TB Suspension: Cheater free to play again

PedroKsBambino

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As several of us with experience working with experts noted, Exponent did not shower itself in glory here, but also was set up to give the conclusion they did based on the 'facts' shared with them as inputs. They knew what they were doing was bogus, and they know it just as well (if not even more clearly today) but this is what their role is in the system.

PW and RG are the villians here. Exponent is but a dumb and very willing accomplice.
 

Saints Rest

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To me, the issue was always that we had no idea of exact numbers for the balls when the referees checked them. The party line has always been that "The Patriots’ footballs were thought to be pumped up to about 12.5 p.s.i. before the game, the Colts’ balls at 13 p.s.i." (SOURCE: NYTimes article. Emphasis mine). But no one knew that for a fact.

In the article, the author notes that "Now Pye can perform a good party trick. Toss him a football and ask about its pressure. 'I’ll say 12.3,' he said, squeezing one. He stuck a gauge in it and showed the digital result: 12.25." So if after a few weeks of testing, this scientist believes that he can identify the pressure on a football -- and he is accurate to .05PSI -- who's to say that that isn't exactly what all these other guys did, not just the refs but also the DoritoDinks. "Yeah, that feels about right. Next."

One more thing from Pye, and it gets to the heart of my contention that the issue was that the initial data was suspect: "We didn’t start from feelings. We started from facts — the facts that we had, which were complete to the degree that they were complete."
 
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Reverend

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Should this be combined into the mega thread, do you think?
 

Harry Hooper

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As several of us with experience working with experts noted, Exponent did not shower itself in glory here, but also was set up to give the conclusion they did based on the 'facts' shared with them as inputs. They knew what they were doing was bogus, and they know it just as well (if not even more clearly today) but this is what their role is in the system.

PW and RG are the villians here. Exponent is but a dumb and very willing accomplice.
Just heard the CHB on 98.5 talking about this article. He characterized critics of Exponent's work as either yahoo Pats fans or armchair scientists or competing firms.
 

lithos2003

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Of interest, to say the least. I think the title is pretty indicative of this whole story. It should have been something along the lines of "....Now they’re eager to say they were right, no matter what leading scientists and experts believe."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/sports/football/deflategate-new-england-patriots-nfl-science.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Wow - less than 4 hours apart.. I think that's a new record. :oops:
 

ifmanis5

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Just heard the CHB on 98.5 talking about this article. He characterized critics of Exponent's work as either yahoo Pats fans or armchair scientists or competing firms.
Didn't mention that Expo is literally being paid by the NFL? No conflict of interest there but those independent scientists with no skin in the game are all yahoos. He's a troll.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Just heard the CHB on 98.5 talking about this article. He characterized critics of Exponent's work as either yahoo Pats fans or armchair scientists or competing firms.
I would be happy to debate the details of Exponent's report with CHB, so long as we can record and distribute it to demonstrate that he is a know-nothing blowhard.
 

Bleedred

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10 years ago I stopped reading, watching or listening to anything Dan Shaughnessy wrote or said. It's been a marked improvement in my sports consumption life.
 

Steve Dillard

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Exponent will be issuing a statistical analysis to Wells, showing the Patriots are really 0-3 so far.
 

AB in DC

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I've always said, Exponent's scientific analysis was fine. It showed that, in a laboratory environment, they could replicate 80-90% of the deflation that was measured.

The problem was that instead of just leaving it as "we don't know about the other 10-20%, it could be a lot of different things, measurement error, the lab is not a perfect simulation of what happened in January, etc", it was written as "we couldn't find a reason for it, so it must have been human factors". Which is a bogus conclusion.
 

AB in DC

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And the NYT article was written the same way -- they tried everything they could think of, great. But they couldn't rule out something that they didn't think of, and they weren't allowed to question the inputs that Wells & co gave them.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Forgetting everything else, this always began and ended with one particular thing for me. The initial pressure to start the game was never written down. There was never a documented started point so how can there be any sort of conclusion to what happened with any degree of certainty.
 

heavyde050

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Forgetting everything else, this always began and ended with one particular thing for me. The initial pressure to start the game was never written down. There was never a documented started point so how can there be any sort of conclusion to what happened with any degree of certainty.
This is a key point. And when the referee tried to say he used a certain gauge to measure the balls (that didn't give results that fit the NFL narrative) it was relegated to a footnote.
 

BaseballJones

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After consultation with Tom Brady and our appellate counsel, we have decided to not pursue additional appeals in this matter.
I wish they would continue, simply because the NFLPA should not accept - until every last attempt has been tried - the appellate court's ruling which turned Goodell into Stalin.

Anyway, very happy to get through the suspension 3-1. We would all have accepted that at the start, and we DEFINITELY would have accepted it if we had known that Brissett would have to start two games, one with an injured right thumb.
 

dcmissle

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A cert petition would not have had a snowball's chance. We are mere months away from having this behind us entirely -- the 4th round of the next draft.

I just hope it's not replaced with some other goddamn thing.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Oh I'm sure it will be. One of the things we all need to keep in mind is that Goodell unleashed the Ginger Hammer for a made-up violation in part because the other 31 owners were pissed at the Patriots for winning too much and felt they should have been punished harder for something that had happened 8 years prior. So if the Pats continue winning after this whole thing is over, I fully expect something else to mysteriously pop up.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I have begun to refer to it as the 'competitive balance suspension' and when I think of it that way it both hurts less and makes more sense to me. I think we should try to get people to adopt that reality!
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Hah, that's a good way of putting it. Kind of the same way we'd play uneven teams or make up new rules for our touch football pickup games when I was a kid, if one team had a really good player. "OK, you can have Dave, but you guys hafta count to 7 Mississippis before blitzing!"
 

BaseballJones

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Good article here.

"In the dank and drear of an autumn Sunday, the NFL’s longest-running absurdist drama finally played out its last act. Next Sunday, Tom Brady will be back playing quarterback for the New England Patriots, having served his four-game suspension for whatever it was that Roger Goodell thinks Brady did with the footballs almost two years ago now. (Like any obscure medieval war, the Deflategate saga has gone on so long that nobody remembers what the original fuss was about.)....

"Belichick and the Patriots came very close to helping Roger Goodell make an even bigger public fool of himself. When the last scrap of the Deflategate nothingburger had been chewed up, the only rationale the commissioner could come up with for socking Brady with a four-game hiatus was that he had to power to do it. The league’s players union had given it to him. (The negotiations for the next collective-bargaining agreement ought to be a real joy. Does Armani work in Kevlar?) And it is true that Brady could have been playing yesterday had he taken the four-game hit last year but, honestly, you can hardly blame the guy for litigating every last minute out of a completely preposterous punishment."

It continues. It's nice to see other people totally seeing, and pointing out, what a giant load of BS this whole thing was.
 

lars10

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Good article here.

"In the dank and drear of an autumn Sunday, the NFL’s longest-running absurdist drama finally played out its last act. Next Sunday, Tom Brady will be back playing quarterback for the New England Patriots, having served his four-game suspension for whatever it was that Roger Goodell thinks Brady did with the footballs almost two years ago now. (Like any obscure medieval war, the Deflategate saga has gone on so long that nobody remembers what the original fuss was about.)....

"Belichick and the Patriots came very close to helping Roger Goodell make an even bigger public fool of himself. When the last scrap of the Deflategate nothingburger had been chewed up, the only rationale the commissioner could come up with for socking Brady with a four-game hiatus was that he had to power to do it. The league’s players union had given it to him. (The negotiations for the next collective-bargaining agreement ought to be a real joy. Does Armani work in Kevlar?) And it is true that Brady could have been playing yesterday had he taken the four-game hit last year but, honestly, you can hardly blame the guy for litigating every last minute out of a completely preposterous punishment."

It continues. It's nice to see other people totally seeing, and pointing out, what a giant load of BS this whole thing was.
It is Charlie Pierce so not exactly 'other people'.

edit: I'd like to see more national writers and players/owners from other teams finally admit that this wasn't about deflated footballs...and maybe even see Goddel swing his unjustified ginger hammer against another team just to see what they would say (maybe exempting the Saints).
 

InstaFace

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It's nice, but Charlie Pierce is a lifelong new englander and fan of NE sports.

As buffoonish as he is, Peter King coming around probably has swayed more opinions.