Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

letsgosox

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I'm starting to think Floyd isn't going to fight Cotto anytime soon. Probably not for a couple of years. I think he'll wait to see if Cotto's skills have diminished or if he's lost a step before he agrees to fight him. Now that he's one of the biggest and richest boxers in the world he's not going to take chances with the likes of Cotto,Mosley, and Williams.

Rumor has it that GBP might give their May date that they had for Oscar to Mosley. I don't know if that date is considered ppv or HBO but if it's ppv they better make it a stacked card because there's really not much out there for Mosely right now. I guess Williams and Cintron but that's not going to sell a lot of ppvs.

Anyone want to predict what the Oscar/Floyd II buyrate will be? I'm guess 1.5 million. People who were casual fans and bought the last fight because of all the hype will not buy this one.
 

BGrif21125

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Dodger stadium or the Home Depot center would be huge out here.
I really hope this thing ends up at Dodger Stadium, because that's one thing that would make it more interesting. It'd be cool to see a fight in a baseball stadium, which hasn't happened in this era.

Other than that, the fight just isn't interesting to me, because I feel like I already know what's going to happen. Floyd will win again, and will probably win in easier fashion. Oscar is getting older by the minute, and will be coming off another 16 months of inactivity by the time this fight happens.

I do think he'll fight Cotto but not until next year.
I hope so. It's just that the longer a fight gets delayed, the more chance there is that something happens that prevents it from ever coming together.

It's not even specifically Cotto that's bothering me. What bothers me is that right now, the #1 PFP guy also happens to be fighting in the most talent-laden weight class, and that occurrence is very rare, because when you think of all the different divisions, what are the odds that the same division hosts both the #1 PFP guy and the most talented fighters overall at the same time? For example, think of all the years where a prime Roy Jones was stuck in 168 and 175, where there just weren't many top-notch contenders.

And if we figure that Floyd won't be fighting again until at least Spring '09, that means he will have wasted 2.5 years in the welterweight division without facing a true welterweight. You'd have to go all the way back to Baldomir (hardly an elite opponent) in late '06.
 

allaboutthesox

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It would be unfortunate to not see a Cotto-Floyd fight until 09 at the earliest. That fight would seem to have a huge draw for die hard boxing fans as well as casual boxing fans. I would be willing to be that a Cotto-Floyd fight would have the buzz that the Trinidad-DeLaHoya had a few years ago. When one knew that they were seeing two boxers in their "prime" fighting. I think what bothers me the most about a Cotto-Floyd fight NOT taking place till 2009 is that in boxing it seems like anything can happen and with some fighters the longer layoffs seem to diminish the actual fight.
 

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According to Arum, it will be Cotto-Gomez and Margarito-Judah on April 26 in Atlantic City. Regular HBO. That will be an entertaining doubleheader.

If Cotto and Margarito win, then I assume it will be Cotto-Margarito at MSG a few months later.
 

ElUno20

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Judah is amazing. It just goes to show you how much "interesting" matters. He just keeps getting these big fights (and losing them).

He's not a big enough puncher at 147 to slow Tony down. But then again, Tony is so damn slow and unathletic it may be another Judah/Cotto.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Judah is amazing. It just goes to show you how much "interesting" matters. He just keeps getting these big fights (and losing them).

He's not a big enough puncher at 147 to slow Tony down. But then again, Tony is so damn slow and unathletic it may be another Judah/Cotto.
I think Judah has a great chance of winning that fight if he can stay smart and not give up if he doesn't KO Marg in the first four rounds. I think his hand speed will be too much for Maragrito to handle. But Judah's mental state is always a question mark. If he starts to get hit a little, will he have it in his heart to stand up to another Cotto-like beating and stick to a game plan? Or wil he fold as he did as soon as Baldomir tagged him a couple of times?

The Cotto-Gomez/Judah-Marg card is now confirmed. HBO has approved it.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE:

According to CEO Richard Schaefer, that May 3 "Cinco de Mayo" PPV date, vacated by Oscar De La Hoya now that it looks like he'll be fighting his pointless (except to his bank account) rematch with Floyd Mayweather in September, will likely be taken by the comeback of Marco Antonio Barrera.

Hmm.

It's starting to look like 2008 is going to be a bit of mixed-results year for boxing. There are some very interesting fights coming up. But there are also, it seems, a lot of uninteresting or even cringe-worthy "events" coming up. To me, Barrera is pretty much shot. Right now, he's just a slick boxer, but not an exciting one. I have no desire to see him fight again, much less on PPV. Nor am I interested in this weekend's fight as more than a curiosity. I also, like many fans, have little interest in DLH-PBF II. And speaking of that, it looks like boxing is taking a page from Hollywood's book this year and filling the calendar with sequels. Pavlik-Taylor II, Marquez-Vasquez III, Marquez-Pacquiao II. Great fights, yes. But there are also a lot of great NEW matchups to be made and so far, we haven't heard about very many of them.
 

letsgosox

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according to Kevin Iole of Yahoo.com the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight will be officially announced on Tuesday and will be on HBO and not ppv. I believe I read that HBO will be paying $6 million for the fight. Now I'm glad this fight isn't on ppv but the $6 million being spent on the fight will take a pretty big bite out of HBO's budget.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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according to Kevin Iole of Yahoo.com the Calzaghe/Hopkins fight will be officially announced on Tuesday and will be on HBO and not ppv. I believe I read that HBO will be paying $6 million for the fight. Now I'm glad this fight isn't on ppv but the $6 million being spent on the fight will take a pretty big bite out of HBO's budget.
Last year, HBO had a $40 million budget for "World Championship Boxing." They blew a good chunk of it on a couple of basically worthless Wladimir Klitschko fights which is why they ran out of money a little bit early. But overall, WCB had a pretty good year. I hope that means the budget will go up in 2008. If so, there should still be plenty left to make some great fights on "free" HBO.

I'm excited that Calzaghe-Hopkins is on WCB, not PPV. I'm also surprised. I thought at one point Hopkins had said he would only fight on PPV at this point in his career. Maybe I misheard that. But who knows -- in boxing more than any other sport, promises are made to be broken. Glad this one was broken for the better!

YET ANOTHER UPDATE: Superseding the earlier report of De La Hoya's May 3 date going to the comeback of Marco Antonio Barrera, it is now confirmed that De La Hoya WILL fight on May 3, in a "tune-up" for the Mayweather rematch. And that fight will NOT be a PPV fight, but will instead air on HBO World Championship Boxing.

"I want to set a trend where the big-name fighters will fight on free television. Why not go back to the roots? Go back to fighting on free television. I think the fans deserve it. I hope other fighters can do this," De La Hoya said.
Well, HBO isn't exactly "free," but we get the point. I think it's a good move on Oscar's part. I just hope that, while I don't expect him to pick a really challenging opponent, at least he picks a credible one.

Also, Floyd Sr. will definitely train Oscar for the Floyd Jr. rematch (as well as for the May tuneup and one more, later bout), which I expect will be the major storyline used to sell the rematch. There's no other real reason for this fight.
 

BGrif21125

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YET ANOTHER UPDATE: Superseding the earlier report of De La Hoya's May 3 date going to the comeback of Marco Antonio Barrera, it is now confirmed that De La Hoya WILL fight on May 3, in a "tune-up" for the Mayweather rematch. And that fight will NOT be a PPV fight, but will instead air on HBO World Championship Boxing.
Well, HBO isn't exactly "free," but we get the point. I think it's a good move on Oscar's part. I just hope that, while I don't expect him to pick a really challenging opponent, at least he picks a credible one.

Also, Floyd Sr. will definitely train Oscar for the Floyd Jr. rematch (as well as for the May tuneup and one more, later bout), which I expect will be the major storyline used to sell the rematch. There's no other real reason for this fight.
First, the Floyd Sr. news is great, because that brings some new level of interest into the rematch. It might not have any effect on the outcome, but at the very least, it will lead to some great comedy in the buildup to the fight. Now that Floyd Sr. is in the fold, I'd say it's virtually guaranteed that HBO does another 4 episode 24/7 series. I'd prefer that they not waste any time on Oscar at all during the episodes, so that they can devote all the allotted time to letting the Mayweathers cuss each other out.

While Floyd Sr. certainly knows the in-and-outs of his son's style better than anyone, his presence in the corner could also hurt Oscar. There was at least an outside chance that Floyd would show up overconfident to the rematch. Now, if his father is involved, you know that Floyd will be in top shape and completely ready to go, because he's going to want to thoroughly beat the guy being trained by his father.

As for the tuneup bout, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to see Oscar lose in a major upset. Then maybe the rematch doesn't happen and we get something better. There is a precedent for this... remember that Oscar fought Felix Sturm as an easy tuneup for the Hopkins fight, and he fought absolutely horribly and nearly lost. In fact, most people think that Sturm deserved the win and that Oscar got a gift decision.

Finally, Marco Antonio Barrera needs to stay retired. But I'm not even remotely surprised that he wants to make a comeback.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Rumor going around is Oscar's tuneup is his own Golden Boy fighter, Steve Forbes.
Yikes. If that rumor has substance, I guess Oscar REALLY doesn't want to take any risks in his "tune-up" fight. Forbes is a nice little boxer, but he's a junior welterweight. Oscar is a junior middleweight. He's fought several fights at middleweight and hasn't even fought at 147 in seven or eight years. The only time Forbes has fought at welterweight was in the Contender Season 2 tournament. He boxed and moved his way to the finals against journeymen, but got outmuscled by Grady Brewer (another journeyman) in the finale.

I like Forbes and in a way, I'm happy for him if this rumor turns out to be true. This would be the opportunity of a lifetime and will certainly be the biggest payday he's ever made by far. He's a slick enough boxer that he could probably avoid being knocked out and, I think, would give a respectable showing for himself. But basically, it's a walkover for Oscar. Kind of a joke, really.
 

shawnrbu

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I know it's not very realistic for a variety of reasons as a tuneup fight, but I would have loved to have seen Oscar vs. Berto. That would have been a fascinating Old vs. Young fan appreciation fight. Maybe it is something that can be worked on if we do indeed get a 3rd Oscar fight in 2008 in December.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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I know it's not very realistic for a variety of reasons as a tuneup fight, but I would have loved to have seen Oscar vs. Berto. That would have been a fascinating Old vs. Young fan appreciation fight. Maybe it is something that can be worked on if we do indeed get a 3rd Oscar fight in 2008 in December.
Actually, Oscar vs. Berto wouldn't be a bad idea. It's got some risk for Oscar. If he gets careless, he gets starched. But if he stays focused, I think he boxes circles around Berto and possibly stops him. That would be a win he'd get a lot of credit for, taking out a young lion at his age, and I think it would add a lot of intrigue to the Mayweather rematch, by making Oscar look like a badass (which he rather comically tried to do in the first 24/7, but stopping Berto would be no joke).

I really doubt its going to happen. A little too much risk for Oscar. Besides, Golden Boy and the Contender seem to have some kind of unannounced deal where the Contender provides opponents for GB fighters. I think Oscar will fight a Contender alum on May 3, and that's where Forbes' name is coming from.

However, BoxingScene.com is reporting that the Cotto-Gomez fight is not finalized because Gomez isn't happy with the money Bob Arum is offering. But I wonder, and it's just an idle theory, if Gomez might not be in line to fight Oscar on May 3 if he can wriggle out of his Cotto date.

I think that would be a better fight than DLH-Forbes. Gomez is a true welterweight with some building credibility. He's not on Oscar's level, of course, but I think with Oscar being another year older and Gomez being young and hungry and definitely a tiger in the ring, the fight would have some drama to it. Ultimately, I think Oscar wins a clear but not dominant decision. But I'd be very happy to watch that fight on HBO. There's also talk that the May 3 daye could land at a 140,000 seat soccer stadium in Mexico. Having a Mexican like Gomez as the opponent would only help there.

If Gomez backs out of the Cotto fight, Joshua Clottey would probably step in against Cotto.

2008 is off to a weird start, mainly thanks to Oscar and his waffling on who and when and where he wants to fight.
 

BGrif21125

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As far as Oscar's opponent for May 3, it all comes down to what he wants to get out of this fight. Is the purpose of the fight to beat a quality opponent (in an attempt to convince people that he's back on his game), or is the purpose of the tuneup to prepare for Floyd?

Because if it's the former, then he should fight a legit full-sized welterweight or junior middleweight, because beating a 140-pounder isn't going to prove much. Gomez makes sense here, especially since he's coming off a notable win (Gatti) and people know him from the Contender.

If it's the latter, and Oscar wants to specifically use the May 3 fight as preparation for Floyd, then Oscar really should fight a small 140 pound fighter. Because, while Floyd might be a welterweight now, he's not really a welterweight. He's a blown up lightweight who has moved up in search of the big paydays. To prepare for the speed and movement of Mayweather, Oscar would be better off fighting a 140-pounder, instead of some big lumbering guy like Gomez. Malignaggi would be perfect here. He's a slick boxer who moves a lot, you could make a stretch and call him a homeless man's version of Mayweather.

As far as Oscar-Berto, I think the reason that would never happen is because of Berto, not Oscar. I'm sure Berto's camp thinks that he's a future champ who could make some good money. But he's still only fighting the Cosme Riveras and David Estradas of the world, so there's no way his team would throw him in with Oscar. He's still several stepping-stone opponents away from being ready for that.

Also, my take on Margarito-Judah is that it will end up being similar to Cotto-Judah, with not quite as much action. Margarito is definitely not as good of a fighter as Cotto, but I don't expect Judah to be as good as he was against Cotto either. Judah fought with a ton of heart against Cotto, but in the process he subjected himself to a terrible beating, the type of physical beating that most guys don't ever fully recover from. I think Zab's speed will give Margarito lots of problems early, and Zab will land some big left hands, but if Margarito handles those punches, he'll begin to impose his will on Zab and break him down by the late rounds, much like Cotto did. It's a great undercard fight.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Thoughts on Jones/Trinidad? I had a prior engagement, so I didn't see untill I got home...
Good fight , for what it was. I went out to a local bar to watch it (for a $10 cover charge rather than the $50 ppv which I just couldn't bring myself to pay for this exhibition), and the crowd there was really into it so maybe that influenced my feelings about the fight. But I thought both guys looked better than I thought they would. But in the end, the fight played out pretty much as I expected, though Tito was somewhat tougher than I thought he'd be. Basically, after a couple of aggressive, seemingly effective opening rounds for Trinidad, Jones' superior size and speed took over the fight and held the day. Tito never really had a chance. He threw some loud, showy shots, but I don't think he landed one really effective punch the whole fight. Still, he gave it his all and showed plenty of heart. I never got the feeling that he, or Jones for that matter, was just there to pick up a paycheck.

In the final analyses, the fight was what it was, two old fighters in a meaningless fight putting on a pretty good show. Jones especially proved that he's a great entertainer in there. But neither made any kind of a big statement. The only thing that may come out of this fight is that Jones' may have revitalized his marketability enough to actually land that fight with Calzaghe in Wales later this year, if Calzaghe can get by Hopkins in April (not an easy assignment).
 

Ahriman

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Kellerman made a comment last night about this fight possibly hurting Jones' legacy because it shows he was still capable of boxing at a level that at least resembled his former self, yet still lost those 3 fights in a row. I thought about that for a bit and decided that I couldn't disagree more. To me, it shows just how skilled Jones was in his prime. Here Roy is all these years later and he's still faster than someone he has no business being faster than for his size. Not to mention how remarkably accurate he still seems to be.

I'm now kinda wanting Calzaghe to beat Hopkins solely for a possible showdown with Roy. It's the sort of fight that could really focus Roy with the possible boost to his legacy being enormous if he could pull off an upset.
 

BGrif21125

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I think a lot of people (including myself) worried that the fight would be either a one-sided landslide KO for Jones, or a 12 round snoozefest between 2 guys with nothing left. Luckily, it was neither of those. It was an entertaining fight.

Trinidad fought a very spirited fight for the first 4-5 rounds, but after that, Jones size and speed advantages were just too much. And Trinidad has never had a Plan B his entire career, so it was no surprise that he had no answer.

However, I'm not going to put much stock in Jones' victory. While he looked good for a 39 year old, we can't forget that Trinidad was fighting for the first time in more than 2 years and at a weight 10 pounds heavier. I still think Jones would lose in lopsided fashion to any of the top 168/175 pounders, be it Calzaghe, Hopkins, Kessler, etc.

The Golota-Mollo undercard fight was entertaining too. Say what you want about Golota, but one thing he's never been is dull.
 

ElUno20

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Either fight, Hopkins or Calzaghe, Roy wouldn't have to worry about getting KO'd. However, with Calzaghe if he shows the lack of activity he did early in this fight it could kill him on the cards.
 

BGrif21125

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Kellerman made a comment last night about this fight possibly hurting Jones' legacy because it shows he was still capable of boxing at a level that at least resembled his former self, yet still lost those 3 fights in a row. I thought about that for a bit and decided that I couldn't disagree more.
Ya I agree with you, in that I disagreed with Kellerman there as well. IMO, all Jones can do at this point is enhance his legacy (such as if he were to pull off a huge upset over someone like Calzaghe), but I don't see how he can do anything to detract from his legacy at this point.

Jones is a tough guy to rank all-time... some people would say he's one of the 10-15 greatest fighters ever, others would say he's vastly overrated (I fall somewhere in between those two camps), but wherever he stands, it shouldn't be diminshed by anything he does or doesn't do at this point, IMO. Just like Evander Holyfield's legacy is already cemented, and the fact that he's fought for about 10 years too long shouldn't hurt his standing.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Ya I agree with you, in that I disagreed with Kellerman there as well. IMO, all Jones can do at this point is enhance his legacy (such as if he were to pull off a huge upset over someone like Calzaghe), but I don't see how he can do anything to detract from his legacy at this point.

Jones is a tough guy to rank all-time... some people would say he's one of the 10-15 greatest fighters ever, others would say he's vastly overrated (I fall somewhere in between those two camps), but wherever he stands, it shouldn't be diminshed by anything he does or doesn't do at this point, IMO. Just like Evander Holyfield's legacy is already cemented, and the fact that he's fought for about 10 years too long shouldn't hurt his standing.
I thought Kellerman's commentwas ridiculous. He's realy stretching to make his mark on the broadcast, with Larry Merchant's shadow looming over him.

I'll give him time, but he's just not gelling with Lampley and Steward yet. In fact, I get a weird vibe that Lamps and Manny are actively freezing him out. I haven't watched the broadcast a second time, but I don't recall Lampley bringing Kellerman in more than a couple of times the whole night, and then mostly when he had to (such as when Kellerman's locker-room fighter interviews aired during the undercard). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Steward ever addressed Kellerman directly or responded to anything he said at all.

Anyway, the idea that Jones' legacy could be tarnished because he looked good in this fight but got knocked silly by Tarver and Johnson two years ago is such a reach of tortured logic I had to laugh out loud when I heard him say it. An I noted that Lampley quickly jumped in and put Max in his place there, recalling how Jones said he felt weakened by having to drop the weight he'd gained for his heavyweight title fight against John Ruiz just a year earlier. And then Manny (I guess responding to Kellerman here, now that I think of it, albeit to slap him down) stated that Jones came back too early after getting KTFO'd by Tarver and that's why he got knocked cold even worse by Johnson. Kellerman was forced to concede that those points were "legitimate."

I kind of feel bad for Max, but he also gets on my nerves on these telecasts. He's much better as a studio commentator than as an in-fight analyst, though he could and hopefully will grow into the job.
 

BGrif21125

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I kind of feel bad for Max, but he also gets on my nerves on these telecasts. He's much better as a studio commentator than as an in-fight analyst, though he could and hopefully will grow into the job.
I've been trying to wrap my head around the whole Kellerman thing for awhile now. I think there are a lot of elements all adding up. A few random thoughts:

First off, I completely agree with you that he's a better studio guy than ringside analyst. He and Brian Kenny were great as the studio guys on FNF, that was really the perfect gig for both of them. It's unfortunate that HBO doesn't have a studio show for him to be a part of. (Even if there will never be a studio show, I wish HBO did a monthly boxing podcast, or something of that nature.)

Part of the problem is the simple fact that he's following in the footsteps of a legend (Merchant), and therefore it's going to be a tough transition no matter what. It just sounds awkward for anyone other than Merchant to be sitting next to Lampley, because those 2 have been working together more than 20 years now.

Another part of the problem is that Kellerman simply has a very annoying and grating voice. I feel like my eardrum is ready to explode sometimes when he talks.

I too often get the vibe that Max, Lampley and Steward aren't exactly best friends, and that there is some "freezing out" going on. It's tough enough to be replacing Merchant, and it's even tougher when the guys you're working with aren't doing you any favors. A lot of times when Max makes a good point (and in general I do think he's a good analyst), it seems like the other guys respond to it with nothing but silence, just letting Max's words hang out there forever. Or if they do agree with him, they'll go out of their way to say, "That's a good point, Max!" in a tone that makes it seem like they're surprised that he actually said something right. Some disagreements are going to happen no matter what, Merchant/Lampley/Steward disagree on a regular basis, but they also seem to like working together too. It's just a weird vibe all around when Kellerman is there in place of Merchant.

I think ultimately, a lot of the blame probably goes to the HBO execs. They should have just given Merchant his contract ahead of time, and had Max be the heir apparent working the Boxing After Dark and some WCB shows. Then when Merchant retired at his time of choice, they could have promoted Max. Instead, they had a staredown with Merchant, promoted Max to replace him, then decided they wanted Merchant back, and as a result they had to broker this compromise where Merchant and Kellerman share the load. Who knows, maybe Kellerman was playing politics behind the scenes and that's a source of the friction, I don't know.
 

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News from the "Ill-Advised Comeback" Department:

"My plans are to return to the ring in 2009," says Mexican ring legend Erik Morales. The legendary three-division champion said that he plans to come back in a ten-rounder, then seek a championship fight. "I think I can come back and fight again and win a championship because I don't consider myself finished," he continued. "There's nothing unusual in taking a long break like Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad have done. I saw the action between Armando Santa Cruz and Joel Casamayor, and I believe that at this point I do better."
Morales is one of my favorite fighters ever, and even I know that he has absolutely no business being in a ring anymore.
 

inter tatters

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Calzaghe-Hopkins has been confirmed for April 19th at the Thomas and Mack Centre in Las Vegas.

While there won't be quite the same number of Calzaghe fans as there were for Hatton (quite simply, there are more Englishmen than Welshmen with the money to afford the trip more than anything else, not to mention that there are approximately 8-times more Englishmen anyway!), but I can guarantee that there will be a massive group of singing Welshmen in Las Vegas making plenty of noise for the fight. The atmosphere inside the Millenium Stadium when 50,000+ turned up for the Kessler fight was just astounding. The Welsh just sing their hearts out, and nothing as boring as 'There's only one Ricky Hatton' either, they actually sing songs which should make for a great atmosphere.

As for the fight itself, will the extra weight hurt Calzaghe's legendary hand-speed? Will Hopkins turn it into another boring defensive battle? I hope Hopkins comes to fight and Joe uses that speed to pick him off all night long.
 

BGrif21125

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As for the fight itself, will the extra weight hurt Calzaghe's legendary hand-speed?
If he comes in at a higher weight, then it could. One of my pet peeves is that when fighters move up in weight, sometimes they act like that means they HAVE to put on the extra weight, which of course they don't technically have to do.
Calzaghe has been undefeated at 168, he should come in as close to 168 as possible, because that's the weight he's best at. For example, I thought Winky made a huge mistake when he fought Hopkins and weighed-in right at the agreed-upon 170 pounds. Winky should have come in closer to 160, a weight he has experience at. Conversely, I thought Mayweather was smart against Oscar when he weighed-in only a pound or two above his usual 147. A lot of fighters would have put on the full 7 pounds and weighed 154.

Will Hopkins turn it into another boring defensive battle? I hope Hopkins comes to fight and Joe uses that speed to pick him off all night long.
Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Hopkins will fight like Hopkins. I expect this to be an intriguing fight, but a very ugly one.

Two other notes on this:
1. This is a non-title fight. Goes to show how little belts mean anymore. Hopkins doesn't own any of the 4 light heavyweight belts. The only belt he has is the Ring belt, which is of course the only one that has any validity these days.

2. Let's hope Frank Warren does the right thing and finds a spot for Amir Khan on the undercard. This is the perfect opportunity to give Khan a chance to fight in front of a big Vegas crowd, which could be a tremendously valuable learning experience. It'll also give him exposure to the US fans and increase his future marketability.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Two other notes on this:
1. This is a non-title fight. Goes to show how little belts mean anymore. Hopkins doesn't own any of the 4 light heavyweight belts. The only belt he has is the Ring belt, which is of course the only one that has any validity these days.

Yeah, and it's not just the Ring belt. Hopkins is the "linear" champion. He beat Tarver who beat Roy Jones who was the true, unified champion. So to call this a "non-title" fight is kind of silly, though technically true. Hopkins is the man who beat the man who beat the man. If Calzaghe beats Hopkins, he's the man. That's how boxing was meant to be.
 

eddiew112

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I will make my pick in the Calzaghe-Hopkins fight now: Calzaghe by UD.

Sad to see that news about Morales. He lost his last four fights....someone needs to help him see the writing on the wall.
 

inter tatters

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2. Let's hope Frank Warren does the right thing and finds a spot for Amir Khan on the undercard. This is the perfect opportunity to give Khan a chance to fight in front of a big Vegas crowd, which could be a tremendously valuable learning experience. It'll also give him exposure to the US fans and increase his future marketability.
This is going to be the biggie for Warren IMO. I'm sure he would love to have Khan on the undercard, as would Setanta to get more viewers for the broadcast, but Khan is such big new over here he has only fought on an undercard ONCE in his career, and that was his 1st fight! He has his own shows broadcast on the terrestrial Channel ITV and I wonder whether they have an exclusive deal with him, hence why he was on the same night as Hatton-Mayweather in a different Country and with more viewers (Hatton was a PPV at 4am, Khan was free at 10pm GMT, so not exactly surprising).

As the Calzaghe-Hopkins fight is on the smaller Setanta channel, I wonder whether they will try and swing a deal with ITV, or whether Khan will be left off the bill completely as ITV enforce any contract they have with him. It would be a shame, but the politics of British TV mean it is a distinct possibility. ITV probably still hold a grudge against Setanta for selling the highlights of the Calzacghe-Kessler fight to their main terrestrial rival the BBC, who hadn't broadcast a professional fight in nearly 4 years prior to that one!
 

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This is going to be the biggie for Warren IMO. I'm sure he would love to have Khan on the undercard, as would Setanta to get more viewers for the broadcast, but Khan is such big new over here he has only fought on an undercard ONCE in his career, and that was his 1st fight!
He was on the undercard of Calzaghe-Manfredo last April. I seem to remember him in against some kid who just did a Carl Lewis until Khan finally caught up with him. I think that was his US TV debut and it was a bust, not because of anything he did wrong, but because of the ridiculous opponent that Warren put in front of him.

SOME NEW NEWS: This is a surprise, at least to me. Jones-Trinidad reportedly did over 500,000 PPV buys. Kind of amazing. I would guess its mainly due to Trinidad. His previous fight, in which he was dominated by Winky Wright, did 575,000 and was the biggest PPV fight of the year 2005. And that was before boxing had its "comeback." Even though Jones-Trindad wasn't the most scintillating fight (though I thought it was good) and a meaningless matchup of two old-timers, I guess it's a good sign fort boxing to see these kind of numbers. I'll be very interested to see what Taylor-Pavlik II does. As far as I'm concerned, that fight has no business being on PPV. Taylor has no fan base and Pavlik, while he does have a fan base, is very much a local fighter. Are there really enough people in Youngstown to support a major PPV card. I fear that one will be lucky to break 250K.

After that, Calzaghe-Kessler in April and De La Hoya vs. Somebody in May -- on regular HBO. It'll be nice to get a break from PPV and still see some big fights!
 

BGrif21125

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I was surprised to see that 500K PPV figure. I was predicting somewhere in the mid-to-high 300s. Very impressive. Probably came down to 2 factors:

1. Casual fans value name recognition. While those of us who follow the sport obsessively were spending all our time talking about how both guys were shot, the casual fan looked at Jones-Trinidad and saw two recognizable names, and didn't bother thinking too much about what each guy had done (or not done) lately. And it paid off, since it was a better fight than expected.

2. It was the first significant fight in 6 weeks, so the hardcore crowd that was skeptical about the fight probably caved in anyway and ordered, simply because they were itching to watch a fight after 6 long weeks without one.

Regardless, good start to the year.

I'll be very interested to see what Taylor-Pavlik II does. As far as I'm concerned, that fight has no business being on PPV. Taylor has no fan base and Pavlik, while he does have a fan base, is very much a local fighter. Are there really enough people in Youngstown to support a major PPV card. I fear that one will be lucky to break 250K.
I think HBO and the promoters got a little carried away with this one. The first fight was obviously a great fight, but I think everyone went a little overboard, not just in moving it to PPV, but also moving it to Vegas. The first fight was marketedly perfectly, in an East Coast venue, and as a regular HBO telecast that got PPV-like treatment (Countdown preview special, etc.). They should have just stayed with that formula.

All I can think of is.... maybe HBO/Arum are banking on the fact that by 2/16, the NFL will be done, baseball hasn't started yet, March Madness hasn't started yet, etc. It's a fairly dead time for sports.
 

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I was surprised to see that 500K PPV figure. I was predicting somewhere in the mid-to-high 300s. Very impressive. Probably came down to 2 factors:

1. Casual fans value name recognition. While those of us who follow the sport obsessively were spending all our time talking about how both guys were shot, the casual fan looked at Jones-Trinidad and saw two recognizable names, and didn't bother thinking too much about what each guy had done (or not done) lately. And it paid off, since it was a better fight than expected.

2. It was the first significant fight in 6 weeks, so the hardcore crowd that was skeptical about the fight probably caved in anyway and ordered, simply because they were itching to watch a fight after 6 long weeks without one.

Regardless, good start to the year.
I think HBO and the promoters got a little carried away with this one. The first fight was obviously a great fight, but I think everyone went a little overboard, not just in moving it to PPV, but also moving it to Vegas. The first fight was marketedly perfectly, in an East Coast venue, and as a regular HBO telecast that got PPV-like treatment (Countdown preview special, etc.). They should have just stayed with that formula.

All I can think of is.... maybe HBO/Arum are banking on the fact that by 2/16, the NFL will be done, baseball hasn't started yet, March Madness hasn't started yet, etc. It's a fairly dead time for sports.
There is that, but I do think that putting this on PPV and, as you point out, in Vegas is going WAY overboard. While this has the potential to be, like the first one, one of the most exciting fights of the year, I think that financially it will be one of the worst. Unfortunate, because I like the momentum that boxing has going for itself right now. The 500K buys for Jones-Tito surprised but didn't shock me. Of course people want "names" and that's why this fight got hyped on ESPN to an extent and in the mainstream media. And of course, Tito remains an icon in the Puerto Rican community. It seems almsot like being a Tito fan in Puerto Rico is like being a hockey fan in Canada. Just as there are Canadians who don't even like sports who are hockey fans, Tito seems like kind of a national religion down there. As I mentioned, his fight with Winky drew 575,000 buys in 2005, still boxing's dead period.

The 12K attendance at MSG was somewhat telling, though it had alot to do with the overpriced tickets. Needless to say, many of those 12K were part of Don King's papering efforts. And still, 12K is less than the 14.5K that the last fight I attended at MSG drew, which was Klitschko-Brock.
 

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The fight that will be really interesting to me in terms of PPV buys will be Pacquiao-Marquez II. That's obviously a 99.99th percentile fight in terms of substance and significance, and if it resembles the first matchup at all, then it will be an instant Fight of the Year candidate.

But it's two non-English speakers in a lower weight class that Americans traditionally don't care too much about. I'm thinking it will get somewhere in the 300-400K range. If it can do better than that, then that will be a good sign that fan interest is on the upswing.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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The fight that will be really interesting to me in terms of PPV buys will be Pacquiao-Marquez II. That's obviously a 99.99th percentile fight in terms of substance and significance, and if it resembles the first matchup at all, then it will be an instant Fight of the Year candidate.

But it's two non-English speakers in a lower weight class that Americans traditionally don't care too much about. I'm thinking it will get somewhere in the 300-400K range. If it can do better than that, then that will be a good sign that fan interest is on the upswing.
I'm gonna guess 350, which is about right for this type of "fight fans' fight."
 

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It's official, April 12th will be a doubleheader, Cotto-Gomez and Cintron-Margarito II. First off, that's a great HBO doubleheader. And it means that in back-to-back weeks, we'll get those two fights plus Calzaghe-Hopkins, all for free.

Also:
At stake besides the title for Cintron and Margarito: a July 26 big-money date with Cotto, as long as he takes care of business against Gomez.

The July fight will take place at either New York's Madison Square Garden or Yankee Stadium, Top Rank President Todd duBoef told ESPN.com.
Cotto-Cintron would be an all-Puerto Rican fight, which would obviously have big appeal in NYC, but I don't see how it's big enough to be a Yankee Stadium fight. MSG seems much more logical.
 

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I believe Zab wanted more money than Arum was willing to pay.
Yup, in fact he called Arum's offer "insulting." Maybe it was, I have no idea. But Zab has not won a significant fight since February of 2005 and even his last two insignificant fights have been lackluster decision victories. I'm not sure what kind of offers he expects.

As for a Yankee Stadium fight between Cotto and Cintron or Margarito, I just don't see it, unless Arum kept ticket prices extremely low. Anyway, there is only one available July Saturday at Yankee Stadium, July 26 (the Yankees are also on the road July 12, but with the All-Star game at the Stadium that following Tuesday, I don't think the Stadium would be available for a boxing match).

Looks like a good year for boxing at MSG -- just like the old days. We already had Jones-Trinidad. Klitschko-Ibragimov, the first heavyweight unification fight in almost a decade, is coming up Feb. 23. Kelly Pavlik vs. John Duddy is slated for June, which I think will draw a sellout crowd, and now this Cotto fight in July. And that still leaves five more months of the year. I hope I can catch at least one of those cards in person!
 

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Just a quick request NOT to post spoilers on the Chambers-Povetkin fight tonight. HBO is airing the fight on a tape-delayed basis, so just in case anyone's checking back in here, could we hold off on mentioning the result or commenting on the fight until about 12:30 am US eastern time?

Thanks!!

This should be a very interesting fight, and it's a good start to HBO's new season of Boxing After Dark. Two young fighters, matched against each other, on their way up. That's what B.A.D. was always supposed to be.
 

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DVR'd Chambers-Povetkin and watched it today.

Everytime I watch a heavyweight fight these days, I'm basically looking to get one question answered: "Can either of these guys do anything to put a scare into Wlad?"

The answer from this fight was definitely No.

Chambers is a decent fighter, and he does have very fast hands, but he doesn't have enough of a workrate to take advantage of his speed. He's a finesse fighter with the workrate of a one-punch KO fighter. So as a result, he allows himself to get outworked, and he can't change the momentum with one punch. I could see him being a smaller version of Jameel McCline... in other words, a guy who never gets blown out, but lets himself get outworked in every big fight.

Povetkin is a nice fighter, but I'm not sure I see the elite prospect that some media members have touted him as. His punches aren't that crisp, doesn't have a great jab, doesn't block many punches (Chambers landed at a ridiculously high %), etc. The heavyweight division is a "weapons" division, and I don't see where Povetkin has any explosive weapons. He didn't land more than 5 flush damaging punches all night, he won strictly by throwing punches and winning on activity. And he's already 28 years old, so I'm not sure that he has that much room for improvement, despite the fact that heavyweights hit their peak much later than other fighters.
 

CrouchingTonyHiddenPena

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Spot on regarding Povetkin. Lewis (I think) said it best when he said that Povetkin realized that he could throw a combination of any kind nearing the later rounds, knowing Chambers would simply defend and shrink back. Kind of a 'the best defense...' axiom epitomized. All-in-all this fight frustrated the living hell out of me.

I thought Chambers had fast hands, impeccable defense, and raw power when he actually used it. What pissed me off was his apparent lack of work ethic. He literally took combinations from Povetkin without reacting at all most times, and at other points he would react with one successful punch and not follow up on it. I wanted to yell "PUNCH THE FUCKING GUY!" at the TV numerous times. Chambers has the talent to be really good, but he blew a golden one with this fight.
 

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I was in the same boat -- thought Chambers looked really sharp with some crisp RH counters but he simply stopped throwing after the 5th round... if he had only attempted to do half of what his corner begged him to do then this would've been a close bout. Very frustrating to watch. Povetkin, on the other hand, reminded me of a heavyweight version of Ricky Hatton minus the incessent clinching. I think Wlad steamrolls either of these guys... if Chambers could bust up Povetkins face with few solid rights in 12 listless rounds I can't imagine Povetkin would have much of an answer to a sustained jackhammer jab and a legit RH'ed power shot.
 

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I was in the same boat -- thought Chambers looked really sharp with some crisp RH counters but he simply stopped throwing after the 5th round... if he had only attempted to do half of what his corner begged him to do then this would've been a close bout.

I gotta agree with everything that's been said about this fight. Chambers performance was incrediby aggravating. It's like watching a pitcher with strikeout velocity nibble at the corners until he's walked the ballpark and been pulled from the game. The only thing I'd slightly disagree with is the statement that this would have been a close fight if Chambers did everything his corner told him to. I think that if he did everything his father and Buddy McGirt told him to do, I think Chambers would have won a landslide decision, maybe even a late stoppage. His hand speed was way too much for Povetkin and in those first four rounds, Chambers landed at will. Yeah, he doesn't have knockout punching power, but as Floyd Mayweather proves, speed kills in boxing. Heavyweights never see that kind of hand speed and I can't think of anyone in the division who could really deal with it.

Problem was, as everyone saw, Chambers just stopped fighting after about round four. He showed hints of a comeback in round 10 when he straightened Povetkin up with a pinpoint uppercut. Unfortunately, he just backed off to, as they say, "admire his work" and that was the end of that.

If Chambers would actually FIGHT, I won't say he could beat Wlad who's just got too much size and power. But I think he would present some significant problems, just because of the hand speed and accuracy. If there's one flaw that we know Klitschko has, it's that he doesn't take getting hit very well. That's why Emanuel Steward taught him to clinch so much. I think Chamber would land a lot more shots on Klitschko than he's used to. Eventually, Wlad's vast size advantage would prove definitive. But I think it would be a good fight.

Unfortunately, Chambers looks like he just doesn't want to fight. Some boxers have that intangible thing that makes them love fighting. Others don't.

As for Povetkin, right now his management is trash-talking Klitschko, saying that Wlad's handlers will do anything to avoid fighting this mandatory (assuming as most everyone does that Wlad gets by Ibragimov on Feb. 23). I say, if Wlad doesn't want to fight Povetkin, that would be the best thing -- for Povetkin.

This guy's a pretty good young heavyweight, but he needs a LOT more experience before he gets in there with Klitschko. With his defense, or lack thereof, I don't know if he'd last as long as Ray Austin. I could see a highlight-reel knockout in that fight. If I were Povetkin's handlers, I'd put that fight off as long as I could and get my guy four or five more fights against decent, gatekeeper-type heavies of the Dominick Guinn-Jameel McCline variety, working his way up to someone like Calvin Brock or Hasim Rahman.

And then I STILL wouldn't put him in with Klitschko. I'd have him go for one of the other belts. Maybe give him a shot at Ruslan Chagaev (if Chagaev still holds his belt by that time). Assuming he wins, then and only then would I let him take a shot at Klitschko. By then Povetkin would have the high-level experience and Klitschko would be a couple of years older. So maybe the youngster would have an outside chance at that point.
 

BGrif21125

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I've read in a few places that people expect Povetkin's handlers to hold off on the Klitschko fight for now, which is the smart thing to do.

If Wlad beats Ibragimov (and I expect him to do so rather easily), and if Povetkin passes on the chance to fight Wlad, then I would not be shocked at all to see Wlad fight... (hold your laughter)... Andrew Golota.

Golota may be a full-blown psycho and the biggest waste of talent of the past 20 years, but he also has name-recognition, and a very loyal Polish-American fanbase that would buy up plenty of tickets for a fight at MSG.
 

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I've read in a few places that people expect Povetkin's handlers to hold off on the Klitschko fight for now, which is the smart thing to do.

If Wlad beats Ibragimov (and I expect him to do so rather easily), and if Povetkin passes on the chance to fight Wlad, then I would not be shocked at all to see Wlad fight... (hold your laughter)... Andrew Golota.

Golota may be a full-blown psycho and the biggest waste of talent of the past 20 years, but he also has name-recognition, and a very loyal Polish-American fanbase that would buy up plenty of tickets for a fight at MSG.
Interesting -- I hadn't thought of that, but I'll bet you're right!

That is, unless he can get a unification against the Peter-Maskaev winner. I think he'd go for that first. I do get the impression that Wlad considers himself a "sportsman" in the European tradition and that it's not only about the money with him. I believe that he genuinely wants to unify the heavyweight belts.

Whatever happens, I hope we see Wlad fight more than twice this year. A good heavyweight champion needs to be out there at least three, preferably four times a year. Wlad isn't taking a lot of punishment in any of his fights, so I don't see why he couldn't get in the ring in February, June, September then December.
 

BGrif21125

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That is, unless he can get a unification against the Peter-Maskaev winner. I think he'd go for that first. I do get the impression that Wlad considers himself a "sportsman" in the European tradition and that it's not only about the money with him. I believe that he genuinely wants to unify the heavyweight belts.
I believe the Peter-Maskaev winner is still contractually obligated to fight Vitali first. I'm almost sure that there is at least one contractual fight that's still sitting in the way of Wlad vs. Peter/Maskaev.
 

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Bit of a surprise, but a welcome one all the same. Frank Warren has won the purse bid for the WBO Super-Featherweight title fight between Joan Guzman and 'Interim' Champ Alex Arthur, so the fight will probably be held somewhere in Scotland. I'm still surprised Guzman didn't go up in weight as was rumoured, but it'll be great to see him over here.

BBC Link
 

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Ricky Hatton still in a state of denial:

“I'd rather give credit to Floyd than blame the referee,” he said. “But this is not just me feeling sorry for myself and finding something to complain about. I have a lot of respect for Mr Cortez. Maybe he just had an off-night. And I was a little bit over-keen, over-eager and I made the cardinal sin of losing my composure. But I thought I could have won the fight, yet I started having arguments mid-round with the referee. I'd never done that in 43 fights. Floyd would be turning his back and I'd be saying: ‘Where do you want me to hit him when he's doing that?' It got to the point where I thought, ‘I'm scared of hitting him in case I get warned'.

Most experts didn’t give Hatton much of a chance in December, and they don’t give him much of a chance in a rematch. Hatton says Collazo and Phillips were tougher fights.

“I've honestly had tougher fights. Like any great champion, Floyd found the right punches at the right time. When I fought Vince Phillips and Luis Collazo, I wasn't in the best shape afterwards, I was sore and really tired. Even after being knocked out by Floyd, I don't think it was a physically demanding fight; I'd felt worse after six-rounders."
He's saying he wants a rematch with Floyd.

Shane Mosley looks like he'll fight May 17 against -- Ricardo Mayorga. Well, all the other top welters are already booked, so I guess this fight should at least be entertaining. I also expect it means that Shane will go back up to 154 or a catch weight. And hopefully this will be on regular HBO, not PPV. But I have to say, 2008 is off to a somewhat sputtering start. Some good fights lined up, no great ones (except maybe Pacquiao-Marquez II), and of course the useless DLH-Mayweather II.

Also, it looks like Don King may still be maneuvering to halt the Juan Diaz-Nate Campbell bout scheduled as the HBO Peter-Maskaev co-feature March 8.
 

inter tatters

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In case anyone hadn't heard, Amir Khan has had a late (well it was last week actually) opponent change for his fight tomorrow night, and quite a significant one at that. Martin Kristjansen has had to pull out due to injury and in his place comes former IBF Super-Featherweight Champ Gairy St-Clair.

St-Clair has never been stopped in his 46 fights, so this will be quite a stern test for Khan, who is of course predicting that he will be the 1st to do so. The way he's boxed so far, I wouldn't doubt him either!