Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

BGrif21125

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I would agree with most of those. I'd give KO of the year to Darnell Wilson for his KO of Nwodo.
Ya, I thought it was a little too much to give both the upset of the year and KO of the year to Donaire-Darchinyan. I would have given KO of the year to Pavlik-Taylor (even though it was technically a TKO). Wilson-Nwodo is a good one as well.

No Holyfield for comeback of the year??? :buddy:
I believe he won Corpse of the Year, narrowly beating out Gatti, Morales, and Castillo.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Dave Metzler on Mayweather-Hatton PPV #'s:

In what has to be considered a huge disappointment, although it is being
presented very differently to the public, the Floyd Mayweather vs. Ricky
Hatton match only ended up doing a first estimate of 850,000 domestic
buys (that doesn't include worldwide numbers--which would put it above
1.1 million-and perhaps as high as 1.8 million as there was a report from
Sky in the U.K. claiming 900,000 U.K. buys for a show that started at 5
a.m., although the early reports were that it did 3 million pounds in
U.K. PPV revenue and those two numbers don't add up) and $47 million in
total PPV revenue. This was broken down as 520,000 buys on cable and
330,000 via satellite. The show drew 16,562 fans, which was 16,025 paid
and a gate of $10,393,950, and another 19,000 paying $950,000 in the area
on closed circuit. Regarding overall revenue, depending upon overseas
numbers, it is a minimum of probably $67 million and perhaps as much as
$85-90 million.
Golden Boy Promotions had predicted 1.5 million domestic buys for the
show, saying that all indicators of interest level going in put it at 60%
of that of Mayweather vs. De La Hoya, which did 2.4 million buys,
although it ended up around 35%.
As far as a domestic number goes, it would be No. 2 this year behind
Mayweather vs. De La Hoya, because Mania with Trump and Vince did about
740,000 domestic and the latest estimate on Chuck Liddell vs. Quinton
Jackson, UFC's biggest fight of the year, was 675,000 buys.
Mark Taffet of HBO, when announcing the number, noted it was the biggest
PPV boxing number in history on a show that wasn't headlined by either De
La Hoya, Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield.
With the two Mayweather fights combining for $181 million in revenue, HBO
boxing finished its 2007 with 4.8 million buys and $255 million in total
gross revenue on eight shows. This breaks the all-time record for any
organization set by the 2001 WWF, which did $240 million, although with
considerably more buys at a lower price tag, and a dozen shows. The
previous HBO boxing record was $200 million in 1999, while UFC is
estimated at doing $223 million in 2006 on ten shows, also with
considerably more buys. The Mayweather gross revenue number would be the
most for any athlete in singles PPV matches for a year. Tito Ortiz last
year would have been the PPV box office king with 2.25 million buys and
$90 million.
But the 24/7 thing didn't work nearly as well the second time, partially
because the ratings for 24/7 without De La Hoya were likely way down. It
also showed just how incredible a draw De La Hoya is, and also, that
Hatton's British working class appeal didn't translate as well to the
U.S. It also showed the De La Hoya build up was one of those things that
clicked beyond anyone's wildest imagination and wasn't indicative of
anything that would relate to a new level of interest in boxing. The
numbers fell short of De La Hoya vs. Ricardo Mayorga in 2006, which
didn't come in with nearly the promotional hype and muscle this fight
had. Before the De La Hoya fight, the biggest numbers Mayweather had ever
drawn were 374,000 for his fight with Zab Judah.
It also shows that boxing's apparent "big-fight" domination of UFC due to
its historical advantages and mainstream hype advantages is not
necessarily that great. It's amazing, when you consider the hype in each
respective fight mainstream, how solidly Tito Ortiz vs. Chuck Liddell
beat this fight and how Ortiz vs. Ken Shamrock wasn't far off.
 

BGrif21125

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Dave Metzler on Mayweather-Hatton PPV #'s:
Thanks for posting the article Vinho. Although, I have to say, I disagree with most of what this guy is writing in terms of the disappointment of Mayweather-Hatton. I'll take it point-by-point.

In what has to be considered a huge disappointment, although it is being
presented very differently to the public, the Floyd Mayweather vs. Ricky
Hatton match only ended up doing a first estimate of 850,000 domestic
buys
Golden Boy Promotions had predicted 1.5 million domestic buys for the
show, saying that all indicators of interest level going in put it at 60%
of that of Mayweather vs. De La Hoya, which did 2.4 million buys,
although it ended up around 35%.
Labeling 850K in PPV buys as a "huge disappointment" is way off. The only reason anyone is disappointed is because Richard Schaeffer (Golden Boy) was dumb enough to predict 1.5 million buys, which never had any chance of happening. I predicted all along that this thing would do around 600-700K, so 850K was a big success IMO.
Since the advent of PPV, only two types of fights have drawn well.
1. Heavyweight fights, featuring Americans like Tyson and Holyfield
2. Non-heavyweight fights featuring Oscar De La Hoya.

This fight broke the mold, it's the best selling fight ever to not fall into those two categories. If someone had predicted a year ago that a fight between Mayweather (who has a non-crowd pleasing defensive style) and Hatton (a Brit who has never been on US PPV) would do 850K, they would have been laughed out of the room.

But the 24/7 thing didn't work nearly as well the second time, partially
because the ratings for 24/7 without De La Hoya were likely way down. It
also showed just how incredible a draw De La Hoya is, and also, that
Hatton's British working class appeal didn't translate as well to the
U.S.
DLH is the biggest PPV star of the past decade, and one of the biggest ever. Saying the ratings were down because DLH wasn't involved is stating the obvious. No one expected the ratings to be anywhere close to what they were for Floyd-DLH.

It also showed the De La Hoya build up was one of those things that
clicked beyond anyone's wildest imagination and wasn't indicative of
anything that would relate to a new level of interest in boxing.
I don't think anyone thought that Floyd-Oscar showed a new level of interest in boxing. What it showed was that there still is interest among the general public in boxing, IF the sport is marketed intelligently. It was an eye-opener to promoters and networks that all they had to do was put some effort in marketing-wise, and people would tune in.
2007 produced:
1. The biggest PPV ever (Floyd-Oscar)
2. The biggest non-heavyweight, non-Oscar PPV ever (Floyd-Hatton)
3. The biggest crowd in the history of Madison Square Garden for any sporting event (Cotto-Judah)
4. The biggest European crowd ever for a fight (Calzaghe-Kessler)
All accomplished thru intelligent marketing that has been absent in recent years.

Before the De La Hoya fight, the biggest numbers Mayweather had ever
drawn were 374,000 for his fight with Zab Judah.
Which is why the 850K for his fight with Hatton is a success, not a disappointment.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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An all-British cruiserweight superfight is on. Enzo Maccarinelli vs. David Haye on March 8.

I'm very psyched for this fight but I'm worried that it won't be shown on American TV. HBO is booked with Maskaev-Peter on that date (and after the low ratings for Calzaghe-Kessler plus HBO's apparent disdain for the cruiserweight division, they probably wouldn't pick up this fight anyway). I don't think Showtime has anything in March, so that's a possibility. But I read that they were planning on going dark that month, since Maskaev-Peter was originally a Showtime fight. We'll see. Setanta Sports will broadcast the fight live, NOT on PPV, in the U.K., so maybe some bars will pick it up via satellite here. Or perhaps it'll be available on the Internet.
 

inter tatters

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An all-British cruiserweight superfight is on. Enzo Maccarinelli vs. David Haye on March 8.

I'm very psyched for this fight but I'm worried that it won't be shown on American TV. HBO is booked with Maskaev-Peter on that date (and after the low ratings for Calzaghe-Kessler plus HBO's apparent disdain for the cruiserweight division, they probably wouldn't pick up this fight anyway). I don't think Showtime has anything in March, so that's a possibility. But I read that they were planning on going dark that month, since Maskaev-Peter was originally a Showtime fight. We'll see. Setanta Sports will broadcast the fight live, NOT on PPV, in the U.K., so maybe some bars will pick it up via satellite here. Or perhaps it'll be available on the Internet.
Much as I respect Enzo Calzaghe fighters, I hope David Haye pastes Maccarinelli from pillar to post. The disrespectful shit that he has been throwing at Haye since the Mormeck fight has been totally uncalled for and has really got my goat in the last few months.

Who exactly has Maccarinelli beaten to have the right to criticise Haye? Exactly nobody of merit - he had the title handed to him on a plate, then defended it against a patsy on the Calzaghe-Kessler undercard and now he gets a shot at a Unification bout, how does that work exactly?

I'm not surprised Haye is taking the fight 1) he'll get a lot more money this way, as very few 'Name' Heavyweights are willing to take a risk against his power right now, and 2) it's a chance to shut Maccarinelli up, but I do worry about his struggle with the weight that were so apparent in his fight with Mormeck.

Having said that, with his huge size and power advantage, not to mention his very quick hands, I still expect Haye to KO Macca and shut his over-exercised mouth up for a while.
 

Naehring11

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I'm not too familiar with David Haye. What do people think about his chances once he moves up to heavyweight? He is 6'3" so it seems he could bulk up quite a bit to challenge some upper tier fighters if he wanted to.
 

inter tatters

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I'm not too familiar with David Haye. What do people think about his chances once he moves up to heavyweight? He is 6'3" so it seems he could bulk up quite a bit to challenge some upper tier fighters if he wanted to.
He's already been up to Heavyweight once and cleaned the clock of rugged Polish Fringe Contender Tomasz Bonin, who had never been stopped before, in 74 seconds, so he certainly has the power! He weighed 217lbs for that fight and managed to get back down to 200 for the Jean-Marc Mormeck fight, though he did admit it was a struggle. According to most experts I've read, he could easily hold 240 on his frame and it wouldn't hurt his handspeed or movement too much.

He could very well be a decent contender at Heavyweight but he really has to learn how to defend properly before he takes on the 'Big Names'. He holds his left hand low and is just asking to get clocked by a big right hand, Mormeck nailed him but he managed to get back up, he wouldn't get up if a Klitschko et al hit him there!

Just thought I'd point out, if you search for David Haye on Youtube there is nearly all of his fights on there. Possibly the only Multiple World Champion you can say that about!
 

BGrif21125

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I'm not too familiar with David Haye. What do people think about his chances once he moves up to heavyweight? He is 6'3" so it seems he could bulk up quite a bit to challenge some upper tier fighters if he wanted to.
Haye can definitely be a legit contender.

I have no doubt that he can beat guys like Ibragimov, Liakhovich, Briggs, etc. I'd have to favor Sam Peter against him, although Haye's speed could give him trouble.

Wlad would be a solid favorite to beat Haye, just as he is a solid favorite to beat every heavyweight these days. However, Wlad will always carry questions about his chin, and Haye does have a lot of power, so you'd have to at least give Haye the "puncher's chance."

So I guess what I'm saying is that Haye appears to have the talent to be a top 3-4 heavyweight, so he should probably move up sooner rather than later. There will always be a lot more money to be made at heavyweight than cruiserweight, that's for sure.
 

eddiew112

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An absolute must-read interview with Floyd Sr.

Normally, I would highlight the best parts, but in this case there are just too many gems.

Link
Grif, thanks a bunch for this. I am trying to narrow down a classic quote from 10 for my signature...

EDIT: I fucking love how Crawford refers to him as "Big Floyd".
 

BGrif21125

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Thankfully, the de facto holiday "offseason" is finally over.

Peterson brothers on ShoBox tonight, Allan Green on Espn2, and Malignaggi-Ngoudjo on Showtime tomorrow night.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Unexpectedly exciting fight on Showtime tonight. Given how Malignaggi dominated Lovemore N'Dou last summer, and that Ngoudjo is a similar kind of a fighter to his fellow African, I thought Malignaggi would cruise to a one-sided win. But Paulie showed some ring rust -- his reflexes were noticeably slower than in previous fights -- and Ngoudjo fought much betterfrom the outside than anyone, including Paulie, thought he could. Throughout the fight, Ngoudjo landed the better shots. In the end I scored it a draw with six rounds for each fighter, but 115-113 for Malignaggi certainly isn't far-fetched. I can't disagree with the decision in his favor.

Ngoudjo had his chances, he even clearly had Malignaggi hurt briefly in the seventh, but he never put together the combinations that could close the deal and Malignaggi, whose heart and guts really cannot be questioned, boxed his way back into the fight and took it over. Until Ngoudjo dominated the final round which on my card gave him the draw. Anyway, not as amazing as 2006 when Showtime kicked off the year with the doubleheader of Bell-Mormeck (a wild slugfest) and Judah-Baldomir (an improbable upset), but still, a solid opening to the new year of boxing.
 

BGrif21125

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Unexpectedly exciting fight on Showtime tonight. Given how Malignaggi dominated Lovemore N'Dou last summer, and that Ngoudjo is a similar kind of a fighter to his fellow African, I thought Malignaggi would cruise to a one-sided win. But Paulie showed some ring rust -- his reflexes were noticeably slower than in previous fights -- and Ngoudjo fought much betterfrom the outside than anyone, including Paulie, thought he could. Throughout the fight, Ngoudjo landed the better shots. In the end I scored it a draw with six rounds for each fighter, but 115-113 for Malignaggi certainly isn't far-fetched. I can't disagree with the decision in his favor.
I had the same score, a draw, and therefore the 115-113 for Malignaggi was fine with me as well. And that's the score I expected, since Malignaggi was the house fighter.
Paulie can't change the fact that he has no power, but I do think he needs to work on his body punching. He really doesn't do it enough.

Best news of the night was when Showtime announced that Chad Dawson and Glen Johnson will be sqauring off in April. That's a very good crossroads fight between young potential star and old underrated veteran. Looking forward to it.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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According to this news blurb, the European cruiserweight superfight between David Haye and Enzo Maccarinelli on March 8 will be televised in the States on Showtime.

Haven't seen that anywhere else, but if true, that makes March a spectacular month on Showtime, and makes up for the network skipping its Febraury "Championship Boxing" show. Marquez.Vasquez III (which will now take place at the Home dept Center in Carson, CA -- I just hope it has better promotion than the first fight, which also took place there) on March 1, Haye-Maccarinelli the very next Saturday. Showtime had a largely dreary '07. Marquez-Vasquez I & II were spectacular, but they're practically cancelled out by two depressing "showcase" fights for the "so-five-minutes-ago" Antonio Tarver. But Showtime seems on the verge of a major comeback in '08. The Malignaggi-Ngoudjo matchup was a good if not fantastic start. After the "dark" month, then, we've got these two great weekends in March followed by Chad Dawson's first serious test, when he takes on Glen Johnson in April. Hopefully Showtime won't then come down with Tarver disease again because that's a great opening to the year.
 

BGrif21125

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Looks like Calzaghe-Hopkins is close to being done for April 12 on HBO PPV, the same day as Dawson-Johnson on Showtime.

First 4 months of '08 are shaping up very nicely. And Cotto will likely end up fighting in April or May as well.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Looks like Calzaghe-Hopkins is close to being done for April 12 on HBO PPV, the same day as Dawson-Johnson on Showtime.

First 4 months of '08 are shaping up very nicely. And Cotto will likely end up fighting in April or May as well.
I'm sure Cotto and Bob Arum are waiting on Oscar De La Hoya to announce who he has deigned to choose as his opponent for his big May 3 date. I doubt we'll see Cotto commit to anything before Oscar comes down from the mountaintop and gives The Word.

I have a gut feeling that Oscar wants to fight Hatton because he knows that he can win and that Hatton will still bring his sizable fandom across the pond. But I doubt many boxing fans want t see that fight. Cotto-DLH is more intriguing, but would be a more punishing experience for Oscar so he has to decide if he's up for that. Ultimately, I think that one plays out much as Cotto-Mosely did, though with a somewhat more decisive victory for Cotto.

Mayweather's not going to fight in April or May -- though with him you never really know. But if he's out and Cotto is not Oscar's Chosen One, assuming Margarito signs to fight Judah soon, that leaves Cotto with an all-Puerto Rican matchup of punchers against Kermit Cintron, or the dangerous stylistic matchup of Paul Williams. Though I think PWill-Cotto could actually be pretty interesting. Margarito was able to solve PWill as their fight went on. I think Cotto will figure things out more quickly.

Of course, Arum could also give Cotto an easy payday stay-busy fight against a lesser welterweight, or just hold him off entirely until the Puerto Rican Day parade weekend in June.

UPDATE: Just read that the Haye-Maccarinelli fight will air LIVE on Showtime, 8:30 pm EST (1:30 AM in the UK).

That's going to be a big DVR night. HBO has the doubleheader of Peter-Maskaev and Juan Diaz vs. Nate Campbell on the same night, though HBO's cards often start later so maybe the Haye-Mac fight will be over before the HBO card begins.
 

BGrif21125

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To continue the scheduling talk, the rumors are starting again of a Margarito-Judah fight, this time the rumored date is April 26. This fight had been rumored before for Feb/March, but Judah has been recovering from a hand injury and couldn't fight that early.

If the rumors are real for 4/26, then I assume that Cotto (if rejected by Oscar) would fight someone like Clottey in a main event, with Margarito-Judah the co-feature. If Cotto-Oscar happens in May, then Margarito-Judah would be a great Boxing After Dark fight.
 

inter tatters

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Haye-Maccarinelli has been confirmed as March 8th at London's O2 Arena.

That place is brand new and holds 20,000 fans (the Celtics-T'Wolves pre-season game in October was only the 2nd major event held there), so it should generate a decent atmosphere. However, Londoners are notoriously fickle and aren't generally vociferous in their support, so their won't be as much 'Home Town' advantage for Londoner Haye as there would be for Maccarinelli if it had been held in Cardiff.

I really cannot wait for this fight and hope Haye batters Maccarinelli from pillar to post, I really can't stand the gobby t**t (think Pretty Boy Floyd without the record to back up his talk). To say they are 2 different personalities would be an understatement, but they are both monstrous punchers (Haye 20 wins, 19 by KO and Macca 28, 21 by KO) and I can't see it going anywhere near the distance.
 

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File under the PLEASE, GOD, NOOO--OOOO! category:

According to BoxingTalk.com Mike Tyson is planning a comeback and wants a third fight with Evander Holyfield later this year.

Man, if there's one thing boxing, not to mention the world, does NOT need right now, it's that fight (if you can even call it a fight). Maybe they could do an MMA match or something.

NEW NEWS: A Puerto Rican newspaper is reporting that Miguel Cotto's next fight will be April 26 against -- Alfonso Gomez! Hmmm. (Here's the link which will need to be run through Google translation.)

Gomez is actually not a bad "stay busy" opponent. He's a gutsy guy and a hard worker who will give Cotto a pretty good action fight, but ultimately is no serious threat. So it looks like Oscar De La Hoya may have settled on a Mayweather rematch as his Cinco de Mayo fight. I gotta say -- I'm bored by that prospect.

Margarito-Judah may be on the same April 26 HBO card, which would then pit the winners of the two fights against each other later, presumably Cotto and Marg. But why Arum just won't make THAT fight without this preliminary nonsense is kind of ridiculous. Neither Cotto-Gomez or Marg-Judah are really terrible fights, per se. They're just not necessary fights.
 

BGrif21125

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Some guy on ESPN.com has put together a 10 Best Chins in history list.

I'm not sure how you can make a Top 10 chins list and not include Sugar Ray Robinson, who fought 200 times and whose only stoppage loss was the result of heat stroke, not a KO from a punch.

I'd put Ali and James Toney in any Top 10 list as well, and their names are nowhere to be seen either.
 

letsgosox

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Some guy on ESPN.com has put together a 10 Best Chins in history list.

I'm not sure how you can make a Top 10 chins list and not include Sugar Ray Robinson, who fought 200 times and whose only stoppage loss was the result of heat stroke, not a KO from a punch.

I'd put Ali and James Toney in any Top 10 list as well, and their names are nowhere to be seen either.
I saw that list and immediately thought of James Toney. It's too bad he could never stay motivated. He could of been an all time great.

I guess there are some serious rumors going around that if Cotto doesn't get Oscar next he'll likely fight Alphonso Gomez with Judah/Margarito making up the undercard. I love the undercard fight but I'm not all that excited about Gomez. He's a nice little scrapper but Cotto is in another league.
 

BGrif21125

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I saw that list and immediately thought of James Toney. It's too bad he could never stay motivated. He could of been an all time great.
Toney might be the biggest enigma of the last 20 years. Just a strange career all-around.

The HBO Countdown show for Jones-Trinidad airs tonight.

Also, tomorrow night, espn2 has an interesting doubleheader. Edison Miranda faces David Banks (from the contender) and Jean Pascal of Montreal fights in the other bout. The plan is to have Miranda-Pascal face each other this summer in Montreal, a fight which I'm tentatively planning on checking out in-person.
 

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So I watched the "Countdown to Jones-Trinidad" on HBO last night and I gotta say, while it was an interesting and well-produced show like all of the HBO "Countdowns," it got me even LESS excited about this fight. For one thing, it served to remind me that in Jones's last fight against a credible opponent (the third Tarver fight) he got battered around the ring and looked like crap. Trinidad did no better against Winky -- and that was two years ago. At least Jones has climbed back into the ring a couple of times in that time, albiet once against a tomoato can and the second time against a guy who could have been an overmatched "fringe contender."

So I came away feeling that this fight is gonna be garbage, basically. This is one rare case where I may hold on to my money rather than buy the PPV, because the undercard is even worse garbage (Andrew Golota? Please.)

But the hardcore boxing junky in me is still curious. Anyone know any sports bars in NYC that'll be showing it for a reasonable cover charge? I'd pay 10 or 15 plus the subway fare-- but not the $50 PPV fee for this
 

shawnrbu

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Having never seen the Winky-Trinidad fight, how did Trinidad lose it so fast that nobody wants to watch him fight anymore? I saw him fight Mayorga six months prior to the Winky fight and Tito massacred Mayorga. One of the worst beatings I have seen a fighter take on PPV. Now Mayorga is not in the top tier and was fighting at too high a weight, but he is still a live body in there. And, from my understanding, Winky gave Trinidad a boxing lesson in May 2005. Trinidad didn't lose his power. Why did (some) people still want to see Gatti at the end but not Trinidad? Would this be a different story if it were Oscar vs. Trinidad?
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Having never seen the Winky-Trinidad fight, how did Trinidad lose it so fast that nobody wants to watch him fight anymore? I saw him fight Mayorga six months prior to the Winky fight and Tito massacred Mayorga. One of the worst beatings I have seen a fighter take on PPV. Now Mayorga is not in the top tier and was fighting at too high a weight, but he is still a live body in there. And, from my understanding, Winky gave Trinidad a boxing lesson in May 2005. Trinidad didn't lose his power. Why did (some) people still want to see Gatti at the end but not Trinidad? Would this be a different story if it were Oscar vs. Trinidad?
I think a lot of people will want to see Tito fight. I expect this PPV to do decent but not spectacular numbers -- maybe breaking 400K.

I'm just saying that I, personally, am not excited to see him fight at this point. Maybe if he had remained somewhat active over the past couple of years I'd feel differently, even if he'd fought once per year. But this is a guy who since being stopped by Bernard Hopkins in 2001 has fought exactly three times. The Mayorga fight was fine, but frankly, Mayorga sucks, so I wouldn't have expected anything less. Winky then took Tito to school an a fight that wasn't even competitive. His only other fight was against a nobody. It's just hard for me to get excited about a guy with that history at this point in time.
 

BGrif21125

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I'm working the night of the 19th, so the ordering decision has been taken out of my hands.

However, if I weren't working, I almost certainly would have ordered it, for 3 reasons:

1. I generally cave and order just about every PPV, no matter how horrible the card is.
2. It's been 6 weeks since Mayweather-Hatton, so I'm itching to watch a big-name fight. If this card were sandwiched in between a bunch of other big fights, it'd be easier to resist.
3. Tito is one of my 7 or 8 favorite fighters ever, and I tend to always pay to see my favorite guys, even if they're well past their prime. For example, I paid $45 to see Erik Morales (one of my Top 3 all-time favorite fighters) against David Diaz, even though Morales was a corpse by that point.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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I'm working the night of the 19th, so the ordering decision has been taken out of my hands.

However, if I weren't working, I almost certainly would have ordered it, for 3 reasons:

1. I generally cave and order just about every PPV, no matter how horrible the card is.
2. It's been 6 weeks since Mayweather-Hatton, so I'm itching to watch a big-name fight. If this card were sandwiched in between a bunch of other big fights, it'd be easier to resist.
3. Tito is one of my 7 or 8 favorite fighters ever, and I tend to always pay to see my favorite guys, even if they're well past their prime. For example, I paid $45 to see Erik Morales (one of my Top 3 all-time favorite fighters) against David Diaz, even though Morales was a corpse by that point.
Well, I think if you're a Tito fan, this is going to be a hard one to watch. Even in his diminished state Jones is still much bigger, stronger and faster, a better boxer and the more active fighter. I'm afraid this is going to be a hell of a mismatch. I don't know if Jones will KO Tito is four like he's promising, but I think he'll win pretty much every round and, very likely, stop Tito mid-to-late. I can't think of a single factor in which Tito has an advantage, or even matches up.
 

BGrif21125

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Well, I think if you're a Tito fan, this is going to be a hard one to watch. Even in his diminished state Jones is still much bigger, stronger and faster, a better boxer and the more active fighter. I'm afraid this is going to be a hell of a mismatch. I don't know if Jones will KO Tito is four like he's promising, but I think he'll win pretty much every round and, very likely, stop Tito mid-to-late. I can't think of a single factor in which Tito has an advantage, or even matches up.
I agree. I'm predicting Jones by stoppage as well.

Tito's only chance is to land a big KO shot. But who knows if his power will have any affect at 170 pounds. He was one of most devastating punchers in the history of the welterweight division (I'd rank Robinson and Hearns as the only harder punchers in the history of that division), but 170 is a whole other galaxy from 147.
 

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It's January 11th, but we may have our Knockout of the Year! We'll be seeing that on Sportscenter tonight.
Yup, that was a highlight-reel, one-punch knockout for Edison Miranda -- against a journeyman opponent who despite being one of the stars of "The Contender" will never actually be a contender. David Banks will always be an ESPN-level fighter.

And yet, he got some very good work in before getting caught with a textbook shot that a fighter with better defensive skills would have deflected. I was amazed how many times Banks (who has very little power) landed cleanly on Miranda, who looked tentative, sluggish and gun-shy.

I'm afraid that despite Miranda's protests about having to make 160 for the Pavlik fight, what in fact happened was that he got exposed. I can't see him being even competitive against any of the top super-middleweights. I think a healthy Allen Green boxes circles around him and probably stops him late. And if he ever stepped in the ring with Mikkel Kessler he'd be utterly destroyed. Calzaghe has no reason ever to fight Miranda, but if that match ever did come about, it would make Calzaghe-Lacy look competitive.

On another subject, it looks as if Oscar De La Hoya outsmarted himself by waiting so long to name his opponent for his big Cinco De Mayo PPV date. It looks like three of his potential opponents -- Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah and Anotinio Margarito -- are all tied up fighting on THE April 26 HBO card, presumably to set up a Cotto-Maragarito showdown in June. Ricky Hatton is now reported to have booked a May 24 date for his comeback fight in Manchester, where he knows he'll sell out any arena no matter who he fights. (Demetrius Hopkins, Ricardo Torres and Kendall Holt are all under consideration as opponents; to Hatton's credit, none of them would be walkovers.)

So where does that leave DLH? With Oscar-Floyd II? Not only is that a fight that holds very little interest for anyone other than DLH's teenage girl fans, I'm not sure Floyd would take it. At this point, he is almost as big a star as Oscar and would be able to dictate his own financial terms for the fight. He'd also insist at fighting at 146 rather than 154. That plus another year on the calendar for the 35-year-old DLH would make this a one-sided affair. I think we might even see Floyd knock Oscar out this time.

So if not Floyd, then who? Does Oscar dare to step in with Paul Williams? Is there any upside in that fight for DLH? Would he fight his business partner, Shane Mosely, for a third time? I believe Oscar already ruled out a rematch with Felix Trinidad, who in any case will probably be in no mood to fight in May after the beat-down he is likely to take against Roy Jones next weekend. Kermit Cintron? Does he stay at 154 after all and take on Vernon Forrest? None of those fights have the glamor of a Cotto or Hatton (or even Mayweather) fight and would probably do low PPv numbers by DLH's standards. But Oscar may have no alternatives.
 

BGrif21125

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Miranda sure can punch. However, he's just too raw IMO to ever be a champ in a division that's full of quality fighters, like 168 is. If Miranda can beat Pascal this summer, then maybe Miranda gets a shot at Kessler later in the year. If that happens, then I agree with Gene, Kessler will smoke him. If Calzaghe does indeed leave 168 in search of bigger fights, I have no doubt that Kessler will step in as the #1 guy in this division. Anway, this is a really good time for the 168 pound division, lots of potentially interesting fights.

I thought Allan Green did a good job as the in-studio guest last night.
 

BGrif21125

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So where does that leave DLH? With Oscar-Floyd II? Not only is that a fight that holds very little interest for anyone other than DLH's teenage girl fans, I'm not sure Floyd would take it. At this point, he is almost as big a star as Oscar and would be able to dictate his own financial terms for the fight. He'd also insist at fighting at 146 rather than 154. That plus another year on the calendar for the 35-year-old DLH would make this a one-sided affair. I think we might even see Floyd knock Oscar out this time.
This does seem to be the big buzz right now.

I thought Floyd was sincere about wanting an extended break to rest, but he may take this, because he probably looks at it as an easy win and an easy payday. Last time, Oscar got everything he wanted (154, a smaller ring, Reyes gloves) and still lost. Like you said, a rematch figures to be a one-sided affair.

The only element that could make a rematch interesting is if Floyd Sr. trains Oscar, which is being rumored as a possibility at the moment. At the very least, Floyd Sr.'s presence would lead to some EPIC pre-fight trash talking and unprecedented levels of unintentional comedy.

I was really hoping to see Oscar fight Cotto in May, but I assume Oscar realized that Cotto would probably give him a beatdown.

I wasn't planning on seeing Floyd in the ring at all until late '08, so if this fight happens in the springtime, I won't criticize Floyd for taking it, AS LONG AS he fights a legit prime welterweight in the second half of the year. If '08 ends and Floyd hasn't faced a top welter (Cotto being the obvious candidate), then it should be open season to criticize him.

EDIT:
P.S. I believe that starting tomorrow, Trinidad-Vargas will be up on HBO On-Demand. Probably the best fight in the history of the 154 pound class. One of those fights that's always worth re-watching.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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This does seem to be the big buzz right now.

I thought Floyd was sincere about wanting an extended break to rest, but he may take this, because he probably looks at it as an easy win and an easy payday. Last time, Oscar got everything he wanted (154, a smaller ring, Reyes gloves) and still lost. Like you said, a rematch figures to be a one-sided affair.

The only element that could make a rematch interesting is if Floyd Sr. trains Oscar, which is being rumored as a possibility at the moment. At the very least, Floyd Sr.'s presence would lead to some EPIC pre-fight trash talking and unprecedented levels of unintentional comedy.

I was really hoping to see Oscar fight Cotto in May, but I assume Oscar realized that Cotto would probably give him a beatdown.

I wasn't planning on seeing Floyd in the ring at all until late '08, so if this fight happens in the springtime, I won't criticize Floyd for taking it, AS LONG AS he fights a legit prime welterweight in the second half of the year. If '08 ends and Floyd hasn't faced a top welter (Cotto being the obvious candidate), then it should be open season to criticize him.

EDIT:
P.S. I believe that starting tomorrow, Trinidad-Vargas will be up on HBO On-Demand. Probably the best fight in the history of the 154 pound class. One of those fights that's always worth re-watching.

I wouldn't criticize Floyd for taking the fight. Why not? It's an easy payday and still leaves him open for a "real" fight later in the year (Cotto, Mosley etc.) But I wouldn't blame him for NOT taking it either and in fact, I'm hoping he doesn't.

If Oscar wanted a real challenge he should stay at 154 and take on Vernon Forrest -- or even Winky Wright (though I doubt that will happen).

Meanwhile, speaking of not taking challenges (though I can't blame him either, at this point), according to a report in a British newspaper Ricky Hatton's next opponent, in May, will be Gavin Rees. Rees, while unbeaten and the holder of the WBA 140-pound belt, is basically a blown-up featherweight with no power (13 KOs in, I think, 26 fights). However, he is Welsh and is trained by Enzo Calzaghe, so that should add at least a little intrigue to the affair.
 

inter tatters

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I wouldn't criticize Floyd for taking the fight. Why not? It's an easy payday and still leaves him open for a "real" fight later in the year (Cotto, Mosley etc.) But I wouldn't blame him for NOT taking it either and in fact, I'm hoping he doesn't.

If Oscar wanted a real challenge he should stay at 154 and take on Vernon Forrest -- or even Winky Wright (though I doubt that will happen).

Meanwhile, speaking of not taking challenges (though I can't blame him either, at this point), according to a report in a British newspaper Ricky Hatton's next opponent, in May, will be Gavin Rees. Rees, while unbeaten and the holder of the WBA 140-pound belt, is basically a blown-up featherweight with no power (13 KOs in, I think, 26 fights). However, he is Welsh and is trained by Enzo Calzaghe, so that should add at least a little intrigue to the affair.
That's pretty soft from Ricky.

If he wanted an all-British Fight he should have taken on Junior Witter 1st, he is a much more legit 'Champion' than Rees. Maybe he wants an easier pay-day hidden as a title unification, but it won't stop the accusations that are flying around in the press over here that Ricky is ducking Witter, as he's realised how dangerous Witter has become in his recent fights.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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That's pretty soft from Ricky.

If he wanted an all-British Fight he should have taken on Junior Witter 1st, he is a much more legit 'Champion' than Rees. Maybe he wants an easier pay-day hidden as a title unification, but it won't stop the accusations that are flying around in the press over here that Ricky is ducking Witter, as he's realised how dangerous Witter has become in his recent fights.
Hasn't this been Ricky's career track all along. He and his management recognize the monetary value of a belt, any belt. So he's always taken the easiest path to get one, then tried to parlay it into something bigger. Carlos Maussa, Juan Urango, Luis Collazo (though that turned out to be a bit of a rude awakening), and arguably, even the well-past-his-prime Tszyu have all been the paths of least resistance to a "World Championship" and Ricky's taken them each time. So why would he take on Junior Witter or a Paulie Malignaggi, guys who actually could beat him, when he can call himself a "Three-Time World Champion" by overpowering an inflated 5-foot, three-inch featherweight who can't punch?
 

inter tatters

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Hasn't this been Ricky's career track all along. He and his management recognize the monetary value of a belt, any belt. So he's always taken the easiest path to get one, then tried to parlay it into something bigger. Carlos Maussa, Juan Urango, Luis Collazo (though that turned out to be a bit of a rude awakening), and arguably, even the well-past-his-prime Tszyu have all been the paths of least resistance to a "World Championship" and Ricky's taken them each time. So why would he take on Junior Witter or a Paulie Malignaggi, guys who actually could beat him, when he can call himself a "Three-Time World Champion" by overpowering an inflated 5-foot, three-inch featherweight who can't punch?
You could say that Tszyu was past his best, but he was the only champion at the time who would face Ricky, so what was he to do? I really don't like that argument being held against him. The others? Yeah, I guess that could be held against him, but TBH a lot of other guys wanted nothing to do with him.

As for your argument about not wanting to face Witter or Malignaggi, I certainly agree. There's a body of folks in Britain who really reckon Witter could have him and pretty easily too. He's a bit 'Mayweather-lite', he's quick, has a very good defence and would frustrate Ricky something silly, then land that big punch like he did to KO his opponent in his last fight. His fighting style can be considered boring, but when he swings his fists he hurts people. Malignaggi again, would be too quick for Ricky, but their styles would be a good match as they both like a tear up.
 

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I don't have a problem with Hatton fighting an easy opponent this time, because I think a fighter that's just been knocked out is entitled to one easy, confidence-building fight to get back on track. So Hatton is entitled to one pushover here IMO.
However, in his next fight, presumably in the second half of '08, he needs to fight Witter, Malignaggi, or someone of that caliber.
 

BGrif21125

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If Oscar wanted a real challenge he should stay at 154 and take on Vernon Forrest -- or even Winky Wright (though I doubt that will happen).
Winky would be the best fight, although I agree that it probably won't happen.

Instead of Vernon Forrest, how about a rematch with Ike Quartey? Quartey beat Forrest (and got robbed) and beat De La Hoya (and got robbed). I'd give Oscar a lot of credit for giving Ike the rematch he's always deserved, although I realize that it almost certainly won't happen, for multiple reasons.
 

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The Ricky Hatton - Gavin Rees fight scheduled (briefly) for May 24 is now off. Hatton walked away because "the terms weren't right."

HBO still plans to air Hatton's next fight and has that May 24 date set aside for him, however.
 

letsgosox

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some interesting news regarding the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight. One of the things that's holding up the fight being finalized is HBO. Apparently their contemplating putting the fight on HBO rather than ppv. Now I'm all for HBO putting fights on regular cable rather than ppv but this one is strange to me. If they do put it on HBO they'll have to spend a fortune for the fighters, which you can argue neither deserves. Calzaghe/Kessler was the lowest rated "World Championship Boxing" telecsat ever and it's not like Hopkins has a strong following. Also, all that money that they'll put into this fight will be coming out of their networks boxing budget. For the amount they spend on this fight they probably could have used the same amount for 2 or 3 "World Championship Boxing" broadcasts. Anyone else think it's not worth it for HBO?
 

BGrif21125

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some interesting news regarding the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight. One of the things that's holding up the fight being finalized is HBO. Apparently their contemplating putting the fight on HBO rather than ppv. Now I'm all for HBO putting fights on regular cable rather than ppv but this one is strange to me. If they do put it on HBO they'll have to spend a fortune for the fighters, which you can argue neither deserves. Calzaghe/Kessler was the lowest rated "World Championship Boxing" telecsat ever and it's not like Hopkins has a strong following. Also, all that money that they'll put into this fight will be coming out of their networks boxing budget. For the amount they spend on this fight they probably could have used the same amount for 2 or 3 "World Championship Boxing" broadcasts. Anyone else think it's not worth it for HBO?
That's an interesting question.

On one hand, there have been so many fights on PPV over the years that didn't belong on PPV, and as a result, I'll have a hard time ever criticizing HBO for deciding to air a fight for free on regular HBO. I've been assuming all along that this fight would be PPV, so if it's not, that's a nice unexpected savings of $50.

OTOH, I wouldn't want HBO to blow their budget and compromise other fights just to air this on HBO instead of PPV. I don't know enough about their budget to know if this would be the case however.
Calzaghe-Hopkins is a big fight, and I would pay the $50 if it's on PPV, but I don't want HBO to pour tons of money into it if it means sacrificing other fights. Calzaghe and Hopkins are both great fighters, but I think there's a good chance that it's a very ugly fight (isn't every Hopkins fight ugly?), and I'm a little tired of big fights featuring two guys who are both 35 years old or older. I feel like there's been a ton of those in recent years, there's practically a Seniors Circuit. That's why I'm so excited about Pacquiao-Marquez II and a hypothetical Mayweather-Cotto fight, because it's a chance to watch two elite guys in their prime (I still consider Marquez to be in his prime despite the fact he's 34).
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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some interesting news regarding the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight. One of the things that's holding up the fight being finalized is HBO. Apparently their contemplating putting the fight on HBO rather than ppv. Now I'm all for HBO putting fights on regular cable rather than ppv but this one is strange to me. If they do put it on HBO they'll have to spend a fortune for the fighters, which you can argue neither deserves. Calzaghe/Kessler was the lowest rated "World Championship Boxing" telecsat ever and it's not like Hopkins has a strong following. Also, all that money that they'll put into this fight will be coming out of their networks boxing budget. For the amount they spend on this fight they probably could have used the same amount for 2 or 3 "World Championship Boxing" broadcasts. Anyone else think it's not worth it for HBO?
I think this probably has to do with the fact that HBO has Jones-Trinidad in January, Pavlik-Taylor II in February, Pacquiao-Marquez II in March and DLH-Somebody (probably Mayweather) in May. That's five straight months of $50 (and up) PPV fights. That puts HBO PPV in a position of competing against itself, because even for boxing die-hards, dropping an extra $50 every month is a lot to ask. (And that's just the schedule so far! Who knows what'll come up in June and July and into the Fall?) I've already pretty much decided to take a rare pass on Jones-Trinidad. But given Calzaghe's low ratings for the Kessler fight andf Hopkins never having much of a fan base, I would guess that they're worried that this fight would be the odd one out.

Also, HBO, I believe, still has Calzaghe under contract. He only has a couple of fights left in him, so they need to build him up for a big PPV showdown against Pavlik, Taylor, maybe even Roy Jones. Someone like that. That's assuming he can actually beat Hopkins of course, though given Joe's work rate, I think he can.
 

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Rafael just put up an article on espn.com about the Floyd-Oscar discussions, which are reportedly almost finished:
Link

"We are still discussing things but we have almost finalized it," said Schaefer, who heads De La Hoya's promotional company. "I think an announcement will be forthcoming."

Schaefer said the fight would be Sept. 13 or Sept. 20 on HBO pay-per-view.
I HATE this part. I was working under the impression that this fight would be in May, which was fine with me, because all that meant was that Floyd was cutting short his planned "break." And that would have left Maywather open for a truly meaningful fight (Cotto) in late '08.
Now, if this thing isn't until mid-September, that means we don't see Floyd in against a legit, prime welterweight until Spring '09, at the earliest. This is horrible news.

Possible venues:
He said the site for Mayweather-De La Hoya II has not been settled but he is holding the September dates at the 27,000-seat Home Depot Center, the outdoor home to the Los Angeles Galaxy of Major League Soccer. He said other venues are also interested, including the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

A source also told ESPN.com Wednesday night that Dodger Stadium was interested in hosting the fight after L.A. native De La Hoya suggested he'd like to fight there before retiring.
Finally, the weight hasn't been decided on yet.
 

ElUno20

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Dodger stadium or the Home Depot center would be huge out here. And Grif, I think Floyd is officially moving into the 1-fight-a-year role. He feels he's earned it and has nothing else to prove.

I do think he'll fight Cotto but not until next year.
 

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Dodger stadium or the Home Depot center would be huge out here. And Grif, I think Floyd is officially moving into the 1-fight-a-year role. He feels he's earned it and has nothing else to prove.

I do think he'll fight Cotto but not until next year.
I find the whole prospect of DLH-PBF II pretty depressing actually. I could sorta live with it in May, because at that point it seemed that Oscar was out of marquee opponents and he would have been defaulting to Floyd. But in September? By that time, there's no reason not to make Floyd-Cotto, or Oscar-Cotto, or Floyd-Mosley or any one of a number of other great welterweight fights. Even Oscar-Hatton might be available by then (not that I want to see that fight, but I'm just saying).

Thankfully there's enough great stuff going on in boxing right now that the world doesn't revolve around Oscar or even Floyd anymore. Still, I wish one or both of them would do something more interesting than this.

So does this mean that Oscar has given up on his usual Cinco de Mayo date this year? Anyone read anything about that?