Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

BGrif21125

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For some unknown reason, I just ordered the Holyfield fight.

At some point, I need to call Comcast and have them remove the option of ordering Boxing PPVs from my account. I could probably buy a used car with the amount of money I've wasted on C-level PPV fights.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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For some unknown reason, I just ordered the Holyfield fight.

At some point, I need to call Comcast and have them remove the option of ordering Boxing PPVs from my account. I could probably buy a used car with the amount of money I've wasted on C-level PPV fights.
I've got the same affliction, but fortunately I resisted this one. I guess I'm glad I did. Sounded like a fairly uninspiring fight. And at least now we're spared (at least I assume we are) the spectacle of Holyfield getting his head removed from his body by Wladimir Klitschko. I wouldn't give Ibragimov much chance against Klitschko either. But it could at least be an interesting fight for a while. Ibragimov is a tricky boxer who makes up in guts what he lacks in punching power. I think he could give Klitschko some trouble. But I'd expect Klitschko to solve the puzzle by the seventh or eighth round and either end the fight with a knockout, or go on to win a definitive decision.
 

BGrif21125

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I heard Ibragimov won a boring lopsided decision. And the undercard fight was really good. Any thoughts?
I've got the same affliction, but fortunately I resisted this one. I guess I'm glad I did. Sounded like a fairly uninspiring fight.
It was a very uneventful fight.

Basically, I can sum it up this way, Ibragimov would throw a 1-2 about every 45 seconds, while Evander spent every round doing absolutely NOTHING. Once a round, Evander would charge in, and Ibragimov would nail him with a counter left. That was it, for 12 rounds. I scored it 10 rounds to 2 for Ibragimov.

The most disturbing event of the night was during the postfight interiview, when Evander said he is NOT retiring.

At this point, all 50 states need to step in and ban Holyfield from fighting.

Gene, I agree with you. Ibragimov could be tricky for Wlad for a few rounds, but eventually Wlad is too big, too strong, and too skilled. Ibragimov could make a great cruiserweight if he were ~15 pounds lighter, but he can't compete with Wlad.
 

ElUno20

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Once again, the Baby Bull beats his opponent into submission. This kid is amazing. He has to be top 3 combination punchers in the sport. And you'd never know it by looking at him. He's not toned at all but his conditioning is world class. I'm praying Manny is stupid enough to fight him but I know his people will have him take the safer fight.
 

BGrif21125

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I'm praying Manny is stupid enough to fight him but I know his people will have him take the safer fight.
If Pacquiao does move up to 135, I think he's going to have a lot of trouble. Pacquiao is a dynamic fighter, but he doesn't have the type of style that lends itself to moving up effectively in weight.

The fighters who win titles in 3 or 4 divisions are usually great technical boxers who can survive against bigger guys because their defense and movement is so good. Mayweather is obviously the current poster child for this.

Pacquiao is just the opposite, he has a high contact style, which means as he moves up, his punches will have less effect, and the punches he has to absorb will be harder and harder.

Pacquiao fans will probably argue that he's already proven he can win titles in multiple weight classes, but the big names on his resume (Morales, Barrera) were guys who had also moved up from lower weights. Manny's never had to face a top-notch natural 130 or 135 pounder.

I think Juan Diaz and/or Joel Casamayor would be very difficult matchups for Pacquiao.

David Diaz is the only lightweight champ who I can't see beating Pacquiao. David is a tough guy, but he's very limited. He barely beat the rotting corpse of Erik Morales back in August. In fact, I scored that fight for Morales.

(BTW, I was glad to see HBO put together a segment at the end of the telecast about Barrera and Morales. The featherweight division has really carried HBO for most of the decade.)
 

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I think Juan Diaz and/or Joel Casamayor would be very difficult matchups for Pacquiao.

David Diaz is the only lightweight champ who I can't see beating Pacquiao. David is a tough guy, but he's very limited. He barely beat the rotting corpse of Erik Morales back in August. In fact, I scored that fight for Morales.

(BTW, I was glad to see HBO put together a segment at the end of the telecast about Barrera and Morales. The featherweight division has really carried HBO for most of the decade.)
You're right that D.Diaz is the easiest credible fight for Pacquiao at 135, so it's no accident that that's what Arum is talking about. But in a way, I can't blame him. I think it's smart to take an "easy" fight to see how well Pac's power translates to 135. He's proven to be a destructive force at 130. I personally think he'll be pretty much the same at 135. And if so, I think Pacquiao dismantles Juan Diaz.

The Baby Bull has a style that is, as they say, "made to order" for Pacquiao. He'll be right there to be hit, and Pacquiao, if anything, throws almost as many punches as the the whirlwind Diaz -- but they are much harder punches. I see an entertaining, action-packed fight but a short fight. I think Diaz is able to rattle Pacquiao a couple of times in the first or second round. But it'll only make Pacquiao mad and by the third I see "The Baby Bull" on his ass at least once. And by the fourth, I see the ref stepping in and calling a halt.

Diaz is a terrific young fighter and a great story, but Pacquiao is still a devastating force in his prime and I don't think Diaz has the boxing skills or defense to keep Pacquiao from eating him alive.
 

ElUno20

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I don't think Diaz has the boxing skills or defense to keep Pacquiao from eating him alive.
You can't throw with full power when you are being backed up and boxing inside. Manny's not skilled enough to put together clean, technical combinations that are more effective in those situations. Unless Manny keeps Juan at a distance with footwork and jab. I just don't see it. I also don't see his power translating to 135 against naturally bigger guys.

At 34 JMM is a perfect Manny opponent, old. I'd take that fight before moving up to 135.
 

BGrif21125

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Here's the real basis for why I think a move by Pacquiao to 135 will not be overly successful....

On paper, a move from 130 to 135 doesn't seem like that big of a deal, because after all, it's only 5 pounds. But when you look further into it, you'll see that making this move is actually much more than 5 pounds, because of the way these 2 divisions are currently constituted.

Pacquiao has been beating guys left and right at 130, but the opponents he's been facing haven't been true 130 pounders. In fact, they're all fighters similar to Pacquiao, in that they're former bantamweights and featherweights who have moved up.

Morales- fought at 122, 126, and 130, also went 0-2 at 135
Barrera- 122, 126, 130
Hector Velazquez- was natural at that weight, but has 11 losses on his record, it was just a "stay active" fight for Manny
Jorge Solis- fought mostly at 126. Two notable fights at 130 (Soto being the other notable opponent).
Oscar Larios- fought mostly at 122. In fact, in his fight previous to facing Manny, he fought Israel Vasquez at 122 and got TKO'd in 3 rounds. Moved up 8 pounds to face Pacquiao and went the distance.

I'm not criticizing Manny's level of competition, because I can't criticize anyone who's fought Morales and Barrera 5 times and went 4-1. I'm just pointing out that these guys were mostly blown-up 122 or 126 pounders. In all these fights, Manny was never at a natural size disadvantage. Therefore, it's not surprising that his relentess high-contact style would be effective.

135 is a different story.

Casamayor has never fought below 130. He's also a southpaw with a slick style, and his chin has survived 3 fights with Corrales (a very big puncher), and 1 with Castillo. So those factors add up to make him a difficult opponent.

The Diazs each started their careers in the 140-142 range, and now drain themselves down to 135 to compete there. If you look at them, they have a completely different body type than the guys who have been populating 126 or 130. As I said before, David Diaz is so limited skills-wise that I don't think any size advantage would be enough for him to beat Pacquiao.
But if Pacquiao were to face Juan Diaz, I think it would surprise people just how much bigger Diaz would appear in the ring. And the style matchup would probably lead to a very entertaining all-out brawl, at which point Manny would find himself for the first time trading punches with a bigger opponent.

I'm not trying to come off as anti-Pacquiao, because I love watching him fight. But history tells us that success over multiple weight classes is usually reserved for guys who fight nothing like Manny. Duran is the only real straight-ahead "puncher" who I can think of off the top of my head who won a bunch of different titles.
 

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Here's the real basis for why I think a move by Pacquiao to 135 will not be overly successful....

On paper, a move from 130 to 135 doesn't seem like that big of a deal, because after all, it's only 5 pounds. But when you look further into it, you'll see that making this move is actually much more than 5 pounds, because of the way these 2 divisions are currently constituted.

Pacquiao has been beating guys left and right at 130, but the opponents he's been facing haven't been true 130 pounders. In fact, they're all fighters similar to Pacquiao, in that they're former bantamweights and featherweights who have moved up.

Morales- fought at 122, 126, and 130, also went 0-2 at 135
Barrera- 122, 126, 130
Hector Velazquez- was natural at that weight, but has 11 losses on his record, it was just a "stay active" fight for Manny
Jorge Solis- fought mostly at 126. Two notable fights at 130 (Soto being the other notable opponent).
Oscar Larios- fought mostly at 122. In fact, in his fight previous to facing Manny, he fought Israel Vasquez at 122 and got TKO'd in 3 rounds. Moved up 8 pounds to face Pacquiao and went the distance.

I'm not criticizing Manny's level of competition, because I can't criticize anyone who's fought Morales and Barrera 5 times and went 4-1. I'm just pointing out that these guys were mostly blown-up 122 or 126 pounders. In all these fights, Manny was never at a natural size disadvantage. Therefore, it's not surprising that his relentess high-contact style would be effective.

135 is a different story.

Casamayor has never fought below 130. He's also a southpaw with a slick style, and his chin has survived 3 fights with Corrales (a very big puncher), and 1 with Castillo. So those factors add up to make him a difficult opponent.

The Diazs each started their careers in the 140-142 range, and now drain themselves down to 135 to compete there. If you look at them, they have a completely different body type than the guys who have been populating 126 or 130. As I said before, David Diaz is so limited skills-wise that I don't think any size advantage would be enough for him to beat Pacquiao.
But if Pacquiao were to face Juan Diaz, I think it would surprise people just how much bigger Diaz would appear in the ring. And the style matchup would probably lead to a very entertaining all-out brawl, at which point Manny would find himself for the first time trading punches with a bigger opponent.

I'm not trying to come off as anti-Pacquiao, because I love watching him fight. But history tells us that success over multiple weight classes is usually reserved for guys who fight nothing like Manny. Duran is the only real straight-ahead "puncher" who I can think of off the top of my head who won a bunch of different titles.

I agree with every single thing you wrote above.......but would you bet against Pacquiao fighting at 135? Would you not be drooling to see him fight there?

I have had this debate with folks about a number of fighters. I am far more frustrated by fighters who won't go up or down 4-8 lbs. to get where the talent is than fighters who weight themselves into tougher matchups.

And Casamayor is tough as all hell......but lord is he a dumb, dumb, dumb human being. He is on that all-too-long list of fighters who could have been far, far greater than they were but dumbassed their way out of greatness. I loved him when he first started breaking through, but we can throw him onto a pile of fighters that started back when Little Red Lopez was on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
 

BGrif21125

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Would you not be drooling to see him fight there?

I have had this debate with folks about a number of fighters. I am far more frustrated by fighters who won't go up or down 4-8 lbs. to get where the talent is than fighters who weight themselves into tougher matchups.
But that's the thing.... 130 is MUCH more talented than 135 is right now. If 130 was mediocre, and 135 had a bunch of star fighters, I would be absolutely ecstatic that a fighter of Pacquiao's caliber would be moving up to challenge guys in a new weight class.

But here, it's just the opposite. Most people would argue that 130 is the second most talented division in the entire sport right now, trailing only the welterweights at 147. If Pacquiao does move up to 135, he's moving away from all the biggest fights.

If he stays at 130, his most likely fight will be a rematch with Juan Manuel Marquez. Marquez is considered by just about everyone to be either the 3rd or 4th best fighter in the world pound-for-pound. Most people rank Manny 2nd PFP, which means a Pacquiao-Marquez rematch is the single biggest potential fight in the entire sport in terms of skill level. They fought to a draw in 2003, and it was an absolute classic, one of the 10 best fights of the decade so far. In other words, it was the type of fight that begs for a rematch.

Marquez is scheduled to fight November 3rd. If he were to get upset in that fight and lose, Pacquiao would still be able to find very viable opponents at 130. On November 17, there's a fight on HBO between Humberto Soto and Joan Guzman, who are the two next best guys at 130 and are both very talented. I have been touting Soto as the most underrated fighter in boxing for awhile now, he's really really good.

The guys at 135 are not as talented IMO as the fighters at 130. If one of 135 pound beltholders were to beat Manny, it would mostly be because they were just too big and strong, not necessarily more skilled.

That's why I'm against the idea of him moving up in weight. The practical side of me doesn't like it because I'm skeptical of how effective he can be, and the fan side of me doesn't like it because it will rob us of the chance to see some really big fights.

(I should add 2 things:
1. In no way do I think this potential move is motivated by any reluctance on Pacquiao's part to take on tough opponents. He is afraid of no one. I just think he's trying to decide if he really wants to kill himself to make the lower weight anymore, or take the easier route of only getting down to 135.

2. This could also just be a negotiating ploy. Pacquiao could just be making it seem like he has other options, and if Marquez is desparate enough for the fight at 130, maybe he'll agree to give Pacquiao a bigger share of the purse to get it done. )
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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For anyone (including me) who didn't buy the Ibragimov-Holyfield fight and is curious as to how it went down, it's just been announced that ESPN Classic will air the replay broadcast Saturday on October 20, 2007 at 8 pm, ET.

ALSO:

According to Kelly Pavlik's hometown paper, his Jan. 26 fight opponent at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City will be John Duddy. Duddy's a tough customer, but this should be an easy payday for Pavlik. I wouldn't be surprised to see him put an end to Duddy by the third or fourth round. The Irish fighter leads with his chin, generally not a good idea against someone with Pavlik's piledriver punching power.

As a spectacle, however, this should be interesting. between the 5,000 or so Youngstown partisans making the trip to AC, and Duddy's large and rabid east Coast Irish constituency, the Boarwalk Hall should be explosive, at least until Pavlik lands his first big shot on Duddy's mug.
 

ElUno20

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I've read that Joe wants to fight Pavlik next year. Looks like his 2008 is shaping up.
 

shawnrbu

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Mora must have been bummed about not getting the Pavlik fight because he fought to a 10 Round Draw tonight against Elvin Ayala. Curiosly, one of the judges scored it 99-91 in favor of Mora.

In the main event, Alfonso Gomez won a hard fought action fight against Ben Tackie via UD.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Mora must have been bummed about not getting the Pavlik fight because he fought to a 10 Round Draw tonight against Elvin Ayala. Curiosly, one of the judges scored it 99-91 in favor of Mora.

In the main event, Alfonso Gomez won a hard fought action fight against Ben Tackie via UD.
I was only able to watch the first two rounds of the Mora fight. At that point, Ayala was clearly winning. More aggressive, higher punch volume, cleaner shots landing. So right there I don't see how a 99-91 (9 rounds to 1) score is possible.
 

BGrif21125

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A couple weeks of down time coming up, but I'm really excited about the first few weeks of November.

First week of Nov. has Chambers-Brock, Calzaghe-Kessler, Marquez-Juarez, and the Contender final, all for free.

Then the next week has Cotto-Mosley (which will be worth every penny on PPV) and the Mormeck-Haye fight for free.

Then the Soto-Guzman fight the following week.

If those fights are all worth it, I won't feel as guilty when I inevitably break down and order Vargas-Mayorga on PPV.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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A Manlia newspaper is apparently reporting that negotiations are underway for a Pacquiao-Marquez rematch to take place in the first quarter if 2008. I hope that's true. That's the fight that matters the most for both men. All Marquez needs is to avoid getting caught by a lucky punch from Rocky Juarez on Nov. 3.

Also, I sure didn't watch it, but I heard that Floyd Mayweather got voted off "Dancing With the Stars" last night, so anyone worried that he would be distracted from his preparations for the Ricky Hatton fight can relax.
 

inter tatters

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Amir Khan has signed up to face Graham Earl in Bolton UK on Dec 8 - Khan's Birthday.

While that may not seem like big news for worldwide boxing, it's great news for British fans. Graham Earl absolutely HATES Khan with a passion, as he is, statistically speaking, the best Lightweight in the Country (he held an alphabet World Title until he was beaten by Michael Katsidis last year) and has been overlooked by the whole Khan-Mania going on over here. He has almost constantly taunted Khan to prove he is better than him. He is a come forward fighter who hits hard and it should be a cracker for us Brits! :rolling:
 

BGrif21125

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Amir Khan has signed up to face Graham Earl in Bolton UK on Dec 8 - Khan's Birthday.

While that may not seem like big news for worldwide boxing, it's great news for British fans.
It's too bad that the business side of the sport prevents different promoters from working together on a regular basis.

This would have been a perfect undercard fight for Mayweather-Hatton. That fight is on the exact same day, and there will thousands and thousands of British fans in Vegas.

But Khan is a Frank Warren fighter, so obviously he's not going to be an undercard attraction on a Golden Boy-sponsored card. Too bad.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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It's too bad that the business side of the sport prevents different promoters from working together on a regular basis.

This would have been a perfect undercard fight for Mayweather-Hatton. That fight is on the exact same day, and there will thousands and thousands of British fans in Vegas.

But Khan is a Frank Warren fighter, so obviously he's not going to be an undercard attraction on a Golden Boy-sponsored card. Too bad.
I don't know the plans for televising the Mayweather-Hatton fight in Great Britain, but I have to assume that this is basically counterprogramming by Warren. I doubt that Warren would have wanted to work with GBP even if given the opportunity.

But I also have to wonder if he's not shooting himself in the foot somewhat. HBO has been very interested in Khan, but how happy could they be to have him fighting on the same date as their second-biggest PPV of the year. Maybe it doesn't make any difference, I'm really not sure of HBO's interest in the British telecast.

Still, this is a big FU from Warren to Ricky Hatton, specifically, with whom he had a rather famous falling out.
 

BGrif21125

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I don't know the plans for televising the Mayweather-Hatton fight in Great Britain, but I have to assume that this is basically counterprogramming by Warren. I doubt that Warren would have wanted to work with GBP even if given the opportunity.

But I also have to wonder if he's not shooting himself in the foot somewhat. HBO has been very interested in Khan, but how happy could they be to have him fighting on the same date as their second-biggest PPV of the year. Maybe it doesn't make any difference, I'm really not sure of HBO's interest in the British telecast.

Still, this is a big FU from Warren to Ricky Hatton, specifically, with whom he had a rather famous falling out.
I believe the Hatton fight is being shown live in the UK on Sky PPV. Time-wise, these fights wouldn't be going head-to-head, since I assume the Khan fight would be on in primetime in the UK, whereas the Hatton fight would start about 4 am UK time, 11pm EDT.

I agree with you that he may be shooting himself in the foot here. I can't see any downside to putting his most prized prospect on a card that will get him tons of exposure, both in the US and UK. Also, even if they put Khan in the ring with a pushover opponent, it'd be a good experience for him to fight in front of a big Vegas crowd on the undercard of a big event.

And HBO has shown in the past that they're willing to commit to a big UK star (Prince Hamed) so you would think it would benefit Warren to keep a connection between Khan and HBO.

I guess part of my motivation in complaining about this is because the Floyd-Hatton undercard looks pretty empty right now. In fact, I haven't heard any names mentioned at all. If that night already had a great undercard locked up (like the Cotto-Mosley one), then I wouldn't really care about this.

I'm just worried right now that the PPV could end being a mediocre one.... bad undercard with a lopsided main event.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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I guess part of my motivation in complaining about this is because the Floyd-Hatton undercard looks pretty empty right now. In fact, I haven't heard any names mentioned at all. If that night already had a great undercard locked up (like the Cotto-Mosley one), then I wouldn't really care about this.

I'm just worried right now that the PPV could end being a mediocre one.... bad undercard with a lopsided main event.
The only thing I've read about it is that Jeff Lacy will make his return on the Hatton-Mayweather undercard, most likely against Peter Manfredo. That's a pretty good undercard bout, if it comes together. We get to see if Lacy (who recently signed with Golden Boy) has anything left -- or if Manfredo has anything at all. They've both been beaten in one-sided fights bu Joe Calzaghe, but I really don't count Manfredo's loss for much, as it was one of the most premature stoppages I've ever seen.
 

inter tatters

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Amir Khan is currently under contract to have all his fights broadcast on ITV, which is a terrestrial TV channel in the UK, therefore his fight's can't be broadcast on Sky. Not sure whether this a blatant attempt by ITV to sabotage Sky's coverage of Hatton's fight, but they would be a different times anyway with ITV typically running Khan fights at 22.30 UK time, whereas Hatton won't be on until 3am at the earliest.

Of course Khan might not be around to fight, as he is currently up in Court after he ran a red light, 20mph over the speed limit in the wrong lane of traffic, and hit a pedestrian crossing the road legally, breaking both the Man's legs. He is up for dangerous driving and the worst part for him is that it was all captured on CCTV. Dangerous driving normally carries at least a 6 month jail term.

ITV also had a contract with Joe Calzaghe, but I don't know what channel his fight with Kessler is going to be on, as it hasn't been mentioned by either ITV or Sky. I guess it may have been nicked by Setanta who broadcast Hatton's last fight against Castillo and also had Barrera-Pacqiao last week. Not that I care of course as I'm going to be in Millenium Stadium on that night anyway! :banana:

BTW, not sure if you guys can get it, but we had a Fight of the Year contender in Doncaster on Friday Night! Carl Johanneson and Michael Gomez went at it for 6 incredibly brutal rounds for the British Super-Featherweight Title, until Johanneson flattened Gomez and, although Gomez got up, he nailed him with another crushing right and the Ref stopped it. Gomez has called the decision to stop the fight 'disgusting' and actually started pushing the Ref and cursing him, but it looked fair enough to me as he looked out on his feet when the right crunched him.
 

BGrif21125

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Of course Khan might not be around to fight, as he is currently up in Court after he ran a red light, 20mph over the speed limit in the wrong lane of traffic, and hit a pedestrian crossing the road legally, breaking both the Man's legs. He is up for dangerous driving and the worst part for him is that it was all captured on CCTV. Dangerous driving normally carries at least a 6 month jail term.
Wow, I didn't realize this. Didn't Hamed go to prison for almost the exact same thing?

Not that I care of course as I'm going to be in Millenium Stadium on that night anyway! :)
That should be an awesome event. If you're bringing a camera, make sure to post some pics here. Have you heard anything about how many tickets they've sold so far? Last I read it was just over 30K...
 

inter tatters

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Wow, I didn't realize this. Didn't Hamed go to prison for almost the exact same thing?

That should be an awesome event. If you're bringing a camera, make sure to post some pics here. Have you heard anything about how many tickets they've sold so far? Last I read it was just over 30K...
Hamed was slightly different, in that he was showing off his new $500,000 car to a friend, overtook another car at 90mph on a blind rise (I drive on the road regularly as it's only 5 miles from my house, and you slow down on the rise not overtake) and hit an on-coming car head on, breaking nearly every bone in the driver of the other car's body. He got 15 months for Dangerous Driving and also, more seriously, leaving the scene of the accident as he was only a mile from his home and he ran there. He was out, on licence and tagged, after only 16 weeks though, which has led to a massive out-cry in Britain.

Khan has admitted speeding and jumping a red light, but he denies Dangerous Driving. I would think driving in the wrong lane just to get in front of standing traffic, that was standing for a reason as pedestrians were crossing, and then hitting a pedestrian was a little more serious than speeding/red-light jumping. I've got a feeling he'll get convicted of 'Reckless', rather than 'Dangerous' Driving and he'll probably get a suspended sentence, Community Work and a large fine.

CLICK HERE for the latest on the case

I'll be taking a camera and, hopefully, I'll get some decent pictures. I've been to the Millenium Stadium before, as I'm a big Rugby fan, and it's a magnificent, noisy Arena when the roof is open, should be even louder with the roof closed! :c070:

As for the tickets, the last 'official' report was that 30,000 had been sold, but that was on September 10th and was still 2 months out from the fight. Frank Warren still thinks it's possible that Ali-Spinks' indoor record of 63,500 can be beaten and I wouldn't be surprised if it is, the Millenium Stadium holds 75,000, Calzaghe has a huge fan base and is fighting in his home City. What I can say for certain, is that all the cheapest ($80) seats have sold out, as have the $300 seats, there are still a few at $100, $150 (which is where I'm sitting) and $200, plus a few in the 'Super' seats near ringside, according to the ticket office website.
 

BGrif21125

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Taylor exercises his contractual right to an immediate rematch with Pavlik. Personally, I think this is bad move by Taylor. When a fighter gets knocked out, they almost never win an immediate rematch, unless the first fight was a fluke where the favorite came in out of shape or overconfident (example: Lewis-Rahman).

Taylor needs to take a step back and let someone else make a dent in Pavlik's confidence. I know Taylor's team has been advising him to not take the rematch.

Link
 

Naehring11

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Taylor exercises his contractual right to an immediate rematch with Pavlik. Personally, I think this is bad move by Taylor. When a fighter gets knocked out, they almost never win an immediate rematch, unless the first fight was a fluke where the favorite came in out of shape or overconfident (example: Lewis-Rahman).

Taylor needs to take a step back and let someone else make a dent in Pavlik's confidence. I know Taylor's team has been advising him to not take the rematch.

Link

This is suprising. I thought Taylor's people would have talked him out of the rematch, at least immediately. I think Pavlik will be even stronger at 166 and it will be a greater benefit to him than Taylor. It should still be another very exciting fight.

I doubt Steward will be in Taylor's corner for this one. In both of his last fights Steward seemed to be pretty frustrated.
 

BarrettNo17

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This is suprising. I thought Taylor's people would have talked him out of the rematch, at least immediately. I think Pavlik will be even stronger at 166 and it will be a greater benefit to him than Taylor. It should still be another very exciting fight.

I doubt Steward will be in Taylor's corner for this one. In both of his last fights Steward seemed to be pretty frustrated.

Likewise, i'm surprised that JT took the rematch. Taylors "name quality" scalps were guys that boxed, kept their heads and feet moving, and he was able to outpoint them (debatable as the Hopkins and Wright fights are, they could have gone either way.) Since then, he has outpointed undersized fighters whom he should have knocked out, and then he ran into the slugger from Youngstown, who picked himself up off the canvas, grabbed his lunch pail and went back to work.

I have a feeling Taylor has doubts in his head about standing in the middle of the ring and trading with a quality opponent. The rematch will be like Barrera/Juarez II, with Taylor playing the role of MAB, hanging back, refusing to engage in battles in the center. We all knows what happens when Taylor is pinned, and it's not pretty. I'll give him the fact that it was the first time in his life he was seriously in trouble, but he got cooked.

I'll take Taylor by UD in a bore-fest for the rematch, unless Pavlik can walk through the jab and bring it, Mickey Ward style.

As a Post Script, i lost alot of respect for Manny Steward during that run up and fight, all the "Pavlik is junk, he's a club fighter" trash. The best fighter is a concerned fighter, not a scared one, not an overly confident one. When JT put Pavlik down, he had a look on his face like he had just finished an 8 hour shift at Walgreens, as if there was no contest. Boy, was he wrong.
 

BGrif21125

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Khan in the clear:
British boxer Amir Khan was found guilty Tuesday of careless driving, banned from the road for six months and fined $2,050.

Khan was cleared by a jury of dangerous driving. He was accused of running a red light and knocking down a pedestrian last year.

Khan won a silver medal in the lightweight division at the 2004 Athens Olympics. He successfully defended his Commonwealth lightweight title on Oct. 6, stopping Scott Lawton in the fourth round for his 14th straight victory.
 

Naehring11

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As a Post Script, i lost alot of respect for Manny Steward during that run up and fight, all the "Pavlik is junk, he's a club fighter" trash. The best fighter is a concerned fighter, not a scared one, not an overly confident one. When JT put Pavlik down, he had a look on his face like he had just finished an 8 hour shift at Walgreens, as if there was no contest. Boy, was he wrong.

i've never been a big fan of Manny. He will only train tall fighters, giving him a big advantage right out of the gate and he is viewed as a great trainer. He is very good and has worked wonders with Wlad. So I'll give him credit for that.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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i've never been a big fan of Manny. He will only train tall fighters, giving him a big advantage right out of the gate and he is viewed as a great trainer. He is very good and has worked wonders with Wlad. So I'll give him credit for that.
He did a great job with Lennox Lewis, too. Basically, he knows how to take a tall heavyweight and sell him on "fighting tall." When you watch a lot of the tall heavies, it's amazing how many of them give up their height (including the pre-Manny Wlad K.), probably because they're only looking for big knockouts. Steward gets them to buy into the program of using a long jab to set up a right hand and tying up opponents to keep them from getting inside.

Steward is a good trainer, though he admittedly knows how to hype himself which is why he's also probably a bit overrated. Notice that whenever one of his fighters loses, it's all because he didn't follow Steward's instructions. When one wins, it's because he stuck to the game plan. Even in his HBO commentary, he always makes a point of letting us know how he predicted everything in advance -- even if he didn't. In which case he goes to the "I have to be objective in my role as a commentator and didn't want to seem to be taking sides" card.

Still, I think he's a good commentator as well. I have learned some things about boxing from listening to him and that's what I want from a TV analyst in any sport. He's no Roy Jones though. t seemed like every fight on HBO that he called, Roy would announce that X was about to happen, and within the next few minutes, it did. The guy had a great boxing mind, even if his ego could've KO'ed Manny Steward's ego in one round.
 

BGrif21125

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Basically, he knows how to take a tall heavyweight and sell him on "fighting tall."
Exactly. If you're a heavyweight and you're 6'5" or 6'6", then Steward is your guy. He's really perfected that style, that's completely built on the jab and straight right, and then clinching and holding whenever the opponent comes in close. I'd say Steward is definitely the premier heavyweight trainer.

It's in the lower weights where he's overrated. His two most famous non-heavyweight clients this decade are Jermain Taylor and Naseem Hamed, and both of them regressed under Steward's watch. Now, to be fair, both of those guys may have been headed for a downfall no matter what, but Steward definitely didn't seem to help them much either.

Still, I think he's a good commentator as well. I have learned some things about boxing from listening to him and that's what I want from a TV analyst in any sport. He's no Roy Jones though. t seemed like every fight on HBO that he called, Roy would announce that X was about to happen, and within the next few minutes, it did. The guy had a great boxing mind, even if his ego could've KO'ed Manny Steward's ego in one round.
Ya, I agree totally with this. Jones was a very very good announcer. I was pissed to see him go, although I can understand why he's probably not the easiest guy to have as an employee. It didn't help his case that he'd pull the "You've never fought, therefore you have no clue what you're talking about" card whenever Merchant disagreed with him.
Steward is the best "3rd guy" they have in the booth right now, he's not as good as Jones, but he still brings a lot to the table.

Lennox Lewis is a bright guy, but he may be the worst commentator I have ever heard in all of professional sports.
 

BarrettNo17

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Lennox Lewis is a bright guy, but he may be the worst commentator I have ever heard in all of professional sports.

Lennox is insightful, but his tounge fails him. By the time he's done saying what he's trying to say, the action he is talking about is a memory. He doesn't have the spur of the moment, right from the brain to the tounge insight, like Manny, RJJr, or Teddy.
 

BGrif21125

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1. HBO announced that Floyd-Oscar actually generated 2.4 million PPV buys, not 2.1 as originally reported. So it beat the previous non-heavyweight record (Oscar-Trinidad) by over a million buys, and beat the all-time record (Tyson-Holyfield II) by about a half million.
I'm interested to see how Cotto-Mosley and Floyd-Hatton do in the next couple months.

2. The World Amateur Championships are going on right now in Chicago. Providence's Demetrius Andrade (the #1 American welterweight) won his first round bout yesterday.

3. Anyone here going to either the Contender Finals in Boston or Cotto-Mosley at MSG?
 

BGrif21125

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Paul Williams and Kermit Cintron have agreed to fight in February on HBO. That's a great matchup.

The welterweight division should be much clearer a few months from now. Right now there's a bunch of guys who are on about the same level. After the next few months, the Mayweather/Hatton winner, the Cotto/Mosley winner, and the Cintron/Williams winner will be the clear top 3 and they'll have no real excuse not to try to fight one another.
 

ElUno20

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I don't see how anyone with a brain would fight Paul Williams at 147. If it ever emerges, Floyd better stay way clear of that fight.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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I don't see how anyone with a brain would fight Paul Williams at 147. If it ever emerges, Floyd better stay way clear of that fight.
Actually, I think Cintron's going to ice him. Williams' only defense is his offense and while his nonstop punching can be very hard to deal with, he doesn't throw with a lot of power. I see Cintron losing the first several rounds on points, but finally connecting with Williams' chin and putting his lights out. Floyd would never fight Williams anyway, but I don't think he'll have to.
 

BGrif21125

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Floyd would never fight Williams anyway, but I don't think he'll have to.
This is why I really want Williams to win. If Williams beats Cintron, there's no way Floyd would ever fight him, he'd never fight someone who had that outrageous of a height/reach advantage.

And since he'd want no part of Williams, he'd basically be forced to fight the winner of Cotto-Mosley (I'm picking Cotto), and that's the fight that I really want to see.
 

ElUno20

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Don't underrate Williams' chin. He takes some bombs in his fights and walks right through them.
 

inter tatters

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Just a quote to answer BGriff's query about the crowd size for Calzaghe-Kessler on Saturday Night...
Over 50,000 are expected to attend, but the crowd is expected to fall short of the world record 63,350 who watched Muhammad Ali's rematch with Leon Spinks at the New Orleans Superdome in 1978.
It's a shame it won't break the record, but it should still be an awesome spectacle. Just hope the fight lives up to it's billing! ;)
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Just a quote to answer BGriff's query about the crowd size for Calzaghe-Kessler on Saturday Night...

It's a shame it won't break the record, but it should still be an awesome spectacle. Just hope the fight lives up to it's billing! ;)
I think that in a fight like this, whatever happens, it will be exciting. These two guys aren't a pair of passive counterpunchers. However long it lasts, it should be an action fight betwen two highly skilled boxer-punchers. Kind of a 168-pound version of Marquez-Vasquez. Even if it ends in a first round knockout, well, who would expect that? That would be an amazing event in itself.

Good news, for American TV boxing viewers anyway, is that this fight airs at 9 pm Eastern with no undercard. The JM Marquez-Rocky Juarez fight on Showtime is the second fight on a two-fight program that starts at 10. So even without a DVR, we should be able to watch both fights live as they happen.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Just a quote to answer BGriff's query about the crowd size for Calzaghe-Kessler on Saturday Night...

It's a shame it won't break the record, but it should still be an awesome spectacle. Just hope the fight lives up to it's billing! ;)
Do you know how someone in the UK without a ticket (or a TV) will watch this fight?

Easier said than done but I'm trying to find a bar to watch it.
 

Vinho Tinto

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1. HBO announced that Floyd-Oscar actually generated 2.4 million PPV buys, not 2.1 as originally reported. So it beat the previous non-heavyweight record (Oscar-Trinidad) by over a million buys, and beat the all-time record (Tyson-Holyfield II) by about a half million.
I'm interested to see how Cotto-Mosley and Floyd-Hatton do in the next couple months.
Dave Metzler mentioned that HBO is on its way to having the biggest PPV year ever. It's going to surpass anything pro wrestling or UFC has ever done.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Dave Metzler mentioned that HBO is on its way to having the biggest PPV year ever. It's going to surpass anything pro wrestling or UFC has ever done.
That's mainly due to DLH-Mayweather, of course. Cotto-Judah reportedly did about 225,000. Pac-MAB 2 did about 350,000, I think. The big surprise to me was Hopkins-Wright pulling in 305,000. But anyway, without the Big Fight, this would probably be about an average year for HBO. Maybe even down a bit because it seems like (without my going back to count), they've been doing fewer PPV shows this year.

I expect Cotto-Mosely to do only a bit better than the Judah fight. I'd predict somewhere between 300 and 325 K. Respectable but nothing special. PBF v. Hatton should do much better, but I don;t think it will approach the numbers for the May fight. In fact, I'd be shockedif it broke 1 million. I'm gonna say it'll do in the 500-600 K range.

So while I think that, to an extent, "boxing is back," the PPV numbers still have a ways to go before they start outdoing the UFC on a regular basis. (And for anyone not familiar with my posts, I am DEFINITELY a boxing over UFC guy -- kind of the way I'm a Red Sox over Devil Rays guy.)
 

cjdmadcow

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Do you know how someone in the UK without a ticket (or a TV) will watch this fight?

Easier said than done but I'm trying to find a bar to watch it.
I belive it's being shown at the Sports Cafe in Haymarket but I'd call them to make sure you'll get the full commentary etc and it's not just on the screens. I was planning to go there last Monday night for Game 5 of the World Series. Didn't work out...fortunately.

http://www.thesportscafe.net/locationdetail.cfm?venueID=4

It's likely that there will be an entrance fee of £5 for a Saturday night and it could prove to be quite an expensive evening as the fight doesn't start till around 1am.

I'll be watching it at home.

CJD
 

Spacemans Bong

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I belive it's being shown at the Sports Cafe in Haymarket but I'd call them to make sure you'll get the full commentary etc and it's not just on the screens. I was planning to go there last Monday night for Game 5 of the World Series. Didn't work out...fortunately.

http://www.thesportscafe.net/locationdetail.cfm?venueID=4

It's likely that there will be an entrance fee of £5 for a Saturday night and it could prove to be quite an expensive evening as the fight doesn't start till around 1am.

I'll be watching it at home.

CJD
No way I'm going there. I watched part of Game 3 there and it was one of the most unpleasant experiences I have ever had in a bar, culminating in me getting thrown out by a bouncer who likely didn't understand my accent. I wasn't going to stay much longer anyway.

I sent an email to some Welsh friends, so maybe some Welsh bar is showing it.
 

inter tatters

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With the Calzaghe fight being on Setanta Sports, it's going to be difficult to find a 'Regular' Bar with the Setanta package. Most of them have to spend a fortune on the Sky Sports' 'Public House Licence' (circa £4000 per year) and aren't willing to splash out on Setanta's fees too. Good luck finding somewhere to watch it anyway.

I'm off to Cardiff tomorrow night, stopping at a Mate's thankfully as getting a Hotel in Central Cardiff is a nightmare apparently, can't wait! :lol: