SOSH Running Dogs

[underhandtofirst]

Finished the treadmill 10 miles... 1:52 on the nose. The first 7 at 11:30 and the last 3 at 10:30... those last 3 miles I felt like Larry Fitzgerald passing the members of the Eagles' secondary.

For the race I may wait until 11 miles and try to finish even a little faster. We'll see.

That's amazing. 1:52 on a treadmill shows some kind of mental toughness to be able to get through it. If you were able to handle 10:30 the last 3, I bet you could do 11:00 the entire race, but its probably better to start slower and enjoy the feeling of finishing strong this time. You can cut it a bit closer next time.

Two more good runs, each for different reasons yet still disappointing. First the good.

9 Jan: 6:43 , 6:33, 7:10, 6:58, 6:56, 7:09, 6:51, 6:39 (0.30). A total of 7.3 miles, 166 avg HR. Best pace at this distance by :10/mile.
10 Jan: 6:58, 6:52, 7:53, 7:26, 7:41, 7:47, 7:34, 7:33, 7:45, 7:24 (0.62). A total of 9.62 miles, 161 avg HR. Best distance.

For this week then, a total of 32 miles (also a new PR) over five days. I'm hoping to hit 35+ this week in anticipation of the 5M on 25 Jan. Good thing next week is a taper week, I don't think that 35 miles on treadmills is going to happen when I visit merry old England. I usually run morning/evening since I find it hard to log much more than 5-7 miles on a treadmill.

So a few PRs for me. Problem is, I was trying to slow down my pace! On the first run I gave up early and concentrated on making sure my strides were long. With the second run, I had a 6:14 pace through the first 1/4 mile. I worked on getting my pace down a little more diligently. I was able to slow down a bit yet did not achieve the 8:30 goal pace. Even still it felt like I was plodding along as my strides were short. Is that the right way to slow down the pace?

I was pleasantly surprised that even the modest change to pacing made running the 9.6 easy. It seemed that 11-12 miles where possible if I had the additional time. Clearly I need to work on different paces.

The 6:48 is downhill for the last mile; the 9:15 is uphill with a steep grade (10% or so). In both cases, I was watching the Garmin closely to hold the 140-ish BPM. As that was my goal, I feel good about the run. I ran the treadmill today - 10M @ 8:23 pace. Definitely a comfortable pace. It's probably too long a run before Sunday's 5M but I couldn't help but feel guilty. I chose family fun over getting the last 14 miles of last weeks training. And I couldn't help myself, ran 1k at 5:45 pace just to see if I could at the end of my 10M. I really should read the board responses before I do things :buddy:.

I'll take it easy Wednesday, say 4M @ 8:00. Would Thur-Sat off be too much rest before Sunday? I feel like there ought to be one more run in there...

Also, given my 6:29 5k, care to suggest a target pace for the 5M? I think this race will be flatish as well.

I quoted an earlier post of yours regarding pace. Your first 5 miles on Jan 9th averaged 6:54, then you followed that with 6:54 pace over the last 2.30 miles. Unless that run was all downhill and you drove home from the bottom of the hill, I'd be stunned if you couldnt do 6:40 pace over 5M. Part of me wants to suggest 6:30, but I dont know exactly how 'comfortable' your runs really are so I'd hate to see you try that pace and crash.

Your 7.3 mile run from Jan 9th you had a avg HR of 166. So if you were able to keep your HR in the 140s downhill for the 6:48 pace from a few days ago that's a nice pace for you especially at the end of a run. And pushing in the last 1k of a 10M run at 5:45 is a nice ending.

Don't worry about the 10M a week out. It was at an easy pace (except for the 1k) so it shouldnt hurt you. A couple easy runs this week and you should be good to go. You could probably even handle some shorter intervals today just to get some speed in and you'll be ok as long as you dont wipe yourself out. In taper, you should keep the quality, but cut down on the quantity.

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

A quick question:
The forecast for Sunday has a chance of rain. The amusing irony of this is not wasted on me...

I've trained twice in the rain in the past 2 years. Any hints-tips-suggestions about running in the rain?

 

[underhandtofirst]

A quick question:
The forecast for Sunday has a chance of rain. The amusing irony of this is not wasted on me...

I've trained twice in the rain in the past 2 years. Any hints-tips-suggestions about running in the rain?

Everyone else is in the rain, so dont worry The sun wont be burning you up, so you've got that going for you.

Dont wear anything heavy like a sweatshirt or you'll feel like you're dragging a piano. Think positive thoughts about how the rain is helping you. An example, "This rain is helping keep me cool."

Be sure to keep drinking even if it is raining. Dont mistake feeling cool for not needing to drink fluid. Rain alone will not keep you hydrated, not even close.

Some of my best training runs ever were in the rain. It will be an even greater accomplishment to finish in less than ideal conditions.

 

[underhandtofirst]

My fitness is starting to come back. Actually, it seems to be coming back quickly the last 2 weeks or so. Hopefully this is a good omen for the rest of the year when I start adding more miles. I'm still targeting a 5k on Super Bowl Sunday. The goal is sub 20, but I'm starting to think I may even be able to PR (19:39).

w/u 1.5 @ 8:40 (very easy, this was downhill)
3 x 1 mile at 5k pace (6:37, 6:13, 6:22)
2 recoveries of about 4 min @ 10:30 pace
c/d 1.35 @ 9:00 (easy, uphill)

The mile intervals were done on a 1 mile stretch of road with some minor hills (+20 to -20 elevation change). HR at the end of each interval were 164, 172, 176. The recoveries took me down to 123 and 132.

Longer range is to build mileage slowly and run a 10k in early May. Then a month of relatively easy miles to hopefully get to 40 mpw to start an 18 week plan ending with a mid October marathon.

 

[BleacherFan]

My fitness is starting to come back. Actually, it seems to be coming back quickly the last 2 weeks or so. Hopefully this is a good omen for the rest of the year when I start adding more miles. I'm still targeting a 5k on Super Bowl Sunday. The goal is sub 20, but I'm starting to think I may even be able to PR (19:39).

w/u 1.5 @ 8:40 (very easy, this was downhill)
3 x 1 mile at 5k pace (6:37, 6:13, 6:22)
2 recoveries of about 4 min @ 10:30 pace
c/d 1.35 @ 9:00 (easy, uphill)

The mile intervals were done on a 1 mile stretch of road with some minor hills (+20 to -20 elevation change). HR at the end of each interval were 164, 172, 176. The recoveries took me down to 123 and 132.

Longer range is to build mileage slowly and run a 10k in early May. Then a month of relatively easy miles to hopefully get to 40 mpw to start an 18 week plan ending with a mid October marathon.

Nice job - if I remember correctly, there is a 10k in Westford and/or Groton around that time. It's been part of the Grand Prix the last few years but I think it got passed up this year. I think if the weather cooperates on Super bowl Sunday you could be close to 19 if you go out with a bunch of guys at that pace and hold on. I still haven't ruled it out this year - I have been doing my long runs on Saturday so I might be able to get by with 10 or so that day...

My legs were dogshit this morning. I did 85 miles last week and have done 12,10 and 14 mile days so far this week. It's par for the course I guess - I get these days when I build mileage up. As long as it doesn't last more than a day or so I should be ok.

Yesterday I did a 6 mile MP tempo run (target 6:00) on the Tufts indoor track: 6:12,5:44,5:52,5:52,5:46,5:30. Out of the 48 laps around the track, Nate was running against me about 40 of them . He was finishing up his workout with some cooldown miles.

 

[BleacherFan]

Passed a big test today - wanted to do a 9 mile (was going to be 10 but I had a slow commute) tempo at marathon pace. Talk about boring - 72 laps around the indoor track:

5:58,5:50,5:48,5:55,5:58,6:00,6:01,5:57,5:52

Legs started getting tired a little after 6 miles - but since my lungs were OK the whole time, I was overall happy with the workout. Considering the volume I've done recently (310 on 30 straight days of running), I'll take the tiredness towards the end of the run. I closed with an 82 second 400 so I felt I had more gas in the tank.

I have no idea if there are tempo run 'predictors' out there for a marathon - but so far, early on in training, I feel a 235-238 isn't a reach anymore.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I have an excel file with various paces and effort levels for a variety of distances I use to help with pacing. I'm much better at short distances, so it overestimates my times for longer races. But I use it to compare one workout to another and assess my fitness level. I have a similar chart for HR at different distances and effort levels. For some reason I cant find the original source now. I thought it was on the Team Oregon page, but no luck. I pounded on google for a while tonight, but still coming up empty. In any case, I copied them from my excel file. First is the pace chart, next it my HR chart. Obviously this is a guide. The 103% effort level was my 5k pace late last fall, it it predicted at 3:13 marathon. This was off by about 5 mins for me because I'm better at shorter distances. This chart may be more accurate for others. But this in conjuction with the next one on HR may help some assess their fitness from one month to the next.

Values for each distance are total time, pace per mile and pace per 400m (not quite 1/4 mile)

Pace - Effort Level

121

116

111

106

103

101

96

91

86

81

76

71

66

61

2mi

10:20

10:51

11:23

11:58

12:33

13:11

13:51

14:32

15:16

16:02

16:50

17:40

18:33

5:10

5:25

5:41

5:59

6:16

6:35

6:55

7:16

7:38

8:01

8:25

8:50

9:16

1:17

1:21

1:25

1:29

1:34

1:38

1:43

1:49

1:54

2:00

2:06

2:12

2:19

5km

16:33

17:23

18:15

19:10

20:07

21:08

22:11

23:18

24:28:00

25:41:00

26:58:00

28:19:00

29:44:00

3.1

5:19

5:35

5:52

6:10

6:28

6:48

7:08

7:30

7:52

8:16

8:40

9:07

9:34

1:19

1:23

1:28

1:32

1:37

1:42

1:47

1:52

1:58

2:04

2:10

2:16

2:23

6km

24:18:00

25:32:00

26:47:00

28:01:00

29:31:00

31:00:00

32:29:00

3.72

5:23

5:40

5:57

6:14

6:33

6:53

7:14

7:35

7:58

8:22

8:47

9:13

9:41

1:20

1:25

1:29

1:33

1:38

1:43

1:48

1:53

1:59

2:05

2:11

2:18

2:25

5mi

27:33:00

28:56:00

30:22:00

31:54:00

33:29:00

35:10:00

36:55:00

38:46:00

40:42:00

42:44:00

44:53:00

47:07:00

49:29:00

5:30

5:47

6:04

6:22

6:41

7:02

7:23

7:45

8:08

8:32

8:58

9:25

9:53

1:22

1:26

1:31

1:35

1:40

1:45

1:50

1:56

2:02

2:08

2:14

2:21

2:28

10km

34:46:00

36:30:00

38:20:00

40:15:00

42:15:00

44:22:00

46:35:00

48:55:00

51:22:00

53:56:00

56:38:00

59:28:00

1:02:26

6.2

5:35

5:52

6:10

6:28

6:48

7:08

7:29

7:52

8:16

8:40

9:06

9:34

10:02

1:23

1:28

1:32

1:37

1:42

1:47

1:52

1:58

2:04

2:10

2:16

2:23

2:30

12km

42:15:00

44:22:00

46:35:00

48:55:00

51:21:00

53:55:00

56:37:00

59:27:00

1:02:26

1:05:33

1:08:50

1:12:16

1:15:53

7.44

5:40

5:57

6:14

6:33

6:53

7:14

7:35

7:58

8:22

8:47

9:13

9:41

10:10

1:25

1:29

1:33

1:38

1:43

1:48

1:53

1:59

2:05

2:11

2:18

2:25

2:32

12.5km

44:07:00

46:21:00

48:40:00

51:06:00

53:39:00

56:19:00

59:08:00

1:02:06

1:05:12

1:08:28

1:11:53

1:15:29

1:19:15

7.79

5:40

5:57

6:15

6:34

6:54

7:15

7:36

7:59

8:23

8:48

9:15

9:43

10:12

1:25

1:29

1:33

1:38

1:43

1:48

1:54

1:59

2:05

2:12

2:18

2:25

2:33

15km

53:39:00

56:20:00

59:09:00

1:02:07

1:05:13

1:08:29

1:11:54

1:15:30

1:19:16

1:23:14

1:27:24

1:31:46

1:36:21

9.35

5:45

6:02

6:20

6:39

6:59

7:20

7:42

8:06

8:30

8:55

9:22

9:50

10:20

1:26

1:30

1:35

1:39

1:44

1:50

1:55

2:01

2:07

2:13

2:20

2:27

2:35

10mi

57:51:00

1:00:44

1:03:47

1:06:58

1:10:19

1:13:50

1:17:31

1:21:24

1:25:28

1:29:44

1:34:14

1:38:56

1:43:53

5:47

6:04

6:22

6:41

7:01

7:23

7:45

8:08

8:32

8:58

9:25

9:53

10:23

1:26

1:31

1:35

1:40

1:45

1:50

1:56

2:02

2:08

2:14

2:21

2:28

2:35

20km

1:13:00

1:16:39

1:20:29

1:24:30

1:28:44

1:33:10

1:37:49

1:42:43

1:47:51

1:53:15

1:58:54

2:04:51

2:11:06

12.46

5:52

6:10

6:28

6:47

7:08

7:29

7:52

8:15

8:40

9:06

9:34

10:02

10:32

1:28

1:32

1:37

1:41

1:47

1:52

1:58

2:03

2:10

2:16

2:23

2:30

2:38

13.1mi

1:17:17

1:21:09

1:25:13

1:29:28

1:33:57

1:38:39

1:43:35

1:48:45

1:54:12

1:59:54

2:05:54

2:12:12

2:18:48

5:53

6:11

6:30

6:49

7:10

7:31

7:54

8:17

8:42

9:08

9:36

10:05

10:35

1:28

1:32

1:37

1:42

1:47

1:52

1:58

2:04

2:10

2:17

2:24

2:31

2:38

25km

1:32:41

1:37:19

1:42:11

1:47:18

1:52:39

1:58:17

2:04:12

2:10:25

2:16:56

2:23:47

2:30:58

2:38:31

2:46:27

15.5

5:57

6:15

6:34

6:54

7:15

7:36

7:59

8:23

8:48

9:15

9:43

10:12

10:42

1:29

1:33

1:38

1:43

1:48

1:54

1:59

2:05

2:12

2:18

2:25

2:33

2:40

30km

1:52:39

1:58:17

2:04:12

2:10:24

2:16:56

2:23:46

2:30:58

2:38:31

2:46:26

2:54:46

3:03:30

3:12:40

3:22:18

18.6

6:02

6:20

6:39

6:59

7:20

7:42

8:05

8:30

8:55

9:22

9:50

10:20

10:51

1:30

1:35

1:39

1:44

1:50

1:55

2:01

2:07

2:13

2:20

2:27

2:35

2:42

20mi

2:01:27

2:07:31

2:13:54

2:20:36

2:27:38

2:35:00

2:42:46

2:50:54

2:59:27

3:08:25

3:17:50

3:27:44

3:38:07

6:04

6:22

6:41

7:01

7:22

7:45

8:08

8:32

8:58

9:25

9:53

10:23

10:54

1:31

1:35

1:40

1:45

1:50

1:56

2:02

2:08

2:14

2:21

2:28

2:35

2:43

40k

3:35:58

3:46:46

3:58:24

4:10:02

24.92

6:10

6:28

6:47

7:08

7:29

7:52

8:15

8:40

9:06

9:34

10:02

10:32

11:04

1:32

1:37

1:41

1:47

1:52

1:58

2:03

2:10

2:16

2:23

2:30

2:38

2:46

Marthn

2:42:16

2:50:23

2:58:54

3:07:51

3:13:29

3:17:15

3:27:06

3:37:28

3:48:20

3:59:45

4:11:45

4:24:20

4:37:33

4:51:25

6:11

6:29

6:49

7:09

7:23

7:31

7:53

8:17

8:42

9:08

9:36

10:04

10:35

11:06

1:32

1:37

1:42

1:47

1:52

1:58

2:04

2:10

2:17

2:24

2:31

2:38

2:46

 

[underhandtofirst]

This 100% corresponds to my HR at various paces. This ends up being close to my average over the distance. The 5k value isnt quite there, but that's because I havent really trained to get my vo2 max up high enough. I find this useful for pacing during races. I start off a little below the value and end above the number in the chart.

HR - Effort Level

%	113.5	108.5	103.5	101	100	99.5	99	98.5	96	93.5	91	88.5	85	83.5	81	80	78.5	76	75	73.5	71.5	70	68.5	63.5	58.5	53.5	48.5	43.5	38.5
2mi	205	196	188	185	184	183	182	181	178	174	171	167	163	161	158	157	155	152	151	149	146	145	143	138	133	129	124	120	116
5km (3.1)	199	191	184	181	180	179	178	177	174	170	167	163	159	157	154	153	151	149	147	146	143	142	140	135	131	126	122	118	114
6km (3.7)	198	190	182	179	178	177	176	175	172	169	166	162	158	156	153	152	150	148	146	145	142	141	139	134	130	125	121	117	113
5mi	194	187	179	176	175	174	173	172	169	166	163	159	155	153	151	149	148	145	144	142	140	139	137	132	128	123	119	115	111
10km (6.2)	192	184	177	174	173	172	171	170	167	164	161	157	153	152	149	148	146	144	143	141	139	138	136	131	126	122	118	114	110
12km (7.4)	190	182	175	172	171	171	170	169	166	162	159	156	152	150	148	146	145	142	141	139	137	136	134	130	125	121	117	113	109
15km (9.3)	188	180	173	170	169	169	168	167	164	160	157	154	150	148	146	144	143	141	140	138	136	135	133	128	124	120	116	112	108
10mi	187	180	173	170	169	168	167	166	163	160	157	154	150	148	145	144	142	140	139	137	135	134	132	128	123	119	115	111	108
20km (12.4)	185	177	171	168	167	166	165	164	161	158	155	152	148	146	144	142	141	139	138	136	134	133	131	126	122	118	114	110	107
13.1mi	184	177	170	167	166	166	165	164	161	157	154	151	147	146	144	142	141	138	137	135	133	132	131	126	122	118	114	110	107
25km (15.5)	182	175	169	166	165	164	163	162	159	156	153	150	146	145	142	141	139	137	136	134	132	131	130	125	121	117	113	109	106
30km (18.6)	181	174	167	164	163	163	162	161	158	154	152	149	145	143	141	139	138	136	135	133	131	130	128	124	120	116	112	108	105
20mi	180	173	166	163	162	162	161	160	157	154	151	148	144	143	141	139	138	136	135	133	131	130	128	124	119	115	112	108	105
Marthn	177	170	164	161	160	160	159	158	155	152	149	146	142	141	139	137	136	134	133	131	129	128	126	122	118	114	110	107	103

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

Race day is tomorrow! I hope I can sleep tonight... Just checking in to say thanks to the people here for sharing their wisdom.

Feeling very strong right now, so it will be the 11 minute pace group for me, and then see what's left at the 11 mile mark.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Race day is tomorrow! I hope I can sleep tonight... Just checking in to say thanks to the people here for sharing their wisdom.

Feeling very strong right now, so it will be the 11 minute pace group for me, and then see what's left at the 11 mile mark.

Good luck. Based on the workouts you've reported here I think you're going to find you have a little extra at the end. Enjoy the day!

 

[rbeaud]

I quoted an earlier post of yours regarding pace. Your first 5 miles on Jan 9th averaged 6:54, then you followed that with 6:54 pace over the last 2.30 miles. Unless that run was all downhill and you drove home from the bottom of the hill, I'd be stunned if you couldnt do 6:40 pace over 5M. Part of me wants to suggest 6:30, but I dont know exactly how 'comfortable' your runs really are so I'd hate to see you try that pace and crash.

Your 7.3 mile run from Jan 9th you had a avg HR of 166. So if you were able to keep your HR in the 140s downhill for the 6:48 pace from a few days ago that's a nice pace for you especially at the end of a run. And pushing in the last 1k of a 10M run at 5:45 is a nice ending.

Don't worry about the 10M a week out. It was at an easy pace (except for the 1k) so it shouldnt hurt you. A couple easy runs this week and you should be good to go. You could probably even handle some shorter intervals today just to get some speed in and you'll be ok as long as you dont wipe yourself out. In taper, you should keep the quality, but cut down on the quantity.

Seems you almost have me pegged. Ran treadmill 5k's at 24:30 (7:53 pace) and and then 21:30 (6:55 pace) prior to the 5M today. In the AM, grabbed some greek yogurt and honey plus 8 oz water two hours before start. Jogged the 1M+ to the race start at 130 bpm about 1 hour prior, signed up, and waited for the fun in 10 degree weather. I was very conscious of trying to hold the 6:40 pace target throughout the run (my Garmin earned it's keep!) to prevent crashing and burning (very easy to chase the leaders when the pack begins to spread out early). I did the following per the Garmin.

1M: 6:46 (157); 2M: 6:42 (170); 3M: 6:51 (173); 4M: 6:33 (176); 5M: 6:25 (181); 0.05: 5:36 (185). 33:29 (6:41 pace) total.

Did better at consistency. Got a little excited toward the race finish and picked up the pace .3M out as suggested. Unfortunately that was 5:45 or so, which meant that I was huffing and chuffing for the last .1 instead of sprinting to the finish. My kids didn't seem to notice . The tank was definitely dry after this race. Finished 5th overall and 1st for age 30-39 out of 84 runners. I think I may specialize in these cold races where no one seems to show up!

The odd thing is my regular runs suggest I should be able to do better, I think. I've run my more hilly 4.15 route at 6:42 pace. Probably has to do with the lack of varied paces in my running.

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

The Carlsbad 1/2 Marathon was not anything like I expected.

I beat my 2:30 goal by about 7 minutes, 2:22:48. My pace for the first 6.5 was 10:53 and the last 6.5 was 10:54. I just couldn't stay with the 2:30 pace group after the first mile and a half. I trained alone and I wanted to run the race on my own. It worked out well. I stayed within myself, even walked a couple times.

There was a new band, or a group of people cheering and holding awesome signs at every twist and turn or a big group of Japanese drummers... like nothing I imagined. High 5's with the spectators and laughing among the racers. Just a spectacular experience. I am really glad that I left the headphones home and got to experience every facet of the race.

2 things:
My nipples were a bloody pulp at the end of the race! Didn't feel a thing until 15 minutes after I finished. OUCH!

It was cold (about 55 at the finish). After I had been finished 10 minutes my lips were blue... my daughter was one of the spectators and she was also a cross country runner in high school. She recognized the situation and got me to the car and into something warm and dry. I didn't feel hot or cold and didn't even know that hypothermia could be an issue. Scary.

And finally:
I intend to run my next half in 2:00 flat. I really didn't push that hard during the race and I really didn't train that hard. I want to get serious. I am willing to pay the price for a 2 hour 1/2 Marathon. I can't imagine stopping there either, but a 2:00 half is next.

 

[underhandtofirst]

The Carlsbad 1/2 Marathon was not anything like I expected.

I beat my 2:30 goal by about 7 minutes, 2:22:48. My pace for the first 6.5 was 10:53 and the last 6.5 was 10:54. I just couldn't stay with the 2:30 pace group after the first mile and a half. I trained alone and I wanted to run the race on my own. It worked out well. I stayed within myself, even walked a couple times.

There was a new band, or a group of people cheering and holding awesome signs at every twist and turn or a big group of Japanese drummers... like nothing I imagined. High 5's with the spectators and laughing among the racers. Just a spectacular experience. I am really glad that I left the headphones home and got to experience every facet of the race.

It was cold (about 55 at the finish). After I had been finished 10 minutes my lips were blue... my daughter was one of the spectators and she was also a cross country runner in high school. She recognized the situation and got me to the car and into something warm and dry. I didn't feel hot or cold and didn't even know that hypothermia could be an issue. Scary.

And finally:
I intend to run my next half in 2:00 flat. I really didn't push that hard during the race and I really didn't train that hard. I want to get serious. I am willing to pay the price for a 2 hour 1/2 Marathon. I can't imagine stopping there either, but a 2:00 half is next.

Nice job. With the even splits, did you end up passing a lot of people late? That's a pretty big jump to go sub 2. That;s about 104 seconds per mile faster. One of my goals to bring my times down is to lose a couple lbs. I've read you gain 1-2 seconds per mile for each lb lost. Losing a couple lbs along with improved fitness will really help you improve. I know it has for me.

2 things:
My nipples were a bloody pulp at the end of the race! Didn't feel a thing until 15 minutes after I finished. OUCH!

You need this. I use it on every single run. Feet, legs, nipples. After I bled through a running shirt I found this stuff and it is gold.
Bodyglide

 

[AusTexSoxFan]

The 3M Half Marathon was yesterday so as part of my marathon training, I did 8 miles prior to running the race. Weather was around 40 degrees at 5:10am when I started and had warmed up a little at 7am when the half-marathon started. Luckily the sun came out and warmed up enough so that I could shed the running pants, fleece vest and gloves and just go with a wool hat, long sleeve t-shirt and shorts. That really made for ideal conditions and after running 1:04 in the first half, I really stretched things out and ripped off a nice sub 8:20 pace and finished the half in 1:59. It made me feel good that miles 15-21 on my run yesterday were the best miles I felt. Going another 5 miles was entirely doable.

Big thing was resting the whole week before. I didn't do anything mainly because I had a cold at the beginning of the week. Ended up working out. I'm think I'm ready!

Good job 5belongs! Bodyglide is good stuff but I'm a bit cheap and stay with the vaseline for my nipples and inside of my thighs. I just make sure I re-lube on the long runs.

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

Nice job. With the even splits, did you end up passing a lot of people late? That's a pretty big jump to go sub 2. That;s about 104 seconds per mile faster. One of my goals to bring my times down is to lose a couple lbs. I've read you gain 1-2 seconds per mile for each lb lost. Losing a couple lbs along with improved fitness will really help you improve. I know it has for me.
You need this. I use it on every single run. Feet, legs, nipples. After I bled through a running shirt I found this stuff and it is gold.
Bodyglide

For a sub 2:00 I need to run 9:00 minute miles. I know that is a big difference from what I did, but I am certain I didn't work hard enough in training or even during the race. I should be able to drop 15 pounds pretty quickly, so that will help. As far as I can tell, the rest of the time I need to gain is just wanting it. I went out with my boss last Thursday night and got hammered... not really the recommended training regime 2 nights before a race. Anyway, 2:00 is my next goal and I will pay the price to get there however long it takes.

I am looking at getting to 2:00 for either the La Jolla Shores Half on April 26th or America's Finest City Half on August 26. Whichever works.

I'll try that stuff... I was going to put band aids over my nipples next race.

edit:
I did pass quite a few people the last mile... I was looking for my wife in the crowd near the finish line (found her and waved!) and was a little distracted. Next race, all business.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Seems you almost have me pegged. Ran treadmill 5k's at 24:30 (7:53 pace) and and then 21:30 (6:55 pace) prior to the 5M today. In the AM, grabbed some greek yogurt and honey plus 8 oz water two hours before start. Jogged the 1M+ to the race start at 130 bpm about 1 hour prior, signed up, and waited for the fun in 10 degree weather. I was very conscious of trying to hold the 6:40 pace target throughout the run (my Garmin earned it's keep!) to prevent crashing and burning (very easy to chase the leaders when the pack begins to spread out early). I did the following per the Garmin.

1M: 6:46 (157); 2M: 6:42 (170); 3M: 6:51 (173); 4M: 6:33 (176); 5M: 6:25 (181); 0.05: 5:36 (185). 33:29 (6:41 pace) total.

Did better at consistency. Got a little excited toward the race finish and picked up the pace .3M out as suggested. Unfortunately that was 5:45 or so, which meant that I was huffing and chuffing for the last .1 instead of sprinting to the finish. My kids didn't seem to notice . The tank was definitely dry after this race. Finished 5th overall and 1st for age 30-39 out of 84 runners. I think I may specialize in these cold races where no one seems to show up!

The odd thing is my regular runs suggest I should be able to do better, I think. I've run my more hilly 4.15 route at 6:42 pace. Probably has to do with the lack of varied paces in my running.

Nice negative splits. I think you're right, you could go faster. I dont know the course you were on, but I believe you said it was pretty flat. My guess is that you're going out too slow.

Do you back off when your breathing gets harder? How did your legs feel at the end? Was there a downhill at the 1 mile mark or were you caught up in a crowd? If not then you definitely were taking it too easy. I'm starting to think you dont realize how fast you can really go. Maybe you need to do some of those 4x1000 or 4x1200 intervals at legit 5k pace (not 20 min, more like 19 min pace for you) with 3-4 min recovery. You may be surprised how much pain you can handle

 

[Frisbetarian]

Congrats, 5, nice run.

A few thoughts. I could never run a long (>10 mile) race with a pace group, especially one I was not used to/comfortable with. In a longer race you have to run at your own pace, so you made a very good decision there. If you use the bodyglide you won't need band aids, and band aids slide off when you sweat, or can suck to take off. Use bodyglide (or baby powder) on you feet, as well, to prevent blisters. Two hours is a nice goal for you right now - good luck.

 

[Marceline]

Getting winded is part of the process. Just keep building up the miles and you'll find yourself getting faster. How long are your normal runs now? I got back into running a few years ago and I remember walking 1/4 mile (or more) out of every mile just to get through 3 miles. I gradually cut down my walking time until I was able to handle 3 miles without walking. Then I added on a 1/4 mile to each run 3 days a week.

Take a look at this program as a way to build up your endurance for a 5k.
Novice 5k program

Thanks, that link was very helpful.

I usually run until I can't go any further, which has recently been anywhere from 2 - 2.75 miles, but I was able to get through a full 5k distance for the first time last week (in 33:20). I'm doing the Narragansett Super 5k this weekend and I'd like to try to finish under 32 minutes.

Fris, your advice on dealing with shin splints has been invaluable to me. Thanks.

 

[BleacherFan]

Excellent runs all around - I wish I could continue the trend of good news.

I came up lame the last few days - the upper quad and my hip area (abductor?) is sore and weak. I can't run without any slight pain - I think this has to do with the volume of training on the indoor track and going in the same direction with the tight turns - I've learned my lesson that's for sure. It's almost like a 'dead-leg' feeling - I'm hoping it's just some muscle tiredness and not anything worse

Over the next few days, I will drop the volume - the last three weeks for me were 70/84/86 and I will probably end up in the 70's but more importantly I must let the area rest. If anyone has any strategy with this injury (or any wraps - I can't see anything obvious to help deal with the pain) I would appreciate it.

The good news is that I can do these treadmill incline workouts without aggreviating the problem area - today I did 3 miles after a 4 mile warmup:

Mile #1 - incline 9.5 - speed 6.5
Mile #2 - incline 12 - speed 7
Mile #3 - incline 10.5 - speed 6.5

 

[rbeaud]

Nice negative splits. I think you're right, you could go faster. I dont know the course you were on, but I believe you said it was pretty flat. My guess is that you're going out too slow.

Do you back off when your breathing gets harder? How did your legs feel at the end? Was there a downhill at the 1 mile mark or were you caught up in a crowd? If not then you definitely were taking it too easy. I'm starting to think you dont realize how fast you can really go. Maybe you need to do some of those 4x1000 or 4x1200 intervals at legit 5k pace (not 20 min, more like 19 min pace for you) with 3-4 min recovery. You may be surprised how much pain you can handle :rolling:

I covered race mile 1 as mile 8 today, it is a gradual downhill (with only 84 runners there wasn't a crowd!) and hit 7:15 pace in parts (todays target for the 11.2M: 150 bpm avg which yielded an 8:07 pace). I should have pushed harder as that would have been a great place for 6:15 or so; what I need to learn is the appropriate HR for races vs. training. I also wonder how much of an uptick I should have made with 0.3 to go; drop :30 mile? Rechecking the Garmin it noted a "best" of 5:25, too beaucoup!

I definintely did not back off with harder breathing, I was using the Garmin to hold 6:40 steady as I could. In fact had my best pace on mile 4 considering it includes .3M at 10% grade (regular part of my runs). Maybe too much rigor in response to the 5K. Legs felt great. So, the intervals mean 1k @ 5k pace, recover (what is the target?), repeat X4? There is a fairly flat 4M section that I could give this a go later this week. When should I schedule this training run?

 

[SoxChick13]

Running the SuperSunday 10K (in Boston) on Sunday morning. So far, the forecast is looking pretty good. Anyone here running?

I realized this is my first organized race since my 2007 marathon; I've been running, but not as seriously, mostly due to a very (otherwise) busy 2008, so I'm trying to get back on the wagon. Also running Hyannis Half at the end of February, we'll see how that goes...not shooting for a PR by any means this time around, but I think it will be a good indicator of where I am.

Does anyone here have any good trail/waterproof running shoe recommendations? The pairs I've sampled in the past have been a bit stiff/heavy.

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

Hey,
What do you guys know about the age/grade metric?

here is what they say about it at the race I just ran...

Does it have any value in training/prep other than allowing you to compare yourself to others?

 

[BleacherFan]

Hey,
What do you guys know about the age/grade metric?

here is what they say about it at the race I just ran...

Does it have any value in training/prep other than allowing you to compare yourself to others?

It's a cute statistic - I wouldn't put much creedence in it. Some races have the prizes based off the age graded times to favor the old timers

I would just focus on how you finished in your age group - I've never heard of any training geared off it.

Dave

 

[rbeaud]

I've decided my next race will be 8 March in New Haven, CT. Given it seems I am not reaching my full potential, I would like to train for a sub 19. Of course, I haven't a clue how to do that so suggestions are appreciated. Runners World can generate training schedule although I don't think they are geared towards achieving a goal pace. I plugged in 19 min as recent 5k. The plan calls for speedwork/tempo runs, between 5 and 7 miles once a week. Otherwise it is mileage at 7:52 pace totaling from 31 to 41 mpw (would likely get higher if I had more than 6 weeks).

It's fun to have a point for all this running. And the kids are happy if dad can bring home shiny stuff.

 

[rbeaud]

Anyone have a brand of sunglasses they can recommend (for when the weather turns balmy again)? I've found the ones I've used so far tend to collect sweat and become useless after a few miles.

 

[BleacherFan]

I've decided my next race will be 8 March in New Haven, CT. Given it seems I am not reaching my full potential, I would like to train for a sub 19. Of course, I haven't a clue how to do that so suggestions are appreciated. Runners World can generate training schedule although I don't think they are geared towards achieving a goal pace. I plugged in 19 min as recent 5k. The plan calls for speedwork/tempo runs, between 5 and 7 miles once a week. Otherwise it is mileage at 7:52 pace totaling from 31 to 41 mpw (would likely get higher if I had more than 6 weeks).

It's fun to have a point for all this running. And the kids are happy if dad can bring home shiny stuff.

Don't focus too much on your training pace - as long as you get 35-40 miles in, you should be able to break 19 as long as you start smart and get great weather. Also, Underhand has some nice track workouts (400's/800's I believe) that are done at your 'goal' 5k pace - give those a whirl.

 

[BleacherFan]

Anyone have a brand of sunglasses they can recommend (for when the weather turns balmy again)? I've found the ones I've used so far tend to collect sweat and become useless after a few miles.

They are a little expensive but I use the Native sunglasses. The cool thing is they come with like 4 different lenses for the environment you're running in.

I think I have these

 

[underhandtofirst]

Anyone have a brand of sunglasses they can recommend (for when the weather turns balmy again)? I've found the ones I've used so far tend to collect sweat and become useless after a few miles.

Do all your training runs at 5am or 7pm and the sun isnt an issue ;-) I say this as a joke, but training runs done at these times are good for other reasons (like temp).

 

[underhandtofirst]

I've done my last run before my 5k on Sunday. I'm shooting for 20, but this is the most unprepared I've gone into a race in years so I can see myself blowing up if I go out too fast. The weather looks good (mid to high 30s and sunny) so I can probably tough it out with shorts which is easier than racing in running pants.

The miles just havent been there during my training. The difference is that I have done 1 to 2 workouts each week of the VO2 max or Tempo variety which is more geared towards a 5k. Who knows maybe the specific training will help.

 

[BleacherFan]

I've done my last run before my 5k on Sunday. I'm shooting for 20, but this is the most unprepared I've gone into a race in years so I can see myself blowing up if I go out too fast. The weather looks good (mid to high 30s and sunny) so I can probably tough it out with shorts which is easier than racing in running pants.

The miles just havent been there during my training. The difference is that I have done 1 to 2 workouts each week of the VO2 max or Tempo variety which is more geared towards a 5k. Who knows maybe the specific training will help.

Good luck - I think you'll be close. I really wish I could have run with ya - I'm taking the whole weekend off - I'm not messing with this injury

 

[BleacherFan]

Good luck - I think you'll be close. I really wish I could have run with ya - I'm taking the whole weekend off - I'm not messing with this injury

Nice race - just under 20!

Although Frank beat you again this year :c070:

Dave

 

[underhandtofirst]

Nice race - just under 20!

Although Frank beat you again this year :c070:

Dave

Frank had a tough time. He was 30-40 secs ahead of me and he stopped at about 2 miles and I passed him. He started back up and passed me with .5 to go. I didnt have a chance to catch him once he passed me. I'll write up a bit more about the race later.

Weather was nice, I'm happy with my performance considering my aerobic fitness was awful. Legs felt good actually. If I had my wind I could go under 19 this year. First mile at 6:06 didnt seem too tough.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Official Time: 19:57

some splits:
1.00: 6:07
1:54: 3:33 (6:34 pace)
2.00: 3:12 (6:57 pace)
2.75: 4:58 (6:37 pace)
2.93: 1:09 (6:23 pace)
3.11: 1:00 (5:33 pace)

I knew I was out too quick through 1mi so I relaxed the next .54. It is all downhill and last year I did this section 20 seconds faster. Didnt want to blow up. The next .46 to the 2 mile mark was into a bit of a breeze (10mph), nothing big, but I just paced off the people ahead of me and behind me (I could hear him). At the 2 mile mark the 2nd place woman passed me and I let her go out to about 20 yards, knowing if I could hold there I could catch her in a sprint the last .2 miles. She was tiny so I figured she's more built for efficiency and I'm more of a speed/power guy (5'10 176).

At 2.75 miles I started to press a bit more and realized I could hold this pace the rest of the race at least. This helped me close the gap on a couple people including the 2nd woman. We turned for home (.18 mi left) and my stomach was turning over at this point which I took as a good sign that I was using everything I had. I started my sprint with about 150 yds to go to pass 2 people and try and catch Frank (dave mention him above). I could hear the 2nd woman and another guy I had just passed falling off behind me. I caught a peek at the clock reading 19:48 with a short distance to go and at that point I knew I'd make it with a few seconds to spare.

Talked to a lot of the people after the race which is always fun. We all helped pull and push each other along. I enjoy trading high fives with people who I raced for the last 20 mins. One guy who I passed in the last .1 miles said he ran 16 mi yesterday. He had a heck of a race to do that!

I'm pretty happy with the race overall. This is the first race in the last 3 years in which I did not set a PR. But with that said I wasnt as prepared as I hoped, but I'm improving each week. Pacing wasnt great, but I liked the way I was able to push the last mile or so and finish strong. Now its time to build on this result.

 

[BleacherFan]

Official Time: 19:57

I'm pretty happy with the race overall. This is the first race in the last 3 years in which I did not set a PR. But with that said I wasnt as prepared as I hoped, but I'm improving each week. Pacing wasnt great, but I liked the way I was able to push the last mile or so and finish strong. Now its time to build on this result.

Nice recap - and one the more impressive angles was the ability to bring it down a notch after mile 1. I am a stupid runner and would have tried to push through it and would have blown up.. Nice to hear you thought that 6:06 uphill wasn't too bad - sign of good things to come.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Nice recap - and one the more impressive angles was the ability to bring it down a notch after mile 1. I am a stupid runner and would have tried to push through it and would have blown up.. Nice to hear you thought that 6:06 uphill wasn't too bad - sign of good things to come.

It wasnt steep uphill, most of the first mile is pancake flat, but there is a 30 or so foot rise leading up to the 1st mile.

I lucked out that the 2nd mile was a gradual downhill, so I relaxed but still felt like I was carrying some speed. Then the turn onto Pawtucket Blvd was into the wind which forced me to slow down a hair. At the 2 mile mark I had evened out and I had a good gauge of the runners around me and we were able to pull each other along. One guy behind me was breathing really heavy. I felt like I was doing better condition-wise than him so anytime I heard him get closer I picked it up a bit. He dropped off right around 2 miles when I got within 20-30m of a few people so I had that carrot in front of me to keep going.

I just read the final results. The woman I was so proud to outkick is 10 years older than me. Really nice run for her, I hope to be as competitive as her in 10 years! I was in the 2nd row at the starting line to start, right behind Kara Haas. She can fly! I used her to pace off of early on. I believe she runs low 18s so I figured if she pulled away slowly I would be ok. Actually, I pace off of women often in races. I've found that women running the same pace as me run really consistent even paced races. The men around me often go out too quick and die or run eratically. The women in 5ks that run sub 20 are really good runners and know how to pace correctly and finish strong. That's unlike clowns like me that start off at 6:07 pace and have to drop 30 seconds per mile just to hang on.

 

[BleacherFan]

It wasnt steep uphill, most of the first mile is pancake flat, but there is a 30 or so foot rise leading up to the 1st mile.

I lucked out that the 2nd mile was a gradual downhill, so I relaxed but still felt like I was carrying some speed. Then the turn onto Pawtucket Blvd was into the wind which forced me to slow down a hair. At the 2 mile mark I had evened out and I had a good gauge of the runners around me and we were able to pull each other along. One guy behind me was breathing really heavy. I felt like I was doing better condition-wise than him so anytime I heard him get closer I picked it up a bit. He dropped off right around 2 miles when I got within 20-30m of a few people so I had that carrot in front of me to keep going.

I just read the final results. The woman I was so proud to outkick is 10 years older than me. Really nice run for her, I hope to be as competitive as her in 10 years! I was in the 2nd row at the starting line to start, right behind Kara Haas. She can fly! I used her to pace off of early on. I believe she runs low 18s so I figured if she pulled away slowly I would be ok. Actually, I pace off of women often in races. I've found that women running the same pace as me run really consistent even paced races. The men around me often go out too quick and die or run eratically. The women in 5ks that run sub 20 are really good runners and know how to pace correctly and finish strong. That's unlike clowns like me that start off at 6:07 pace and have to drop 30 seconds per mile just to hang on.

Not a bad behind to follow either. I know when Casey ran his 2:22 at Chicago he used Deena as a rabbit the whole time. Obviously different skill levels but you're right - women are better at pacing and if you find one in your time range - you're golden.

Fellow clown
Dave

Edit: Also, Kara is a 2:55 marathoner - remember that - your best marathon times are ahead of ya

 

[rbeaud]

In preparation for my 5k on 8 Mar, I've accomplished the following.

31-32M last week. Goal of 34M this week. It will be tough since I will loose both Sunday and Friday to flying. So far 12.2k @ 7:53 yesterday and 8.7k (intervals). For intervals it was 1M @ 8:30 pace, 4X 800m @ 6:10 pace+400m @ 8:30 pace, 0.5k @ 5:40 pace, 1M @ 8:45 pace. I chose the 8:30 pace for the 400m based on previous runs where my HR is about 150 over flat ground. Checking with the treadmill, my last mile was about 161 HR. I'm not clear on the target goal for the 400m jogs, so with my last mile at 160 it is unlikely that my 8:30 pace was 150 BPM.

And I added 15.5k yesterday at 7:53 pace. Saturday will be a looong run.

Cheers from bloody ol' England.

Roland

edit - don't know the difference between 1k and 1m!

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

So, back to the eternal "What is the right training pace?" question for me.

Today is day 1 of an 11 week program for me to improve my 1/2 marathon time for a race on April 26 and now that I have made the commitment to train in order to improve my time I am going to use a more advanced workout plan then I have in the past.

I am kind of combining Hal's Advanced Schedule and a Runners World Training Plan or the McMilian Running Calculator to decide the paces for the various runs.

Is plugging in my desired time and then training to the prescribed plan's pace requirements too aggressive? My goal is to cut 25 minutes from my last race, from 10:54 per mile to 9:00 per mile for the half. I figure I wasted 3-5 minutes during the race dicking around, I did not focus that hard on running, nor did I push that hard. My effort level was medium/relaxed at best.

My goal for my next race's effort level is to puke after I cross the finish line. I also plan on being at least 15 pounds lighter for the upcoming race.

So my question is this:
Should I:
a) train like I have already run a sub 2 hour half and use the training paces suggested for a 2 hour half
or
b) should I go out and run my best mile or 2 mile or 3 mile and plug that number in to one of the running calculators to get the suggested training paces.

The only downside I can see to the most aggressive approach is the chance of injury.

What do you guys think?

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

Nothing?

:c070:

I have opted for an interim plug in number, halfway between my previous race and my goal, to determine my pace for various workouts. I will re-evaluate in 3 weeks, after I am back in the groove of running after the past 2 light weeks (recovery and sick).

 

[underhandtofirst]

Catching up....

Not a bad behind to follow either. I know when Casey ran his 2:22 at Chicago he used Deena as a rabbit the whole time. Obviously different skill levels but you're right - women are better at pacing and if you find one in your time range - you're golden.

Fellow clown
Dave

Edit: Also, Kara is a 2:55 marathoner - remember that - your best marathon times are ahead of ya

She probably weighs 60-70 lbs less than me which is a lot to overcome :rolling:

In preparation for my 5k on 8 Mar, I've accomplished the following.

31-32M last week. Goal of 34M this week. It will be tough since I will loose both Sunday and Friday to flying. So far 12.2k @ 7:53 yesterday and 8.7k (intervals). For intervals it was 1M @ 8:30 pace, 4X 800m @ 6:10 pace+400m @ 8:30 pace, 0.5k @ 5:40 pace, 1M @ 8:45 pace. I chose the 8:30 pace for the 400m based on previous runs where my HR is about 150 over flat ground. Checking with the treadmill, my last mile was about 161 HR. I'm not clear on the target goal for the 400m jogs, so with my last mile at 160 it is unlikely that my 8:30 pace was 150 BPM.

And I added 15.5k yesterday at 7:53 pace. Saturday will be a looong run.

Cheers from bloody ol' England.

Roland

edit - don't know the difference between 1k and 1m!

You might want to think about letting your HR drop down to 130-140 range between intervals to allow you to get in 1 or 2 more repeats. Your recovery time should be between 50% and 90% of the interval time. Too long and you waste time getting your HR back up, too short and you wipe yourself out early and dont get in enough repeats. I've found when doing intervals at 5k pace I end up doing a recovery job of half the length. I vary the pace from 10 to 11 min/mi to get the correct length recovery. Often the first 100m is slower (11-12min/mi) as I get my wind back, then I get back into a nice easy jog (9.5-10 min/mi)

So, back to the eternal "What is the right training pace?" question for me.

Today is day 1 of an 11 week program for me to improve my 1/2 marathon time for a race on April 26 and now that I have made the commitment to train in order to improve my time I am going to use a more advanced workout plan then I have in the past.

I am kind of combining Hal's Advanced Schedule and a Runners World Training Plan or the McMilian Running Calculator to decide the paces for the various runs.

Is plugging in my desired time and then training to the prescribed plan's pace requirements too aggressive? My goal is to cut 25 minutes from my last race, from 10:54 per mile to 9:00 per mile for the half. I figure I wasted 3-5 minutes during the race dicking around, I did not focus that hard on running, nor did I push that hard. My effort level was medium/relaxed at best.

My goal for my next race's effort level is to puke after I cross the finish line. I also plan on being at least 15 pounds lighter for the upcoming race.

So my question is this:
Should I:
a) train like I have already run a sub 2 hour half and use the training paces suggested for a 2 hour half
or
b) should I go out and run my best mile or 2 mile or 3 mile and plug that number in to one of the running calculators to get the suggested training paces.

The only downside I can see to the most aggressive approach is the chance of injury.

What do you guys think?

This is a tough one because you really can't know what your true current pace is. I used to run the workouts at my goal pace, but I've since learned that is a bit too fast often. Early in the training cycle you'll probably want to be a couple seconds per lap slower than your goal pace. The pacing for your runs is to improve various systems. For example, tempo runs are usually done at near half marathon pace. The reason is to increase your lactate threshold. Your LT is the point at which you start to accumulate lactate in your blood and you can't flush it out. Your legs start to feel heavy and stiff and you slow down. Running these workouts too fast doesnt stimulate your body to learn to flush out lactate at faster paces. These are tough to get used to but I've found the pace is at the point you feel like you are really pushing yourself, but not that you're going to die. Your breathing should be heavy, but you're in control of the pace. Intervals done at 5k pace are to increase your VO2 max which is how much oxygen you can process and use.

You might be well served by doing a time trial 3 miler (for 3.11 for a 5k). Do a 1-1.5 mile easy warmup. You can then get ready to run the time trial. Keep track of the splits just to see how even your "race" was. From this you'll be able to better gauge your training paces. Make sure you dont run hard a day or two before and after your time trial. This race will also give you another goal race to shoot for to improve in. You can't always train for a half marathon, but their are 5k races all the time, probably very close to home. In the time it takes you to run a half marathon you can probably drive to a 5k race(15 min), warm up(30-45), run the race(30), cool down(15) and drive home (15). And then the recovery from this race is short (day or two at most)

 

[AusTexSoxFan]

It's Marathon Week!

Winding down the final preparations for the Austin Marathon on Sunday. My goal is to go sub 4 hrs. Big key will be to stay patient in the first 10-12 miles. I really hurt myself last year when I started off too fast especially in the first 6 miles. I got into the starting chute later than I wanted and had to start with the 4:45s. This meant I was zigzagging all over the course in the first 6-7 miles to catch up to the 4:15-4:00 pace groups. By mile 16 I knew I was in trouble and by mile 18 I had to dial it down and practically limped across the finish line in 4:13.

This year, the mantra is patience. Let the race come to me and the rest will work itself out. Also need to make sure I get in the starting chute about 45 minutes prior to the start so I can get myself in the right spot.

My only bitch about the Austin marathon is that there is also a half-marathon which can really crowd things up. There are 5,000 Marathoners registered and 7,500 half-marathoners. Alot of these half-marathoners will start way up further in the chute than they should and thus, slow down traffic when trying to pass. Kinda wish they made this a Marathon-only event, but whatever....

As for final week training, I'm not going to do any running. I also row down at the Austin Rowing Club so I went out for a row this morning and will do so again on Thursday morning. After that, it's all clear until Sunday morning.

Weather looks good. Overcast and about 50 degrees at the start.

 

[rbeaud]

Catching up....

You might want to think about letting your HR drop down to 130-140 range between intervals to allow you to get in 1 or 2 more repeats. Your recovery time should be between 50% and 90% of the interval time. Too long and you waste time getting your HR back up, too short and you wipe yourself out early and dont get in enough repeats. I've found when doing intervals at 5k pace I end up doing a recovery job of half the length. I vary the pace from 10 to 11 min/mi to get the correct length recovery. Often the first 100m is slower (11-12min/mi) as I get my wind back, then I get back into a nice easy jog (9.5-10 min/mi)

And again I check the board too late! Yesterday was 7M, w/ 3X 1600 @ 6:10 pace. Using the 8:00 pace for recovery jog left me dead at 800m through the second repeat. Well not dead, just uncomfortable with sustaining the pace further without completely ruining the workout. A little better on the third where I reached 1000m w/ 8:30 or 8:45 (can't remember) recovery jog. Clearly too fast. It was probably also a big jump to go from 800m to 1600m in one week; a result of compressing the generic RW workout to 6 weeks.

 

[underhandtofirst]

And again I check the board too late! Yesterday was 7M, w/ 3X 1600 @ 6:10 pace. Using the 8:00 pace for recovery jog left me dead at 800m through the second repeat. Well not dead, just uncomfortable with sustaining the pace further without completely ruining the workout. A little better on the third where I reached 1000m w/ 8:30 or 8:45 (can't remember) recovery jog. Clearly too fast. It was probably also a big jump to go from 800m to 1600m in one week; a result of compressing the generic RW workout to 6 weeks.

The programs I've followed usually have 3x1600m intervals very close to race day (like a week or two out). That does sounds like a good pace for you for the repeats. Possibly a hair fast, but who am I kidding I go too fast also. My picture perfect interval workout usually has me completing the first half of the repeats nice and smooth. The 2nd half of te repeats usually require a bit more effort to finish at the correct pace and the last one is very tough. With that said I dont have to go to a 'race-like' effort. To me a race-like effort means totally spent and exhausted at the end. My goal is to be just below that at the end of the session. I'd like to think I might be able to do one more repeat, but most likely I'd come up short. I start my recovery job home at 9:30 pace and gradually increase to 8:30 which is pretty relaxed (marathon + 1 min).

 

[BleacherFan]

You might be well served by doing a time trial 3 miler (for 3.11 for a 5k). Do a 1-1.5 mile easy warmup. You can then get ready to run the time trial. Keep track of the splits just to see how even your "race" was. From this you'll be able to better gauge your training paces. Make sure you dont run hard a day or two before and after your time trial. This race will also give you another goal race to shoot for to improve in. You can't always train for a half marathon, but their are 5k races all the time, probably very close to home. In the time it takes you to run a half marathon you can probably drive to a 5k race(15 min), warm up(30-45), run the race(30), cool down(15) and drive home (15). And then the recovery from this race is short (day or two at most)

I second this - do a real hard 5k to see where you stand. Also, not to beat a dead horse but you may want to increase your mileage by 15-20% to get faster. What was your mileage for Carlsbad?

Dave

 

[Frisbetarian]

It's Marathon Week!

Good luck.

Official Time: 19:57

And a belated congrats.

I second this - do a real hard 5k to see where you stand. Also, not to beat a dead horse but you may want to increase your mileage by 15-20% to get faster. What was your mileage for Carlsbad?

I'll third it, and will emphasize that you should warm up for a mile to a mile and a half before the hard 5K.

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

What was your mileage for Carlsbad?

I was running about 20 miles per week in the last 5 or 6 weeks prior to that race.

Thanks to all. I will do my "personal 5K" on Tuesday and use that number to determine my pace. I have a long run tomorrow and a cross training day Monday so Tuesday is the day!

 

[BleacherFan]

I was running about 20 miles per week in the last 5 or 6 weeks prior to that race.

Thanks to all. I will do my "personal 5K" on Tuesday and use that number to determine my pace. I have a long run tomorrow and a cross training day Monday so Tuesday is the day!

I would like to see you get up to 30 or so per week. I think the extra strength will go a long way - check back with your 5k!

 

[5belongstoGeorge]

I would like to see you get up to 30 or so per week. I think the extra strength will go a long way - check back with your 5k!

Even though I was only running about 20 miles per week (4 days) I was cross training 5 days per week with strength training x3 days and mountain biking x2 days.

I have a triathlete friend who says that there are only 2 runs per week that are truly meaningful, the long run and the tempo run. Everything else is just putting in miles and if you can raise your heart rate and fitness level doing other stuff in addition to your 2 important run days it is okay branch out.

I am not arguing here at all, just throwing out an opinion I have heard from a pretty accomplished athlete and seeking comment.

 

[BleacherFan]

Even though I was only running about 20 miles per week (4 days) I was cross training 5 days per week with strength training x3 days and mountain biking x2 days.

I have a triathlete friend who says that there are only 2 runs per week that are truly meaningful, the long run and the tempo run. Everything else is just putting in miles and if you can raise your heart rate and fitness level doing other stuff in addition to your 2 important run days it is okay branch out.

I am not arguing here at all, just throwing out an opinion I have heard from a pretty accomplished athlete and seeking comment.

I definitely agree that there are a few key workouts in a weekly schedule that matter more: tempo work, speed work, hills, long run - but it's imperative to get the rest of those miles in. The heart rate stuff (anaerobic stuff) is part of it - but even the 'recovery' or slower aerobic miles are very important. I know some tri guys (Team Tri-Fury) and they definitely have a different mindset from my marathoner friends.

Long story short, from my experience as distance training, mileage definitely helps. Running aerobically will help building the slow-twitch muscles needed for stuff like half and full marathons. Don't get me wrong, you're doing a hell of a job and definitely in great shape - I just would like to see you take a cross training day and maybe make it a run...


Quick update on me - last time I checked in - I had some hip/quad irritation that I chalked up to the indoor track - too many laps in the same direction. I shut it down for a few days - doing some hill work and some spinning on the bike - after doing that and doing some RICE treatment on the leg it's gotten much better. And I haven't touched the indoor track or done any marathon pace work since - I figure I have all of March to focus on that stuff....

Weekly mileage so far : 70, 84, 86, 30 (shut it down), 89, 87 (83 average not including my down week). I MAY touch 90 this week but I'm still trying to get my quad 100% - it's about 90% now. I may race some shorter races in March like the Hynes 5 Miler and I am still on the fence about New Bedford - if I run it I will do it at MP....

M-F I generally run between 8-10 in the morning and 3-4 in the evening. Saturdays have been between 16-18 and Sundays an easy run of 8.5.... My life has been like Groundhog day during the week: Run,Work,family,dinner,run,eat,sleep and Repeat...

Dave

 

[AusTexSoxFan]

So the Austin Marathon was yesterday. Conditions were ideal at the start. Cool, overcast and very little wind. Probably 50 degrees. It stayed that way for the first 12 miles or so. I started off nice and slow and was very patient. Was probably around a 4:20 pace for the first 6 miles or so and then started moving. Ultimately passed the 4:15 pace group at mile 10 which is where the major hills are for the next 2 miles.

Hit the halfway mark at 2:07 so was feeling good that a sub 1:53 second half was doable. It was also right around the halfway point when the sun came out and the winds picked up. Ouch. But still, got to mile 20 at 3:08 and had visions of a sub 4 hour marathon dancing in my head... until mile 22 when there is a stretch of the course that has you doubleback and run north for 3 blocks into the wind (this is after you've spent about miles 3-17 running north straight into the wind. Course starts heading south around mile 18).

Mentally, it was crushing to have to go back into the wind and by mile 23, I was in trouble. I knew I wasn't going to be able to go sub 4 hrs so I just tried to shift into a steady state and finish strong. There are three hills in the last 1.5 miles which ordinarily aren't difficult, but at that point of the marathon, they are ballbusters. Luckily managed to grind through those and finished with my legs cramping pretty good.

Final chip time was 4:07. Not too bad for my second marathon. Six minutes faster than last year. I was really proud at how I approached it this year as opposed to last year (where I died around mile 19 or so). I was so much more patient and methodical, I just ran out of gas with about 3-4 miles to go as the heat increased and the wind had taken its toll. I know I can go sub 4 hrs at this marathon, I just need a little more experience. BTW, the winner came through in 2:30 which was a couple minutes slower than last year's winner.