I think you have it backwards. The Cs did a S&T with TRoz and Kemba that preserved cap space for more money to Horford but Horford had already committed to PHI and wasn't signing back with BOS as Horford thought PHI had a better chance at a title (this last part is from another interview from 2019 I saw earlier). https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/6/30/20640588/report-celtics-agree-to-sign-and-trade-terry-rozier-to-the-hornets
Yup, when I said they turned "it" into a S+T, I meant the Kemba deal, not anything to do directly with Horford. Can't remember the machinations that'd occur after that, or whether we'd have been able to keep Al with just Bird rights afterward.
Yes, we would have been able to keep Al with Bird RIghts had he wanted to stay. He didn't.
Danny was very unlucky. The KG team would have won at least 2 and maybe 3 without the injury, which I think shades a lot of peoples’ memories of him. And on top of that, it’s likely the Al/Hayward/KI/Jays teams would have been legit contenders as well and grabbed a title given good health.
It is possible that he was in a Tito Francona moment. Health wasn't great and working a very stressful job. His "retirement" and eventual (not immediate) "rehirement" might have been very sensible moves for his personal well being.
Danny did a great job here but things got a little stale after the Kyrie kerfuffle/AD facepalm. It felt like Danny did the honorable thing by stepping aside, falling on the sword (& saved his son's job in the process). His last act was orchestrating the Brad hire, which led to IME and some shrewd moves by the front office. I imagine DAR/Zarren had the Horford/Kemba swap tee'd up for PBS, since Danny tried to desperately move Walker after the bubble. Wyc deserves credit for not upending the apple cart and keeping continuity. Moving Brad to the front office was the natural progression of a great basketball mind
I know it's not nearly as great a conspiracy theory but Wyc has constantly said that DA came to him in the late winter/early spring and said he wanted to step down. Danny obviously stayed around for a couple of months - even through the draft - and remains in "frequent contact" with POBOBS and has a great relationship with Wyc. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/04/30/sports/ill-always-consider-them-family-danny-ainge-is-keeping-tabs-celtics-his-fingerprints-remain/. Plus, his son still works there.
Sometimes when a guy says, "I had a heart attack, was told to have less stress, and I didn't want to die in my early 60s," we should believe them.
I’ve thought for a while that Steven’s trades for Theis and White are similar to the acquisitions of Cabrera and Mientkiwitzgdsz for the Red Sox.. two players who were exactly what was needed at the time and completely gelled the team and also played lights out defense late in games/ were perfect subs. Theis hasn’t been as effective in the playoffs, but was vital for getting through the TL injury. White has made a team that was great defensively into a brick wall.
It has sure worked out that way. But there was plenty of media commentary at the time, and a fair number of posts right here in SOSH, questioning the move. Plenty of people on this board wondered whether it wasn’t an example of Wyc cheaping out and not wanting to just let Brad go and eat the remainder of his contract, so instead kick him upstairs until his contract was up. In retrospect that is absurd, and a fair number of other posters here pushed back on that characterization. My point is simply that the consensus on this move at the time was hardly that it was a slam dunk or was obvious. And I think Wyc should get credit for more than simply not upending the apple cart when it comes to making the call that he did.
Or dumping Hanley and eating his salary, then picking up Pearce and Eo as great supplements to an already good team.
I thought Danny approached Brad first with the idea before going to Wyc? Do I have that wrong?
In compiling those I came across several posts of yours in which you did, indeed, express support for the move. And you were joined by other posters. But I think it would be accurate, overall, to describe the board’s reaction to the move as “meh.”
Lol. Yes I can’t think of a single reason why someone would unearth older posts. For whatever reason it is crappy form. Even if the point is that popular sentiment to a move has evolved. What a spectacularly insightful point you have made. Please share more!
Its a free messageboard and you can do what you want. Do you think any of the posters you have cited feel the same about the Ainge -> Stevens right now?
I tried to find it but during that season Brad during an interview about the roster in a way which implied he had decision making power. It was then mocked by talking heads as He’s not the GM! Why’s he talking about moves he’d make in the off-season! Maybe he knew already as you alluded to.
1. Ben Hogan makes a good post about the DA/BS transition. He says it was a natural progression and Wyc deserves credit for not upsetting the apple cart.
I'm fine with going back and looking up old posts, especially since "SoSH sentiment" was in question. PLUS none of those takes by posters were super strong like Brad lost the locker room and will be even worse in the front office which probably littered the radio waves. The MODs got this if anything is "bad form", you didn't violate any protocols IMO.
If you incessantly post around here like many of us do, just bound to get stuff way wrongFair point, 1-8 is better defensively and they added a ballhandler that looks to distribute.
I wanted to offer up my 2BIGz mea culpa after the trade deadline festivities... so here we are
My main concern with it was TL's fragility & 35yr old Al Horford minutes. TL has been great with the minutes increase, so my hand wringing there was wrong. BUT Al's efficiency dipped after playing too many. IME has pulled back a hair on Horford's PT and imagine the Theis acquisition will help shrink wrap Al a bit more. That concern should go away.
2BIGz is definitely here to stay... to my chagrin. It's been effective and fun to watch lately. It has posted some gaudy #s, especially after the Brooklyn walloping. Adding Theis will have IME playing 2BIGz more
It mostly works because it takes advantage of TimeLord's unique skillset. It lets TL play free safety around the paint while having Al guard the opposing BIG. That's not taking anything away from Al, who is a very good help defender. It also works because the starting 5 is a defensive juggernaut. When Jaylen Brown is your worst defender on the floor that's a good thing. AND last but not least IME deserves credit for his defensive philosophy, it's working and improving as the season moves along. Interested in seeing the C's clampdown on Denver/ATL over the next few days.
If Al starts hitting open 3's this team could go very far.
Good call Wade on being one of the few around here that was in favor of 2BIGz. The others that thought it was a good idea, credit to you also.
If only the team were playing better, then this bickering might stop. Winning will fix everything.
Ainge almost straight out says it, but not quite. Brown is fine as a 3 - maybe he is more naturally a 3 than a 2 - and Smart has no problem defensively at the 2. I'm not even sure it would be fair to call Tatum an undersized 4. And the Celtics tried the double big thing with Theis and Thompson last year and it did not work out so well. And these playoff Celtics have been very effective with one-big lineups that include Smart, White, Brown, and Tatum.
A standard way to do offense in the NBA is to get your ballhandling wing or scoring PG swtched onto a big who cannot keep up with him. If instead you have Al Horford, who can defend effectively when switched onto a those players, team defense becomes so much easier. The reason Al led the league in defending isos is because the Celtics staff trusted him to handle those situations, indeed, build their defense around him handling those situations. (Grant was #2 in the league in isos defended, BTW).
Not sure why he wouldn't come out and say it. I mean, it's not a secret that IT, Kyrie, and Kemba sucked out loud on defense.
A blind spot concerning the defensive limitations of smaller PGs is one possibility. An unwillingness to straight up admit he built a fatal flaw into his best Brad Stevens era teams is another one.
Yeah fair enough.
Building a team around these small ball-dominant point guards is a GM's crack cocaine. It's a quick way to add enough offense to make your team competitive and draw fans, but the list of NBA champion teams with these guys is very, very small, and the guys themselves have to be HOF talents (e.g. Curry, Isaiah Thomas 1.0) for it to work. You could argue that landing IT4 jumpstarted the C's rebuilding and got them back into the ECF years head of schedule, but that it also retarded their development by creating a mould where we kept slotting small scorers in to replace the guy who was hurt (KI for IT4) or who had left (Kemba for KI).
Understand your point but IT4 played like a HOFer for one season and KI is a HOFer. Don't mean to re-hash this but the KI trade was a no-brainer. KW was probably a mistake as he was never at that level but they wanted to save the salary slot (which they used to get Al, so maybe blessing in disguise?).
That's sort of my point, though: at the time they made the trade, it was a no-brainer, in part because they'd architected the team around getting a huge amount of offense from the PG position.
I'm sure KI thinks he's better than KJ or Hardaway.
Both are right now. I believe that KI and JT talk all the time, and recently, JB said that he's forged a bond with KI as Kyrie has reached out to JB for JB's thoughts on some matters. https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/jaylen-brown-discusses-how-relationship-kyrie-irving-has-changed
Second part is key. Where does everything go from here?I'm sure KI thinks he's better than KJ or Hardaway.
He has 7 AS appearances, a rookie of the year, and a ring (with an iconic shot). If you ask people whether he has the best handles ever, no one will laugh. BRef has his HOF probability at 83.7%. Whether it's more hype than substance, yes I think we're pretty sure about the bolded.
Obviously a more interesting discussion if his career stops here but certainly a no-brainer if he were to win a second ring.
Interesting, didn't realize they had made up.
Yeah, I don’t think this was really some sort of blind spot for Danny or something he doesn’t recognize. I think he was fully aware of it and tried to rectify it.
