I mean, wilder's corner had 0 answer for a basic ass 1-2 the entire fight. They wouldn't make it on the plane if i was his business manager.Fury’s hand speed for someone that looks like him and is as big as him impresses me.
Some? Almost all of them.Wilder is a one trick pony who never thought to use a second move. With Fury’s partying he should’ve been throwing hooks or at least double jabs.
I will say I thought some of the early punches and the first knockdown were on punches behind Wilders Head
Yeah I thought Bayless was doing Wilder a favor on some of the breaks, and giving him a lot of time to recover while talking to both fighters and I also thought some of those slips were technically knockdowns, but missing a couple of those hard shots well behind the ear was unforgivable.Some? Almost all of them.
I'll add this fight has really crystalized how much ive become disconnected with boxing. Seeing those two in the ring with each gave me serious Sadam Ali-Muniguia vibes. The difference in size was too much for me to get into this.
Also, Balboa v Creed II and Balboa v Lang II.Fighters change their styles all the time. Maybe the most famous fight of all time - Ali v Frazier is a perfect example of that.
I didn't watch the fight or aftermath yet. Did Fury really give the speech from Rocky IV?Yeah. I came into tonight wanting Wilder to win, but Fury completely won me over. If I can change, and you can change...
I didn’t see the fight but from what I gather this morning from all the accounts, his corner also left him out there too long, maybe to the point of permanent injury or worse. I know it’s hard to throw in the towel in a heavyweight prize fight but if you gotta do it...I mean, wilder's corner had 0 answer for a basic ass 1-2 the entire fight. They wouldn't make it on the plane if i was his business manager.
I’m nowhere near a boxing expert, but how could Tyson even get to Fury with the huge difference in height and reach? Doesn’t seem like a debate to me.So in their primes, which Tyson wins: Mike or Fury?
Smaller guys often are able to find their way inside against bigger, longer opponents.I’m nowhere near a boxing expert, but how could Tyson even get to Fury with the huge difference in height and reach? Doesn’t seem like a debate to me.
Rock's strategy was always to block power punches with his face.Also, Balboa v Creed II and Balboa v Lang II.
I don't see the need for a new weight division. There is a weight where the gain in power and strength no longer compensates for the loss in hand speed and stamina and historically the point of dimishing returns is south of 220. In their primes, Louis and Foreman weighed 215, Ali 210 and Frazier 205. During their eras, there was no rule against big people participating in boxing. There are no longer great American heavyweights which is why the European giants have taken over the sport.Yeah I thought Bayless was doing Wilder a favor on some of the breaks, and giving him a lot of time to recover while talking to both fighters and I also thought some of those slips were technically knockdowns, but missing a couple of those hard shots well behind the ear was unforgivable.
And I say that with all respect to what Fury did. He came out, called his shot, and enforced his will. He ate 3-4 big right hands from a fresh Wilder and didn’t blink, sat on his punches, threw monstrous right hooks to the body, leaned on Wilder, shielded Bayless and then choked Wilder and did everything really well. But, those early shots behind the head...
I also don’t see why boxing doesn’t have a 221 or 231 division. I’ve been saying that since Lewis/Klitschko. I think Fury is very talented, but there’s a whole waste of guys like Chris Byrd or Vasily Jirov who would’ve been great heavyweights in the 70s or 90s that just had no shot once the 240+ dudes came in.
No offense, but you’re spouting a ton of nonsense in this thread. Frazier was absolutely murdered by Foreman. He’d have no shot against Fury.I don't see the need for a new weight division. There is a weight where the gain in power and strength no longer compensates for the loss in hand speed and stamina and historically the point of dimishing returns is south of 220. In their primes, Louis and Foreman weighed 215, Ali 210 and Frazier 205. During their eras, there was no rule against big people participating in boxing. There are no longer great American heavyweights which is why the European giants have taken over the sport.
I would take Frazier over Fury all day long. He could pound Fury with left hooks to body at will and go headhunting when Fury when dropped his right hand to stop the body shots. Frazier was also a machine, he seemed to get stronger as the fight wore on.
Ah! Sometimes he blocked them with his ribs, though!Rock's strategy was always to block power punches with his face.
Rocky’s opponents always landed like 90% of their power punches.Ah! Sometimes he blocked them with his ribs, though!
Frazier was never the same after the first Ali fight and Fury doesn't nearly have the pop that Foreman had. If size is everything, there should be some NFL linemen that could kick Fury's ass.No offense, but you’re spouting a ton of nonsense in this thread. Frazier was absolutely murdered by Foreman. He’d have no shot against Fury.
I’m not trying to insult you, but your first point was that fighters can’t change styles, which just isn’t true as proved last night.Frazier was never the same after the first Ali fight and Fury doesn't nearly have the pop that Foreman had. If size is everything, there should be some NFL linemen that could kick Fury's ass.
I post in a lot of different forums and I never insult people.
I don't believe that Fury necessarily changed his style; it was more of a strategy to be more aggressive compared to their first fight.I’m not trying to insult you, but your first point was that fighters can’t change styles, which just isn’t true as proved last night.
Frazier was a decent fighter, but even Oscar Bonavena put him down twice. Tyson Fury would knock Frazier out in a round or two.
I also disagree that the Fury of last night didn’t have Foreman’s pop. Foreman committed to his punches way more than Fury used to, but the 270 pound Fury of last night who sat on his punches absolutely hits as hard as George.
In what division does the current crop not match up besides heavyweights? Because there have been great fighters for the last two decades from 122-154.I don't believe that Fury necessarily changed his style; it was more of a strategy to be more aggressive compared to their first fight.
Frazier was a decent fighter? I don't know if you're writing him off because of his size, but his skill level was off the charts compared to today's fighters. A fighter being much larger doesn't negate those skills. Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper knocked Ali down and guy named Tony "Two Ton" Galento knocked down Louis so I'm not sure what that tells you. Over a long career there will be some lucky punches.
Fury is not a power puncher. He connects with a lot of punches, but has only has 20 KOs in 30 fights. When Foreman connected with a power punch the fight didn't last much longer.
If you do some research regarding the comparison of the great fighters of the '70s and '80s to today's champions, made by trainers, ex-fighters and boxing historians most believe the current crop doesn't matchup.
You didn't address my point as to why there were never huge fighters until fairly recently. At one time, boxing was the only possible ticket for escaping poverty for many athletes. Were the big guys sent packing when they showed up at the boxing gym?
Agreed with all this. Prime Klitschkos as well.I think Fury would have some real problems with skilled heavyweights like Holmes, Ali and Lewis. Riddick Bowe who trains would be a bad matchup for him too. Mike T might be too short.
Though not traditional, wasnt Tysons uppercut his counter to guys that tied him up?Agreed with all this. Prime Klitschkos as well.
Tyson never developed an sort of jab or ability to counter fighters who tied him up inside. That’s why he lost twice to Holyfield, and even though he was past his prime, also to Lewis and McBride.
If he was throwing the uppercut, he wasn’t tied up. Holyfield and Lewis tied him up the second he got inside. Other guys left his hands free and that’s why he was able to throw that hook to body, uppercut combo.Though not traditional, wasnt Tysons uppercut his counter to guys that tied him up?
Not a doctor, but fatigue doesn't make sense to me at all. He couldn't walk or stand up straight. Had to be a concussion or some sort of equilibrium problem from being belted in the ear area, even if his drum wasn't busted.So was he concussed or just really out of shape.
It must’ve been I guess. I can’t really remember something else like that where a fighter was goofy for that long. And Wilder usually recuperates pretty quick.Not a doctor, but fatigue doesn't make sense to me at all. He couldn't walk or stand up straight. Had to be a concussion or some sort of equilibrium problem from being belted in the ear area, even if his drum wasn't busted.
I agree. His post-fight speech was pitch perfect, considering the circumstances. I've worn 45-lb weight vests. Yeah, it's a little uncomfortable, but it's not the end of the world to wear one for a few minutes (they showed him air sparring in the locker room just before his walk, so he had it on for the the minimum amount of time necessary. I'm also not in his condition. Weak excuse.Ugh I like Wilder and really respected how he handled himself in the aftermath, so I wish he wouldn’t do that.
No way he wouldn’t have had to try that on beforehand and see it’s weight. And I’ve seen dozens of non worldclass, well under 200 pound people train with 50 pound weight vests on. A pro boxer gets worn out by that? Nah.
Plus, he was in the ring standing still for how long out of costume during the announcements and anthems? This is one of the lamest excuses I’ve ever heard.
I’m not sure he could. Peak Tyson couldn’t really catch up to Quick Tillis, and Fury is bigger, better and smarter.Peak Mke Tson either gets an early knockout or loses in the 7th 8th. There is a pretty good chance if got inside TGK's rsch he puts him out.
Interesting point. Unless something tragic happens, though, I imagine they’d fight again regardless because the heavyweight division is still pretty barren.I wonder how much of a payday Wilder would have passed up if he hadn't exercised the rematch clause.
Probably hard to do in a career like that, even if he would perform better with more time and a rebuild. Delaying increases the chance a rematch never happens.
That’s a fair point with Fury’s history. Obviously - as we’ve seen with Josh Gordon and so many others - it’s a lifelong, daily battle. But, Fury seems to have a solid support group, including his wife and young children, and to relish not only the spotlight the titles have afforded him, but his status as a role model for people with mental health and addiction issues.That all makes sense. Still, with Fury's substance abuse history, I think I'd really want to cash that check sooner rather than later. And once Joshua becomes available, who knows how much the timeline could get stretched out?
I don't know much about boxing, but this sounds right to me. And I do wish Wilder would have waited and refined his skills some more, assuming he can refine his skills some more.It’s nice to have a bit of an Ali/Frazier/Foreman set up. But, just like Frazier could never beat Foreman but always give Ali close fights, I’m thinking Wilder will never beat Fury, but be very competitive with Joshua, if not outright beat him.
He’s an unbelievably skilled boxer. It’s literally in his blood, though. He’s supposedly related to Bartley Gorman, among other gypsy boxing champs.I don't know much about boxing, but this sounds right to me. And I do wish Wilder would have waited and refined his skills some more, assuming he can refine his skills some more.
I'm a Fury fan. I hope he can keep his demons at bay and continue fighting for a long time. I'm still amazed at how much skill and ability that giant man has, and hows much he can change his style based on the needs of a given fight.
Of course, the genes also help insofar as he got very early exposure to a sport where most people in his weight class don’t start until flunking out of other sports in high school or college.I haven't followed underground boxing very much at all, though some of those names are familiar.
That is an awesome video. Lot to be said for great genes and special talent.
Yes, exactly. Well put. I've met, not many, but a few dangerous people. Sometimes you just know.That’s a dude you meet and just yessir, excuse me sir, whatever you say sir. I have no illusions that even at whatever age he is in that video he couldn’t rip my heart out of my chest, and you can tell without even knowing his name or story.