Talib to Denver

Phragle

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Does this news affect compensatory picks?
 
86spike said:
BTW, what's with all the shitty initial reporting on the deals this year? I don't think any of them were accurately reported on their first day.
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I think it's because the media doesn't understand the info they're relaying, and then they have to get it out as fast as possible.
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Second year is effectively guaranteed unless Talib really fucks up
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Which is very possible.
 
DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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86spike said:
No it isn't.
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http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2014/03/breaking_down_aqib_talibs_contract_with_broncos
 
2014:
Signing bonus: $5 million
Base salary: $4.5 million (fully guaranteed)
Roster bonus: $2 million (seventh day of league year)
Roster bonus: $500,000 ($31,250 per game)
Cap hit: $7,906,250
2015:
Base salary: $8.5 million (guaranteed for injury only at time of signing, skill, cap if on roster third day of league year)
Roster bonus: $500,000 ($31,250 per game)
2016:
Base salary: $8.5 million (guaranteed for injury only at time of signing, skill, cap if on roster third day of league year)
Roster bonus: $500,000 ($31,250 per game)
2017:
Base salary: $11 million
Cap hit: $12 million
2018:
Base salary: $11 million
Cap hit: $12 million
2019:
Base salary: $8 million
Cap hit: $8 million
Notes: Unless Talib suffers a serious injury in the first two years of the deal, which would remove the guaranteed money in 2015 and/or 2016, the first three years are fully guaranteed for a net value of $27 million. So, dispose of the notion that it's a six-year, $57 million contract. It's really a three-year, $27 million pact because the Broncos can begin saving major money against the cap by releasing Talib in 2017. They'd save $9 million against the cap by cutting him in 2017, $10 million if he's cut in 2018 or $8 million if he's cut in 2019. Because of that, it would be surprising if Talib saw the fourth season of the deal as it's currently constructed.
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Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Now see, I wish we knew the terms of the contract the Pats offered him beyond 4/40. If the deal he got in Denver is essentially 3/27 (and presumably his agent knows this), I would love to know how the Pats contract offer was structured. How much of that proposed deal would he really have seen? 2/16? So hard to know.
 
Ed Hillel

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So "guaranteed for injury" means "guaranteed except for injury". Good to know.
 
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BigJimEd

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So both Talib and Revis will make 12M for this season.
 
Looks to me like 3/30 not 27?
 
DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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86spike said:
 
That summary is wrong.
 
The 2015 and 2016 years are only guaranteed if he is injured in the upcoming season and cannot play those years.  It's the same structure that Revis got for his 2016 year.
 
The Herald fucked that up.
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You may be right I'm seeing conflicting reports. It says injury guarantee and seems like some people are taking that as if he's injured he's guaranteed the money, while others see it as unless he's injured he's guaranteed the money.
 
So Talib tears an ACL this year and it become 3/27.
 
Ed Hillel

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BigJimEd said:
So both Talib and Revis will make 12M for this season.
 
Looks to me like 3/30 not 27?
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OverTheCap has his 2015 base as 5.5, not 8.5, which explains that difference. I think the Herland messed that up.
 
http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Aqib%20Talib&Position=CB&Team=Broncos
 


The 2015 and 2016 years are only guaranteed if he is injured in the upcoming season and cannot play those years.
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No, I think "guaranteed for injury" means it's guaranteed unless he gets injured. It's a stupid term.
 
BigJimEd

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Ed Hillel said:
 
OverTheCap has his 2015 base as 5.5, not 8.5, which explains that difference. I think the Herland messed that up.
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Yeah, Rotoworld and others have the same. Not a bad contract for either side.
 
Ed Hillel

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BigJimEd said:
Yeah, Rotoworld and others have the same. Not a bad contract for either side.
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Not a great contract for Denver in a vacuum, because it doesn't take much of the risk into consideration, but they are in a position to take the risk.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers

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86spike said:
 
That summary is wrong.
 
The 2015 and 2016 years are only guaranteed if he is injured in the upcoming season and cannot play those years.  It's the same structure that Revis got for his 2016 year.
 
The Herald fucked that up.
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I've heard in quite a few places (including a Denver reporter this morning on the radio) that his contract is essentially a 3 year contract. That would give credence to the "guaranteed over next 3 years unless injured" idea, yeah?
 
It would also fall right in line with the Bronco's offering Ware 3/30, TJ Ward having his first 2 years front loaded, etc. 
 
Talib is on the Bronco's for the next 2-3 years.
 
I also heard that they offered Revis the same contract they offered Talib, which is nuts to me. 
 
86spike

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Ed Hillel said:
 
OverTheCap has his 2015 base as 5.5, not 8.5, which explains that difference. I think the Herland messed that up.
 
http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Aqib%20Talib&Position=CB&Team=Broncos
 
 
 
 
No, I think "guaranteed for injury" means it's guaranteed unless he gets injured. It's a stupid term.
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No, the guarantee is only in effect if the player is inured.  That's a way for teams to offer something to a player in return for taking a smaller amount of guaranteed years.  Basically: here's an insurance policy for you so that if you suffer a career-ending injury, you will get your money.
 
The Pats have this in their deal with Revis (reportedly).
 
Otto

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86spike is right and the report is wrong.  Guaranteed only for injury.  What that means is they can cut him if he's not injured, and can do so on the basis of cap or performance.  That mechanism is used all the time for two reasons: (1) the team is not really on the hook if he doesn't pan out, and (2) the future (partial) guarantees don't hit the cap until the condition precedent (on the roster as of XYZ day of the league year) is satisfied.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers

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Otto said:
86spike is right and the report is wrong.  Guaranteed only for injury.  What that means is they can cut him if he's not injured, and can do so on the basis of cap or performance.  That mechanism is used all the time for two reasons: (1) the team is not really on the hook if he doesn't pan out, and (2) the future (partial) guarantees don't hit the cap until the condition precedent (on the roster as of XYZ day of the league year) is satisfied.
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This seems like a fairly ambiguous clause, doesn't it?
 
Who get's to decide if he's "injured"? Team doctors? Independent doctors?
 
What if Talib hear's rumblings about getting cut? What's to stop him from deciding "Hey, today's the day I need that hip surgery I've been looking at for the past 5 years".
 
Seems like quite the risk for both parties involved.
 
Otto

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Injury grievance procedure is an established procedure, so its not as ambiguous as it might otherwise seem.  That said, I agree that those "guarantees" need to be valued accordingly by the player and invite problems.
 
Teams use them because (a) they can, and (b) they need them to help stagger cap hits.  Think of it this way: if $20 million is fully guaranteed in a 4 year deal, $5 million of the guarantee will apply to the cap in year one, plus other amounts like salary, etc.  If only $10M is fully guaranteed and the second $10M is guaranteed for injury only in year 2, then only $2.5 of the guarantee hits the cap in year one, followed by a second proration that hits in years 2 and beyond if/when the second $10 kicks in.  With an increasing cap, teams use mechanism that to bring in players today that wouldn't otherwise fit under the cap, absorbing (or avoiding) the rest of the cap hit as the cap increases in future years.
 
tims4wins

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So given what Otto is saying, can someone take the figures posted above and break down the cap values in each year and what the "true" contract is? I have a headache.
 
tims4wins

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Thanks. That makes sense. So if they cut him after 1 year they are on the hook for $12M ($8M this year + $4M cap hit next year). If they cut him after 2 years it is $8M year 1, $7M year 2, and $3M in dead money for $18M. If they cut him after year 3 it is $8 + $7 + $10 + $2 dead money = $27M. I think that is where everyone is getting the "essentially this is a 3 year $27M deal", as they probably won't want to take on dead money after year 1 or 2.
 
86spike

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tims4wins said:
Thanks. That makes sense. So if they cut him after 1 year they are on the hook for $12M ($8M this year + $4M cap hit next year). If they cut him after 2 years it is $8M year 1, $7M year 2, and $3M in dead money for $18M. If they cut him after year 3 it is $8 + $7 + $10 + $2 dead money = $27M. I think that is where everyone is getting the "essentially this is a 3 year $27M deal", as they probably won't want to take on dead money after year 1 or 2.
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I agree that barring a big drop in production, non-career-ending injuries or discipline issues, Talib will be in Denver's plans for 3 years under this deal structure.  
 
Getting him for for what will essentially be $9M a year seems fair to me.
 
tims4wins

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Given the market, yeah, I agree that $9M seems about right (although health is a big question). But before FA began, I wouldn't have thought it would end up being so high for guys like him, Grimes, etc.
 
ivanvamp

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soxhop411 said:
Aqib Talib: Tom Brady is a good friend, but Peyton Manning is a better QB http://t.co/WiGWHHtYZn
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He might be a better QB than Brady.  Not in my opinion, and I have a good argument for TB over PM, but a good argument can be made for PM too.
 
Not to revisit THAT whole discussion for like the thousandth time.
 
Ed Hillel

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Talib must have gotten a good scouting report in the 3 snaps he played against Manning in the AFCCG.
 
Stitch01

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Other than saying "I don't have an opinion" or not taking the slightest of possible digs at the Pats for not matching the Broncos contract, not sure how less controversially he could have answered that.
 
SeoulSoxFan

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I have no problems with Talib's comments. I thought his interviews were hilarious & refreshing here, and don't mind what he's saying about Pats & Brady now. 
 
ivanvamp

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ShaneTrot said:
When he pulls up lame in the AFC championship game and does not require surgery, how much will Broncos fans love him then?
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Watch:  this will be the year he stays healthy through the AFCCG…...
 
snowmanny

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This is one of the reasons he will stay healthy. It's harder to hurt your hip on the fairway.
 
mwonow

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snowmanny said:
This is one of the reasons he will stay healthy. It's harder to hurt your hip on the fairway.
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Where's the "like" button for this? :lol:
 
dbn

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I like Talib. I loved watching him play for the Patriots. I of course prefer Revis, but they could have had both... damn. 
 
Anyhow, I hope the Broncos go 0-16.
 
dbn

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None. Just fantasizing. 
 
edit: now I re-read my post and see a typo. Meant to say "if they could have had both." 
 
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