I like it. Teams like the Red Sox who are competing for playoff spots don't really have time to develop more than an arm at a time aside from maybe the bullpen. There is no evidence that either of De La Rosa (both going into their age 26 seasons) are going to be more than #4s. It's wonderful to talk about both of their potentials and Webster's step forward . . in September against expanded rosters, but they are both post prospect age. They are much better off on teams that aren't going anywhere yet.
Sox acquire Wade Miley for De La Rosa, Webster, and minor leaguer
- Thread starter LesterFan
- Start date
Webster never struck me as a guy I'd want to have on the mound in a big game, even if he did manage to put it all together. He looks like a pants-shitter. For whatever that's worth.
More from Cameron's article.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/red-sox-reportedly-acquire-wade-miley/
Obviously if RDLR or Webster figures it out, this trade could look bad.
But I think this move improves the probability of having a cost controlled solid mid-rotation starter, which is something the Red Sox really needed. Between Ranaudo, Workman, Barnes, Owens, and Rodriguez, there is still plenty of youth to fight it out for the back of the rotation and/or bullpen (or more trade bait).
IMO both Webster and RDLR were overrated around here, and think if they succeed at all, it's more likely in the bullpen. Arizona gets some upside there, but I like it for the Red Sox too.
But I think this move improves the probability of having a cost controlled solid mid-rotation starter, which is something the Red Sox really needed. Between Ranaudo, Workman, Barnes, Owens, and Rodriguez, there is still plenty of youth to fight it out for the back of the rotation and/or bullpen (or more trade bait).
IMO both Webster and RDLR were overrated around here, and think if they succeed at all, it's more likely in the bullpen. Arizona gets some upside there, but I like it for the Red Sox too.
Yes, this is a good trade, dealing depth for a better player. And most of their most tradable assets are still here.
As Tim Britton point out.. With RDLR and Webster gone it basically guarantees the Red Sox will acquire 3 SP this off-season. There is no true #5 Candidate now.
1 - TBD
2- TBD
3- Buchholz
4- Miley
5 - Kelly
1 - TBD
2- TBD
3- Buchholz
4- Miley
5 - Kelly
Don't think Webster ever makes it, but man I'm high on RDLR. If the third player is anyone worth a damn I'll be sour on this trade.
I wonder if they saw Lester's price and where that market is and they don't think they'll get Shields. That leaves Miley and whoever Cespedes fetches.
I wonder if they saw Lester's price and where that market is and they don't think they'll get Shields. That leaves Miley and whoever Cespedes fetches.
Those Steamer projections for IP for RDLR and Webster seem to be wildly inflated. No way either of those guys sniffed 180 IP with the Sox next year. I look at this trade as trading maybe 120 IP combined for a 200 IP pitcher.
I also think there might be something to the theory that ground ball pitchers, with the massive expansion of infield shifts, is the new market inefficiency and the FO wants to load up on those guys.
I also think there might be something to the theory that ground ball pitchers, with the massive expansion of infield shifts, is the new market inefficiency and the FO wants to load up on those guys.
Nightengale going down with the Titanic
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 4s5 seconds ago
#Dbacks GM Dave Stewart denies they have a deal with #RedSox, getting Webster and DelaRosa for Wade Miley_unable to yet agree on prospects.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 4s5 seconds ago
#Dbacks GM Dave Stewart denies they have a deal with #RedSox, getting Webster and DelaRosa for Wade Miley_unable to yet agree on prospects.
Even if De la Rosa and/or Webster figure out, I still don't think this would be a horrible deal. The Sox needed a reliable innings eater who they could plug in to be a 4/5 guy and they found him. Miley is significantly cheaper than anyone they could signed on the open market to fill this slot. As we learned this year, gambling on youngsters to figure it out without viable backups is a recipe for disaster. They still have a whole AAA rotation full of youngsters and don't have to roll he dice with De la Rosa and/or to see if they put it together.
If we accept both RDLR and Webster were headed to the bullpen, this is a great trade for Boston.
I think the line on that acceptance will determine a lot of how the posting in here will fall.
I think the line on that acceptance will determine a lot of how the posting in here will fall.
I like Miley, but I admit that I loved RDLR after Pedro's endorsement and watching him pump gas for a few weeks when he had that hot stretch over the summer. Watching Rubby was one of the things I was excited about looking to 2015 ST, even if I know that this is probably the right move.
Unexciting, but makes the rotation more likely to be consistently good.
Unexciting, but makes the rotation more likely to be consistently good.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 19s20 seconds ago
If a trade is made with the #RedSox and #Dbacks involving Miley, Webster and De La Rosa will be part of deal, as @Ken_Rosenthal reports.
If a trade is made with the #RedSox and #Dbacks involving Miley, Webster and De La Rosa will be part of deal, as @Ken_Rosenthal reports.
Again if this ends up being one of these instances where Philadelphia told the Sox they wanted Cespedes and Miley in a Hamels deal then fine but the deal other than this really doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to fill a rotation full of #3 starters with the offense that Boston has constructed.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v35270677/colari-miley-strikes-out-eight-over-six-innings/?query=wade+miley
Quick review of some mlb video calms me somewhat. Miley tops out at 93, looks to have a decent change and an idea of what he is doing out there. Plus the beard. Just had a lot of hopes pinned on Rubby over the last few years.
Quick review of some mlb video calms me somewhat. Miley tops out at 93, looks to have a decent change and an idea of what he is doing out there. Plus the beard. Just had a lot of hopes pinned on Rubby over the last few years.
Pete Abraham @PeteAbe 49s49 seconds ago
#RedSox source says Wade Miley deal not quite complete. No official agreement expected tonight.
#RedSox source says Wade Miley deal not quite complete. No official agreement expected tonight.
Sean McAdam @Sean_McAdam 1m1 minute ago
Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa.
Told that hold-up to Miley-to-Red Sox deal is Dbacks choosing from a list of prospects to be included with Webster and De La Rosa.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 40s40 seconds ago
So the #RedSox privately are saying the Miley deal is done. The #Dbacks publicly are saying it's not done. Welcome to the winter meetings.
So the #RedSox privately are saying the Miley deal is done. The #Dbacks publicly are saying it's not done. Welcome to the winter meetings.
Pitchers usually have identifiable overall strategies. I was always completely intrigued by the promise of Webster. Comparisons to young Kevin Brown were more than a little intriguing. But every time I saw him I could not figure out what the hell he was doing. He didn't seem to just flood the zone with hard moving sinkers. He didn't seem to go for the corners, or he couldn't He didn't seem to have worthwhile breaking pitches. He just . . failed. Maybe they meant a 14 year old Kevin Brown. I'm sorry to see him go just because of the promise. Rubby's performance reminds me of the old Jim Leyland line uttered in Tim Wakefield's second season with the Pirates. "The problem with Tim Wakefield," he said, " is that he's never mediocre". That almost seems like a fair description of Rubby. Excellent or shitty, a bipolar starter. Good luck to both of them. As long as the minor leaguer is a B or C level prospect I'm fine with this.
Our system is so deep I need to get down towards 20 and lower before I see a guy I'd want to give up on as the throw in to this trade. Teddy Stankiewicz? Shaw? Asuaje?
I disagree. I think they can afford to start the season with no true Ace and a pile of #2-4s precisely because the offense should be good enough to carry the team to wins.Tyrone Biggums said:
Was really looking forward to seeing Rubby develop. Not confident Miley can make transition from NL West to AL West at anything better than a #4. I feel we traded 2 #5's with potential to be #3s (plus a mler) for a #4.
We're still looking for a #2 and a #1 and just lost 2 chips.
We're still looking for a #2 and a #1 and just lost 2 chips.
SydneySox said:
If we were a smaller market team maybe there would be more patience to see if a webster or de la rosa could pan out as starters. 180-200 ip from those guys is a real stretch. But there are far more talented arms knocking on the door in the minors that wouldn't allow that to happen. I'd rather see a solid #4 come in and the next wave compete for #5 and fill in in the pen.
I guess I could see Bryce Brentz going due to the glut of OFers. Although I am sure he will become known as Brandon Moss 2.0 in no time.LuckyBen said:
No, but I also haven't seen any rumblings around anyone who I'd term a #2 (or better) starter other than Hamels, who I don't believe RAJ will trade for anything we'd all consider reasonable. There is a reason that Phillies team hasn't been torn down already and its RAJ's overvaluation of his big pieces like Utley, Hamels and Lee.86spike said:
mikeford said:
I heard Jim Bowden saying the Yankees would possibly have 3 1s if they signed Scherzer (Tanaka and Pineda). Then there are the people saying Jake Arrieta is a number 2 behind behind Lester. With all of the question marks surrounding those guys, I see no reason we can't look at Clay as a 2 right now. Sure, he might suck, but so might a whole lot of other pitchers seen as a 1-3.
Hamels/Shields
Clay
Cespedes trade/or Miley with competition for 5 in spring training
Miley
Kelly
jarv said:
You beat me to this point. Both DLR and Webster came from the Dodgers with flotsam, jetsam, immense financial flexibility and one unexpected championship in the Punto trade. DLR and Webster have velocity but are still learning to pitch. Both might end up in a bullpen. Under team control, Miley has the potential to benefit from this change of scenery after leaving the Arizona bandbox. The minor leaguer going to the Diamondbacks might be the key to the fairness of this trade. Miley certainly won't replace Lester on the Sox but he will replace his innings and lefty balance in the rotation. I'm always looking for what might be the new Moneyball inefficiency in baseball (with OBP no longer the undervalued factor). Perhaps, with Kelly and Miley as the last 2 major trade acquisitions for Ben, proven major league starters still in their primes but under team control for several seasons are too undervalued. If DLR and Webster reach that point in the Diamondbacks launchpad, they will be much more valuable than they are at this moment.
It literally took Moss several flameouts and a fortuitous stint in the PCL to figure it out. Wanna wait 6 years?Merkle's Boner said:
There has been talk of the Sox looking at guys like Cueto, Latos, Zimmerman, and Porcello.mikeford said:
I highly doubt Cherington sees Wade Miley as a Lester replacement.
What.... The..... F@ck
Rdlr looked pretty Damn good and I had hopes he was a real arm, Webster is a decent bullpen arm at worst.
Rdlr is the best player in the trade for me. I need to go away and calm down and then try to talk myself into this. But this seems like a classic we fucked up so we are doing this move.
I just don't get the rush to get average starters. We have average starters. Rdlr (with upside) Owens, Kelly, all the kids. We need predictable plus pitchers.
Rdlr looked pretty Damn good and I had hopes he was a real arm, Webster is a decent bullpen arm at worst.
Rdlr is the best player in the trade for me. I need to go away and calm down and then try to talk myself into this. But this seems like a classic we fucked up so we are doing this move.
I just don't get the rush to get average starters. We have average starters. Rdlr (with upside) Owens, Kelly, all the kids. We need predictable plus pitchers.
I don't really like it.
You essentially got a .3 WAR upgrade, but I believe De La Rosa and Webster have higher upside. Wade Miley is Wade Miley. De La Rosa who sits in the upper 90′s an hits 100 with an elite changeup. Allen Webster struggles with command, but has #2 stuff with a nice Sinker,Slider, and Changeup.
At worse they were both very solid late inning relievers and possibly closers….they are also under control for more years.
I don’t hate the trade. I just buy into RDLR and Webster more than most. They traded upside for security. It wouldn’t surprise me in RDLR is as good as Miley next year. I think this trade is simply a matt of preference. I prefer upside to security. Than again: I am not going to be spending $200M of my money.
You essentially got a .3 WAR upgrade, but I believe De La Rosa and Webster have higher upside. Wade Miley is Wade Miley. De La Rosa who sits in the upper 90′s an hits 100 with an elite changeup. Allen Webster struggles with command, but has #2 stuff with a nice Sinker,Slider, and Changeup.
At worse they were both very solid late inning relievers and possibly closers….they are also under control for more years.
I don’t hate the trade. I just buy into RDLR and Webster more than most. They traded upside for security. It wouldn’t surprise me in RDLR is as good as Miley next year. I think this trade is simply a matt of preference. I prefer upside to security. Than again: I am not going to be spending $200M of my money.