Spurs 22/23: So, do we have a manager?

Zososoxfan

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The UCOL is fairly shitty, but I certainly rather be in it than not. People who refer to UEL as a poison-chalice and similar don't make any sense to me. I'd be thrilled if Spurs won the UEL. UEFA does need to shift more prize money to it though.

Good for Hugo. Easy for me to say, but I wouldn't take that money to live there. All that said, he should not be at Spurs next season. Forster is good enough to be the #1 if they decide to go cheap and bring in a young promising keeper behind him, or they can be adults and decide to pony up for a real keeper.

Not to piss off @OCST , but Pickford would be a great option, even if short-medium term. I'm not sure if Dean Henderson is good enough, but getting an English keeper to help with homegrown requirements is a big value-add. After those 2 prem keepers, there's some young keeper talent lower in the pyramid that might be worth looking into--e.g., Freddie Woodman, Anthony Patterson, etc. that won't cost much.

If we're looking for a non-English #1 keeper, I'd start with a list of Kobel (Dortmund), Mamardashvili (Valencia), Remiro (Sociedad), Lafont (Nantes), Vicario (Empoli), Silva (Betis), Lopez (Marseille), etc. Basically, a starter quality Big 5 keeper from a club that might not be able to keep the player from making a move. German and Dutch keepers seem to be on low wages generally, and both countries produce lots of great keepers.

I've been thinking about the squad crunch for next season quite a bit--they're going to have to do a lot of business this summer. Consider for example the outside/flank players. On the left, there's Udogie, Davies, Reggie, Sess, and Perisic. On the right, there's Emerson, Porro, and Spence. You can probably only keep 5 of those. Now, Davies and Perisic don't overlap much--Davies can play CB, LCB, LB, or LWB, whereas Perisic is basically LWB, LMF, or LW, but I don't think you can carry 5(!) left-sided players.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I've been thinking about the squad crunch for next season quite a bit--they're going to have to do a lot of business this summer. Consider for example the outside/flank players. On the left, there's Udogie, Davies, Reggie, Sess, and Perisic. On the right, there's Emerson, Porro, and Spence. You can probably only keep 5 of those. Now, Davies and Perisic don't overlap much--Davies can play CB, LCB, LB, or LWB, whereas Perisic is basically LWB, LMF, or LW, but I don't think you can carry 5(!) left-sided players.
First question is what kind of system the new manager is going to play? If we're talking back four, I am only fully confident in 3/8 of those dudes as back 4 fullbacks (Emerson, Davies and Reggie). The four of the other five have question marks over their ability to play a back four fullback to one degree or another, with Perisic having a big red X that can be seen from space like the Great Wall of China.
 

SocrManiac

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Kelleher has been linked to Spurs on some Pool forums. He’d be a starter at many EPL clubs and isn’t going to get any time unless Alisson gets injured. I’d hate to see him go to Spurs as I really like the kid and would hate to hate him, but such is life;
 

Zososoxfan

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Spurs announced that they are out on Nagelsmann after he almost certainly rejected them. I didn't even get my hopes up THAT high, but this club continues to insist bodyslamming itself onto the canvas. There are still lots of excellent candidates out there, including those being mentioned, but the bad vibes coming out of Tottenham continue. SMH
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think it might be a bullet dodged. I don’t see much reason to believe JN is a generational manager in the making like Klopp or Pep. But he almost certainly would have walked in thinking he was bigger than the club and it probably would have taken all of two weeks before he began complaining about his level of backing, etc.

Spurs need a manager who really wants to be there and who relishes the opportunity to build a new side over time at a club of this stature. And they need a manager who is going to work productively with Levy and the DoF of the future instead of sniping at them.
 

Zososoxfan

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So is Spurs lack of hiring at TD due to already having the guy/gal in place, but unable to announce it until after the season (optimistic view)? Or is this just a clusterfuck of a grand magnitude (realist view)?
 

Jimy Hendrix

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So is Spurs lack of hiring at TD due to already having the guy/gal in place, but unable to announce it until after the season (optimistic view)? Or is this just a clusterfuck of a grand magnitude (realist view)?
If they had it lined up, I imagine we wouldn’t be hearing about multiple candidates, so I assume clusterfuck.
 

Zososoxfan

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Arne Slot looks like it's really starting to gain steam. Whether they announce the manager ahead of the DOF remains to be seen. I wish they'd just go about their biz quietly rather than the shitshowdumpsterfirecircus. I get the feeling that Levy enjoys the attention Tottenham's getting as a "big club", even if the coverage is overwhelmingly and deservedly negative. The sloppy PR from Spurs is the cherry on the shit sundae.
 

DJnVa

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Another defeat in what may be Kane's last home game.

He has set a record by scoring in 28 league games.
 

Zososoxfan

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It's gonna be Slot IMO. I think Nagelsmann 1) wants a lot of input re the TD situation and 2) carries the risk of being too big for the club.

Simultaneously, I think Levy is enjoying some of the 'big club' turmoil right now. I mean, I'm sure he's getting reports of how much press and internet traffic the club is generating daily. IOW, I think he's somewhat enjoying the club's 'big club problems' ATM.
 

Kliq

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It's gonna be Slot IMO. I think Nagelsmann 1) wants a lot of input re the TD situation and 2) carries the risk of being too big for the club.

Simultaneously, I think Levy is enjoying some of the 'big club' turmoil right now. I mean, I'm sure he's getting reports of how much press and internet traffic the club is generating daily. IOW, I think he's somewhat enjoying the club's 'big club problems' ATM.
You've said this a few times, and while I'm sure Levy wants Spurs to be considered a big club, is there any real evidence to suggest he would enjoy largely negative media headlines about his inability to find a manager?
 

Zososoxfan

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You've said this a few times, and while I'm sure Levy wants Spurs to be considered a big club, is there any real evidence to suggest he would enjoy largely negative media headlines about his inability to find a manager?
The only real evidence I have about Levy wanting to operate like a big club is Spurs signing onto the Super League, his statements about wanting to compete with the top EPL clubs, his assessment of Spurs financial position, and bringing in win-now managers in Mourinho and Conte. I'm not saying this tongue-in-cheek--with the exception of the Super League--all of those things can be justified as business decisions. Rather, it's my gut feel about how the club's acting and the PR (transparently being fed directly by the club) approach.

To tackle your question more directly, the lack of hiring a TD and/or manager or even make an announcement about it has left the club aimless during this hugely important period of the calendar. I recognize it's possible that whenever the offseason officially starts (let's call it June 1st for shorthand) Levy will be ready and armed with these announcements, but that's just not the way global football tends to work.

Actually, one other bit of info cuts in this direction--and it's the defiant attitude he's espoused recently about fans basically being ungrateful for what he's done. I'm specifically thinking of his event at Oxford or Cambridge.
 

Zososoxfan

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I was thinking about how much the club has at stake on Sunday, and the answer is about $20M (E), at most:

After being crowned champions yesterday evening, Roma’s final tally of prize money earned from the UEFA Conference League is in.

The Giallorossi earned nearly €20 million in UEFA prize money after winning the competition and securing their first European title after beating Feyenoord 1-0.

The capital club benefitted tremendously from being the only Italian club in the competition, which earned them 100% of the country’s market pool worth €4.36 million. In addition, their strong ten-year UEFA coefficient resulted in Roma earning the thied largest share (€1.34) of the €23.5 million pot shared amongst participating clubs.

Although the prize money pales in comparison to the Champions League, Roma still earned an important figure totaling €19.63 million in prize money from UEFA.

Group Stage €5.75 million
Group Qualification €2.94m
Per victory (x4) €500,000
Per draw (x1) €166,000
Group Winner €650,000
Knockout Stage €8.90 million
Round of 32 €300,000
Round of 16 €600,000
Quarterfinal €1.00m
Semifinal €2.00m
Champion €5.00m
Additional €5.70 million
UEFA Coefficient Shares Pool €1.34m
Market Pool €4.36m
Total €19.63 million
https://romapress.net/romas-total-prize-money-revealed-after-conference-league-win/

I know most people want Spurs to miss out on UCOL, but I disagree. I want Spurs and Barca and any other club I support in as many competitions as possible. Especially one where the ability to win a trophy is non-zero. Now, I do think the manager should rotate heavily in the early rounds, but nonetheless I want Spurs to reach for the stars and nab 7th on Sunday. Leeds have a small chance of pipping Everton to avoid relegation (I believe) so I imagine they will come out ready to play at some level. Everton play Bournemouth, who are just safe from relegation though, so Everton should likely be able to get a result from that.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I was thinking about how much the club has at stake on Sunday, and the answer is about $20M (E), at most:



https://romapress.net/romas-total-prize-money-revealed-after-conference-league-win/

I know most people want Spurs to miss out on UCOL, but I disagree. I want Spurs and Barca and any other club I support in as many competitions as possible. Especially one where the ability to win a trophy is non-zero. Now, I do think the manager should rotate heavily in the early rounds, but nonetheless I want Spurs to reach for the stars and nab 7th on Sunday. Leeds have a small chance of pipping Everton to avoid relegation (I believe) so I imagine they will come out ready to play at some level. Everton play Bournemouth, who are just safe from relegation though, so Everton should likely be able to get a result from that.
The crowd at Elland Road will be gale force, but if there's a club in the EPL who are as shattered mentally as Spurs it's Leeds, with Leeds in probably even worse shape. Could be a real "stoppable force vs. movable object" battle to see Spurs score a goal and then Leeds collapse while Spurs simultaneously completely switch off.

I agree that I'd rather have Spurs in that competition. They're not too good for it, based on all available evidence, and they need to win something.
 

67YAZ

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From my casual interest in the Eredivisie, Slot is a high risk/high reward type hire.

Feynoord plays a very aggressive 4-2-3-1. They like to hold possession by getting the fullbacks way up high and one of the 2 holding mids pushed up into attack. The keeper is also very involved, with lots of possession circulated to the keeper to keep things flowing.

When they lose possession, Feynoord press hard and fast. There’s definitely a lot of Klopp heavy metal football in the overall approach.

Feynoord didn’t really have to bunker down often this season - they won the league by 10 points with +50GD. But Slot is often compare to Cruyff and Bielsa for the way he drills tactical intelligence and spatial awareness into his players. They’re expected to read the game and move accordingly.

When Feynoord regain possession, they go vertical fast. They counter at full speed with a lot of fluidity. If that results in a turnover high up the pitch, then that’s just an opportunity to counterpress.

The big risk here is that Slot only has 4.5 years of managerial experience and has spent his entire playing and coaching career in the NL. He’s had a lot of success in that time and league. Does he have some home brewed, novel ideas and approaches that will give Spurs an edge in the EPL? Or is he going to find it hard to to translate his set up to a more difficult, physical league with older, higher profile & bigger ego players?

And how much backing does he get to remake the squad in his preferred image? Sound like te Klasse turned down the opportunity to move with Slot and recreate the Feynoord magic in London. So who is shopping for the groceries and does everyone agree on the right ingredients for this recipe?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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From my casual interest in the Eredivisie, Slot is a high risk/high reward type hire.

Feynoord plays a very aggressive 4-2-3-1. They like to hold possession by getting the fullbacks way up high and one of the 2 holding mids pushed up into attack. The keeper is also very involved, with lots of possession circulated to the keeper to keep things flowing.

When they lose possession, Feynoord press hard and fast. There’s definitely a lot of Klopp heavy metal football in the overall approach.

Feynoord didn’t really have to bunker down often this season - they won the league by 10 points with +50GD. But Slot is often compare to Cruyff and Bielsa for the way he drills tactical intelligence and spatial awareness into his players. They’re expected to read the game and move accordingly.

When Feynoord regain possession, they go vertical fast. They counter at full speed with a lot of fluidity. If that results in a turnover high up the pitch, then that’s just an opportunity to counterpress.

The big risk here is that Slot only has 4.5 years of managerial experience and has spent his entire playing and coaching career in the NL. He’s had a lot of success in that time and league. Does he have some home brewed, novel ideas and approaches that will give Spurs an edge in the EPL? Or is he going to find it hard to to translate his set up to a more difficult, physical league with older, higher profile & bigger ego players?

And how much backing does he get to remake the squad in his preferred image? Sound like te Klasse turned down the opportunity to move with Slot and recreate the Feynoord magic in London. So who is shopping for the groceries and does everyone agree on the right ingredients for this recipe?
Sounds like an exciting style that the current Spurs roster is not set up to play whatsoever.

Slot sounds like a good hire as long as the club and fanbase is ready to commit to a significant rebuild and accept a few years of middling results as he turns over the roster and puts a new style into place.
 

Kliq

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Well, right now we have middling results and no significant rebuild.
 

Zososoxfan

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I also think the club has so many players under contract that next year the manager will have SOME players who fit the system, even if they're not perfect. There's also the issue of getting them to gel and understand the new system, but I don't think there should be endless patience.

Manager wants attacking FBs? Enter Porro, Spence, Udogie. More defensive? Emerson and Reggie. Manager wants aggressive pressing? GLC and Gil are coming back from loan. More possession and press resistance from CMF? Enter Tanguy and Bissouma.

Spurs need to buy 2 CBs and a keeper regardless, but I truly believe a lot of the squad's answers (for next year at least) are already under contract. Now, if GLC, Gil, etc. fits what the new manager wants it may not matter, as the players can agitate for a move regardless. But I honestly think there's a lot of talent under contract, and sure the club need to buy 4-5 players, but selling/loaning 5-8 is going to be the bigger problem. Especially so, if they miss out on UCOL.
 

Kliq

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The new manager/football director is also really going to have to figure out what happens with Kane. I'm thinking he is probably gone--he doesn't have any reason to wait for a rebuild and I think both Chelsea and Man U would be interested in bringing him in. Taking him out of the team, everything changes from an attacking perspective.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I also think the club has so many players under contract that next year the manager will have SOME players who fit the system, even if they're not perfect. There's also the issue of getting them to gel and understand the new system, but I don't think there should be endless patience.

Manager wants attacking FBs? Enter Porro, Spence, Udogie. More defensive? Emerson and Reggie. Manager wants aggressive pressing? GLC and Gil are coming back from loan. More possession and press resistance from CMF? Enter Tanguy and Bissouma.

Spurs need to buy 2 CBs and a keeper regardless, but I truly believe a lot of the squad's answers (for next year at least) are already under contract. Now, if GLC, Gil, etc. fits what the new manager wants it may not matter, as the players can agitate for a move regardless. But I honestly think there's a lot of talent under contract, and sure the club need to buy 4-5 players, but selling/loaning 5-8 is going to be the bigger problem. Especially so, if they miss out on UCOL.
Slot seems to play some variation of the highly structured "positional play" principals also used by Pep, Arteta, Ten Hag, and Klopp to some degree. Its a demanding type of system, all the players need high technical level and to be coachable enough to play in a very structured way, and the defenders need to be athletic enough to play a high line and defend in space. All those managers came in and over time built almost entirely new sides (still in progress in ETH's case) in order to get the right pieces in place. Other than teenagers and academy kids who hadn't really broken through yet, I think Pep, Arteta, and Klopp each ultimately kept and relied upon only a handful of senior players they inherited. Pep had the best foundation, with some truly great veteran players (Silva, Kompany, Aguero, Fernandinho) and a few others (KDB, Sterling) that had probably been bought the year before with him in mind since City's brass knew he was coming. Klopp only really kept Firmino, Henderson, Milner, and Lallana for a little while. Three plus years into Arteta's time at Arsenal and only Xhaka, Tierney, and Holding remain, all of whom might go this summer. ETH is just getting started but he began his tenure with a plan to replace almost the entire spine of the team with Martinez, Casemiro, and Eriksen last summer and now looking at a striker, GK, another CM, and maybe another CB this summer. Its not farfetched to think that in a year or two the only senior players he inherited remaining might be something like Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Varane, and Dalot.

I would imagine that for Slot to succeed, he'll have to do something similar. The most dangerous thing Levy and Spurs fans could do would be to expect a guy like Slot to come into the club and work magic with the players that are already there. You can only do so much in one window but its hard to imagine a truly successful rebuild in which 2-3 years from now that many current players remain key cogs.
 
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DJnVa

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Slot signs extension to stay where he is because of course he does.
 

Zososoxfan

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More seriously, either Levy crawls back to Nagelsmann if that's still an option, maaaaaybe tries to pip POCH!, Potter, Postecoglu, or Amorim? Is that where we're at? Maybe throw in a side of Xabi Alonso for full lololz??
 

DJnVa

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Okay, that was awesome for Lucas Moura.

Now find a manager. And maybe go get James Maddison.
 

Zososoxfan

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More seriously, either Levy crawls back to Nagelsmann if that's still an option, maaaaaybe tries to pip POCH!, Potter, Postecoglu, or Amorim? Is that where we're at? Maybe throw in a side of Xabi Alonso for full lololz??
Poch to Chelsea is official, I hope some clever fan comes up with a scathing rendition of "He's Magic" to "He's Toxic" or something.

I'd add that Rodgers is probably a serious candidate, and according to bettors is actually the favorite. Ange is second, followed by Enrique and Nagelsmann. Mason becomes increasingly likelier by the day. I wish they'd consider Gallardo.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Rodgers feels worse than Ange as a candidate, but that's only honestly because we can dream an upside to Ange that he probably doesn't have.
 

Zososoxfan

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Rodgers feels worse than Ange as a candidate, but that's only honestly because we can dream an upside to Ange that he probably doesn't have.
Ange is such an interesting case IMO, because he has more experience than Rodgers in dominating the ball and figuring out creative ways to break a low block--something Spurs badly need. However, doing it in the SPL is a far cry from the EPL, and from that perspective Rodgers has been here and done that--to some degree anyway. I'm like you that I'd prefer to dream on Ange's potential rather than knowing Rodgers' ceiling, but if I'm being honest Rodgers is a lower risk.
 

fletcherpost

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Rodgers feels worse than Ange as a candidate, but that's only honestly because we can dream an upside to Ange that he probably doesn't have.
Ange is a terrible manager. Spurs want no part of him.

Seriously, there's not a single Celtic fan that wants him to leave Celtic. I think he should turn Spurs down and see what he can do in Europe with Celtic this season. If he gets some decent results in Europe that would serve him well. I don't want him going to a club that's ungrateful to have him and see him as a bit of a dud 5th choice type.

I rate him very highly. He's very stoic, but he has a very modern way of looking at the game and how he wants it played. Celtic fans didn't want him either when he showed up, it was Ange who? Now they really realy don't want him to go. They worship the guy in a way Rodgers was never loved. He rebuilt the starting 11 in a season (2 windows) which isn't bad at any level. Champions League came a bit early in the development this season just passed. They should have got more points, but regardless they were a wee bit off the pace. I think they'll do better this season, if he stays.

I really really do not want him to go to Spurs at the moment, just cos of where Spurs are at the moment re: Kane contract situation and Levi's overall influence at the club doesn't seem conducive to harmonious team/squad building. But maybe this is the only chance he'll get so feels it's time to make the big move.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Thanks, that's actually good color to what from the outside are two superficially similar things.
 

DJnVa

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We've been here before, but it *appears* the Spurs are getting close...



There's another report which says the final 3 are Postecoglou, Enrique, and Marco Silva.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Of those three, I think Enrique would be a more fun to watch version of the same problematic process Spurs have had for the past 5 years, Ange is high risk, possibly high reward, and Silva would be an utter failure of imagination.
 

Zososoxfan

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Agreed @Jimy Hendrix , I have no problem with Ange. The more important thing is to get a manager and TD in already so we can move on. IOW, this would be a good move. It would've been a better move a month ago.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Nothing personal to the club and its fans (I generally root for them as a neutral), but this doesn't feel like a great job to take on...feels like either

a) Someone needs time and resources to come in, burn some things down, and start with a solid long term plan based around development
-or-
b) Someone comes in, looks glamorous, talks big, and throws a bunch of money at things in an attempt to make a quick fix into turning this club into the global brand that Levy & Friends think is the end goal

I'm not sure that as a manager I'd want to attempt B and I'm not sure as a club there's the patience and support necessary for a rebuild.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Nothing personal to the club and its fans (I generally root for them as a neutral), but this doesn't feel like a great job to take on...feels like either

a) Someone needs time and resources to come in, burn some things down, and start with a solid long term plan based around development
-or-
b) Someone comes in, looks glamorous, talks big, and throws a bunch of money at things in an attempt to make a quick fix into turning this club into the global brand that Levy & Friends think is the end goal

I'm not sure that as a manager I'd want to attempt B and I'm not sure as a club there's the patience and support necessary for a rebuild.
The problem with the club is that everyone after Poch has been coming in through Door B here (Nuno excepted maybe, that didn't really make sense for either thing), when Door A is what is indeed badly needed. Enrique is the current Door B candidate of the most listed options, Ange is a Door A guy, Naglesmann could be either potentially if that rekindles, and the EPL retread names that have been floated (Rogers, Silva) seem like they satisfy neither option.

Levy has been making some baby steps towards A there (some front office hires here and there), but B does really seem to be both incorrect for the club and where his heart lies.
 
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Zososoxfan

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Big Ange talking about the speculation. God, i really don't want him to go, but he's now the short money favourite in the betting markets over here.

View: https://twitter.com/BBCSportScot/status/1664259113315098624?s=20
He's a good interview

Nothing personal to the club and its fans (I generally root for them as a neutral), but this doesn't feel like a great job to take on...feels like either

a) Someone needs time and resources to come in, burn some things down, and start with a solid long term plan based around development
-or-
b) Someone comes in, looks glamorous, talks big, and throws a bunch of money at things in an attempt to make a quick fix into turning this club into the global brand that Levy & Friends think is the end goal

I'm not sure that as a manager I'd want to attempt B and I'm not sure as a club there's the patience and support necessary for a rebuild.
It might be a shit job, but it pays well! For a guy like Ange who's presumably made a lot less than Conte and Mourinho, I don't think he passes up the money and the chance to challenge himself at a higher level. Opportunities to break into the upper tier don't come around that often, and if he stays another season at Celtic and they underperform, then he may have missed his chance. These were the same reasons Potter went to Chelsea. OK, bad example!
 

Dummy Hoy

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The problem with the club is that everyone after Poch has been coming in through Door B here (Nuno excepted maybe, that didn't really make sense for either thing), when Door A is what is indeed badly needed. Enrique is the current Door B candidate of the most listed options, Ange is a Door A guy, Naglesmann could be either potentially if that rekindles, and the EPL retread names that have been floated (Rogers, Silva) seem like they satisfy neither option.

Levy has been making some baby steps towards A there (some front office hires here and there), but B does really seem to be both incorrect for the club and where his heart lies.
All of this feels true.

He's a good interview



It might be a shit job, but it pays well! For a guy like Ange who's presumably made a lot less than Conte and Mourinho, I don't think he passes up the money and the chance to challenge himself at a higher level. Opportunities to break into the upper tier don't come around that often, and if he stays another season at Celtic and they underperform, then he may have missed his chance. These were the same reasons Potter went to Chelsea. OK, bad example!
Also feels right…Although maybe part of my argument is that Spurs isn’t “top tier” right now despite all attempts to create said appearance. But they’re certainly rich enough