). Big deal. I was never convinced.


Then Hatton comes to the U.S. and nearly gets iced at welterweight by the feather-fisted Luis Collazo, before dropping back to 140 and winning an unwatchable clinch-fest against the mediocre Juan Urango. I just don't get the Hatton hype. Plus he's notorious for living it up between fights and ballooning up to around 180 or even 200 according to some rumors. If you've ever seen him interviewed when he's not in training, he hardly looks like the same person (hence his nickname in Britain, "Ricky Fatton"). There's only so much of that weight yo-yoing a person's body can take.

That said, he is a decent fighter with above-average hand speed and, when he's not clinching, a high-pressure style that can be very disconcerting to most fighters. If Castillo is really starting to slip, the Mexican will be in for a long night.

But I honestly believe there's only one fight that Oscar really cares about, and that's a rematch with Trinidad. The Mayweather fight was always Plan B, Trinidad was Plan A. Back then, Trinidad said he was staying retired. Now he recently said it's "50-50."

And Trinidad would be a huge money maker. Cotto is obviously the younger, fresher fighter, but Trinidad still carries more big-name clout that Cotto, not just in the US in general, but also among the Puerto Rican fanbase. Trinidad is still an icon.

True. And it's a much lower-risk fight for Oscar since Trinidad was already a shadow of his former self when he retired. Of course, from a pure boxing standpoint, this fight makes only slightly less sense at this point than an Ali-Foreman rematch. I mean, why don't they just start a boxing "Seniors Tour." But unfortunately, I think you're right, DLH wants that "redemption" against Trinidad and there would be just eye-popping amounts of money involved.

 

[BGrif21125]

Gene just described my exact thoughts on Hatton. He's a nice little fighter, but I've never understood the hype.

Zab Judah hasn't won in more than 2 years, yet if he could get down to 140 (which I don't think he can, fwiw), I think he could pick Hatton apart.

 

[BGrif21125]

Here's a pic of Buster Douglas from last weekend's HOF festivities, wearing quite possibly the single greatest shirt that I've ever seen....

 

[inter tatters]

Ricky Hatton has sent a shot across Castillo's bow, saying he won't fight if Castillo fails to make the weight for Saturdays fight. Castillo said he was 'Comfortably 3lbs over the limit' at a press conference on Wednesday.

 

[BGrif21125]

Ricky Hatton has sent a shot across Castillo's bow, saying he won't fight if Castillo fails to make the weight for Saturdays fight. Castillo said he was 'Comfortably 3lbs over the limit' at a press conference on Wednesday.

I'm sure there are a lot of concerned people in Vegas who are counting the minutes until this weigh-in.

There's no undercard fight tomorrow night, which is disappointing.

 

[inter tatters]

There's no undercard fight tomorrow night, which is disappointing.

That is a shame. Was there ever any scheduled and have fallen through, or was it designed as a one-fight show?

Just been reading some chat from here in the UK (and Dan Rafael on ESPN is also claiming to have heard it). Clinton Woods' apparent 'Injury' that forced him to pull out of the Julio Gonzalez mandatory, was nothing of the sort. Frank Warren has apparently been mentioning a British Super-Fight against Joe Calzaghe in the Fall and Woods' promoter didn't want to risk a big Pay-day if Woods got beaten by Gonzalez.

Still no word out of Denmark on whether or not Warren did agree to the offer of Calzaghe-Mikel Kessler. Strange that Morgen Palle, Kessler's promoter, hasn't flat-out denied it, or at least said something? Maybe they were just shocked that Warren even bothered to reply! :lol:

 

[inter tatters]

Just realised that Woods-Gonzalez was the under-card for Hatton-Castillo! Doh!

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

A judge has ruled that due to the pending lawsuit by the estate of the late Diego Corrales against Jose Luis Castillo (for his failure to make weight, canceling Corrales-Castillo III), Castillo's entire purse will be withheld tomorrow. In effect, Castillo, who's already having financial troubles due the weight fiasco and the fines he had to pay, will be fighting for free.

Hardly seems fair -- and how it affects the fight remains to be seen. Will this kill Castillo's motivation, or increase it?

 

[inter tatters]

I think it'll make Castillo more desperate to win and make it a great fight in the process. Simply because, Hatton has an automatic re-match clause in the contract for this fight if Castillo wins. If it is a great fight, at least Castillo will have the purse from any re-match and it'll be hyped to high-heaven after the 1st fight.

 

[Naehring11]

From Dan Rafael's chat on Espn.com

Anthony (New York): Can you comment on the decision to withhold Castillo's entire purse for this fight? I think they should have waited for something like that until after the fight and that this could be a real distraction for Castillo.

Dan Rafael: (2:04 PM ET ) This is a terrible internet rumor brought on by a Web site's awful reporting. His purse is not being held. Don't believe everything you read on sites that are not professionally run.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16265

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

From Dan Rafael's chat on Espn.com
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16265

Rafael's one of the best boxing reporters going right now, so I'll take his word for it here and say that's a relief! I really hope he's right. The idea of watching a guy go into what's likely to be a war without getting paid was souring this one for me.

 

[BGrif21125]

They've both made weight.

 

[BGrif21125]

I think it'll make Castillo more desperate to win and make it a great fight in the process. Simply because, Hatton has an automatic re-match clause in the contract for this fight if Castillo wins. If it is a great fight, at least Castillo will have the purse from any re-match and it'll be hyped to high-heaven after the 1st fight.

You're in the UK, huh?

How is this fight being shown in the UK? I know it will be shown live around 3 AM local time, but is it on a free TV channel, pay-per-view, etc.?

I'm just curious to know how accessible a big fight is in the UK as opposed to the US, where any big fight is either going to be on a monthly-fee cable channel (like tonight's fight will be in the US) or only available via pay-per-view.

 

[That Guy]

You're in the UK, huh?

How is this fight being shown in the UK? I know it will be shown live around 3 AM local time, but is it on a free TV channel, pay-per-view, etc.?

I'm just curious to know how accessible a big fight is in the UK as opposed to the US, where any big fight is either going to be on a monthly-fee cable channel (like tonight's fight will be in the US) or only available via pay-per-view.

I'm a relatively new fan to the sport of boxing. I was a little disappointed with all the smothering that was going on during the fight tonight but I was glad to see that they continued to at least slug it out through the rounds. I never even seen that body shot, and like the announcers I thought Castillo was trying to make a point to the ref that he had been hit below the belt, but I was glad to see Hatton win, a great fight for him even though Castillo was not at his best.

 

[shawnrbu]

Man, tonight's fight was a huge disappointment. It's a good win for Hatton, but I really have not enjoyed his style of fighting. Wayyyy too much clinching. Sadly, Castillo looks shot.

After last week, I was psyched for a possible Hatton/Malignaggi fight, but after tonight the feather-fisted Malignaggi wouldn't have a prayer against this Hatton.

Love the crowd Hatton attracts to his fight. A Cotto/Hatton fight would be insane atmosphere!

 

[ElUno20]

Hatton beats a shot Castillo. And while he knocked him out (Castillo pulled a Morales), the fight just made me hate Hatton even more. 4 rounds of the most obvious and non-warned clinched I've ever seen. I think Hatton/Floyd might happen. HBO seems to be seriously backing him. With Lampley and Steward chastising Harold and Max for (finally) calling Hatton on his obvious clinching.

I will say this though, if he does fight Floyd it won't be a contest. I doubt he'd win a round. It'd be along the lines of Baldomir/Mayweather. He has horrible technique and his "jumping from 4 feet out" to throw a punch style would be easily picked apart.

Geez what a bad fight. At least July is a busy month for boxing.

 

[BGrif21125]

Castillo is shot. He's done. That performance defined the old boxing adage of "a fighter can get old overnight." He looked like he was moving in slow motion. All the wars and the battles with weight have caught up to him.

Nice win for Hatton, he did what he needed to do. But if he moves to 147, any of the top 5 welterweights will beat him. Mayweather would destroy him, as would Cotto.

I've been saying for awhile that I would be OK with Mayweather-Hatton happening (even though I think it will be a blowout) just because it will be such a huge event.

 

[That Guy]

I hate "Walking in a Hatton Wonderland". What does that even mean? Amazing support for him over in the UK though. A Floyd/Hatton fight would be huge over there. Any predictions for Klitschko vs Brewster II? I'm leaning towards Brewster because of his past success againt Klitschko, but you guys know more about them than I, any thoughts?

 

[shawnrbu]

Klitschko will dispose of Brewster easily. Klit was dominating their first encounter till weirdness ensued. Brewster nearly lost his vision in his last fight and is only getting this fight because Klit wants to avenge the loss.

 

[BGrif21125]

I hate "Walking in a Hatton Wonderland". What does that even mean? Amazing support for him over in the UK though. A Floyd/Hatton fight would be huge over there. Any predictions for Klitschko vs Brewster II? I'm leaning towards Brewster because of his past success againt Klitschko, but you guys know more about them than I, any thoughts?

Wlad by KO.

 

[ElUno20]

Agreed. The ironic part of the heavyweight division is its main guy (Wlad) is the antithesis of the entire division. He's exciting and knocks guy the F out. I honestly think he's a robot, no emotion, says the right things, goes in the ring and destroys guys.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

That whole thing was just sad to watch tonight. It was clear that Castillo never really recovered from the first Corrales fight and, maybe even worse, his debilitating battles to make weight. He's had so many wars over a very long career, he just wasn't up for another one.

I think Paulie Malignaggi was on to something in his post fight interview last week after beating the very tough Lovemore N'Dou when he called out Hatton and accused Hatton of taking the easy way out by ducking N'Dou to fight Castillo. Max Kellerman congratulated Hatton for defending his "true, linear" junior-welterweight title. But he gave up his belt because N'Dou was his mandatory and he preferred to fight Castillo. So if you duck the tougher guy to fight the shot fighter, how can you be a "true" champion?

Honestly, I don't care if I ever see Ricky Hatton again. Harold Lederman couldn't have been more right when he called him "Hook and Hold" Hatton. To me, the guy is just not fun or exciting to watch -- and as far as I'm concerned STILL hasn't faced a truly dangerous opponent. Kostya Tszyu was well on the downhill and now Castillo, obviously, over the hill -- and those by his own statements are his two biggest fights. I've really soured on Mayweather lately, but if he fought Hatton I'd be rooting hard for the Pretty Boy to expose this fraud once and for all -- which he would, in fact, easily do. In fact, I'll say right here that Paulie Malignaggi beats Hatton and beats him rather easily. Maybe 8 rounds to 4.

After tonight, I wish both of those guys would go away, but for different reasons. Castillo because he's a shadow of his former self and I can't stand to watch him like that; Hatton because, well, I just can't stand to watch him.

Any predictions for Klitschko vs Brewster II? I'm leaning towards Brewster because of his past success againt Klitschko, but you guys know more about them than I, any thoughts?

I really like Brewster a lot, but Wlad's going to ice him. Klitschkos just on too much of a roll right now. Their first fight ended very strangely, and Klitschko is an infinitely more polished fighter now anyway. I do think this fight will be more competitive and entertaining than any of Klitschko's recent fights, however and Brewster always has a puncher's chance. Remember that Sam Peter put Wlad down three times, and Brewster hits as hard as Peter but with more acccuracy.

Still, I say Klitschko inside of 10.

 

[BGrif21125]

That whole thing was just sad to watch tonight. It was clear that Castillo never really recovered from the first Corrales fight and, maybe even worse, his debilitating battles to make weight. He's had so many wars over a very long career, he just wasn't up for another one.

There's nothing worse in all of sports than watching a shot fighter take a beating. It's the worst. Watching Castillo last night was similar to watching Morales in his last fight with Pacquiao. No legs, no speed, no reflexes. And once those things leave a fighter, they don't come back.

I think Paulie Malignaggi was on to something in his post fight interview last week after beating the very tough Lovemore N'Dou when he called out Hatton and accused Hatton of taking the easy way out by ducking N'Dou to fight Castillo. Max Kellerman congratulated Hatton for defending his "true, linear" junior-welterweight title. But he gave up his belt because N'Dou was his mandatory and he preferred to fight Castillo. So if you duck the tougher guy to fight the shot fighter, how can you be a "true" champion?

If Hatton decides to stay at 140 (which I wouldn't criticize him for, it's his natural division) a fight with Malignaggi would be interesting. It'd be a good style matchup, slick boxer vs. straight ahead body puncher. That fight could sell a ton of tickets if they had it either at MSG or in Atlantic City. It would draw the NY Malignaggi crowd, and also cut the travel time in half for the thousands of Hatton fans that would make their way over.
As for what Paulie said about Hatton ducking N'Dou, I don't fault Hatton for fighting Castillo. Hatton agreed to the fight before their warmup fights (when Castillo looked awful), and at the time the fight was originally made, everyone thought of Castillo as the toughest guy out there for Hatton to fight (at least I did). So I can't accuse Hatton of ducking anyone in this case, he couldn't control the fact that Castillo showed up as a shot fighter.

Honestly, I don't care if I ever see Ricky Hatton again. Harold Lederman couldn't have been more right when he called him "Hook and Hold" Hatton. To me, the guy is just not fun or exciting to watch -- and as far as I'm concerned STILL hasn't faced a truly dangerous opponent.

I agree. Generally I try to stay out of the "Who's exciting to watch" debates, because so much of it is personal choice, but I do feel that Hatton's rep as an exciting fighter is overrated. I don't see it.
Floyd gets bashed all the time as boring (and I'll admit, some of it is deserved) but I'd rather watch someone of his skill level anyday over a straight ahead mauler like Hatton.
Like I said, I try not to get into the "excitement" arguments, because over the years I've always taken a liking to defensive specialists (Whitaker, Toney, Mayweather), but two guys fighting in a phone booth like last night is just not my idea of excitement. I'm with you 100% there.

I've really soured on Mayweather lately, but if he fought Hatton I'd be rooting hard for the Pretty Boy to expose this fraud once and for all -- which he would, in fact, easily do. In fact, I'll say right here that Paulie Malignaggi beats Hatton and beats him rather easily. Maybe 8 rounds to 4.

IMO, Floyd-Hatton would be like Floyd-Gatti II. Besides the obvious gaping disparity in speed and skill, Mayweather has a significant reach advantage as well. When one guy is faster, more skillful, taller, and has longer arms, that's the recipe for a blowout.
As I said above, I think Malignaggi-Hatton would be an intriguing matchup. I'd probably make Hatton a slight favorite, but I need to think about it more.

There are some real interesting matchmaking decisions to be made over the next 6-12 months.
I understand the frustration to some degree with Mayweather, but right now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even if he never said he was retiring, he wouldn't be fighting until November or December regardless, so I'm going to hold off before I start thinking he's ducking anyone.
With Cotto-Judah, Hatton-Castillo, and Margarito-Williams, those are three huge fights that all have a huge effect on the "landscape" at 147. It behooves Mayweather to wait until those fights are all done before evaluating where everything stands at that point.
If we get to November/December and Floyd still isn't scheduled to fight someone, then I'll start criticizing him. But I still think he'll end up fighting Mosley in the next 6-8 months, with Cotto fighting someone out of Margarito/Williams/Cintron/Clottey at the same time. I think Floyd is just playing hard to get right now. It can be annoying, but it's just part of his personality.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

I hate "Walking in a Hatton Wonderland". What does that even mean? Amazing support for him over in the UK though. A Floyd/Hatton fight would be huge over there. Any predictions for Klitschko vs Brewster II? I'm leaning towards Brewster because of his past success againt Klitschko, but you guys know more about them than I, any thoughts?

It's commonly sung on football terraces in the UK. Considering most of Hatton's support comes from Manchester City fans looking for something, anything, to cheer for, it's no surprise his fights bring the atmosphere commonly associated with soccer games.

 

[BigA27]

Castillo has always been a bit of a slow starter. That was my initial thought when I watched the fight. During the third round when he started to actually return fire with some sucess I figured he was just getting warmed up. Hatton hit him with a pretty good body shot, looked on the rib-liver borderline and obvious had an effect.

I don't know if I would call Castillo shot. I think he is obviously on the downside of his career but I don't think Hatton simply overwhelmed a tired shot fighter. Castillo was just warming up, then took a big shot to the body. Body shots can stop anybody. Until he totally detoriated, Ray Mercer was almost impossible to knock down. First person to drop him was Holyfield with a body shot.

As for Wlad-Brewster. I think Wlad wins a boring lopsided decision. Brewster is very much damaged goods. He has taked way too much damage in all his title defenses. The White Wolf (I am not even going to attempt to spell his last name) detached his retina and had him out on his feet twice.
He beat Wlad the first time by simply taking a hellacious beating and then in a very Homer Simpsonesque moment essentially pushing over the exhausted Klitschko. I think Wlad fights much smarter, clinches when has to, and wins this fight with his jab.

 

[dempsey6068]

I don't really see how you can say that Castillo was just warming up. He looked super slow. His hooks took half and hour to develop and were totally telegraphed. The only reason he was able to hang around and look like he had a chance to get to Hatton was because Ricky just isn't that good. I don't know what he was able to do in the Tszyu fight, but I haven't seen anything like that again. His game plan was terrible. Speed should stay on the outside. He looked like an undersized John Ruiz out there, hook and clinch. Why would you give up your most obvious advantage in order to give an overmatched opponent a chance? It's at the point where I just want to see Hatton fight someone good and get picked off so we can stop hearing about him. He gets killed by anyone at 147, and I think Malinaggi is able to pick him apart, though obviously not knock him out.

 

[inter tatters]

You're in the UK, huh?

How is this fight being shown in the UK? I know it will be shown live around 3 AM local time, but is it on a free TV channel, pay-per-view, etc.?

I'm just curious to know how accessible a big fight is in the UK as opposed to the US, where any big fight is either going to be on a monthly-fee cable channel (like tonight's fight will be in the US) or only available via pay-per-view.

Usually Sky TV has the fights and, for the bigger fights, they put them on PPV. They did us all a massive favour by putting the Mayweather-ODH fight on non-PPV, but that was the expception rather than the rule (we had to pay for Cotto-Judah for example), they do show them for free the next day though, so I don't see the point of paying for them just to have to stay up 'til 3am just to watch them live when I can have a decent sleep and watch them on Sunday afternoon! Sky also show up-and-coming British, Commonwealth and European fighters on Friday nights, plus some mid-week US fights (Wednesday Night Fights?) they showed Malignaggi-N'Dou on there this week.

All that being said, Hatton-Castillo was on Sky's only real Sports challenger right now, the Ireland-based Setanta Sports. Now I happen to have Setanta because they run NASN, which is the North American Sports channel that ESPN runs for them and allows me to see Red Sox games, but the majority of the British public won't buy it, cos it's an extra £15 ($30) a month on top of Sky Sports. This has led to a pretty big back-lash that Hatton's fight was not available to a large British audience. They'd better get used to Setanta, cos they've just taken a significant number of the English Premier League Soccer games for the next 4 seasons away from Sky (so Sky couldn't be accused of having a 'Monopoly' on Soccer, under UK Law). So they're here to stay.

As for the fight itself, well my Baby son woke up for a feed at 3.30am, so I just turned on the Fight and by the time of the KO, he was finished and I went back to bed!

Yeah, Hatton can be accused of being a rough and tumble type, but you can only beat what's put in front of you and he did that with a great punch.

BTW, Did any of you get to see the under-card? Ricky's brother, Matthew, was in a decent scrap. He looks a better 'Boxer' than Ricky, but he can't really take a shot like his Brother, hence the reason he's got 3 losses on his record.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I don't really see how you can say that Castillo was just warming up. He looked super slow. His hooks took half and hour to develop and were totally telegraphed. The only reason he was able to hang around and look like he had a chance to get to Hatton was because Ricky just isn't that good.

Yup, that hits the nail on the head. The current version of Castillo is pretty horrible and any good 140-pounder would take him out, maybe earlier than the 4th round. Though the HBO announcers tried to cover for him ("Even though he's clinching, he's clinching and throwing punches at the same time!"), that was the same Hatton we saw against Collazo and Urango: a guy who despite decent hand speed and a come-forward style is basically a boring fighter with "fringe contender" skills who relies on holding and roughhouse tactics to beat marginal or badly faded opposition. I don't think it's a coincidence that the "hook-and-hold" style started when he began fighting in the U.S.. In the U.K. the refs let him get away with anything, so over there elbows and low blows were more his style. The Tszyu fight was pretty much even until Hatton landed a bullseye low-blow which he basically admitted was intentional.

I can't imagine Mayweather would ever fight him because, even with Ricky's traveling fan contingent, that's not a money fight. It's a PPV bomb since neither fighter has much of a U.S. constituency. And I doubt it would sell out a casino space -- and definitely not a legit arena like MSG or Staples. Furthermore, there's no reason for Floyd to go to England for that fight where it's not uncommon for American fighters to walk away with far less of their purses than they were promised (reportedly, Peter Manfredo still hasn't been fully paid forthe Calzaghe fight).

So what's in it for Pretty Boy? He's obviously past the point of chasing mid-level paydays and everyone who's not from Manchester, England assumes that Floyd would tear Hatton apart, so the fight doesn't add to his cherished "legacy" either.

And who besides Ricky's fans and Ricky;s HBO backers is asking for that fight? Don't most boxing fans want to see Mayweather fight someone who'll test him, like Mosely or Cotto (the only fights out there for him right now, with DLH out of the picture and Margarito bringing no fan base)?

The only other true megafight for Hatton right now is Cotto, which would be a more interesting fight but ultimately, another mismatch. Cotto's just too big and strong for Hatton. The main thing that makes that fight interesting is the point where Cottos' leaky defense meets Hatton's superior hand speed. But if Zab couldn't stop Cotto, I don't see how Ricky does either (though he could hurt him and make it exciting). Besides, Ricky would squelch his own momentum by clinching, as he did against Castillo.

I think the best bet for Ricky right now is to return to England and go on a unification campaign. Make Malignaggi come over there and if Hatton comes out with the hometown decision, call out Vivian Harris (who, like Malignaggi, is alreday calling out Hatton) next (assuming Harris beats Junior Witter, whenever they fight). I doubt he beats Harris either, but at least he'd have a chance. Both of those fights put 40 or 50,000 in a soccer stadium.

Of course, a big part of me wishes that Hatton would just go away.

 

[BGrif21125]

I can't imagine Mayweather would ever fight him because, even with Ricky's traveling fan contingent, that's not a money fight. It's a PPV bomb since neither fighter has much of a U.S. constituency. And I doubt it would sell out a casino space -- and definitely not a legit arena like MSG or Staples. Furthermore, there's no reason for Floyd to go to England for that fight where it's not uncommon for American fighters to walk away with far less of their purses than they were promised (reportedly, Peter Manfredo still hasn't been fully paid forthe Calzaghe fight).

I've felt all along that the only way Mayweather-Hatton would be a big event was if it was in the UK, where the potential to sell out a soccer stadium would make it noteworthy.
I asked Rafael about this in a chat recently and he said that he sees no scenario where Mayweather-Hatton happens, and a big reason is because HBO would never agree to stage a major PPV event overseas.

While there a ton of very good fighters right now at 147, the only truly big fights are a Mayweather-Mosley fight in Vegas or Mayweather-Cotto at MSG.
If Cotto-Margarito comes together, that will draw a great Puerto Rican/Mexican crowd in NY and will sell out, but it won't do well on PPV, as evidenced by the lackluster 225,000 buys that Cotto-Judah got.

 

[inter tatters]

The thing that is really interesting me is the way you guys on here are tearing Hatton apart for beating a 'fading' Castillo, yet every US website I have found is lauding his performance, expecially the well regarded Dan Rafael? I know you guys obviously don't like his style (I don't care for it much either personally), but you can't bash the fact that he dropped a guy that has never been downed before.

'Roughhouse' or not, Hatton gets the job done and brings in fans with his all-action style. As Hatton said, there was more action in that 4 rounds than there has been in Mayweather's last 10 fights, and the casual fight fan prefers that to the stick and move stuff. I don't expect Mayweather to take on Hatton, but a Cotto or Malinaggi fight in New York is bound to bring in a huge vocal crowd and I suspect that one of those two will be touted before long.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I've felt all along that the only way Mayweather-Hatton would be a big event was if it was in the UK, where the potential to sell out a soccer stadium would make it noteworthy.
I asked Rafael about this in a chat recently and he said that he sees no scenario where Mayweather-Hatton happens, and a big reason is because HBO would never agree to stage a major PPV event overseas.

While there a ton of very good fighters right now at 147, the only truly big fights are a Mayweather-Mosley fight in Vegas or Mayweather-Cotto at MSG.
If Cotto-Margarito comes together, that will draw a great Puerto Rican/Mexican crowd in NY and will sell out, but it won't do well on PPV, as evidenced by the lackluster 225,000 buys that Cotto-Judah got.

I gotta say, I'm very surprised that Cotto-Judah did only 225K PPV (though according to Arum that was more than enough to make a profit). I really thought it would do much, much better than that. I was thinking upward of 300K with a chance at cracking 400. Obviously, I misread that situation pretty badly.

I guess it shows that there's still a big difference between a gate attraction (like Cotto) and a PPV attraction (like Trinidad or, obviously, DLH). I think Cotto's rather unassuming personality is working against him on the PPV side. I think, perhaps, PPV viewers need a compelling storyline to shell out their cash. Great personalities make great storylines. Cotto doesn't give them that. But the live-gate fight fan mainly wants to see action. Cotto provides that in great supply. I'm sure that there are many other factors involved, but I think that's one problem Cotto faces. It's fantastic that he's doing his best to speak English, but he's still the same low-key guy in any language.


As for Hatton, it won't happen for a while, but if "The Baby Bull" Juan Diaz could move up to 140, a Diaz-Hatton fight really would be a potential FOY.

 

[BGrif21125]

The thing that is really interesting me is the way you guys on here are tearing Hatton apart for beating a 'fading' Castillo, yet every US website I have found is lauding his performance, expecially the well regarded Dan Rafael? I know you guys obviously don't like his style (I don't care for it much either personally), but you can't bash the fact that he dropped a guy that has never been downed before.

There's a middle ground. I give Hatton credit for what he did the other night. He did what he had to do. He won decisively. I think Hatton is the best in the world at 140. I wouldn't fault Hatton at all for staying at 140 and fighting the likes of Malignaggi.

I just think Hatton would lose to any of the Top 5 welterweights in the world. He'd be moving from one of the least talented divisions (140) to the single most loaded division in the sport (147).
I don't think Hatton wins a single round against Floyd and I think Cotto is too big and strong.

 

[BGrif21125]

I gotta say, I'm very surprised that Cotto-Judah did only 225K PPV (though according to Arum that was more than enough to make a profit). I really thought it would do much, much better than that. I was thinking upward of 300K with a chance at cracking 400. Obviously, I misread that situation pretty badly.

I guess it shows that there's still a big difference between a gate attraction (like Cotto) and a PPV attraction (like Trinidad or, obviously, DLH).

I didn't have quite the same expectations as you PPV-wise, but I was surprised the fight did that low of a number. By comparison, I believe Mayweather-Baldomir did around 375K or 400K last year. You wouldn't think there'd be that big of a gap.
Still the fact that Cotto could draw the largest crowd ever at MSG is pretty damn impressive.

Cotto still has some time to become a PPV star. Trinidad was largely unknown to most of the US until he fought Oscar. If Cotto gets that defining fight in the next year or two, he could become a bigger PPV draw.
Even though he didn't speak English, Trinidad did have a certain flare (not to mention one-punch KO power) that Cotto may lack, but Cotto can make up for that if he keeps fighting top guys.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Mayweather's apparently responded to Hatton's dissing of him in the post-fight interview (no link because this comes from a subscription site and was quoted on another message board):

"He talked the talk. He tried to disrespect me on the network Saturday. Now all this punk has to do is sign a contract ASAP and that's his ass. I doubt he's going to step up to the plate because all he does is use my name to promote himself. We're going to find out very shortly if he really wants the fight. He signs the contract I promise you I'll beat that ass back to England," said Mayweather.

"He's talking about action which is crazy because this dude did more holding in his last fight which only lasted four rounds, than I have in my whole career. He keeps on letting my name come out his mouth, he just needs to be careful what he asks for, cause ain't nothing but the truth over here," said Mayweather.

Normally Floyd's empty "I'll beat that ass"-type threats just annoy me, but in this case I think he's speaking the truth. I think he would lay a pretty good beating on Hatton and probably stop him on cuts in the late rounds. He also makes a pretty good point about Hatton's holding. Whatever I may think of Floyd's style, he's anything but a grabber.

Unfortunately I think Pretty Boy's just talking here. For reasons I stated earlier, I don't think he's interested in this fight -- and even if he were, I don't believe it could ever be made at the negotiating table. Hatton would want more money than Floyd would be willing to allow, and would insist on fighting at a catch weight which I think Floyd would also be unwilling to concede. And why should he?

But it's interesting that Hatton seems to have captured the attention of the "retired" Mayweather, at least.

 

[dempsey6068]

Depending on how much Gatti shows he has left in a couple of weeks, he might potentially make for a good fight against Hatton. Though I cannot really see what would be in that for Hatton, besides a decent payday. I don't think Gatti will ever be able to get a belt at 147, so why would Hatton give up his title for a non-title match at a higher weight class? That said, I don't really want to see John Ruiz, Jr. fight again, except to take a beating. For some reason, he's really under my skin now.

 

[BGrif21125]

Ehhh, I was excited about Hatton-Gatti at one time, but by this point, Gatti may be one of the only fighters in the world who's put his body thru more hell than Castillo has.
I'm hoping Gatti retires, to be honest.

I'd rather Hatton stay at 140 than fight Gatti at 147.

 

[shawnrbu]

I cannot really see Floyd beating up Hatton and finishing him on cuts. Floyd had power at 130/135. He is not Roberto Duran. He did not bring his power with him as he went up in weight. Yes, he put a fierce beating on Gatti, but Gatti at 140 in 2005 was a C-level fighter. Floyd would almost certainly defeat Hatton, but it'll be with the style he used to defeat the likes of Baldomir and De La Hoya.

With all the dislike of Ricky Hatton in recent days, could you make a Top 10 p4p without Hatton in there somewhere from 8 to 10? If you could, he almost certainly has to be one of the last few guys out of the Top 10. I'm not a fan of the style he has used in his recent fights, but I admit he is tough to beat and I love the jubilant atmosphere his big fights have. Plus, I rather enjoy his post-fight interviews. A charming chap!

Edit: Also, HBO on Saturday said Castillo does not consider the first Corrales fight to be his All-Time best fight. They said a 1998 fight with Julio Alvarez in Mexico City tops the Corrales fight.

I went to http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=008837 fully expecting JLC was the winner of the Alvarez fight, but, as it turns out, he lost via 10th Round TKO. Anybody by any chance had the opportunity to have seen this fight? It sounds like something I'd love to see if it lives up to Castillo's hype!

 

[BigA27]

You think Castillo is shot but think Gatti can still fight?

Gatti is beyond shot. Hard fighting and hard living have taken a massive toll on him. Hatton-Gatti would be a public execution. Carlos Baldomir who is not that heavy a puncher out boxed and easily out fought Gatti before finishing him off.

Gatti is really quite done.


I think the Ruiz comparisons are also very very unfair. Ruiz threw a jab cross then drapped himself over his opponent. He used the clinch defensively.

Hatton jumps in the and armbars his opponent, pushing him, wrestling with him and all the while throughing power punches. He is using the clinch as an offensive weapon, forcing his opponent to fight his fight. Hatton is also tremendously strong and can push almost any opponent around while overwhelming him with his punch output. Hatton may clinch but he throws more powershots in one round than Ruiz did in most of his fights.

 

[BGrif21125]

With all the dislike of Ricky Hatton in recent days, could you make a Top 10 p4p without Hatton in there somewhere from 8 to 10? If you could, he almost certainly has to be one of the last few guys out of the Top 10.

I'm hardly a big fan of Hatton, but I'd put him in a Top 10 PFP (or no lower than 11 or 12), but a lot of that is because that part of the list is pretty weak right now IMO.

There are five elite fighters as far as I'm concerned... Mayweather, Winky, Pacquiao, Rafael Marquez, Juan Manuel Marquez... that's my Top 5, in that order.
I think there's quite a dropoff after that point, to Taylor, an old Hopkins, Calzaghe, Cotto, Hatton, etc. If Taylor were to decisively beat Pavlik (and I favor him to do so), I would consider him a first-tier PFP fighter again, and Cotto would move to the top 5-6 with one more big win.

 

[dempsey6068]

Just a question BGrif, since I do respect your opinions on boxing, but you said that most of the class at 147 would handle Hatton easily, and then don't put Margarito or any of the others in your p4p list?

I agree that Gatti is most likely shot, but I'm just a little curious to see how he does without McGirt in his corner. It did seem like a mistake to me at the time to try to change him into a pure boxer.

I really don't see the difference between Hatton and Ruiz' clinching. For one, I find both styles incredibly boring. I want to watch a boxing match, not some half-assed wrestling. Secondly, any good ref would warn Hatton - especially given his reputation - and start deducting points for his roughhousing. If you want to see a master at getting off in the clinch watch Hopkins chop away at an opponents hips and liver. Hatton just acts like a bully. The first thing you learn while being in a clinch is to go limp, don't waste your energy trying to wrestle, go back to the ropes if need be, and spin out at the last second. You can't honestly think that Hatton's clinching brought him any sort of advantage in the Castillo fight. Remaining on the inside is what gave JLC his only chance in that fight. From any sort of range, Hatton could have imposed his superior handspeed and footspeed. As for Hatton throwing power shots, I agree he does have above average power, but when you're clinching, or even in that close in general, you suffocate all your power. Hatton's style does himself and his audience a real disservice. I wonder if he wouldn't be better off hooking up with a more accomplished trainer.

As for a fight with Mayweather, that'd be a bloodbath. Mayweather probably wouldn't knock him out, but only because he wouldn't be trying to. I can't imagine the kind of counters Floyd would lay on Hatton, it'd be truly beautiful to watch. And while Mayweather might not have brought one-punch KO power up with him, don't think for a second that his punches don't sting. Why do you think Oscar stopped throwing his jab?

 

[BGrif21125]

Just a question BGrif, since I do respect your opinions on boxing, but you said that most of the class at 147 would handle Hatton easily, and then don't put Margarito or any of the others in your p4p list?

Well that's the whole point of a PFP list.... it's not about "fighter x would beat fighter y"... it's about who is the best relative to their weight class.

So take Margarito for example (who I think is overrated, fwiw).... I think Hatton is better at his natural weight class (140) than Margarito is at his (147). So I have Hatton higher than Margarito on a PFP basis. But if Hatton moved up in weight, I'm very confident Margarito would beat him. Margarito is a very big welterweight, I think he'd be too big for Hatton. Same goes for guys like Joshua Clottey and Paul Williams... they haven't done enough to place themselves above Hatton on a PFP list IMO, but if they fought him in a ring, they'd be too big, too much reach, too much power.

The types of fighters who effectively move up in weight are generally either:
a. guys who simply outgrow their weight class, to the point where they're starving themselves to make weight... Cotto is an example of this. He looks stronger at 147 because he's natural at that class. He was drained at 140 and it was sapping his strength. Trinidad at 147 was like this as well several years back, he actually looked stronger up at 154.

b. Slick boxers who use speed and not power. Someone like Mayweather can win titles in 5 different weight classes because he doesn't need to carry power with him. He wins by making guys miss.

Hatton is neither of these. He's a short fighter with short arms who tries to bully guys inside. What is going to happen when he tries to fight a physical, inside style against guys who are bigger and stronger than him, like Miguel Cotto for example? Cotto would destroy him.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Interesting interview with the always-loquacious Paulie Malignaggi. Has some interesting things to say about Hatton, which I agree with:

"I want Ricky Hatton, there's something he said the other night about he put on his two best performances against Kostya Tszyu and Jose Luis Castillo and those were his two best opponents. I want to correct him on that, those were the two biggest names on his record. At the time he fought them they were no longer what they were. The best fighter Ricky Hatton fought is Luis Collazo and Luis Collazo beat Ricky Hatton. And if you notice, that's the only young lion he got in the ring with. Everybody else was either old, a has been or couldn't fight. I don't just talk I make sense, if you're reading this right now you're saying you know what? He's kind of right, this shit is fact it's not opinion."

I have to agree. Collazo was the most "live" fighter that Hatton's ever been in the ring with, and arguably, Hatton lost the fight. In any event, it was razor close. So what does anyone REALLY think will happen if Hatton gets in the ring with a Mayweather or even a Malignaggi?