Sox in on Miley

[Drek717]

This is not sounding good at all....if they trade Webster Owens Barnes RDLR or Rodriguez this will turn out bad. I could deal with Escobar and some lesser pieces going.

I'd rather keep Escobar than Ranaudo, at least Escobar looks like a good LHRP option.  Ranaudo is a one pitch guy (good curve) who needs a revelation in how his fastball looks to hitters if he's going to be successful.  Maybe he figures it out, maybe he doesn't, but if you could trade six years of that gamble for three years of the more reliable Miley I'd do it.
 
I wouldn't move RDLR or Webster, I think either one could out-pitch Miley next season.  RDLR has flashes of brilliance last year and at worst looks like a good late innings reliever.  Webster doesn't know how to use his stuff yet, when he figures it out he could be incredibly good as well.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Not that this means it isn't the Sox, but didn't Ben just say an hour or so ago he doesn't envision getting a starter by the weekend? 
 
Maybe something quick happened or he was just blowing smoke to get in and out of the presser without saying anything.

 
that might be the most meaningless quote in this thread

 

[nattysez]

 
Cotillo is another teenager right? I know he scooped some deals last year but that comment is just speculation pulled out of his ass.

 
He's actually a pretty solid reporter, but he's already backpedalling from this suggestion.
 




 

User Actions
  Follow

Bob NightengaleVerified account‏@BNightengale

The #Redsox currently are not involved in any trade discussions w #Dbacks for Wade Miley.
 

 
 
https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/542797493499490304
 

User Actions
  Follow

Bob NightengaleVerified account‏@BNightengale

The #Marlins still in picture for #Dbacks Miley
 

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Since I already played the Cliff Lee card, I'll build upon it a bit more...
 
Cliff Lee was a pretty bad pitcher in his age 25, 27 and 28 seasons. He had a very strong campaign in his age 26 season by lowering his HR9 from 1.5 to 1.0 and his BB9 from 4.1 to 2.3.
In his age 27 and 28 seasons, HR9 jumped back up to 1.3 and 1.6 while BB9 jumped back up to 2.6 and 3.3.
 
In his age 29 Cy Young year, he cut those numbers to 0.5 and 1.4 while still posting K9 and H9 numbers within his career norms.
 
I'm not going to say Wade Miley is Cliff Lee, but if he can get out of Arizona and cut down on his walks, he should be a very, very good pitcher.
 
I'm flip-flopping, and hope we get him. Still hope we're able to buy really low on him and save Cespedes for another trade though.
 
Edit: BOB NIGHTENGALE SUCKS.

 

[sean1562]

i thought we werent supposed to game thread on the main board? this thread over possibly acquiring Wade Miley has around 120 posts in about an hour . i think we should all settle down a bit

 

[amarshal2]

Since I already played the Cliff Lee card, I'll build upon it a bit more...
 
Cliff Lee was a pretty bad pitcher in his age 25, 27 and 28 seasons. He had a very strong campaign in his age 26 season by lowering his HR9 from 1.5 to 1.0 and his BB9 from 4.1 to 2.3.
In his age 27 and 28 seasons, HR9 jumped back up to 1.3 and 1.6 while BB9 jumped back up to 2.6 and 3.3.
 
In his age 29 Cy Young year, he cut those numbers to 0.5 and 1.4 while still posting K9 and H9 numbers within his career norms.
 
I'm not going to say Wade Miley is Cliff Lee, but if he can get out of Arizona and cut down on his walks, he should be a very, very good pitcher.
 
I'm flip-flopping, and hope we get him. Still hope we're able to buy really low on him and save Cespedes for another trade though.

 
Does he have Cliff Lee's plus plus (edit breaking pitch?  Did Miley's increase in K% come at the expense of his BB% and if so why should we expect a drop in his BB%?  What reason is there to hope that he will have some of the best command in baseball?
 
Edit: I realize at one point you said "i'm not saying he's cliff lee" but you made the comparison throughout and I'm not sure I understand the reasoning other than saying, "cliff lee cut his BB% without sacrificing elsewhere and that's good"

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I wonder if the Sox see something in him that they plan to fix that might help him get back to that low strikeout but really low walk guy while maintaining that 50+ percent walk rate. Maybe they will encourage him to ease up on the sliders a bit and get back to throwing more sinkers.
 
His slider percentage going up coincided with a drop in his sinkers, and there were rumblings that Arizona had pushed McCarthy away from what had made him successful by encouraging him to throw less cutters. A change undone in New York which led to a lot of success. So maybe the Sox see something similarly "broken" in Miley.
 
Wade Miley
 
Brandon McCarthy

 

[absintheofmalaise]

i thought we werent supposed to game thread on the main board? this thread over possibly acquiring Wade Miley has around 120 posts in about an hour . i think we should all settle down a bit

We aren't supposed to. That's why there aren't as many posts visible in this thread as there were a few minutes ago.
 
Please stop people. It's really a pain in the ass to deal with all these game thread posts.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Holy crap.  I posted on the 1st page about 2 minutes ago turned away and all this happened.  I'm still standing by most feelings that Webster will be as good as Miley next season.  Webster looked like he turned the page in his last several starts in the AL while being cost controlled for 6 more seasons.  I don't think Miley represents any significant upgrade to that and plenty of posters have already flushed out the numbers.  
Sorry... again, I work building stuff so I'm usually reading and posting via my cell phone.  

 

[smastroyin]

 
Maybe.  Someone else can weigh in if they think they know.  Watching Lester pitch he threw different variations of that cutter and it often moved just like a slider so I struggle to understand the difference.

 
Cut fastball movement comes from application of pressure with the fingers and a slight wrist snap.  It is a slight variation of the two seamer grip and all mechanics are fastball mechanics until the slight wrist snap. 
 
The slider movement comes from rotation of the wrist through the motion with a heavy snap at the end.  As well the grip is much different, causing more rotation of the hand through the throwing motion before getting to the point where you snap the ball out.
 
The slider is often thought to be the most injury prone pitch.  There is some data to back that up. 

 

[soxhop411]

“@ChrisCotillo: #DBacks GM Dave Stewart on rumors that #RedSox are close to Miley deal: ”We are not talking to Boston.“”

 

[Corsi]

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  11s12 seconds ago
Two officials from the #Redsox and #Dbacks say there are no active trade discussions involving a potential Wade Miley trade.

 

[bosockboy]

If this comes to life I wouldn't be surprised if Craig is involved. Big favorite of TLR.

 

[Van Everyman]

@GordonEdes: Boston writers board elevator. LaRussa already on. Writer: What can you tell us about Miley? La Russa: “You mean our Opening Day starter?''

 

[Corsi]

Sean McAdam ‏@Sean_McAdam  16s17 seconds ago
Source with knowledge of Red Sox-D'backs Miley talks: Arizona interested in young pitching in return; proposals exchanged; work to be done.

 

[MakMan44]

https://twitter.com/SteveGilbertMLB/status/542853591858311168
 
#Dbacks Stewart said return wasn't what they wanted so as of now nothing is happening on that front.
 
EDIT: Previous tweet admitting that they talked to the Sox about Miley, then the above tweet followed. 

 

[The Mort Report]

I feel like a lot of the negativity to this possible acquisition is almost knee jerk reaction to losing Lester.  Just because the #1 rotation slot is not the first hole they fill does not make this a poor decision, and it does not hamper their ability to get an ace.  I think also everyone needs to realize that the chances of a pitcher of Lester's caliber will not be on this team unless the RS sacrifice blue chip prospects.  The Webster's and Ranaudo's of the world are not going to be pieces that fetch a #1 starter, most of them are expected to be 4's and 5's, with a minimal chance at being a 3.  While Miley is not a sexy name to lead the rotation, he would be more trustworthy than anything they already have.  Having an innings eater with a 3.5-4 ERA is a fantastic #3.  

 

[amfox1]

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale  13s14 seconds ago
The Miami #Marlins and Texas #Rangers are now in active trade talks with the #Dbacks for Wade Miley after talks stalled with #Redsox.

 

[Max Venerable]

I'm in favor of this trade.  Webster and Rubby are both talented arms that have had a shot to put it together already at the ML level and have not been able to do so consistently.  When Miley was the same age as Rubby is now, he was putting up a 122 ERA+ season in the NL.  If the FO thought that either of our kids could do that, they would not be gone now.
 
Fill a rotational slot with a youngish, cost controlled known quantity that improves the team, and keep the wheel turning.  Wont be long before Owens and Rodriguez might be pushing innings anyway, both of whom seem to have better upside than Webster and RDLR.

 

[k-factory]

Both the young guys the sox gave up were overrated frankly. Webster's command is maddeningly inconsistent and his velo and K rate dropped last year. RDLR was spotty as hell and had gopher ball issues. Neither of them are promising inning eaters and likely bullpen gambles.
 
The move here is to get someone that can eat innings reliably. 
 
Sure there is no ace there but he could surprise just like Kelly. And hes cheap.
 
Still leaves them with a bunch of options. One of those is still to go get Scherzer. 

 

[Comeback Kid]

I think the perception of the cost between Miley and Samardzija are skewed in that the Sox control Miley for 3 years, while the White Sox control Samardzija for only 1.  Likewise, Samardzija will require a sizable extension, while Miley will not, at least for a couple of seasons. I think Ben showed it with Kelly too, but the ability to cost-control an asset is huge in this league and that comes at a price. De la Rosa was certainly the better of the two, but I'd give him up for a guy who is already doing what we hope De la Rosa could do. 

Well said. I'm going to withhold full judgment until the rest of the offseason moves become clear, but if this trade is viewed as an upgrade to the back end of the rotation it makes sense.