Spurs 2014-15: Have You Found Our Lost Argentine?
- Thread starter cjdmadcow
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I still hope they can get Schneiderlin. They have a bunch of good attacking midfielders and a bunch of good defensive midfielders but they don't have a deeper player to link the two together, which they haven't had since Modric left. Capoue and Sandro are destroyers, Bentaleb is just mediocre, and Paulinho and Dembele are more direct dribblers rather than passers. They need someone who can move around and create triangles and get the ball to Eriksen/Lamela/Lennon/Townsend/Chadli quickly and in space. Maybe Holtby has that ability? I haven't seen it from him though.
If they're talking to Eto'o it means Soldado has no real future here, right? I can't imagine Eto'o would want to come in and be third choice, and I also don't think Spurs would want to pay the wages Eto'o would require for a guy that far down on the depth chart. I guess it was pretty clear what Pocchetino thinks of Soldado when Kane came on as a sub against West Ham while Soldado stayed on the bench. I wonder if they'll be able to move Soldado out before the deadline, but it may be difficult to do so (both in terms of finding someone to pay his wages and in terms of accelerating the amortization accounting of his transfer fee).
If they're talking to Eto'o it means Soldado has no real future here, right? I can't imagine Eto'o would want to come in and be third choice, and I also don't think Spurs would want to pay the wages Eto'o would require for a guy that far down on the depth chart. I guess it was pretty clear what Pocchetino thinks of Soldado when Kane came on as a sub against West Ham while Soldado stayed on the bench. I wonder if they'll be able to move Soldado out before the deadline, but it may be difficult to do so (both in terms of finding someone to pay his wages and in terms of accelerating the amortization accounting of his transfer fee).
coremiller said:
I'm not sure that Schneiderlin is really that kind of player. When Wanyama has been in the side, Schneiderlin does play more of a "box-to-box" role for Southampton, but from what I can see his strengths are mainly in pressing the ball very well defensively, maintaining positional discipline, and not screwing up when in possession - sort of a Jordan Henderson profile. He's never struck me as a particularly creative or technical midfielder that will be the catalyst for finding ways to unlock opposing midfields and get the ball to attackers in dangerous positions.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I think Schneiderlin is a much better technical player than Henderson (or at least more consistent). For example, here are their activity charts from Sunday's game:
Henderson: http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755306/player-stats/56979/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Schneiderlin: http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755306/player-stats/42774/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Despite playing in the nominally weaker side that had less possession (Liverpool were 56-44), Schneiderlin was significantly more active on the ball, completing 55/64 passes vs 39/50 for Henderson, and generally from more central positions.
Spurs wouldn't need him to unlock opposing sides, just to get the ball more quickly to the players that can. Spurs need someone who can keep the ball moving quickly and pass it forward rather than sideways or backward while also being positionally responsible. They have Bentaleb playing in that spot now but Bentaleb is mediocre and overly conservative -- he doesn't give the ball away much, but his passing tempo isn't quick. IMO swapping Schneiderlin in for Bentaleb would be a meaningful upgrade.
coremiller said:
Maybe we have different definitions of "technical." I don't think you can tell much about technical quality or passing creativity from a passing chart in a single game. How much different is Schneiderlin's passing chart from Bentaleb's chart? (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755312/player-stats/126407/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor). How can you tell from comparing those charts that is one is good at quickly and incisively linking defense and attack and the other not? I think that's where you just have to watch the matches and, at least in my experience, that's not something that's ever struck me about Schneiderlin. I wouldn't disagree that he's is an upgrade on Bentaleb but asking him to fill the role that Modric played for you guys seems like a huge stretch.
I think the fact that Schneiderlin played precisely that role for Southampton kind of proves the point though, doesn't it? Soton was leaving Lallana far forward and were constantly trying to quickly transition from defense to attack, Schneiderlin played a key role in that and allowed a lot of freedom for the attacking players while not being so hopelessly defensive that the attackers were stranded.
I had a great laugh at the Henderson comment, though. What a great way to stoke a fire.
I had a great laugh at the Henderson comment, though. What a great way to stoke a fire.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
One game is only one game, sure, but the charts show that Schneiderlin does not fit a Henderson "profile" as you suggested because they are playing significantly different tactical roles, while Schneiderlin and Bentaleb play similar tactical roles, and the role that Scheniderlin/Bentaleb are playing is a more "technical" role than Henderson's in that they spend a lot more time on the ball in the center of the park. FWIW, that also jibes with my experience of watching them play. Whether Schneiderlin is "better" than Bentaleb at that role is harder to infer from the passing data b/c the data doesn't show tempo, which is my issue with Bentaleb -- for that you have to watch the games, and Bentaleb has never especially impressed me. Obviously Schneiderlin is not as good as Modric -- now that Xavi has gotten old Modric might be the best midfield link passer in the world -- but he doesn't need to be. If he can be more fluid and dynamic than Bentaleb that would make the team significantly better.
coremiller said:
OK, maybe the Henderson comparison was unfair (if hilarious). But the idea that spending time on the ball is equivalent to being a "technical" player is kind of ridiculous. My point is not that Schneiderlin is rarely on the ball but that creativity and technical quality as a passer have never struck me as his strong suit. If that's the missing link for Spurs, then you should be trying to add a player in the mold of a Cabaye or Verratti.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I would love to have a Cabaye or Veratti at Spurs, but players of that caliber aren't widely available, and when they are they tend to cost big money/wages and want Champions League football. Schneiderlin is not as good but is a cheaper, more realistic alternative.
Keep in mind that the Modric role is already being filled by Eriksen (I know, not a direct comp).
Luka didn't really start playing that deep consistently until he went to Real. His last year at Spurs was basically being the offensive fulcrum, and covering for Bale when Harry unleashed him.
Luka didn't really start playing that deep consistently until he went to Real. His last year at Spurs was basically being the offensive fulcrum, and covering for Bale when Harry unleashed him.
soxfan121 said:
I'm not a huge Chicharito fan but if Pocchetino plans on shipping out Soldado (which is my hunch) then Spurs need another striker -- they can't come out of the window with just Adebayor and Harry Kane. Chicharito has his limitations (he's not a very good passer, he's tactically inflexible, he doesn't hold the ball up well, etc.) but he has pace and he can score goals, and strikers with his EPL scoring record (38 goals in 49 starts and 53 sub appearances) that are available at a reasonable cost are few and far between. He's not THE solution but it wouldn't be a terrible move either, depending on the fee.
The additional Mexican shirt sales would just be an added bonus.
So a game played in 90 degree heat on a parking lot should not worry me, right?
Also, I just don't see the need to take a loss on Soldado and spend another 20-25M on a striker if Kane can play like this.
Also, I just don't see the need to take a loss on Soldado and spend another 20-25M on a striker if Kane can play like this.
I listened to the game through BBC audio and they mentioned the heat, but not the pitch conditions.
But no, you should not worry about this game considering the conditions. If they play flat against QPR....
But no, you should not worry about this game considering the conditions. If they play flat against QPR....
48 pass build up to the third goal. Amazing.
edit: Twice as long as any PL goal scored in 2013-14. Source: Opta
edit: Twice as long as any PL goal scored in 2013-14. Source: Opta
A few off-topic questions here. I'm heading to White Hart Lane next month for the West Brom game. First, what the hell should I wear? I'm not a Spurs fan (only Swansea fan on the board I suppose) but I'll be rooting for them at least on this Saturday and I don't want to stand out by stupidly wearing the wrong colors. Also, what pubs do you guys recommend pre-game, and what time should I show up for a 3:00 kickoff?
Appreciate any help you can give.
Appreciate any help you can give.
A lot of the fans wear normal clothes, so as long as you aren't covered head to toe in Arsenal gear, you will be fine. Best home pubs are Bricklayers Arms and the Corner Pin from what I have heard. If you are hungry, there a bunch of good take out places across the street from the stadium and you can take your food into the ground.
To get to White Hart Lane, you can either take the train to White Hart Lane station or the tube to Seven Sisters (it's about a 25 minute walk from here but you can also catch a bus). Hope this helps a bit!
To get to White Hart Lane, you can either take the train to White Hart Lane station or the tube to Seven Sisters (it's about a 25 minute walk from here but you can also catch a bus). Hope this helps a bit!
Yes, the weather in England means you pretty much can't go wrong with a black coat of some sort, many fans wear just regular clothes, you won't stick out at all in something plain
Dawson has been sold to Hull. Fee is undisclosed.
http://www.hullcitytigers.com/news/article/1415-dawson-signing-1877046.aspx
http://www.hullcitytigers.com/news/article/1415-dawson-signing-1877046.aspx
Normally, I wouldn't make a post like this but...
I'm going to miss Daws.
He was too slow, and make crippling mistakes all the time. He was no longer good enough to feature for Spurs, and the fact he played so much last year pretty much shows why Spurs finished 6th.
But he loved playing for Spurs, fought through injuries, and took the armband from Ledley King admirably over the last few seasons. He's rightfully going to be remembered as an important piece of the team for a decade, and I love that I had a chance to root for him.
I'm going to miss Daws.
He was too slow, and make crippling mistakes all the time. He was no longer good enough to feature for Spurs, and the fact he played so much last year pretty much shows why Spurs finished 6th.
But he loved playing for Spurs, fought through injuries, and took the armband from Ledley King admirably over the last few seasons. He's rightfully going to be remembered as an important piece of the team for a decade, and I love that I had a chance to root for him.
So as potential CBs Spurs now have Kaboul, Vertonghen, Dier, Chiriches, and Fazio? If you count Dier as an RB, there are 3 RBs in Dier, Walker, Naughton. At LB there's Rose, Davies, BAE, and Zeki Fryers.
I like the depth but that's a lot of first-team defenders. I'd imagine a few of those guys move on before the window. Probably BAE and one of Naughton or Walker will go, plus send Fryers out on loan somewhere?
I like the depth but that's a lot of first-team defenders. I'd imagine a few of those guys move on before the window. Probably BAE and one of Naughton or Walker will go, plus send Fryers out on loan somewhere?
Lineup:
G 1 Hugo Lloris
D 4 Younes Kaboul
D 6 Vlad Chiriches
D 16 Kyle Naughton
D 33 Ben Davies
M 7 Aaron Lennon
M 8 Paulinho
M 17 Andros Townsend
M 19 Mousa Dembélé
M 30 Sandro
F 18 Harry Kane
Substitutes POS No Name G 24 Brad Friedel D 15 Eric Dier D 41 Milos Veljkovic M 3 Danny Rose M 14 Lewis Holtby M 22 Nacer Chadli F 10 Emmanuel Adebayor
G 1 Hugo Lloris
D 4 Younes Kaboul
D 6 Vlad Chiriches
D 16 Kyle Naughton
D 33 Ben Davies
M 7 Aaron Lennon
M 8 Paulinho
M 17 Andros Townsend
M 19 Mousa Dembélé
M 30 Sandro
F 18 Harry Kane
Substitutes POS No Name G 24 Brad Friedel D 15 Eric Dier D 41 Milos Veljkovic M 3 Danny Rose M 14 Lewis Holtby M 22 Nacer Chadli F 10 Emmanuel Adebayor
Kane scores in the 45th minute.
Just before he scored, the BBC posted this comment:
Ben Johnson: Harry Kane has a bit of Danny Welbeck about him. Tenacious, good on the ball, potential ability... but no end product.
Just before he scored, the BBC posted this comment:
Ben Johnson: Harry Kane has a bit of Danny Welbeck about him. Tenacious, good on the ball, potential ability... but no end product.
I'm going to use "SHAKE AND BAKE BABY!" about 1,752 times the next time I'm watching Spurs match featuring Kyle Naughton with URI. He's going to hate me even more than usual.
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