Prompted by the Paxton discussion in the other thread and the inevitable buy/sell/hold debates that are coming this month. The last poll was looking backward. This one is looking forward. What say you?
Kiké and Duvall yes (if we can reasonably bring up Cedanne this month), but I like keeping Turner if they're remotely competent.I am enjoying competitive baseball and I still have hope they can trade Enrique, Turner, Duvall and maybe some older pitchers for some quality prospects from a talent-rich NL team like LAD or Atl
They're actually right at .500 in every way. 21-21 at home, 21-21 on the road.I'm in the "lets see what happens" camp. It's a very up-and-down club in term of performance, and the season is half over with the club one game under .500.
Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know if/when Houck and/or Sale are coming back or who else might get injured along the way. The talent is definitely there...wherever that is!They are #1 in strength of schedule to date, and even with that, their expected W-L is 43-40... 2.5 games out of the WC. And that's with a rotation and middle infield depth chart that calls to mind scenes from the movie 1917.
Guys are coming back. The strength of their remaining schedule is 19th, with opponents who, all told, are slightly below .500. This season has been incredibly frustrating, mostly for reasons beyond their control, but that doesn't have to be the case forever.
Yep - brain fart on my part.They're actually right at .500 in every way. 21-21 at home, 21-21 on the road.
That's why I put those four options, I've kinda vacillated across all four over the past week or two.IS "All of the above" an option?
I think I vacillate among the four like every day.That's why I put those four options, I've kinda vacillated across all four over the past week or two.
I’d say that 2024 would be more open but we’d need to do some magic on the trade market. There isn’t a ton of top flight arms waiting in the minors and other than Ohtani the market is flawed/risky.I came into this season with the outlook that 2023 would be a “bridge year”. Bringing young players onto the roster and letting them develop while playing competitive baseball. Keeping the minor league pipeline moving forward with more young players both being promoted and added.
Bloom’s plan.
The playoffs would be fun, but clearly not a hard target.
IMHO, the next window for a World Series opens in 2024 and runs for a decade..
Winning the division and getting bounced quickly in the playoffs sounds a lot better than guaranteeing a last place finish by selling everything at the trade deadline. You shouldn't trade away Jeff Bagwell just to upgrade the major league roster, but I'd rather stand pat and see how things work out in August and September than losing a chance to do something this year for some lottery ticket you can't even cash in for several years.I've lived through the Lou Gorman years where the Sox would improve just enough to make the playoff and be swept by the A's to know that isn't a recipe for success in either the short-term or the long-term.
Sell. Devers, Matasaka, any arb and pre-arb players are on the somewhat untouchable list (although Dalbec needs a change in scenery). Bloom should have been on the phone yesterday trying to make a trade for Paxton.
So you want to rule out a potential 2021 scenario? Oookay. No thanks.I'm not interested in a playoff run where they will never be favored and will likely lose if they play anyone other than New York or Toronto. I think if you try to shoot for the playoffs while keeping flexibility for the future, you're basically admitting that you're just hoping for a little extra revenue at the box office before the season ends. I also think it's effectively running in place, as that approach got us what is looking like a poor redux of '22. Sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward.
Who is to say that it's a low level prospect? If Bloom is adequate at his job, he should be scouting out for high level prospects that could have an impact either in 2024 or 2025. If he trades Paxton for a low-level prospect (or even a basket of low-level prospects), he's getting fleeced. The objective should be to find a team that is in go for it now mode.Winning the division and getting bounced quickly in the playoffs sounds a lot better than guaranteeing a last place finish by selling everything at the trade deadline. You shouldn't trade away Jeff Bagwell just to upgrade the major league roster, but I'd rather stand pat and see how things work out in August and September than losing a chance to do something this year for some lottery ticket you can't even cash in for several years.
I watch pretty much every game. I like watching good baseball and if that's not available, decent baseball. Bad baseball is not preferred. Watching Paxton pitch, Turner hit, and Verdugo playing right field is much more fun than whatever terrible Hamilton they can bring up from Worcester to take their places. Getting rid of them because it's possible some future team will be better isn't something I'd like to see happen.
How'd that work out for them again? Remind me, I'm having memory issues today. And how did it work out when they tried to do the same thing the following season?So you want to rule out a potential 2021 scenario? Oookay. No thanks.
They bounced the Yankees and Rays in the playoffs and won 2 games in the ALCS. Everyone was having a great time at Fenway and the place was louder than it had been in years. It was awesome. You should have seen it.How'd that work out for them again? Remind me, I'm having memory issues today. And how did it work out when they tried to do the same thing the following season?
Worked out fine in 2021 because getting to game 6 of the ALCS is shitloads better than making tee times on October 5, and I enjoyed the fuck out of it as a fan. And so what if it didn't work out as well in 2022? Shit happens. I want the team to make the playoffs this year whether it's winning the division or slipping in as the third wildcard. Anything can happen from there. And if they can do it while continuing down the road of building for the future, all the better.How'd that work out for them again? Remind me, I'm having memory issues today. And how did it work out when they tried to do the same thing the following season?
This is why GMs get paid and get fired. I think probably inside the building nobody is making such a fine distinction -- if they can qualify for the postseason, they think they can win. So Bloom gets pressed into taking the players' side and passing on some deals, even though he might be thinking that they're nothing more than an easy out in the WC round. But if he pulls the trigger on some deals, the Shaughnessy/PeteAbe crowd starts braying for blood. Hopefully they will make a clearer case for one path or the other.How'd that work out for them again? Remind me, I'm having memory issues today. And how did it work out when they tried to do the same thing the following season?
Took the words right out of my mouth. It would have been a disappointment if the Sox missed the playoffs in 2021 given how consistent that they had been for most of the season. Even then. a large part of the fun of the 2021 playoffs was just how out of the blue and they became that year's AL Cinderella team. That said, they beat the Yankees in a one game playoff game which was pretty much 50/50 since the Sox had home-field advantage. They beat the Rays in a five game playoff series which was unexpected, but in a short series, anything can happen. They were even competitive against the Astros. But, damn, there was a lot of good fortune (and grand slams) during that run that I don't think you can count on happening any time soon. You can only hit the lottery so many times before the luck runs out.Lots of misremembering on 2021 in this thread. That team got off to a scorching start, but really started to fade in the second half. Blooms big trade acquisition was Schwarher who sat for like a month when he first got here. When he finally did play he was good, but even then we were fading. Hell, it took Devers being a hero the final game of the season to avoid playing the Jays in a play in game. This season mirrors 2021, like I mirror Brad Pitt.We were 6 games over our Pythag for that season. While fun, that team really gave a false sense of Blooms ability.
They were fun as hell in the playoffs though.
It was also the Sticky-Ban year, plus Covid-Replacement season with players bouncing in and out, with some late pushing from Jose Iglesias and Travis Shaw.Lots of misremembering on 2021 in this thread.
Would you like one of us to text you when they've locked up a post-season as over-the-top favorites? That way you won't waste your time in the meantime.How'd that work out for them again? Remind me, I'm having memory issues today. And how did it work out when they tried to do the same thing the following season?
This season could end in disappointment, so it's better to lock in the disappointment in July? If you only watch baseball to see a team win a championship, you're not going to like what you see the vast, vast majority of the time.Took the words right out of my mouth. It would have been a disappointment if the Sox missed the playoffs in 2021 given how consistent that they had been for most of the season.
I've read this many times and cannot figure out what you're saying here. Is it that selling at this year's deadline is what will determine the Sox fate in 2024? Because if so, that's a whole lot of assumption about player development and off-season activity.The big difference between the 2021 team and the 2023 team is that if this year's edition does make the playoffs (and that is a HUGE IF), making the playoffs would not only be out of the blue should they stand pat at the trading deadline, but would lead directly into another year in 2024 where the Sox are on the cusp of being marginally good vs. being .500.
That actually would be very helpful, thank you! PM me for my number.Would you like one of us to text you when they've locked up a post-season as over-the-top favorites? That way you won't waste your time in the meantime.
I recommend upgrading your crystal ball as one game playoffs no longer exist.Crystal ball time... should the Sox make the playoffs, the one game playoff is a crap shoot.
The only sell trade I see helping the 2024 club in any meaningful way is maybe trading Paxton for an almost-ready minor league prospect. Otherwise it’s pure lottery tickets that are years down the road.I've read this many times and cannot figure out what you're saying here. Is it that selling at this year's deadline is what will determine the Sox fate in 2024? Because if so, that's a whole lot of assumption about player development and off-season activity.
It's also not at all clear to me whether the return on a Paxton trade, or Paxton himself, would be more valuable to the team in 2024.The only sell trade I see helping the 2024 club in any meaningful way is maybe trading Paxton for an almost-ready minor league prospect. Otherwise it’s pure lottery tickets that are years down the road.
The rhetoric around this trade deadline already seems wildly exaggerated on the real-world impact.
Thanks. They changed it for last year. In my defense, I wasn't that locked into baseball in October of 2022.I recommend upgrading your crystal ball as one game playoffs no longer exist.
This is an absolutely ridiculous and mawkishly entitled position to take in a league of 30 professional teams.As far as I'm concerned, a season that doesn't end in a title is a failed season for the franchise, even if individual players make huge strides to give some hope for the future. And if it makes me a bad fan to not be content with a playoff run that doesn't end with a championship, then I'm a bad fan.
View: https://youtu.be/j95kNwZw8YYThis is an absolutely ridiculous and mawkishly entitled position to take in a league of 30 professional teams.
True. It really comes down to what you want. Do you want to see a team that is marginally competitive now or do you want to see a team with a better chance next year. Keep in mind that the competitive teams are all going to try to get better at the trading deadline. Standing pat, as was suggested earlier is just going to widen the gap. I look at it like inflation, if your paycheck doesn't go up and inflation does, you're actually in a worse position.This season could end in disappointment, so it's better to lock in the disappointment in July? If you only watch baseball to see a team win a championship, you're not going to like what you see the vast, vast majority of the time.
No. Nothing is ever a guarantee obviously. Looking at the template that I believe that Bloom is using for team building (based on TB's) however, its not a stretch to say that bringing in upper level prospects is going to improve the team's position. Whether Bloom is up to the task or not is really for the Bloom thread though.I've read this many times and cannot figure out what you're saying here. Is it that selling at this year's deadline is what will determine the Sox fate in 2024? Because if so, that's a whole lot of assumption about player development and off-season activity.
I think this is a really strong point. My struggle is I just don’t believe that Paxton is durable enough to bet on. Whether Bloom can swing a positive trade would indicate if MLB agrees with you or with me.The Sox biggest need is major league ready pitching- I don’t think they are going to get that in return for Paxton. They are in reasonably good shape at most other positions; given the fact that they can and likely will at least offer Paxton a QO, I imagine he stays. Risk is he gets hurt, they don’t offer a QO, but that’s a reasonable risk to take, I think.
(There’s also the fact that there isn’t really anyone in the system ready to take the starts if they move a starter. Maybe it doesn’t matter, but not being competitive down the stretch isn’t ideal).
Possibly not only my opinion.