SOSH Running Dogs

[sass a thon]

QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Aug 18 2009, 05:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2514914
Completed my first half marathon, the AFC Half in San Diego, over the weekend. My goal was to finish under 2 hours, and I just made it, with a time of 1:59:21.

Pretty brutal hill at mile 11 of this race, and as I saw everyone around me start walking I was really glad for all the hill training I've done while I cruised past them. I only had 1 training run of more than 11 miles before this race and those last two miles felt really long...felt great to finish though. Going to keep working on improving my speed and maybe do another one in the fall, see if I can shave a few minutes off that time.


Under 2 hours for your first half is awesome. Congrats!

I recommend throwing in a couple 14 or 15 mile runs before your next half. Makes all the distance in the world.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (sass a thon @ Aug 19 2009, 02:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2516886
Under 2 hours for your first half is awesome. Congrats!

I recommend throwing in a couple 14 or 15 mile runs before your next half. Makes all the distance in the world.


I second this. When I broke my HM best by 10 mins I added a 14 miler about a month before then did some 5k and 8k time trials to test my fitness and gain some confidence that my training was going well.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Aug 12 2009, 10:54 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2500108
You've put yourself in good shape for Baystate - hopefully you're mileage is creeping up and you'll be golden. People something don't put a lot of bearing on training on a course but I think it's a big advantage. I think how Rodgers used to train alot on the Boston course and look how that helped him.


Mileage per week is less than last year, I've only hit 50 once and maybe 1 or 2 more times. I havent missed a quality session and I just completed my 6th consecutive week of 45+, something I had never done before. I will say the last 10 days have been disappointing. I think some of it may be the heat. Today I had planned a 19 miler, but cut it to 13 because it was 77 with a dew point on 74. Last Sunday I ran 16 at MP+80 secs and I was dead, Wednesday I went 11 and just couldnt hold my tempo pace for longer than 25 mins, I had no power left. I had to do the last 15 mins in 5 min intervals.

QUOTE (Hooper'sslide @ Aug 13 2009, 01:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2502943
I like Underhandtofirst's suggestion of tempo runs at mp, they sound like a really good idea. I think I'll make that my speed session next week.

I notice that some of you have mentioned Bay State, are many of you running it? I am signed up for the marathon. I was originally hoping for a 3:15 (a very significant PR but I have been training much more rigorously) but I am now thinking I should scale back my goals to a more reasonable 3:20-3:25.


How did the MP run go? How about other tempo runs? Based on your training you've posted I think 3:20 is doable. Those long MP runs can give you a good idea what you can handle for the entire race after you taper.

QUOTE (WinRemmerswaal @ Aug 17 2009, 11:16 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2512619
Underhand, that is really helpful stuff, you have clearly done a lot of reading and thinking about this. I would appreciate thoughts from you or anyone else on setting up a training program for a half marathon. I posted a couple of months ago, had been a very intermittent runner from my late 20's-late 30's, ran a 23 minute 5K back in the fall, used a program from runner's world over the winter to build up mileage leading to a 10K in June. Felt terrible on race day and ran 46:24 but actually was not unhappy about that, even on a bad physical day was able to slog out 7:30s which to me was a sign that my base of fitness had improved from last year. Started up after that on another runner's world program, running 25-30 miles per week now, occasional intervals and tempo runs, long runs of 10-11 on weekends. Still learning how to pace myself properly on the different runs, but am enjoying it and and having some pretty good sessions. Did 11 miles this Saturday in 94 minutes and was tired but not dead. Saw an announcement last week for a half marathon in my town that literally goes right down my street (my front door is mile 7.5) and figured I should go for it. Date is 11/15, so about 3 months from now.

I am looking to make myself a training schedule for the next 12 weeks leading up to this half marathon. I definitely do better if I make myself a schedule up front - even with these pretty basic free training routines from runner's world I've found that I do about 90% of the workouts if I have a list sitting there on my desk. I'm also trying not to overthink it, in reviewing your last post it's clear that there are many different approaches out there and it seems like one could read 5 different books and just end up confused. Looks like you have done enough homework to design your own training regimens, for myself, I'd be happy to take a canned schedule and see how things go.

So, Underhand or others, is there any source you would especially recommend for training routines? Runner's world looks like they have changed their site since the last time I did a training program there, not sure if that means theirs are any good or not. Are there other sites that are better, or books that would be a better source?

Thanks in advance, seeing the mileage and times that the regulars in this thread put up is both inspiring and a bit initimidating...


I used Hal Higdon's program (halhigdon.com) for a HM before and used Pete Pfizinger's from his road racing book. I liked PP's better. It has programs for different mileage levels 25, 40 and 60+ per week. Each week has a mileage goal, the two long runs, other quality runs and even speed (usually strides for this distance). The more I use Jack daniels' system the more I like it though. He does a lot of tempo runs which helps builds mental toughness in me. He doesnt really have any HM plans in his book, but he talks about adapting either a 10k plan for faster runners or scaling back a marathon plan for slower runners. His book does the best job helping you determine the exact paces you should run each workout at. To me it helps eliminate some of the guess work.

The books I've read all use the same basics, although recently I've been reading there is some change in how to build for a marathon. It used to be long distance, stamina, then speed but recently I;ve read some do long distance then speed and finally stamina. The thinking is if you need that speed from intervals to help fully develop your ability to run even faster tempo runs to improve your stamina. The one series of books I;ve stayed away from are Galloway's. He just seems to have you do runs at too slow of a pace for my taste. He recommended long runs at MP + 90-120 seconds. I'd be bored to tears at that pace, it would just suck all the enjoyment of it for me. I can deal with a slow recovery run from time to time, but the thought of doing 15+ miles at 2 mins over MP makes me want to quit. It would just feel like walking.

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Aug 17 2009, 11:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2513657
Had an awesome day at Fenway today, but bad news for my training: running all-out on the basepaths and in the field put some major strain on my right groin muscle and I strained it pretty hard. Don't think it's serious, but it hurts and there's no way I can run (or bike) for several days. Looks like I'll be swimming for the rest of the week in prep for my race on the 30th.

Do any of you have any advice on a groin strain? It's not debilitating, but it hurts and I really want to be able to race on the 30th. Should I rest it totally, and if so for how long? I guess how it feels tomorrow will be a major factor, but any advice on treating leg muscle strains/pulls in the lead-up to a race would be appreciated.


I've found strains take 3-14 days to recover from. You might be able to get some very light running in after a couple days. Just make sure you stop as soon as you feel any discomfort, walk home if you have to. You at least will be able to keep most of your fitness by swimming.

 

[sass a thon]

QUOTE (sass a thon @ Aug 19 2009, 01:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2516886
Under 2 hours for your first half is awesome. Congrats!

I recommend throwing in a couple 14 or 15 mile runs before your next half. Makes all the distance in the world.


Just reread this. Distance should be "difference."

Funny typo, though.

 

[rbeaud]

It's great to see the traffic pick up a bit amongst us runners. I had a good week leading to my vacation which served as a taper. One tempo run of 5.5M @ 6:48 on a hilly course plus a 15.5M long run @ 7:59, total 42M. If you've ever taken the Merritt in CT and crossed the (new) Sikorsky Bridge, miles 12-13 were my long run...the grade is a lot tougher on foot than my car! Last week, only 5.5M leading up to the 5k on Saturday. Probably best, it was hot and humid on race morning even though it was by the shore. I was happy to run 18:51 which is 8 sec better than the July 4th race. Hopefully the weather is more pleasant in two weeks and an 18:30 will be in reach.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Longest run of the season for me this morning. I had postponed this workout from Saturday to yesterday to today because I didnt want to run it in super warm conditions. Decent effort, 19.12 miles @ 7:59 avg.
2 mi w/u 8:29 pace
2x10 min tempo intervals with 2 min rest (9-9:30 pace)
6:40, 6:43
80 min easy @ 8:15 pace
15 min tempo run the 5 min splits were 6:46, 7:03, 7:35 per mile pace. Last two were net uphill and the last was uphill and I was out of gas.
2 mi c/d @ 8:30 pace
Nice work today, I would have liked to finish the 15 min tempo stronger, but I couldnt hold the pace up the hills.
Workout graph
The gps had a weird hiccup around 9.5 miles which had my pace slow to > 12 min/mi even though I was really consistent at 8:15 pace. Nice to see HR drop slowly as I plugged along at 8:15 pace. During the c/d I felt comfortable at 8:15 pace again. I felt like I could have kept that up for another hour which would have meant a 3:31 marathon without a taper.

I have another tempo run (11mi) on Thurs, a couple shorter runs then a 15 mi MP run on Sunday around the Baystate course from miles 14 to 26 and continuing from mile 1 through 4. Goal pace will be 7:15/mi.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

Had a good taper ride today - 20 miles, not too hard, not too slow. My legs seem to have pretty much recovered from my Fenway Day groin accident. So tomorrow it's a hard arm swim to save the legs and let them recover 100%, some easy running and stretching Friday and maybe Saturday, then the Cranberry Country Olympic Triathlon on Sunday morning. Very pumped for the race. I have only vague expectations of how well I will do, but know I am in the best shape I have been in since high school, and that was a long time ago, so I am very excited. Wish me luck.

 

[BleacherFan]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Aug 25 2009, 10:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2529064
Longest run of the season for me this morning. I had postponed this workout from Saturday to yesterday to today because I didnt want to run it in super warm conditions. Decent effort, 19.12 miles @ 7:59 avg.
2 mi w/u 8:29 pace
2x10 min tempo intervals with 2 min rest (9-9:30 pace)
6:40, 6:43
80 min easy @ 8:15 pace
15 min tempo run the 5 min splits were 6:46, 7:03, 7:35 per mile pace. Last two were net uphill and the last was uphill and I was out of gas.
2 mi c/d @ 8:30 pace
Nice work today, I would have liked to finish the 15 min tempo stronger, but I couldnt hold the pace up the hills.
Workout graph
The gps had a weird hiccup around 9.5 miles which had my pace slow to > 12 min/mi even though I was really consistent at 8:15 pace. Nice to see HR drop slowly as I plugged along at 8:15 pace. During the c/d I felt comfortable at 8:15 pace again. I felt like I could have kept that up for another hour which would have meant a 3:31 marathon without a taper.

I have another tempo run (11mi) on Thurs, a couple shorter runs then a 15 mi MP run on Sunday around the Baystate course from miles 14 to 26 and continuing from mile 1 through 4. Goal pace will be 7:15/mi.


Nice job - what are you considered for tune up races? Half or any 5ks? Would you consider 6:40-ish your half marathon pace?

Also nice to see the humidity subside a little - it's been tough training weather!! My last 9 weeks of mileage have been 65,60,66,58,65,60,68,60,58 with this week shaping up to be around the mid 60's as well. My last 3 workouts in some tough conditions were:

12x400 with 60 seconds rest (71 sec avg)
4x1600 with 400 meter recovery (5:12)
400,800,1k,1.2k,1k,800,400 = 4:55 pace

Legs are a little tired but I think I'm shaping up well for Ollie and Lone Gull 8 days later.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Aug 26 2009, 03:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2532043
Had a good taper ride today - 20 miles, not too hard, not too slow. My legs seem to have pretty much recovered from my Fenway Day groin accident. So tomorrow it's a hard arm swim to save the legs and let them recover 100%, some easy running and stretching Friday and maybe Saturday, then the Cranberry Country Olympic Triathlon on Sunday morning. Very pumped for the race. I have only vague expectations of how well I will do, but know I am in the best shape I have been in since high school, and that was a long time ago, so I am very excited. Wish me luck.


Nice to hear you're on the way back to good health. Random question, what would consider a good conversion of bike miles to running miles. I've heard anything from 3:1 to 4:1. Do you think in those terms when considering distances? How about pace for bike and running?

QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Aug 26 2009, 04:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2532119
Nice job - what are you considered for tune up races? Half or any 5ks? Would you consider 6:40-ish your half marathon pace?

Also nice to see the humidity subside a little - it's been tough training weather!! My last 9 weeks of mileage have been 65,60,66,58,65,60,68,60,58 with this week shaping up to be around the mid 60's as well. My last 3 workouts in some tough conditions were:

12x400 with 60 seconds rest (71 sec avg)
4x1600 with 400 meter recovery (5:12)
400,800,1k,1.2k,1k,800,400 = 4:55 pace

Legs are a little tired but I think I'm shaping up well for Ollie and Lone Gull 8 days later.


No tuneup races, dont have the time with kids in various activities. I have two more MP runs (2 w/u+15 MP+2 c/d). If I can handle 7:15 pace for those I'll be really excited.

I'd consider maybe 7:00 my HM pace.

It has been tough with the humidity recently. September is usually a nice month to run because it is a lot cooler in the am when I run so I feel great.

That's a lot of speed work you have going. That has to be taking its toll on your legs.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Aug 26 2009, 04:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2532141
... Random question, what would consider a good conversion of bike miles to running miles. I've heard anything from 3:1 to 4:1. Do you think in those terms when considering distances? How about pace for bike and running?

I have also heard these ratios quoted, but don't know how accurate they are. Of course, it all depends on your work rate. If you run slow and bike hard, that's one ratio. If you run fast and bike slow ... etc.

My experience is that as your fitness in the different disciplines develops, the ratios change. For example, when I started biking and already had a lot of miles running, it felt like I needed only 15-20 miles on the bike to match a 5-7 mile run. Now that I have switched my focus more to the bike (to avoid some of the pounding on my arthritic hips and knees), I find that I am much faster on the bike and so now seem to need 25-30 miles on the bike to match a hard 6 miles on the road. And since your work rate in part depends on the course you are on, a hilly run or hilly bike will mess all this up.

At the end of the workout day, I go by how wiped I feel. You know that feeling you get when you have worked out really, really hard - I work to that, and if I am not there at the end of a ride, I go and hit a few hills to get there. If I'm not there after a run, I'll do some speed work. I rely on what the bod says to me after every workout rather than thinking about a ratio (not that this is what you do either).

And just as an aside, as for swimming, I don't think any ratios work. Since you can't really swim up or downhill, it depends on how hard you can make yourself go. You can use all of your muscles (almost literally - you use, when swimming the front crawl properly, almost every major muscle group in your body) or only some, so it depends on how you swim. I'm going for an arm swim tomorrow, for example, so I expect to have a much lower work rate than if I went full-out with the legs as well.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Aug 26 2009, 10:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2532995
At the end of the workout day, I go by how wiped I feel. You know that feeling you get when you have worked out really, really hard - I work to that, and if I am not there at the end of a ride, I go and hit a few hills to get there. If I'm not there after a run, I'll do some speed work. I rely on what the bod says to me after every workout rather than thinking about a ratio (not that this is what you do either).


You dont do any recovery runs/rides? Well, maybe when you're doing different activities it works out that way (bike hard every third day, swim hard every third day, run hard every third day, rest the 7th day). I find I can do 2 hard days in a row then I start to risk injury because my muscles havent recovered and they are tighter than normal. Not to mention I see diminishing returns because I cant run at the correct intensity.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Aug 26 2009, 11:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2533146
You dont do any recovery runs/rides? Well, maybe when you're doing different activities it works out that way (bike hard every third day, swim hard every third day, run hard every third day, rest the 7th day). I find I can do 2 hard days in a row then I start to risk injury because my muscles havent recovered and they are tighter than normal. Not to mention I see diminishing returns because I cant run at the correct intensity.

I find that cross-training acts as a good recovery day, in addition to resting totally at least one day a week. But in general, yes, I vary training to aid recovery. I was speaking generally about more intense days.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

The weather cooperated and today I did the Cranberry Country Olympic Distance Triathlon. What a great experience. Perfect racing weather - cool but not too cool, cloudy but dry. I had trained really hard but did not have a clear sense of how it would go. But I am really pleased with the results.

The swim was good but not great. I had a hard time getting my motor going and the field was really crowded in the tiny pond in which we swam. I fell back a bit, but once I got going and got my bearings, I caught back up. I think swimming is the hardest part because you use every single muscle in your body, you spend half the time not breathing, it's nearly impossible to swim straight so you have to look up every few strokes to ensure you are on course, and if you bonk, it's not like you can just pull over and rest. But I managed the swim (1,500 meters) in 26 minutes. Came out of the water a bit winded but ready for the bike.

Had a good transition to the bike and was on the course pretty quickly. The course (26 miles/40 k) was rolling, with some decent climbs and descents, but nothing really difficult. I passed more than I got passed, but my left hammy got a little tweaky in the middle and my legs felt kind of heavy. I went for it as much as I could and ended up in the transition area at 1:45, so it was a good, fast ride. There's no drafting in triathlon, so you really have to work hard and my legs were not happy in the transition zone. The leading elite women racers, who started their swim probably 15 minutes after my wave, caught me at mile 22, just bombing away. Impressive athletes.

Another reasonable transition and it was off on the 6.2 mile (10 k) run. I decided to push as hard as my tweaky legs would go, and aerobically I felt great. Heart rate was probably 145-150 most of the time and I was passing a fair number of people. Sucking down those vile sports gels seemed to help, but after a few of those things I felt like puking, and you have to drink a lot of water to process them properly. But I kept going hard when at about mile 4 my right groin, which I hurt a couple weeks ago, started to flare up. It was mildly painful but it never gave way, so I pushed as hard as I could without hurting it, and it didn't seem to hurt my speed. Finished the race in 2:37.20, which really kind of surprised me. I had been shooting for maybe breaking three hours, so coming in well under that, and in the middle of my age group, was really satisfying.

All in all it was a fantastic experience. It was a huge race (~1,500 racers) and the atmosphere was really exciting. Lots of support, good organization, very competitive racing. I laid down a really good time to use as a baseline for my training, and my body responded really well to my training and pushing it in the race. In the off-season I need to focus on leg health and strength, as I seem to have reached a plateau on my speed despite continued improvements in aerobic fitness.

This event is really addictive, and for those of you who love to run but want to diversify your training - I think many of you would love experimenting with triathlon.

 

[Traut]

Has anyone here run the Miami marathon?

My training for the Hartford half marathon is going well. If I were to sign up for a marathon, this winter would be the time to do it. Also considering Disney. Having trouble getting over my disdain for all things mouse.

Any thoughts on either Miami or Disney would be appreciated.

 

[rbeaud]

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Aug 30 2009, 03:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2539521
Finished the race in 2:37.20, which really kind of surprised me. I had been shooting for maybe breaking three hours, so coming in well under that, and in the middle of my age group, was really satisfying.


Nice! I'm just not game for swimming beyond playing with the kids, so I tip my hat to you for taking on the tri. My worst experience so far has been to have one lace become untied at mile 1 of the last race, so more kudos for grinding through your cranky body parts. Have a drink...and prepare for the next one!

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Aug 30 2009, 09:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2539957
Has anyone here run the Miami marathon?

My training for the Hartford half marathon is going well. If I were to sign up for a marathon, this winter would be the time to do it. Also considering Disney. Having trouble getting over my disdain for all things mouse.

Any thoughts on either Miami or Disney would be appreciated.


Nothing here though I would like to hear about the Harford Half (wife just mentioned that one today as a possibility) and Disney if you decide to run it as well. As an aside, I have to say for a family the Mouse was a phenomenal choice. It's been a year and they still talk about it nearly weekly. And cannot wait to go back again in a few years. The only downside is the kids keep you so busy that it's a half vacation for mom/dad. Scheduling a race might be a way to give back to ourselves for being so wonderful.

Any chance you may be at the New Haven Road Race? Just got my confirmation for the 5k. Here's hoping for some cool weather to go with the flat course.

 

[Traut]

QUOTE (rbeaud @ Aug 30 2009, 10:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2540042
Nothing here though I would like to hear about the Harford Half (wife just mentioned that one today as a possibility) and Disney if you decide to run it as well. As an aside, I have to say for a family the Mouse was a phenomenal choice. It's been a year and they still talk about it nearly weekly. And cannot wait to go back again in a few years. The only downside is the kids keep you so busy that it's a half vacation for mom/dad. Scheduling a race might be a way to give back to ourselves for being so wonderful.

Any chance you may be at the New Haven Road Race? Just got my confirmation for the 5k. Here's hoping for some cool weather to go with the flat course.


My wife has run the Hartford Half before. It's well organized. The course has 2 hills and is otherwise pretty flat. I know many people who have run it and all say it's a lot of fun. The Hartford Marathon Foundation does a very good job with races in general.

I've kicked around doing the New Haven road race. I'm scheduled to run 10.5 next weekend anyway. If the weather is good, I may sign up later in the week. I have problems treating races as training runs. My goal is the Hartford Half. I'm not inclined to break away from my training schedule or routine.

I'm going to sign up for the Manchester Road Race.

Other than that, I'm toying with the idea of doing the Philly half in November.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I had my second MP workout of the season this morning. Out on the roads in the dark at 4:45.

1.93mi w/u @8:20 (downhill so it was very easy)
15.6 miles @7:22 (broke my 25k PR by 2:30 although that was on a hilly course)
2.38 mi c/d @9:25 (uphill, but legs were pretty sore so it was very slow)

I actually added an extra .6 mile to get over 200 miles for August, my first time at that level. Early on in the run I realized my goal pace of 7:15 was going to be out of the question and even my pace for my last MP workout of 7:18 was going to be tough. Legs were pretty sore the last 4 or so miles, but having the garmin where I have the avg pace for the current lap is a huge benefit to help keep on track. I ran this over miles 14-26 and continued to 1-4 of the Baystate marathon course. It is very flat which is great for maintaining consistent mile splits.

The 7:22 pace equates to a 3:13 marathon which is good enough to qualify me for Boston. I'd really like to run near 7:15 pace if possible, but we'll see on race day. I went through the half marathon in 1:36:32, about 1:30 off my PR. Broke my PR for 25k (15.56mi) by 2:30, but that race was on a super hilly course (Gloucester last year).

Splits
Mile Pace Avg HR Mile Pace Avg HR 1 7:21 142 9 7:21 151 2 7:23 145 10 7:23 151 3 7:22 148 11 7:19 154 4 7:23 148 12 7:24 154 5 7:20 149 13 7:26 156 6 7:19 150 14 7:25 157 7 7:21 151 15 7:24 158 8 7:20 151 15.6 7:19 159
Workout graph

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Aug 30 2009, 03:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2539521
The weather cooperated and today I did the Cranberry Country Olympic Distance Triathlon. What a great experience. Perfect racing weather - cool but not too cool, cloudy but dry. I had trained really hard but did not have a clear sense of how it would go. But I am really pleased with the results.
....
This event is really addictive, and for those of you who love to run but want to diversify your training - I think many of you would love experimenting with triathlon.


Congrats on the nice effort. I did a short tri back in HS (600m swim in a pool, 12mi bike, 3.5mi run) and it was a pretty neat experience. The biggest issue I found was putting in the right effort for each part. Well that and totally changing which muscles you're using at the transition.

I'd be terrified swimming in a pond with all those people. It is one thing swimming in lanes, but entirely different getting kicked and trying to breathe in choppy water. How do you train for that?

As far as doing a tri, it would be a great way to change things up. I'm always jealous of the people on the bikes flying by me. And I find that swimming the day before a run really helps loosen muscles, even if it's just in the pool with my kids doing cannonballs.

Any more tris planned or maybe some 5k or 10k races to improve that part of your race?

 

[BleacherFan]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Aug 31 2009, 10:31 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2540418
I had my second MP workout of the season this morning. Out on the roads in the dark at 4:45.


4:45 - damn - if that's not dedication I'm not sure what is. Was it out of the 40's when you started? . Nice workout BTW - and congrats on the 200 mile plateau.

Dave

 

[Traut]

Any interest in doing a 2010 SoSH Running Bash? SoSH takes a marathon? We could do a SoSH marathon challenge thread in TBLTS (kinda like the fatass thread) and encourage each other to keep going. I'm thinking Vermont City.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Aug 31 2009, 08:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2541169
4:45 - damn - if that's not dedication I'm not sure what is. Was it out of the 40's when you started? . Nice workout BTW - and congrats on the 200 mile plateau.

Dave


It was a nice comfy 60 when I started. I schedule my runs so I get back home between 7 and 7:15 so I'm often out at crazy times. I like COCK!e of the reasons 50 mpw is about my max. Getting up at 4:30 or 5am every day to run wears me out. yes I'm aware many people get up at that time to go to work, they are just more disciplined than me about getting to bed at a decent hour

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Sep 1 2009, 09:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2541701
Any interest in doing a 2010 SoSH Running Bash? SoSH takes a marathon? We could do a SoSH marathon challenge thread in TBLTS (kinda like the fatass thread) and encourage each other to keep going. I'm thinking Vermont City.


It is an interesting idea, but might be tough in practice because of all the training involved. Everyone's marathon schedule differs based on being ready for key races. Personally, one per year is enough for me. Maybe if there were a 5k in the area before the actual SoSH Bash we could run that. I'm not sure how many in this thread even went to the bash, it did sound like a good time.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Sep 1 2009, 09:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2541701
Any interest in doing a 2010 SoSH Running Bash? SoSH takes a marathon? We could do a SoSH marathon challenge thread in TBLTS (kinda like the fatass thread) and encourage each other to keep going. I'm thinking Vermont City.

I'd be interested in principle, but not in marathon distance. I second underhand's sentiment - we all have different training and race schedules, so maybe if we put something together more modest or all join into a smaller run, maybe raising some dosh for charity.

 

[rbeaud]

I've had what I hope is a good buildup to next Monday's 5k. This week's goal is to avoid pigging out on food. I find myself really hungry yet realize the miles (activity) is not there during a taper week.

Wed - 6.5M w/ 3M tempo; Thur - 10.5M @ 8:00; Fri - 3.3 @ 8:00; Sat - 13.65 @ 7:32; Sun - 3.6 @ 9:32 (w/ kids); Mon - 4.8 @ 6:42; Tue - off. I plan to get another 6.5-8 tonight w/ the local running club, take Thursday off, 6 easy on Fri, Sat/Sun off. My long run was much faster than I had planned; the HR monitor was acting wonky. Since I pace off HR, it was too fast and I was tired. I'm sure having no water/gels compounded the problem.

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Sep 1 2009, 09:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2543170
I'd be interested in principle, but not in marathon distance. I second underhand's sentiment - we all have different training and race schedules, so maybe if we put something together more modest or all join into a smaller run, maybe raising some dosh for charity.


Same thoughts here; I'm in with enough notice.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Aug 31 2009, 12:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2540557
Congrats on the nice effort. I did a short tri back in HS (600m swim in a pool, 12mi bike, 3.5mi run) and it was a pretty neat experience. The biggest issue I found was putting in the right effort for each part. Well that and totally changing which muscles you're using at the transition.

I'd be terrified swimming in a pond with all those people. I like COCK!e thing swimming in lanes, but entirely different getting kicked and trying to breathe in choppy water. How do you train for that?

As far as doing a tri, it would be a great way to change things up. I'm always jealous of the people on the bikes flying by me. And I find that swimming the day before a run really helps loosen muscles, even if it's just in the pool with my kids doing cannonballs.

Any more tris planned or maybe some 5k or 10k races to improve that part of your race?

I am finding all sorts of new challenges come with triathlon. The swimming part is the toughest for a lot of reasons. And yes, the flying hands, elbows and feet can mess you up if you catch one to the face (which I did in this last race). You can't really train for it other than doing open water swims and mentally preparing yourself not to panic when you get hit. There's nothing malicious about it, so you just hold your breath and keep going. You are usually in a wetsuit, which provides a lot of buoyancy, so in an emergency you can stop swimming and you will float with no effort. And I find it really energizing to swim in the pack, because you're really racing and you can feel the energy of the pack. It's loads of fun.

Another hard thing is deciding how much to leave in your legs for the next discipline. If you go all-out on the swim and kick too hard, you may not have enough in the legs for the run. Same with the bike. I think it's just a learning process and listening to what your body is telling you throughout the race. The more I race the more in tune I will get with that.

I'm doing one more race this season on September 20th in Dartmouth, the Buzzard's Bay Sprint Tri. Shorter distance, so everyone basically hauls ass the whole way. Should be a lot of fun. I'm working on my speed really hard right now so I can try to be competitive. My 13-year old daughter is also doing the race, so that should be fun. Then I'll probably do some road racing in the tri off-season to work on my running speed.

If you're interested, there are a ton of resources available about getting started in triathlon. Go to http://www.usatriathlon.org/ and browse around. Maybe you'll get hooked like I did.

 

[BleacherFan]

Well, the last week before my taper is done before Ollie. Taped the mileage a little bit this week - also got a deep tissue massage in my quads/hip area that really helped. Also with kids back this week and my daughter getting sick - it was a tough week all around:

M: Easy (7:20 pace)
T: Track (5 x 1k with short rest): 3:11,3:08,3:07,3:06,3:06 (Total 9.5)
W: AM: 5 (7:02 pace) , PM: 3 (7:08 pace)
R: 7M Progression - last at 5:53 (47:20)
F: 8M Easy Progression - last 2 @ 6:00 pace - 54:02
S: 15.5 (6:44 pace) - did some quick miles in the middle: 5:50,5:49,6:00(big hill)

I need to remember to drink more before my long runs - I was completely dehyrdated after today's run

Next week: Monday 6 easy, Tuesday track 8, Wed: Off, Thurs: 6, Friday 4

I've had a good,hard training block, time to relax a little

 

[rbeaud]

New Haven Road Race today...and I was soooo close!

Back in June I stated that my goal was a sub 18 5k at the NHRR. It's a flat course that promotes itself as a record setter. Today was a nice cool morning for me and 3000 some odd racers in the 5k. At 5 min to race start I was trying to sneak in a pit stop...gave up on that and went to the start line. I fail to understand why so many children and weekend runners feel the need to clog the start area; maybe I'm just getting into my grumpies as a near 40 YO. Worked my way to within 3m of the start line. I felt like this could be a good race as my HR was 70 standing still and that energized feeling was there. The start went off and I worked my way through the crowd, though I tried to me mindful of my pace. All the same it was a fast start and I worried about what would happen down at the wire. The Garmin was crucial to my run today as I checked it quite frequently. I think my splits show the race was fairly well managed for once. I did my best to run at my pace as there were no pace setters that I could trust. Around 3k I had a pretty good cramp. All I could do was mentally remind myself that it was a short race and try to hold the pace. Over the course of the race, I continued to slowly work through traffic. One small hick-up at 4.4k as there was a timer that must have been for the 20k runners. I mistook it for 3M and picked up the pace. Luckily I realized the error soon enough to save something for the end. As I approached the finish there was a good knot of runners, so I took the outside lane and closed as best I could; I think I passed about 20 runners. My speed to finish completely surprised me and I probably should have gone for it sooner. Something for next time. I must have mistaken which pad was the finish considering the mileage discrpepancy.

1k - 3:29; 2k - 3:42; 3k - 3:41; 4k - 3:42; 5k - 3:25....17:59 by my Garmin (which was 9m short of 5k) though 18:09 per the official timers, 7th in AG and 54 OA. Could not be happier...unless I actually finished sub 18

Very happy thinking that more training could have me actually breaking 17....maybe. Something to think about for next year.

I hope everyone has a great weekend. I'll be taking in the cool climate of Bristol, England this week. I hope there is time for running.

Cheers,

Roland

 

[Traut]

I've been getting pains in my lower legs. Above the ankle and below the knee (closer to the ankle than the knee). I did ten miles on Saturday and my lower legs hurt real bad for the first two miles. After that, they were fine. Today I went for a 3 mile run and my lower legs hurt the entire way. I've noticed on long runs that I feel much better at the end of the run than when I start.

Any thoughts on this? My original program called for me to do 4 miles next Saturday. I've done 4,5,6,7,4,8,9,10 as my long runs. I was hoping to do 11,4,12, 13, 4 then half. My gut is to stick with my original plan and spend some more time on the bike and at the gym. I've also been running a lot of hills. At this point, I know I can make the half which is October 10th. I just want to do it healthy.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Sep 7 2009, 07:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2554145
I've been getting pains in my lower legs. Above the ankle and below the knee (closer to the ankle than the knee). I did ten miles on Saturday and my lower legs hurt real bad for the first two miles. After that, they were fine. Today I went for a 3 mile run and my lower legs hurt the entire way. I've noticed on long runs that I feel much better at the end of the run than when I start.

Any thoughts on this? My original program called for me to do 4 miles next Saturday. I've done 4,5,6,7,4,8,9,10 as my long runs. I was hoping to do 11,4,12, 13, 4 then half. My gut is to stick with my original plan and spend some more time on the bike and at the gym. I've also been running a lot of hills. At this point, I know I can make the half which is October 10th. I just want to do it healthy.


Sounds like shin splints, which is a generic term for pain in the lower leg that can be caused by small tears in the sheath covering the bones (not so serious) up to pulled or torn muscles (more serious) or injured ligaments or tendons (also not good). The only real cure for it is rest.

Running hills may be part of the problem, as this puts additional strain on the tendons, ligaments and muscles on the way up as they work harder to lift the same amount of weight up an incline, and works the bones harder on the way down as they fall further to the ground. So one way to avoid this condition might be for you to stop running hills for a while. I used to have a problem with shin splints until I changed my running mechanics from straight leg, heel-toe push-off and landing to a flatter gait that lands more on the mid-foot. This reduces the direct pounding that a direct heel landing puts on a straight leg and distributes the shock of landing better (at least for me). If it were me, I'd rest until the pain had mostly gone away, stop running hills for a while and modify my stride. I'd also put more time in the gym to strengthen the lower leg muscles. If you keep pounding away with this condition you'll probably end up hurting yourself and be unable to make your half in October. I say this because I too have a minor injury that I could train through but I don't want to risk injury before my last race next week, so despite my strong urge to hit the road this week, I am holding back and only swimming for now to let the leg heal.

I'm not a doctor, though, so you should really listen to what your body is telling you with the pain and maybe see an orthopedist.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (rbeaud @ Sep 7 2009, 11:24 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2553197
New Haven Road Race today...and I was soooo close!

Back in June I stated that my goal was a sub 18 5k at the NHRR. It's a flat course that promotes itself as a record setter. Today was a nice cool morning for me and 3000 some odd racers in the 5k. At 5 min to race start I was trying to sneak in a pit stop...gave up on that and went to the start line. I fail to understand why so many children and weekend runners feel the need to clog the start area; maybe I'm just getting into my grumpies as a near 40 YO. Worked my way to within 3m of the start line. I felt like this could be a good race as my HR was 70 standing still and that energized feeling was there. The start went off and I worked my way through the crowd, though I tried to me mindful of my pace. All the same it was a fast start and I worried about what would happen down at the wire. The Garmin was crucial to my run today as I checked it quite frequently. I think my splits show the race was fairly well managed for once. I did my best to run at my pace as there were no pace setters that I could trust. Around 3k I had a pretty good cramp. All I could do was mentally remind myself that it was a short race and try to hold the pace. Over the course of the race, I continued to slowly work through traffic. One small hick-up at 4.4k as there was a timer that must have been for the 20k runners. I mistook it for 3M and picked up the pace. Luckily I realized the error soon enough to save something for the end. As I approached the finish there was a good knot of runners, so I took the outside lane and closed as best I could; I think I passed about 20 runners. My speed to finish completely surprised me and I probably should have gone for it sooner. Something for next time. I must have mistaken which pad was the finish considering the mileage discrpepancy.

1k - 3:29; 2k - 3:42; 3k - 3:41; 4k - 3:42; 5k - 3:25....17:59 by my Garmin (which was 9m short of 5k) though 18:09 per the official timers, 7th in AG and 54 OA. Could not be happier...unless I actually finished sub 18

Very happy thinking that more training could have me actually breaking 17....maybe. Something to think about for next year.

I hope everyone has a great weekend. I'll be taking in the cool climate of Bristol, England this week. I hope there is time for running.

Cheers,

Roland


Holy smoke Roland. That was an astounding performance! It had all the things we've been talking about, pretty even splits, good speed and a strong finish showing off your superior kick. I thought I was doing pretty well this summer, but this just blows it away. You've basically cut 2 mins off a 20 min 5k time in about a year. Was it all training? Have you dropped weight? Changed equipment? Maybe you should write a book!

Congrats again and sorry I didnt respond earlier.

Now on to my effort this morning which pales in comparison.

20 min w/u @ 8:16
20 min tempo @ 6:40 (3 miles)
20 min easy @ 8:20
20 min tempo @ 6:41 (2.99 miles)
2.23 mi c/d @ 8:16

Total: 13.03 miles in 1:38:26 @ 7:34

Goal was 6:44 tempo pace and 8:24 easy pace. I didnt think I was going to be able to hold the 6:44 pace in my second 20 min tempo interval. About 10 mins into the first tempo section I felt like I had to push to keep up the pace. Somehow the 2nd interval was a tiny bit easier. Even the last 10 mins were mostly uphill, I just kept thinking how good it was going to feel to nail the pace for the entire time. Having the Garmin really helped me work at keeping the pace up.

 

[rbeaud]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Sep 10 2009, 10:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2558611
Holy smoke Roland. That was an astounding performance! It had all the things we've been talking about, pretty even splits, good speed and a strong finish showing off your superior kick. I thought I was doing pretty well this summer, but this just blows it away. You've basically cut 2 mins off a 20 min 5k time in about a year. Was it all training? Have you dropped weight? Changed equipment? Maybe you should write a book!

Congrats again and sorry I didnt respond earlier.

Now on to my effort this morning which pales in comparison.

20 min w/u @ 8:16
20 min tempo @ 6:40 (3 miles)
20 min easy @ 8:20
20 min tempo @ 6:41 (2.99 miles)
2.23 mi c/d @ 8:16

Total: 13.03 miles in 1:38:26 @ 7:34

Goal was 6:44 tempo pace and 8:24 easy pace. I didnt think I was going to be able to hold the 6:44 pace in my second 20 min tempo interval. About 10 mins into the first tempo section I felt like I had to push to keep up the pace. Somehow the 2nd interval was a tiny bit easier. Even the last 10 mins were mostly uphill, I just kept thinking how good it was going to feel to nail the pace for the entire time. Having the Garmin really helped me work at keeping the pace up.


Thanks! I was feeling like my accomplishment didn't mean anything without some validation from SoSH friends

If I had a clue about what helped, you can be sure that pen would go to paper (I think it was the 3 races during the summer and the tempo runs helping me acclimate to race pace). There were several things in my favor: the weather was cool, the course seems to be almost exactly 5000m, and it was really flat. In retrospect, I am believing something in the 17's was possible. I should started at or very near the front; my net was 3 secs less than race time. That would have meant less traffic to negotiate as well. I'll have to review the Garmin because it seems my kick was too close for the finish. I definitely was a little lighter, approaching 165-ish on race day thanks to the extra miles I've logged every week (40+ MPW up from 30+). I felt good/strong at 3:42 min/k; if my previous races (previously 18:51 PB) had given me any indication of how well I could do, I would have gone for a 3:36 pace or better. Now I know what to target next year! This race has me thinking I need a more structured running program. While I am very happy about my time, it was achieved with little forethought to planning each day/week.

And pshaw about your accomplishments vs. mine. I'm not convinced your long runs wouldn't kill me. It's about having fun running and just doing it (ugh! I'm channeling Nike). Of course, I'm just as busy admiring/pining for the low 5's that other posters can achieve (hell the 20k winner avg'd 4:45 min/mi!!!).


Cheers!

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (rbeaud @ Sep 10 2009, 05:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2559285
Thanks! I was feeling like my accomplishment didn't mean anything without some validation from SoSH friends

If I had a clue about what helped, you can be sure that pen would go to paper (I think it was the 3 races during the summer and the tempo runs helping me acclimate to race pace). There were several things in my favor: the weather was cool, the course seems to be almost exactly 5000m, and it was really flat. In retrospect, I am believing something in the 17's was possible. I should started at or very near the front; my net was 3 secs less than race time. That would have meant less traffic to negotiate as well. I'll have to review the Garmin because it seems my kick was too close for the finish. I definitely was a little lighter, approaching 165-ish on race day thanks to the extra miles I've logged every week (40+ MPW up from 30+). I felt good/strong at 3:42 min/k; if my previous races (previously 18:51 PB) had given me any indication of how well I could do, I would have gone for a 3:36 pace or better. Now I know what to target next year! This race has me thinking I need a more structured running program. While I am very happy about my time, it was achieved with little forethought to planning each day/week.

And pshaw about your accomplishments vs. mine. I'm not convinced your long runs wouldn't kill me. It's about having fun running and just doing it (ugh! I'm channeling Nike). Of course, I'm just as busy admiring/pining for the low 5's that other posters can achieve (hell the 20k winner avg'd 4:45 min/mi!!!).


Cheers!


I agree tempo runs are really helpful in improving your ability to handle faster paces as well as developing some mental toughness.

After seeing how fast you're improving I think that 17:30 is in your future. Probably some more focused training and you'll be well on your way.

Nice job again!

 

[BleacherFan]

QUOTE (rbeaud @ Sep 10 2009, 05:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2559285
Thanks! I was feeling like my accomplishment didn't mean anything without some validation from SoSH friends


Yah, nice friggin job. You're still relatively new so have patience! I wasn't that fast when I started. Keep your eye on the prize and you'll keep improving...

 

[BleacherFan]

Well, for me, I think (and hope) I've hit rock bottom.

A mediocre race for me (26:38 - 61st overall) capped off by a bombshell that the course was .1 mile short. I'm officially running slower than I was before I started what I thought was a great block of training. I would have been OK with a PR - now it's not even something to build on...

I had nothing in my legs when I hit some of the early hills and a cramp at about mile 3 really killed any chance I had in making any time back. I was breathing too heavy early on and my legs felt like garbage pretty much the whole way.

I have no answers - only questions:

1. Am I just over exerting my track workouts?
2. Am I just reaching my peak speed-wise?
3. How is my mileage?
4. Do I need to race more?
5. Should I be doing more hill training?

I'm supposed to run next Sunday up at lone gull (10k championship) but I'm embarrassed to do so. I really hope it's something with the lack of racing - I really feel in good shape - I just cant make the connection come race day. Frankly I feel in better shape than what I'm finishing in.

Dave

 

[Marceline]

Finally getting back into running after having to take 2+ weeks off with tendonitis in my knee. Ran 3 miles on Thursday and again on Saturday with no pain for the first time in awhile.

Going to focus on the 5k distance this fall with the goal of a sub-22 5k. Current PR is 25:50 but I've been hitting 25-26 minutes at the 5k mark on a lot of my longer training runs recently, and was hitting low-7:00s for mile repeats last time I did a track workout, so I think it should be doable.

The half marathon (my first) in August took a lot out of me and probably led to the injury so I am looking forward to focusing on some more shorter distance stuff for now.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Sep 13 2009, 05:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2563936
Well, for me, I think (and hope) I've hit rock bottom.

A mediocre race for me (26:38 - 61st overall) capped off by a bombshell that the course was .1 mile short. I'm officially running slower than I was before I started what I thought was a great block of training. I would have been OK with a PR - now it's not even something to build on...

I had nothing in my legs when I hit some of the early hills and a cramp at about mile 3 really killed any chance I had in making any time back. I was breathing too heavy early on and my legs felt like garbage pretty much the whole way.

I have no answers - only questions:

1. Am I just over exerting my track workouts?
2. Am I just reaching my peak speed-wise?
3. How is my mileage?
4. Do I need to race more?
5. Should I be doing more hill training?

I'm supposed to run next Sunday up at lone gull (10k championship) but I'm embarrassed to do so. I really hope it's something with the lack of racing - I really feel in good shape - I just cant make the connection come race day. Frankly I feel in better shape than what I'm finishing in.

Dave


I'm going to read through your running logs again to see if anything jumps out. My first thought is that you dont do a lot of threshold stuff. You seem to do mostly track (VO2Max) and easy runs (slower than MP). You do a couple progressions, but I want to confirm that. I may be missing some other workouts in my memory.

QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2564418
Finally getting back into running after having to take 2+ weeks off with tendonitis in my knee. Ran 3 miles on Thursday and again on Saturday with no pain for the first time in awhile.

Going to focus on the 5k distance this fall with the goal of a sub-22 5k. Current PR is 25:50 but I've been hitting 25-26 minutes at the 5k mark on a lot of my longer training runs recently, and was hitting low-7:00s for mile repeats last time I did a track workout, so I think it should be doable.

The half marathon (my first) in August took a lot out of me and probably led to the injury so I am looking forward to focusing on some more shorter distance stuff for now.


If you can handle low 7s for mile repeats then you should be on the verge of sub 22 5k. How are you running the track workouts? pace, distance and recovery times?

 

[underhandtofirst]

I have my first injury of the season. My hamstrings and calves have been super tight the last 7-10 days as my training session have been pretty intense. I even took 2 days off in a row last week to rest and tried to make it up at the end of the week with yesterday being 4th in a row. I could not have been less motivated to run 20 miles yesterday morning and got a late start at 5am. 2 mil w/u, 4 x 5 min tempo (6:42 pace), 80 min easy (8:20 pace). The workout then called for another 4x5 min tempo and 2 mile c/d. Right near the end of the 80 mins part I stepped in a small depression a little awkwardly and tweaked my right hamstring. I walked for about 1/2 mile then started jogging slowly and eventually got back to about 8:30-8:45 pace. The leg felt a little sore, but no pain. I could feel it occasionally while walking and I was able to skate at my son's hockey practice that afternoon. Today it feels like a small knot in my leg. I'm planning on a easy run and a day of rest the next two days, not sure about the order yet. This seems pretty minor, but it reminded me that I have to do a better job stretching and recovering. I've stayed away from 4 straight days this summer, and I should have stuck to that and skipped Saturday. Next important workout is Thurs and I should be ok for that.

 

[rbeaud]

On a whim, I raced again last Saturday in support of the our oldest son (he finished 1st in AG @ 23:25, a new PR for him!). It was me chasing a bunch of the local high school kids. There was some wind off the water through the middle of the race so trying to duplicate last Monday's splits drained me. And then a cramp at mile two. I found myself in in debt by mile 3. Still finished at 18:21 (+70 meters, man I really appreciate that Monday was dead on 5k!). Two sub 18:30 finisheds in one week; makes me feel good.

QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Sep 13 2009, 05:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2563936
Well, for me, I think (and hope) I've hit rock bottom.

A mediocre race for me (26:38 - 61st overall) capped off by a bombshell that the course was .1 mile short. I'm officially running slower than I was before I started what I thought was a great block of training. I would have been OK with a PR - now it's not even something to build on...

I had nothing in my legs when I hit some of the early hills and a cramp at about mile 3 really killed any chance I had in making any time back. I was breathing too heavy early on and my legs felt like garbage pretty much the whole way.

I have no answers - only questions:

1. Am I just over exerting my track workouts?
2. Am I just reaching my peak speed-wise?
3. How is my mileage?
4. Do I need to race more?
5. Should I be doing more hill training?

I'm supposed to run next Sunday up at lone gull (10k championship) but I'm embarrassed to do so. I really hope it's something with the lack of racing - I really feel in good shape - I just cant make the connection come race day. Frankly I feel in better shape than what I'm finishing in.

Dave


Sheesh, wish there was something I could offer in return for your comments in the past. If it's better to be undertrained than overtrained, maybe taking it easy (or easier than you originally planned) and stockpiling some energy is what you need. And then go for broke on Sunday.

QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2564418
Finally getting back into running after having to take 2+ weeks off with tendonitis in my knee. Ran 3 miles on Thursday and again on Saturday with no pain for the first time in awhile.

Going to focus on the 5k distance this fall with the goal of a sub-22 5k. Current PR is 25:50 but I've been hitting 25-26 minutes at the 5k mark on a lot of my longer training runs recently, and was hitting low-7:00s for mile repeats last time I did a track workout, so I think it should be doable.

The half marathon (my first) in August took a lot out of me and probably led to the injury so I am looking forward to focusing on some more shorter distance stuff for now.


Keep at those long runs, for me they seemed to have helped the short distance more than would be apparent. And add some tempo runs, I'm becoming a big fan of those also.

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Sep 14 2009, 10:28 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2565192
I have my first injury of the season...


Here's hoping you recover soon. I know that hammy's can linger so don't be stubborn about training rather than resting (like me).

 

[BleacherFan]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Sep 14 2009, 10:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2565162
I'm going to read through your running logs again to see if anything jumps out. My first thought is that you dont do a lot of threshold stuff. You seem to do mostly track (VO2Max) and easy runs (slower than MP). You do a couple progressions, but I want to confirm that. I may be missing some other workouts in my memory.


Well, occasionally my 2nd workout of the week was 8x1k on the roads done at or near 5:25/5:30 pace (90 sec between reps). I guess this would be my current 10k pace I guess so technically not a threshold pace which would be more along the lines of 5:40ish pace (1/2 pace). Maybe it would benefit to do more at a slower pace. I really mixed up my 2nd workout with mile repeats on the track as well.

Also, most of my runs during the week are progressive in nature - I will start (and generally log 2 mile splits) at 7:30-7:40 pace and end up around 630-6:40 pace occasional dipping down to 6:1X.

Dave

 

[Marceline]

QUOTE (rbeaud @ Sep 14 2009, 12:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2565389
Keep at those long runs, for me they seemed to have helped the short distance more than would be apparent. And add some tempo runs, I'm becoming a big fan of those also.


What is a good long run distance for 5k training? I was thinking maybe something like 8-10 miles.

QUOTE (underhandtofirst)
If you can handle low 7s for mile repeats then you should be on the verge of sub 22 5k. How are you running the track workouts? pace, distance and recovery times?


It varies from week to week. I am part of a running club here in Providence that meets at the track once a week and they have us do various types of interval workouts. Sometimes it is time based (a recent one was 4min, 3min recovery, 3min, 2min recovery, 2min, 1min recovery, 1min) other times distance based (8x400m with 400m recovery). I have been with the group for about 2-3 months now and I can already tell it has helped me immensely. When I was training by myself I was pretty much just doing all my runs at almost the same pace all the time and wasn't really improving that much.

 

[rbeaud]

QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Sep 14 2009, 06:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2565890
What is a good long run distance for 5k training? I was thinking maybe something like 8-10 miles.


Dave and Joe can probably chime in with better info. All the same, if your ultimate goal is to run the 1/2 or full marathon then you would like your long runs to be longer. I've recenty added a fifteen mile run to my repertoire. I do not have marathon lenghts in mind for the near future yet at the very least the long run helps to burn off excess weight. I'll bet the best five k performance would come with having a double digit long runs vs. something less.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Sep 14 2009, 06:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2565890
What is a good long run distance for 5k training? I was thinking maybe something like 8-10 miles.



It varies from week to week. I am part of a running club here in Providence that meets at the track once a week and they have us do various types of interval workouts. Sometimes it is time based (a recent one was 4min, 3min recovery, 3min, 2min recovery, 2min, 1min recovery, 1min) other times distance based (8x400m with 400m recovery). I have been with the group for about 2-3 months now and I can already tell it has helped me immensely. When I was training by myself I was pretty much just doing all my runs at almost the same pace all the time and wasn't really improving that much.


I usually end up with my long run being betweem 25% and 33% of my total mileage for the week. For a 5k plans I've seen have the long run starting at around 6 and going up to 8-10 depending on how many miles you're doing for the week and how close you are to your goal race. With that said, my two best 5k runs ever were done while training for a half marathon and marathon when I was over 12 miles for my long run.

I;ve always liked doing 1000m intervals at 5k goal pace with 2-3 min jogging recoveries. I start with 3 reps then build towards 5 as fitness improves. If you can handle the 5 reps without needed to totally kill yourself you're ready to produce a time near your goal. It will be hard, but not race-type effort (i.e. fall down tired at the end)

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

Had a difficult run today as I wind up training for this weekend's race - a sprint triathlon in Dartmouth (550 m swim, 24 k bike, 5 k run). Did 5.2 miles in 41 minutes. The course has a couple of hard hills and I have been having real problems with my legs all summer, so I was running uphill through twingy thighs the whole time. It looks like I have a lot of work in the gym after the racing season ends to get my legs healthy and strong for next season because I really should be running faster times after the amount of work I have done in the past year. I was reasonably happy with the run given the state of my legs, and I think I'll do acceptably well in the race. My last race I kept getting faster as it went on, so my fitness is quite good; I have to be sensitive to my legs, though. Did a really good bike yesterday, so I think that part of the race will be quite positive. Have also had some good swims of late to save the legs, so overall I am confident that I can perform well on Sunday.

My 13-year old daughter, who is also racing on Sunday, kicked my butt in a training swim on Saturday. Amazing. I think she's going to surprise herself on Sunday.

 

[BleacherFan]

Hope everyone is staying healthy and getting good training in. For me, I have no clue how I will run on Sunday up in Gloucester (Lone Gull). It's the 10k NE championship and it was a relatively light week training wise. Some easy mileage, a short but sweet track workout on Tuesday and an off day today. I will probably end up with close to 35 miles before Sunday - last week I went into Saturday with 25 miles under my belt - maybe I was a little too rested.

Good luck to those racing! Getting to be perfect weather for those cool weekend races here in New England.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

Hope everyone had a great race weekend. Just got back from the Buzzard's Bay Sprint Tri. Did great and I am very pleased with my result.

Did the swim (1/3 of a mile, about 580 yards in pretty cold water) in about 8 minutes. Felt really good and all the work in the gym on the swim trainer is paying off. Had a fast transition to the bike as I wore all my bike stuff under the wetsuit and so only had to put on shoes and helmet. Felt really good on the bike and passed most of the people that started in the swim wave 5 minutes ahead. My legs started objecting to some hills we had to climb at the end but overall I felt very strong coming off the bike, despite a few minor cramps in my thighs. Did the bike (14.7 miles) in about 46 minutes. Another pretty good transition to the run. Felt weak at first as my legs transitioned from bike to running, and then a steep-ish hill at the beginning had me going slowly, but as I warmed up I sped up and started passing people. Finished the 3.1 mile run in about 24 minutes, and I was still speeding up as the race ended and my legs were getting warm. Total time including transitions of 1:20:41. Finished 8th in my age group and 60th overall of about 600 racers. Given that this is my second race ever, I am very happy with the result. And with that my tri season is over for this year, so now it's back to the gym for strength and flexibility, and more road work to get the legs ready for next season. I have some specific time goals I want to hit for the race distances I do, and by the end of next summer I want to be in shape to be very competitive in my age group at the sprint, Olympic and half-ironman distances. Then at some point my brother-in-law, who does marathons and ironman triathlons, is going to convince me to try an iron distance race. So I have a lot of work to do. But man oh man is tri racing a blast.

My 13-year old daughter also did the race and was fantastic. In her first race ever she did a 1:45 and despite being the youngest racer out there today finished right in the middle of the pack of the first-time racers. Incredibly proud of her. Maybe I'll get her hooked, too and we can race together all next summer.

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (Kremlin Watcher @ Sep 20 2009, 03:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2579759
Hope everyone had a great race weekend. Just got back from the Buzzard's Bay Sprint Tri. Did great and I am very pleased with my result.

Did the swim (1/3 of a mile, about 580 yards in pretty cold water) in about 8 minutes. Felt really good and all the work in the gym on the swim trainer is paying off. Had a fast transition to the bike as I wore all my bike stuff under the wetsuit and so only had to put on shoes and helmet. Felt really good on the bike and passed most of the people that started in the swim wave 5 minutes ahead. My legs started objecting to some hills we had to climb at the end but overall I felt very strong coming off the bike, despite a few minor cramps in my thighs. Did the bike (14.7 miles) in about 46 minutes. Another pretty good transition to the run. Felt weak at first as my legs transitioned from bike to running, and then a steep-ish hill at the beginning had me going slowly, but as I warmed up I sped up and started passing people. Finished the 3.1 mile run in about 24 minutes, and I was still speeding up as the race ended and my legs were getting warm. Total time including transitions of 1:20:41. Finished 8th in my age group and 60th overall of about 600 racers. Given that this is my second race ever, I am very happy with the result. And with that my tri season is over for this year, so now it's back to the gym for strength and flexibility, and more road work to get the legs ready for next season. I have some specific time goals I want to hit for the race distances I do, and by the end of next summer I want to be in shape to be very competitive in my age group at the sprint, Olympic and half-ironman distances. Then at some point my brother-in-law, who does marathons and ironman triathlons, is going to convince me to try an iron distance race. So I have a lot of work to do. But man oh man is tri racing a blast.

My 13-year old daughter also did the race and was fantastic. In her first race ever she did a 1:45 and despite being the youngest racer out there today finished right in the middle of the pack of the first-time racers. Incredibly proud of her. Maybe I'll get her hooked, too and we can race together all next summer.


Great job! I have to say reading your posts about tri races makes me want to give one a shot some day. Nice finish with the 24 min 5k.

Do you have a watch for the entire race to give you splits or do you just depend on race provided splits? Also, how do you handle chaffing in the various disciplines? The changes in clothes and conditions must set you up for some potentially painful situations. And that's above and beyond the racing itself!

 

[underhandtofirst]

QUOTE (BleacherFan @ Sep 18 2009, 06:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2575738
Hope everyone is staying healthy and getting good training in. For me, I have no clue how I will run on Sunday up in Gloucester (Lone Gull). It's the 10k NE championship and it was a relatively light week training wise. Some easy mileage, a short but sweet track workout on Tuesday and an off day today. I will probably end up with close to 35 miles before Sunday - last week I went into Saturday with 25 miles under my belt - maybe I was a little too rested.

Good luck to those racing! Getting to be perfect weather for those cool weekend races here in New England.


Dave, hope your race went well. Looks like there were some real heroes in the field up there! Your pace looked to be somewhat in line with your race last week, but I'm not sure about the terrain as Gloucester does have some serious hills.

I think I'm back on track after a small hiccup with the hamstring issue last Sunday. I took 2 days off, then went out Wednesday did a nice easy 3.5 miles as a test. Thursday was supposed to be 14 miles with tempo intervals, but I cut it a little short, but I was able to get in some tempo work. The 6 intervals ranged from 2 up to 5 mins. I eased up if I felt the hamstring getting weak. My two best intervals of 5 mins each were my last two. I took another day off and did 18 miles at a comfortable pace, I could still feel it a little. I did 1 mile last night to stretch out and this morning I did 11 and felt like I was flying. I averaged 7:50 pace which is much too fast for a regular run for me, but I wanted to see how the leg would handle it. I'm a little stiffer than normal now, but no hamstring issues so I'm good to go for my final 15 mile MP run on Sunday.

Finished the last two weeks with 52 and 54 miles even with the leg issues which is a good sign.

 

[BleacherFan]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Sep 21 2009, 10:18 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2581071
Dave, hope your race went well. Looks like there were some real heroes in the field up there! Your pace looked to be somewhat in line with your race last week, but I'm not sure about the terrain as Gloucester does have some serious hills.


Eh, it was in line but it was a disappointing PR if such an animal exists. Now that my 'racing season' is formally done I have started doing a postmordum of my running YTD. I have had highs and lows and unfortunately the lows existed in the rare racing I did. I will be posting that later this week. The course was overall flat with some smaller rolling hills along the way. Perfect weather and a beautiful course - it's too bad I really couldn't focus on the scenery.


QUOTE
I think I'm back on track after a small hiccup with the hamstring issue last Sunday. I took 2 days off, then went out Wednesday did a nice easy 3.5 miles as a test. Thursday was supposed to be 14 miles with tempo intervals, but I cut it a little short, but I was able to get in some tempo work. The 6 intervals ranged from 2 up to 5 mins. I eased up if I felt the hamstring getting weak. My two best intervals of 5 mins each were my last two. I took another day off and did 18 miles at a comfortable pace, I could still feel it a little. I did 1 mile last night to stretch out and this morning I did 11 and felt like I was flying. I averaged 7:50 pace which is much too fast for a regular run for me, but I wanted to see how the leg would handle it. I'm a little stiffer than normal now, but no hamstring issues so I'm good to go for my final 15 mile MP run on Sunday.

Finished the last two weeks with 52 and 54 miles even with the leg issues which is a good sign.


That's good news - it looks like you're starting to peak at the right time. I'm sure it took a lot to keep you off for 2 days but it will be worth it in the long run. I hate the mental edge when it comes to marathon training and training in general - sometimes you need those days off and your body refuses

Dave

 

[Marceline]

At the last minute I decided to run the CVS 5k in Providence over the weekend. After running about 30 miles/week in training for the half marathon I then had a 3 week stretch of running 8, 0, and 8 miles (due to my knee injury) so I wasn't expecting much. But the knee was feeling better so I decided to give it a go.

Finished in 23:26, an improvement of about 2 and a half minutes over my previous PR. Will try again in a couple of weeks and see if I can get under 23. I'm thinking in a smaller race where I'm not trying to weave my way around people for the first mile or so I should be able to fairly easily shave off another 30 seconds.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

QUOTE (underhandtofirst @ Sep 21 2009, 10:03 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2581048
Great job! I have to say reading your posts about tri races makes me want to give one a shot some day. Nice finish with the 24 min 5k.

Do you have a watch for the entire race to give you splits or do you just depend on race provided splits? Also, how do you handle chaffing in the various disciplines? The changes in clothes and conditions must set you up for some potentially painful situations. And that's above and beyond the racing itself!

You should tri it. Get it?

I start my watch at the beginning of the swim and use it as a guide. I look at it at the end of the swim, at the end of the bike and in the middle of the run, guessing some on how long the transitions took. The overall time ends up being right if I remember to hit the stop button at the finish, but I have to wait for official results to get the exact splits. Except in big and national races, they generally do not provide splits.

Chafing - yuck. I use a lot of body glide in the most sensitive areas (groin, thighs, underarms, chest) but it ends up wearing off so it can get pretty uncomfortable during the run. But you live with it if you love to do it.