Spurs 2013-14: Jermain Defoe, The Greatest European Scorer

[soxfan121]

Good points nvalvo, I just see Villa's right foot (playing from the center-left) as a better compliment to Bale's left foot (playing from the center-right). Villa's a better passer, IMO and while he is frequently offsides, he requires more defensive attention as he's not as easily marked as the more physical and predictable (but still very good) Soldado. 
 
But URI is probably correct - both would be very nice for Spurs, as Soldado could play the center, with Villa cutting in from the left and Bale cutting in from the right, with Paulinho and Dembele marauding into the vacated space(s) created by both. 

 

[nvalvo]

Good points nvalvo, I just see Villa's right foot (playing from the center-left) as a better compliment to Bale's left foot (playing from the center-right). Villa's a better passer, IMO and while he is frequently offsides, he requires more defensive attention as he's not as easily marked as the more physical and predictable (but still very good) Soldado. 
 
But URI is probably correct - both would be very nice for Spurs, as Soldado could play the center, with Villa cutting in from the left and Bale cutting in from the right, with Paulinho and Dembele marauding into the vacated space(s) created by both. 

 
I think we basically agree about the relative merits of the two players. The question is fit. 

 

[URI]

Here is the issue though...since I've been kinda hammering Spurs the last few years about their depth, it seems weird to say this but...
 
Where are they going to play?
 
There are 6 forward/midfield positions available per game.  You figure Bale is going to play one, leaving 5 spots for...
Lennon
Gyfli
Hotlby
Dempsey
Adebayor
Defoe
Dembele
Sandro
Parker
Livermore
Huddlestone
Paulinho
Villa
Soldado
 
That's 14 bodies, even given that Spurs are pushing Parker, Huddlestone, Defoe, and Ade out the door, that's a lot of guys for not a lot of playing time, even adjusting for the injury concern. 
 
So I don't really know what the plan is, even with Spurs essentially married to playing the 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation this year.  The one thing I don't want to see happen is shoving guys like Gyfli and Dempsey out the door at a cut rate because we recruited over them.  They are still very useful players for Spurs.

 

[coremiller]

Here is the issue though...since I've been kinda hammering Spurs the last few years about their depth, it seems weird to say this but...
 
Where are they going to play?
 
There are 6 forward/midfield positions available per game.  You figure Bale is going to play one, leaving 5 spots for...
Lennon
Gyfli
Hotlby
Dempsey
Adebayor
Defoe
Dembele
Sandro
Parker
Livermore
Huddlestone
Paulinho
Villa
Soldado
 
That's 14 bodies, even given that Spurs are pushing Parker, Huddlestone, Defoe, and Ade out the door, that's a lot of guys for not a lot of playing time, even adjusting for the injury concern. 
 
So I don't really know what the plan is, even with Spurs essentially married to playing the 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation this year.  The one thing I don't want to see happen is shoving guys like Gyfli and Dempsey out the door at a cut rate because we recruited over them.  They are still very useful players for Spurs.

 
I think AVB's plan is tactical flexibility/lots of rotation.  Esp with the Europa League and potential cup runs, they need depth.  And inevitably half of those guys will be hurt in March/April.

 

[nvalvo]

I think you answered your own question: Parker, Huddlestone, Defoe and Adebayor are likely gone. I think that's selling too low on Adebayor in particular, but these things happen. 
 
That leaves nine guys for six slots — or, with Bale playing everyday, eight for five slots. 
 
Bale
Lennon 
Gyfli
Holtby
Dempsey
Dembele
Sandro
Livermore
Paulinho
 
Let's set aside Soldado and Villa for the moment. 
 
The holding midfielders players from this bunch are Paulinho, Sandro, and Dembele. I figure you play two of the three every game, rotating through when everyone's healthy. It's an impressive group of possession-minded players; I particularly admire Dembele's directness. 
 
The attacking central midfielders are Livermore, Dempsey, and Holtby. Here, admittedly, there's a bit more depth than needed, as you would typically want to play one, or occasionally two, from this group. 
 
Bale, Lennon, and Gyfli play their best football out wide — although Bale lists versatility among his many qualities. Dempsey can also play out wide. Most games, you'd want to use two of these players, including Bale as often as prudence allows. 
 
I think this leaves a spot for Soldado as a physical presence and focal point up front. I'm less sure about Villa. 

 

[URI]

Well Livermore is more a holder than Dembele and Paulinho are.  If Dembele is your holding midfielder, you're not playing with a holding midfielder.
 
Bale was better in the middle of the field than on either wing last year.
 
Last year, Spurs were best when Bale was in the middle, and Walker/Lennon were completely destructive on the right side.
 
Other than Livermore, and the 4 you figure are going to leave, that leaves a few guys that do essentially the same exact thing (I'm specifically thinking of Gyfli and Dempsey), who are used to getting significant time, and who might be a bit pissed to be behind someone else they just brought in.  I guess I'm nervous for no good reason other than I still don't completely trust AVB to get everyone to buy in.

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

URI do you not think Dembele "is" a holding midfielder or that he hasn't been instructed to be one? As I see it, he would be pretty strong in that role, but I think he's been given more box to box freedom. I'm inclined to feel the same of Paulinho, just with far more limited observation.

 

[URI]

It's a waste of his offensive skills and it exposes Spurs to having what is essentially a forward in the middle of the field.
 
As it stands right now, Dembele is behind Sandro, Livermore, Parker, Huddlestone, Paulinho and Vertonghen in terms of acceptability in that role, and that's only because I haven't seen enough of Holtby to know if he'd be better there (I doubt it).
 
Dembele's biggest attributes are his speed, his dribbling, and his passing.  Playing him deep in a holding role (where tackling, one of his biggest weaknesses) exposes him.  Even using him as a deep-laying playmaker like Xabi Alanso doesn't allow him to utilize his speed as much as Spurs should.

 

[rodderick]

All I'm going to say is I hope you guys don't spend 20 million+ on Bernard, as has been speculated here in Brazil. I'm a Cruzeiro fan and have watched many of his games, so I think I'm qualified to say he isn't worth half that.
 
Bernard is a pacey and agile winger with very good stamina and great tactical behavior. The kid is also a willing marker and will often track back to challenge the opposing fullback, you'll never have to complain about his effort level in a given match. That being said, his technique isn't anything special, he's a poor finisher and below average passer, and, worst of all, he has terrible vision and will very often play with his head down and not track the movement of his fellow atacking players.
 
To sum it up, he can be very dangerous 1-on-1 and will cause a lot of trouble if he is given space to operate in, but he struggles against tight marking and solid defensive play. He would be a good squad option as a player to be used primarily to change the pace of games, or to play in a counter-attacking style in away matches.
 
In my opinion, spending 20 million on him is absolutely ridiculous, considering Paulinho, who's pretty much the definition of a modern box-to-box midfielder, isn't costing that much.

 

[URI]

The Bernard speculation died down from what I'm seeing with the Paulinho signing (I would guess permenantly unless they sell one or two of Holtby, Gyfli, Duece, or Lennon), but thanks.
 
I knew very very little about what kind of player he is other than "hardworking winger with pace".

 

[rodderick]

The Bernard speculation died down from what I'm seeing with the Paulinho signing (I would guess permenantly unless they sell one or two of Holtby, Gyfli, Duece, or Lennon), but thanks.
 
I knew very very little about what kind of player he is other than "hardworking winger with pace".

 
 
The fact the speculation regarding him has subsided is very good news. Really, it would piss me off to no end to see my team's main rivals getting a shitload of cash for what I think is a good player and nothing more.

 

[DJnVa]

BAE trolls Arsenal fan:
 
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/spurs-full-back-benoit-assou-ekotto-trolls-an-arsenal-fan-on-twitter-with-pic-of-cesc-rvp-nasri/

 

[URI]

 

[Zomp]

Obviously the only time I've seen Paulinho is in the confederations cup, but after seeing him there its hard not to get excited about him, Dembele, and Sandro dominating midfields.

 

[nvalvo]

It's a waste of his offensive skills and it exposes Spurs to having what is essentially a forward in the middle of the field.
 
As it stands right now, Dembele is behind Sandro, Livermore, Parker, Huddlestone, Paulinho and Vertonghen in terms of acceptability in that role, and that's only because I haven't seen enough of Holtby to know if he'd be better there (I doubt it).
 
Dembele's biggest attributes are his speed, his dribbling, and his passing.  Playing him deep in a holding role (where tackling, one of his biggest weaknesses) exposes him.  Even using him as a deep-laying playmaker like Xabi Alanso doesn't allow him to utilize his speed as much as Spurs should.

 
"Holding" isn't really right to describe Dembele's role, you're right. That would suggest more of a Xabi Alonso situation, which isn't really how he plays. My mistake. What I was really referring to is that he receives the ball fairly deep and carries it forward. His role is to help the transition to attack. He doesn't play behind a striker like a Dempsey. He sits a bit deeper. 

 

[Snakebauer007]

Dembele does usually play as a pivot for Belgium so te ability is there

 

[DJnVa]

Revealing new unis tomorrow, and there are some stories that they will announce a Villa signing as well.

 

[URI]

So not only do we get ugly kids this year, but David Villa decided to go to Atletico Madrid.
 
Not a great day for Spurs.

 

[DJnVa]

Well, I guess we don't have to worry about where we'll fit everyone in.
 
The kits---I'll probably be okay after getting used to it, but I just don't really dig the HP logo...
 
EDIT: Whoa--have you seen the 3rd kit?

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

Which 3rd? Blue w/ neon green has to be a fake, no?

 

[Bailey10]

Despite Villa's age, 5 million euros seems like fee Tottenham certainty should have at least matched. It's decent value for a player who was bought for 40 million euros only a couple of season ago, especially when one compares that to the inflated transfer sums for English players/playing already in the Premiership. Seems like Villa might have had a preference to stay in Spain over moving to a new league.
 
Now that Villa is off the market, does all of Spurs attention turn to Benteke? He just handed in a transfer request to AV but wont come cheap. Lambert and Lerner slapped a 25 million pound price tag on him. 

 

[DJnVa]

Which 3rd? Blue w/ neon green has to be a fake, no?

 
Apparently it is. 
 
Just read where the 3rd kit will be announced later this summer.

 

[URI]

Times Square:
 

 

[soxfan121]

Despite Villa's age, 5 million euros seems like fee Tottenham certainty should have at least matched. 

 
It is likely they did and the player chose to stay in Spain, with At. Madrid where the team is on the fringes of CL qualification like every other non RM/Barca La Liga team with any talent at all. 
 
Moving to England isn't for everyone.

 

[Turrable]

The pattern on the second kit is horrendous but on TV they'll look pretty cool
 

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

Both keeper kits are excellent.

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

Rumors are pretty hot that Spurs in on Benteke. Villa supposedly holding out for 25m pounds. Levy opening with 18-20.
They need to make this happen.
 
Edit: Benteke re-ups with Villa for double wages. OFF.

 

[eddiew112]

Agreement reached with FC Twente for Nacer Chadli. Like the signing, it looks like depth on the wing will not be a problem this year.

 

[URI]

Holy shit, you mean that Spurs were in on someone, it was rumored, and we got it done before August 31?

 

[URI]

And also the rumor being that Ade and Defoe are being shown the door, and Spurs in for Soldado, Loic Remy, and Leandro Damaio (again), leads me to believe that we're going to get one or two of the three and minus those two.

Which leaves, again, and undermanned strike force. I really almost wonder if AVB has been hanging out with Pep.

 

[Schnerres]

Will Bale now stay at Tottenham?

 

[URI]

He keeps saying that he has no desire to leave now, and the Spurs had that extension on the table.

He's training with the team and played against Swindon...these aren't actions of a poisoned situation so I assume it's 50/50 at this point.

 

[soxfan121]

The comments from Bale about his relationship with AVB have to be seen as a positive sign that Bale will be with Tottenham through this season (and beyond, if they qualify for the CL). AVB clearly has made managing Bale, and getting the most from Bale, his #1 job priority. The entire system revolves around him and the manager is making him feel like the 70M Euro man. 

 

[DJnVa]

I woke up to Twitter lamenting that the "same old Spurs" had somehow killed the Soldado deal. That the player had agreed to terms, but then the Spurs lowered their offer to Valencia when they heard Valencia had a replacement all lined up. Soldado had apparently left London.
 
Now, it seems like they may be reconciling a bit and may be close to a deal.

 

[Schnerres]

Isn´t this just a bad business, to keep Bale?
Will he ever be worth more money? Is he worth that much money to the Spurs? I cannot believe it.
I mean, i have to admit a just saw a few highlights of last season. But when you see that players in europe switch teams for 30-40mil. and they are stars and going to be national players for germany, spain, italy, why do you keep him? I´m not saying they are better than him, no way. But don´t you think you could sell him for 70mil € and then turn that money into 2 players aged 24-25 years old, national players, whatever Tottenham needs? I know, it´s fantasy to think someone like Mario Götze would sign with Tottenham, but there´s also players from mid-table clubs who would go to the premier league.
I´m not talking about the medium-class players like Lewis Holtby, who might help somehow and improve the depth and isn´t a regular national team guy. I´m talking about guys like Negredo, Navas, Schürrle.
 
I mean, one injury, one bad half-season and Bale is only worth 35mil. And it also helps to improve the depth of the team, instead of being dependent on one superstar, i think. Although some fans maybe would run amok.

 

[URI]

You keep him because he's one of the best players in the world.

You sell him because he wants to go.

It's really that simple. Soccer is very rarely a coherent business.

 

[URI]

Also, in Hong Kong...Vertonghen just got stretchered off the field.

 

[Schnerres]

You keep him because he's one of the best players in the world.

You sell him because he wants to go.

It's really that simple. Soccer is very rarely a coherent business.

 
Don´t you think when Real or ManU knock on the door with a 70mil. € offer and a bigger salary than he gets at Tottenham, it would be very easy to say
"Dear Gareth, Senor Ancelotti would love to invest his millions into you. Not pesos, but Euros. You can earn a quarter more than here in London. You can play for the white ballet and you can have sunshine for 3/4 of the year. What do you think?"

And in that scenario, 90% of the players want to go.

 

[Blundatola]

Gareth Bale is being marketed by NBC as the face of the Premier League in the US. That's pretty valuable for Tottenham and can't be replaced even with 70 million to spend on players. He also increases their chances of Champions League qualification more than any likely replacement in my opinion. The guy is a baller. Why sell if he wants to stay? Just because there's a chance he'll eventually be worth less later when they don't want to sell him in the first place? That doesn't make sense to me. I wish my club had a player of Bale's quality who wanted to stay.

 

[Schnerres]

That´s what i asked about. Why should he actually stay.

 

[Blundatola]

I misunderstood. Perhaps he realizes he's the bonafide star at Tottenham and that's no guarantee at RM or ManU? Moves like that have certainly proven to be mistakes in the past.

 

[URI]

That´s what i asked about. Why should he actually stay.

You asked why the team would keep him. It's really simple...he's worth more to Spurs than 70 million GBP, when you count in marketing dollars, and risks, like making the Champions League.

As to why he would stay for Spurs...he might love being at the club. I know if I was him, I would probably have gone to Barcalona 2 years ago, and I'm legitimately shocked he's still on the team now and seems pretty adamant about staying. He could also see that Modric got 0 playing time for Madrid, and might not like Moyes' system, since AVB has tailored the structure of Spurs to his exact skillset.

 

[soxfan121]

I have to think part of Bale's professional future is tied to the fact that he's never, ever going to get to a major tournament for his national team. Second biggest fish in that particular pond, soon to be the biggest (if not already in ability, but not in reputation). 
 
Having a team center the entire operation (including marketing) around him is a big draw; he's the face of the franchise (to borrow an American term), he's the straw that stirs the drink (to steal another), and he's the focal point of what they do on the pitch. Management, starting with Levy and extending to AVB, caters to him and his abilities. They have, quite literally, built the entire team around him. How many other players in the world can justifiably claim that? There's a ton of egomaniacs (I'm looking at you, Zlatan) who would like to think they are as important to their clubs as Bale is Tottenham, but that list is probably five names long (Messi, Ronaldo, Schweinstieger (maybe?), and Ronaldinho (?))
 
At Barcelona or Real Madrid, Bale is just another super talented player making lots of money. He's not THE MAN. Being the face of the EPL in America is good for the Gareth Bale Brand and he's making top wages and the team is based on what he likes to do, where he likes to play, how he likes to play...why would he leave? If Tottenham doesn't make the CL, sure, I can see him going. But for Chelsea's CL win, they'd have qualified in 2012 and they were right there to the end in 13 and should be right in the mix again this year. 
 
Leaving Tottenham now would be rather dumb of Bale. Give it one more season and see where this takes you.

 

[DJnVa]

Done deal?
 
http://www.cartilagefreecaptain.com/2013/7/28/4563922/tottenham-hotspur-transfer-rumors-valencia-roberto-soldado-fee/in/4327967
 
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/sport/10576622._/?
 
The second article says they agreed to the 30 million fee, but will pay in installments.

 

[Billy R Ford]

I think silly season is reaching its peak: Real Madrid are reported to have made a http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1508461/real-madrid-bid-%C2%AC100m-unsettled-gareth-bale?cc=5901]record €100 million bid[/url] for Gareth Bale... and had it turned down.
 
IF true (and I doubt it, but it's been reported by both ESPN and the Guardian, which I generally hold in higher regard than most places) that is just plain dumb, by both sides.

 

[veritas]

I think silly season is reaching its peak: Real Madrid are reported to have made a http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1508461/real-madrid-bid-%C2%AC100m-unsettled-gareth-bale?cc=5901]record €100 million bid[/url] for Gareth Bale... and had it turned down.
 
IF true (and I doubt it, but it's been reported by both ESPN and the Guardian, which I generally hold in higher regard than most places) that is just plain dumb, by both sides.

 
This is just a different way of saying they're offering 85m Pounds.  The 100m is much more dramatic but the price they're arguing at doesn't seem to have changed.

 

[Zomp]

Still,, if I were a Tottenham fan I'd want Levy to take the 85m pounds and run.  He's shown he's always reinvested funds into the  squad.  

 

[URI]

I think silly season is reaching its peak: Real Madrid are reported to have made a [url=http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1508461/real-madrid-bid-¬100m-unsettled-gareth-bale?cc=5901][url=http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1508461/real-madrid-bid-¬100m-unsettled-gareth-bale?cc=5901]http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1508461/real-madrid-bid-¬100m-unsettled-gareth-bale?cc=5901[/url]record €100 million bid for Gareth Bale... and had it turned down.
 
IF true (and I doubt it, but it's been reported by both ESPN and the Guardian, which I generally hold in higher regard than most places) that is just plain dumb, by both sides.

 
I see little evidence that it is true at this point, other than it being a "BIG.FUCKING.RUMOUR" as Levy has shown no fear in transferring players for inflated values, plus a benefit of the Modric sale last year, Spurs and Real agreed to an information sharing agreement.
 
Now, it's obviously not outside the realm of possibility that Real would ignore that and just make a massive bid to try and unseat Bale, but what's more likely is that Real (or Spurs) leak this to the press...Real fans are satisfied they are trying to sign one of the best players in the world, and Spurs fans are satisfied because it makes Bale look like a good guy for staying, and Spurs look steadfast and strong by telling them to go fuck off.
 
I'm going to assume this is all gamesmanship and marketing until there is a solid rumor Bale is interested in leaving this summer.  As far as I can tell, there is as much truth to this as ManU rejecting £10m and Juan Mata or David Luiz from Chelsea for Wayne Rooney.
 

This is just a different way of saying they're offering 85m Pounds.  The 100m is much more dramatic but the price they're arguing at doesn't seem to have changed.

 
Well, that and Real Madrid is in Spain, Spain uses the Euro, and the story was broken by a Spanish newspaper (and Real PR wing Marca) a few days ago.

 

[Apisith]

Still,, if I were a Tottenham fan I'd want Levy to take the 85m pounds and run.  He's shown he's always reinvested funds into the  squad.  

I completely disagree. Who can they sign that will improve their team at this point of the window? If they had done this earlier and gotten something like 30m + Higuain + Di Maria then yeah, you do it. At this point, they're not going to be able to get better. Most squads are settled.

As much as I don't like Spurs, it sucks even more to see a very well run club - a club that basically all non-moneybags should aspire to - lose their best players. It's about glory at the end of the day. All those millions sitting in the bank does fuck all, as their North London neighbours can testify to. They have a very good, young manager and a young, exciting team. Selling their best player after having invested in a couple of good players would be like taking three steps back after two forward. You go for it this year. Tell Madrid to wait a year. If his value drops to 50m or so next year, so be it. It's a risk worth taking to qualify for the CL, which would in itself be worth 50m.

If this was early June, yeah, maybe you consider it, especially if you can bring in players before you actually commit to selling. But at this point? You would realistically want two or three players, which means spending 20-30m on a player. How many players are currently worth that and how many of them aren't playing for a CL team and how many would be willing to come to a team who isn't in the CL? Go for it this year. If all goes well, you qualify for the CL, can attract loads of better players with better finances and then you give Bale his wish and reinvest that sum on players like Eriksen, Draxler or Thauvin.

They also have a shot at the league this year. They haven't been far away in the past two years. Their first eleven is good enough but their squad depth was lacking. Now that they've improved on that front, they'll be more competitive in the league too and of course every other contender has many, many questions surrounding their legitimacy. This is their best chance at winning the league in a generation. In the dream scenario, they actually pull it off in which case they get to keep Bale and have loads of cash to invest next summer. You don't throw that dream away for money in the bank, especially when it is most likely going to be on offer again next year.

 

[URI]

I completely disagree. Who can they sign that will improve their team at this point of the window? If they had done this earlier and gotten something like 30m + Higuain + Di Maria then yeah, you do it. At this point, they're not going to be able to get better. Most squads are settled.

Historically, something like 40% of transfers during the summer window happen in August.