The 25-Man Roster: A Work In Progress

Al Zarilla

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I am most likely in the minority here but I'd like to see Betts hit 3rd. I think his power would be most useful in the 3rd hole providing additional offensive capabilities to Peddy & X. Both Peddy & X can get on base and are smart base runners. Peddy can shock a team with a lead off homer and X is a steady hitter who at times can show power. However, Betts has already shown power and I'd be comfortable seeing him bat 3rd.

1. (.843/.733) Pedroia
2. (.837/.675) Bogaerts
3. (.842/.811) Betts
4. (.775/.986) Ortiz
5. (.886/.825) Ramirez
6. (.975/.736) Shaw
7. (.787/.681) Young/Holt
8. (.691/.757) Hanigan/Swihart
9. (.692/.612) Bradley
Patience. He may get there when the Sox have a guy with whom they can replace him well at leadoff. For example, the guy we compare him with more and more on this board, Andrew McCutchen, was strictly a leadoff hitter in his rookie year (2009). His second and third years, they had him split between leadoff and other high places in the order. Fourth year, he took over the third spot for good. After Ellsbury left and until Mookie started playing a lot, we struggled at leadoff. Mookie excels at it by comparison and it's really hard to give up that luxury. I agree, long term, he's the 20+ HR (and plenty of other XBH) 90-100+ RBI type guy you want hitting third.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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There's nothing wrong with a leadoff homer.

If someone thinks there is, I hope Mookie gives them a lot of data points with which to run a statistical analysis on the issue this year.
 

flymrfreakjar

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He also should steal quite a few bases this year. Between that and all the doubles, there should be a lot of games where we're off to a one run lead early, especially if Pedroia can consistently move him over.
 

rotundlio

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It's going to be hard for Shaw to remain patient with all the pressure on him and still was only a .327 OBP last year, Holt was a .311 OBP guy in his last 230 PAs last year, and Swihart was just at .319.

Swihart may improve, but it's hard to see Hanigan being much better than the .325 he's averaged over the last three seasons.

I've got a feeling Jackie's going to be up a lot with 2 outs and a guy on second. If he can just turn that lineup over and put up something like a .360-.375 like he's done in the minors, the Sox are going to score some serious runs. If he's a .310 OBP, it could get ugly at the bottom.
League average on base was .318 last year. The Red Sox' .325 was third in the American League.
 

RedOctober3829

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Help me settle a debate between a friend and myself. My friend seems to think that Christian Vazquez, when healthy, will get the majority of the playing time at catcher over Blake Swihart. I say that the value that Swihart brings being a switch-hitting catcher who produces at the plate while growing into his abilities behind the plate outweighs Vazquez's superior defensive abilities.
 

Rasputin

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Help me settle a debate between a friend and myself. My friend seems to think that Christian Vazquez, when healthy, will get the majority of the playing time at catcher over Blake Swihart. I say that the value that Swihart brings being a switch-hitting catcher who produces at the plate while growing into his abilities behind the plate outweighs Vazquez's superior defensive abilities.
How exactly are we supposed to settle this thing that can't be settled save by observation?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Help me settle a debate between a friend and myself. My friend seems to think that Christian Vazquez, when healthy, will get the majority of the playing time at catcher over Blake Swihart. I say that the value that Swihart brings being a switch-hitting catcher who produces at the plate while growing into his abilities behind the plate outweighs Vazquez's superior defensive abilities.
If Swihart is reasonably productive at the plate and not a liability behind it, he's not going to lose playing time to Vazquez. In fact, if things are going smoothly with the Swihart/Hanigan tandem, I expect they'll leave Vazquez in Pawtucket even after he's off the DL and healthy.

My thinking is the guy in danger if they bring Vazquez up is Hanigan, not Swihart.
 

RedOctober3829

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If Swihart is reasonably productive at the plate and not a liability behind it, he's not going to lose playing time to Vazquez. In fact, if things are going smoothly with the Swihart/Hanigan tandem, I expect they'll leave Vazquez in Pawtucket even after he's off the DL and healthy.

My thinking is the guy in danger if they bring Vazquez up is Hanigan, not Swihart.
Yes, I believe Hanigan will be DFA when Vazquez is ready. My argument is that Swihart will continue to be the starter and Vazquez will assume Hanigan's role as backup.
 

benhogan

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Yes, I believe Hanigan will be DFA when Vazquez is ready. My argument is that Swihart will continue to be the starter and Vazquez will assume Hanigan's role as backup.
DFA'd? Hanigan has value, thats not happening. Vaz will be worked in cautiously at the AAA level and be kept there till Swihart or Hanigan inevitably get dinged up or injured.

Sox will gladly keep three ML quality catchers in the organization after watching Sandy Leon at the plate last season.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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DFA'd? Hanigan has value, thats not happening. Vaz will be worked in cautiously at the AAA level and be kept there till Swihart or Hanigan inevitably get dinged up or injured.

Sox will gladly keep three ML quality catchers in the organization after watching Sandy Leon at the plate last season.
I don't think DDski will function similarly to the options-hoarding behavior we've gotten used to under Epstein and Cherington. Last offseason's Kimbrel trade doesn't suggest business-as-usual to me, nor does the high-priced benchings to start the season. MLB on-field performance is obviously being prioritized far beyond potential value. So I don't think it's a shoe-in that the Sox keep all three of Swihart and Vasquez and Hanigan all year.

Hanigan could certainly be moved for relief help at the deadline if two of Kimbrel-Koji-Smith-Tazawa are on the DL for the second half (and the Sox are in playoff contention). At the very least, Hanigan's option year at $3.75MM is likely enough value to start conversations on a 3-way trade.

I can also see a scenario where the Sox trade one of Swihart or Vazquez for a starter. But it's more complicated:
1. Bradley has to show enough offensive competence to be a consistent and credible #6-7 hitter;
2. Swihart needs to keep showing development at the MLB level on both sides of the plate;
3. Benintendi and Moncada both have to continue their dominance over milb pitching;
4. Vazquez has to show enough rebound from TJS to play 4-of-every-5 days hitting #9;
5. None among the Sox starting pitchers look like good enough options for both Games 2 and 3; and
6. A starter like Sonny Gray has to be available and healthy (solid #2 on a team out of contention).

What I don't think is likely is for DDski to bury Vazquez as AAA depth simply because the Sox FO fears the specter of Dan Butler postseason at-bats. It's a whole new ballgame under Trader Dave.
 

Yossarian

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Given the importance of the position and the relative ease of injury from playing it (and the fact that Vazquez is still recovering), I'm not sure I see whatever the Sox can get back for Hanigan in a trade as greater than or equal to the value in having him stick around as a solid backup, veteran presence, and all-around insurance policy.
 

lexrageorge

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I am quite certain that Vazquez will be given at least 1 month, if not 2 months, of at bats at the AAA level before being promoted to the big club. He missed an entire year, and getting 100 or so at bats in Pawtucket would be prudent. That also gives them time to see if there is any market for Hanigan as the season goes on. While backup catchers are not hugely valuable, they can be critical to some teams, and as a result can return an arm for the back end of the bullpen.
 

Rovin Romine

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There's nothing wrong with a leadoff homer.

If someone thinks there is, I hope Mookie gives them a lot of data points with which to run a statistical analysis on the issue this year.
I was curious - the most leadoff homers in a single season were by Soriano 13 in 2003, followed by 12 in 2007.
 

geoduck no quahog

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There's a great debate to be had (maybe it's being done somewhere here that I haven't scrolled to yet). What's more valuable? A catcher who is loved by the pitching staff because of game-calling, pitch-framing, arm strength (but doesn't hit well)...or a catcher that hits well above average and drives in/scores runs for the pitching staff? Of course it's never one or the other, but a blend of both. Still, which trait in isolation leads to more victories?
 

joe dokes

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Patience. He may get there when the Sox have a guy with whom they can replace him well at leadoff. For example, the guy we compare him with more and more on this board, Andrew McCutchen, was strictly a leadoff hitter in his rookie year (2009). His second and third years, they had him split between leadoff and other high places in the order. Fourth year, he took over the third spot for good. After Ellsbury left and until Mookie started playing a lot, we struggled at leadoff. Mookie excels at it by comparison and it's really hard to give up that luxury. I agree, long term, he's the 20+ HR (and plenty of other XBH) 90-100+ RBI type guy you want hitting third.

I'd be happy with Nomar's rookie year.735 PA's from the leadoff spot.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Patience. He may get there when the Sox have a guy with whom they can replace him well at leadoff. For example, the guy we compare him with more and more on this board, Andrew McCutchen, was strictly a leadoff hitter in his rookie year (2009). His second and third years, they had him split between leadoff and other high places in the order. Fourth year, he took over the third spot for good. After Ellsbury left and until Mookie started playing a lot, we struggled at leadoff. Mookie excels at it by comparison and it's really hard to give up that luxury. I agree, long term, he's the 20+ HR (and plenty of other XBH) 90-100+ RBI type guy you want hitting third.
Didn't The Book's analysis show that the #3 spot is the least important out of the top 5? As best I recall the formula, you want your best offensive performers batting 1, 2 and 4, with an emphasis on OBP in the 1 spot, power in the 4 spot, and balance in the 2 spot. The 5 is your next-best all-around guy, and for the remainder, you want an emphasis on power in the 6 spot, your worst hitter in the 8 spot and a prototypical "tablesetter" type with decent OBP but no power in the 9 spot, with the 3 and 7 holes as wild cards.

Am I remembering this right? If so, then a saber-optimized Red Sox lineup would be pretty close to what we saw yesterday, except that you'd probably flip JBJ and Holt, and might also flip Betts and Pedroia (except we know Pedroia doesn't like to bat leadoff, so probably not). If (as seems quite possible) Pedroia underperforms his projections and JBJ overperforms his, then eventually you might wind up with something like:

Betts
JBJ
Bogaerts
Ortiz
Ramirez
Shaw
Pedroia
Swihart
Holt
 

In my lifetime

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In what book, the book of bad ideas maybe, does batting JBJ in the 2 hole, while dropping Pedey to 7 make any sense whatsoever?
 

Savin Hillbilly

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In what book, the book of bad ideas maybe, does batting JBJ in the 2 hole, while dropping Pedey to 7 make any sense whatsoever?
I didn't say I'd make that move now. I'm just suggesting that JBJ may be getting better as a hitter, while Pedroia probably is not. If, come July, JBJ is slashing .270/.350/.440 and Pedroia is at .270/.330/.400, would you still call that move a bad idea? This is hypothetical, of course, and probably overoptimistic re JBJ. I was just using it as an example of how an order based on those ideas might evolve with player performance. Sorry to ruffle your Pedey-for-President feathers.
 

Rasputin

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Yes, I believe Hanigan will be DFA when Vazquez is ready. My argument is that Swihart will continue to be the starter and Vazquez will assume Hanigan's role as backup.
DFAing Hanigan makes no sense whatsoever. I think it's much more likely that he gets traded at the deadline and Vazquez brought up then.
 

Al Zarilla

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Didn't The Book's analysis show that the #3 spot is the least important out of the top 5? As best I recall the formula, you want your best offensive performers batting 1, 2 and 4, with an emphasis on OBP in the 1 spot, power in the 4 spot, and balance in the 2 spot. The 5 is your next-best all-around guy, and for the remainder, you want an emphasis on power in the 6 spot, your worst hitter in the 8 spot and a prototypical "tablesetter" type with decent OBP but no power in the 9 spot, with the 3 and 7 holes as wild cards.

Am I remembering this right? If so, then a saber-optimized Red Sox lineup would be pretty close to what we saw yesterday, except that you'd probably flip JBJ and Holt, and might also flip Betts and Pedroia (except we know Pedroia doesn't like to bat leadoff, so probably not). If (as seems quite possible) Pedroia underperforms his projections and JBJ overperforms his, then eventually you might wind up with something like:

Betts
JBJ
Bogaerts
Ortiz
Ramirez
Shaw
Pedroia
Swihart
Holt
Yes, I keep reading about the new math reassigning importance weight to all the spots in the batting order. Haven't read the book though. MLB managers aren't paying attention, at least yet, as I keep seeing the M. Cabreras, Cano's, Longorias, Posey's, Goldshmidts, Brauns, Hollidays of the world hitting third so far this year. WHOA, the Pirates have had McCutchen hitting second, at least in the first two games of the season, Donaldson with the Jays too. Of course, Toronto is so loaded, the temptation might just be too big to not put a stud in the 2-hole.

The old saw that your second hitter must be a guy who can hit behind the runner and bunt, but not necessarily do much of anything else well with a bat might be gone though.

Edit, not Ortiz 3rd.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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In what book, the book of bad ideas maybe, does batting JBJ in the 2 hole, while dropping Pedey to 7 make any sense whatsoever?
The book where JBJ resumes his insane Barry Bonds impersonation from last August?

Don't get yourself worked up about it. Swihart and JBJ will almost certainly be left alone this season to continue their benevolent work setting the table for Mookie's subsequent plate appearances, without any undue fluffering of egos.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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DFAing Hanigan makes no sense whatsoever. I think it's much more likely that he gets traded at the deadline and Vazquez brought up then.
Perhaps I'm the only one expecting this, but I'm fully expecting Vazquez to be shipped out as part of a deal for another starter or a more-everyday-than-Brock-Holt LF. Not saying it is a good idea, just what I'm loosely predicting.
 
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Sprowl

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Perhaps I'm the only one expecting this, but I'm fully expecting Vazquez to be shipped out as part of a deal for another starter or a more-everyday-than-Brock-Holt LF. Not saying it is a good idea, just what I'm loosely predicting.
I think that Vazquez, like Holt, is worth more to the Red Sox than another team, hence neither one of them is a likely trade chip. The most important consideration is that it is not yet clear that Vazquez can consistently hit major league pitching. In 2014 he was vulnerable to fastballs up and in, and I doubt that weakness will have gone away during a year's inaction. The only thing he can do better than average at the plate is to protect the outside edge and shoot the ball to the opposite field. It is not clear yet why another team should regard him as an everyday catcher rather than a backup catcher and defensive replacement -- and backup catcher coming off a yearlong injury is not exactly an enticing trade target. At the very least, Vazquez needs two more months to show that he has recovered from TJ surgery and did not leave his best-in-class throwing arm on the operating room table.
 

geoduck no quahog

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There's one approach that makes logical sense, but not baseball sense. Use your defensive ace against premier pitching and your offensive catcher against shitty pitching. Defensive catcher helps his team's pitcher hold down the number of hits, giving the offense a somewhat better chance of beating the other guy. Offensive catcher doesn't need to bring as much to the table against shittier pitchers.

Maybe that makes no sense at all, since it could work just the opposite. Still, I think it's better than the personal catcher approach (other than for a knuckleballer).

I'm in a quandary because I think the best idea is a Vazquez/Swihart tandem until/unless someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.
 

Rasputin

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Perhaps I'm the only one expecting this, but I'm fully expecting Vazquez to be shipped out as part of a deal for another starter or a more-everyday-than-Brock-Holt LF. Not saying it is a good idea, just what I'm loosely predicting.
Wait, Vazquez shipped out?

Why?
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Wait, Vazquez shipped out?

Why?
My feeling is that if the offense or pitching is lagging, Dombrowski won't hesitate to move youngsters for immediate help assuming they are in contention and in a spot where an extra win or two can make a difference. And in such a scenario, I would imagine that Swihart would be performing well enough on both sides of the ball that it would be less painful to the big club to move someone still recovering in Pawtucket. I don't really see Hanigan having much value at all, and I don't think they'd trade him for a warm body just to make room for Vazquez if Vazquez can bring back something useful. Again, I'm not saying I'm necessarily in favor of it or opposed to it (how could you be either absent context?), just that it seems more plausible to me than trading one of the other two or keeping all three.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Look at the list of FA's: 2017

Limiting it to that pool, does anyone see potential standouts that are on non-contending teams and that might help put the Red Sox over the top at the deadline?

I don't see anything on that particular list that requires Swihart, unless some very good teams have shit the brick come July (and even then...)
 

derekson

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Didn't The Book's analysis show that the #3 spot is the least important out of the top 5? As best I recall the formula, you want your best offensive performers batting 1, 2 and 4, with an emphasis on OBP in the 1 spot, power in the 4 spot, and balance in the 2 spot. The 5 is your next-best all-around guy, and for the remainder, you want an emphasis on power in the 6 spot, your worst hitter in the 8 spot and a prototypical "tablesetter" type with decent OBP but no power in the 9 spot, with the 3 and 7 holes as wild cards.

Am I remembering this right? If so, then a saber-optimized Red Sox lineup would be pretty close to what we saw yesterday, except that you'd probably flip JBJ and Holt, and might also flip Betts and Pedroia (except we know Pedroia doesn't like to bat leadoff, so probably not). If (as seems quite possible) Pedroia underperforms his projections and JBJ overperforms his, then eventually you might wind up with something like:

Betts
JBJ
Bogaerts
Ortiz
Ramirez
Shaw
Pedroia
Swihart
Holt
You're a bit off, in that you're supposed to bat your best hitter 2nd, and low OBP high power 3rd. A realistic lineup that went with the principles of the Book would be something like:

Pedroia
Betts
Ramirez
Ortiz
Bogaerts
Shaw
Swihart
Bradley
Holt
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Batting order arguments aside, the biggest problem in the current 25-man roster is keeping Castillo as the last bench player instead of Marrero, who could at least cover either middle infield position defensively.

When two of the three defensive positions most at risk of suffering a takeout slide injury are backed up only by your starting LF, that's a fairly serious flaw. And not one with a corresponding benefit outweighing it.
 

Rovin Romine

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Batting order arguments aside, the biggest problem in the current 25-man roster is keeping Castillo as the last bench player instead of Marrero, who could at least cover either middle infield position defensively.

When two of the three defensive positions most at risk of suffering a takeout slide injury are backed up only by your starting LF, that's a fairly serious flaw. And not one with a corresponding benefit outweighing it.
1) How often does this happen?
2) What's the breakdown for this exact thing resulting in a loss v. the opportunity to win games through PH v. the risk of losing the PH games due to inadequate defense?

Point being that while I think you're completely right to note the defensive shortcomings, you're looking at a scenario where a) Holt is suddenly unavailable to due injury/being removed, b) no stopgap exists. SS is the only spot I can think of where that might apply - say Holt is PH for, and Xander gets injured later on in the same game. The odds of that have to be low, right? If it did happen, I suppose Mookie could cover 2b in an emergency, with Pedroia shifting to SS. If Holt gets injured, Marrero would both be on the first plane out.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Look at the list of FA's: 2017

Limiting it to that pool, does anyone see potential standouts that are on non-contending teams and that might help put the Red Sox over the top at the deadline?

I don't see anything on that particular list that requires Swihart, unless some very good teams have shit the brick come July (and even then...)
I mean, it's been two games. It's hard to know what their needs are going to be at this point. If it's starting pitching, then no, nobody on that list looks all that appealing unless the Nats crater. If the Red Sox need outfield help, though, then Josh Reddick would probably fit in pretty nicely. Not sure if he'd cost someone on the level of Swihart, though. Who knows what Billy Beane wants?
 

phenweigh

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With the emphasis on giving playing time to the guys that give the team the best chance to win, I'm wondering what happens if Steven Wright has clearly pitched better than some of the other starters when Eduardo is ready to rejoin the rotation. Would they demote Porcello or Buchholz to the pen?
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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1) How often does this happen?
2) What's the breakdown for this exact thing resulting in a loss v. the opportunity to win games through PH v. the risk of losing the PH games due to inadequate defense?
Calculating the breakdown for this exact thing resulting in a loss versus the opportunity to win games through PH versus the risk of losing the PH games due to inadequate defense can probably most easily be done by comparing OBP stats, which should provide approximate values with which to calculate who should hit for whom and when. because if one person doesn't make an out the other one would be expected to, the "opportunity to win games" through the PH is met as a condition.

3-Year Splits vs. LHP
1. .362 Holt
2. .353 Shaw
3. .344 Young
4. .343 Castillo
5. .320 Bradley
6. .272 Sandoval
7. .150 Marrero

3-Year Splits vs. RHP
1. .342 Sandoval
2. .333 Marrero
3. .325 Holt
4. .319 Shaw
5. .283 Castillo
6. .275 Bradley
7. .269 Young

Assuming these splits are significant and real -- which is a big assumption I'm not willing to make due to SSS issues for any of these players except Chris Young, Pablo Sandoval, and perhaps Brock Holt -- you could plot out how much more likely a PH candidate would be to get on base than the starter, as an end result of the PH opportunity.

1. Sandoval should get on base vs. RHP about 1 time more per 16 PA than Young (0.073 OBP difference)
2. Young should get on base vs. LHP about 1 time more per 16 PA than Sandoval (0.072 OBP difference)
3. Sandoval should get on base vs. RHP about 1 time more per 59 PA than Holt (0.017 OBP difference)

The rest of the time, there's either not enough data to make a statistically-relevant decision, or there's no clear benefit to using a PH whatsoever.

So Farrell's use of Sandoval to PH for Young in the 8th inning on Wednesday was justified. That's fine -- based on the last three years, these guys are actually excellent offensive complements to each other on the bench. And also not unexpectedly, doing so wasn't a game-changer.

However, the issue isn't using either of these two guys off the bench -- based on their contracts, Sandoval and Young are going to be on the team all season. The issue is keeping Castillo over Marrero as the last guy on the bench. And that problem isn't so easily solved by quantification.

The sample-size of plate appearances is too small to make a statistically-informed decision about whether ever to PH Castillo for Bradley. And even more problematic is this aspect of that issue -- there's no circumstance where a LHRP is likely to be brought in to face Bradley as the first batter, because he'll be batting 9th after the catcher and followed by 3 RHH. Realistically, an opposing manager will either bring in the LHRP to face Ortiz (due to his established splits and undeniable power vs. RHP), or to face Shaw (who is the first LHH in a stacking sequence). Otherwise that card will stay in the hand.

The risk of running out of infielders, though, is present on every pop-up to short left.
 

geoduck no quahog

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However, the issue isn't using either of these two guys off the bench -- based on their contracts, Sandoval and Young are going to be on the team all season. The issue is keeping Castillo over Marrero as the last guy on the bench. And that problem isn't so easily solved by quantification.
That's the most sober argument for sending Castillo to Pawtucket that I've read.

How many AL teams carry 5 bona fide outfielders? It's the most common, but I'm not sure that it means anything at all, what other teams do. I've now noted backups that can also play 2B, 3B, SS in italics. The White Sox, A's and Rays appear to be outliers.

Let's look at the AL depth charts provided by MLB.com

4 Outfielders:
Angels (Gentry)
Jays (Carrera)
Royals (Fuentes)

5 Outfielders:
Astros (Marisnick, Tucker)
Indians (Cowgill, Ramirez)
Mariners (Gutierrez, Cruz)
Rangers (Rua, Ruggiano)
Twins (Arcia, Santana)
Yankees (Hicks, Ackley)

6 Outfielders:
Orioles (Reimold, Flaherty, Kim)
Red Sox (Including Shaw, Castillo, Young)
Tigers (Aviles, Collins, Romine)
White Sox (Shuck, Sands, Garcia)

7 Outfielders:
A's (Canha, Coghlan, Crisp, Lambo)
Rays (Dickerson, Pearce, Guyer, Morrison)

I'll come back and insert backup names since that may provide more information (e.g., outfielders that can also play the infield)
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Batting order arguments aside, the biggest problem in the current 25-man roster is keeping Castillo as the last bench player instead of Marrero, who could at least cover either middle infield position defensively.

When two of the three defensive positions most at risk of suffering a takeout slide injury are backed up only by your starting LF, that's a fairly serious flaw. And not one with a corresponding benefit outweighing it.
I doubt is it that serious when Marrero can be up the following day should this be the case. Like most 25th men, neither player provides a role on this team right now aside from emergency injury or extra inning replacement (where Brock could slide down there). With "all else being equal" there is the political side of Castillo having the big contract where you don't need to deal with the backlash from his agent, the up and coming Roc Nation, while preserving that relationship as best as possible for as long as possible until the Sox can use the "we want him to get at-bats" party line.
 

Rovin Romine

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The risk of running out of infielders, though, is present on every pop-up to short left.
I'm not disagreeing with your analysis, and perhaps Marrero is better rotting on the MLB bench while Castillo gets ABs in AAA.

Anyway, I do think you're in a bit of a swamp with the "no IF" scenarios, at least as far as they relate to PH. I agree it's a real risk, but I still think it's not a very large one.

First, there's the mutual collision scenario you floated where a couple of key guys hit each other so severely both can't continue in the game. That happens what, once a year on average, or less? I mean, it's a bad year if it happens once, and freakish if it happens twice. But to create an IF shortage the collision has to be Holt/Xander mutually injured, or Holt/Pedroia mutually injured. If one can continue, the injury does not matter, given that an uninjured Holt moves to the IF, or Castillo replaces Holt. If both are injured Mookie comes to the IF, and Castillo gets in the game. If it's another IF and Holt, Ortiz can do a couple of innings at first, etc. The point is, someone would continue.

Anyway, the mutual injury collision game isn't a guaranteed loss, just because a collision occurs at some point during the game. But chalk it up as a loss if you like. But assume replacements arrive in time for the next game. (Unless we're talking about a mutual collision in the first game of a double header on the west coast.)

Second, there's the "Holt unavailable due to any kind of injury/PH, *and* one of Xander/Pedroia injured during that game" scenario. I mean, we're not talking about one of them being on the DL - we'd get a replacement. We're talking about the chance of mutual injury, or Farrell messing up the PH (far more likely). To prevent that, the rule should be that Farrell should never PH for Holt until the 9th.

In any event, the same swaps as above apply. Again, not an automatic forfeit, but call it a loss if you like. That might happen, on average once a year? Twice?

So, it's a real risk, but not one that's going to happen with any kind of frequency. Also the first time it happens, I think you'd see a roster correction made to address it. Or the roster will be changed anyway due to injury, trade, etc.

We shouldn't be talking about discontinuing offensive platoon use over, at worst, 2-3 freakish injury driven losses.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Having watched the first week of games, something's teasing me.

Hanley is reverting back to a great line drive hitter with speed. I think that's real, not just a small sample conclusion. I can't help but think he'd be so much better positioned in front of Ortiz instead of behind him - if for the speed factor alone. I understand Bogaerts being there and seeing better pitches hitting in front of Ortiz, but that's a lot of pressure to get on base.

Trouble is, there's no right handed power hitter to put behind Ortiz. Perhaps LHH Shaw may prove capable since he appears immune to splits so far in his short career.

That would, I guess, put Bogaerts, Holt/Young/Castillo, Swihart and Bradley in the 6-9 slots.

Still have 3 RHH lining up 1-3, but that doesn't seem to hurt the Blue Jays.
 

phenweigh

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According to transactions on ESPN.com, the Red Sox placed 3B Pablo Sandoval on the 15-day DL, retroactive to April 11 and selected the contract of INF Josh Rutledge from Pawtucket (IL). Nothing about Rusney. I wonder if his option to AAA isn't official. I guess the Sox have all day to think about it.
 

Rasputin

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According to transactions on ESPN.com, the Red Sox placed 3B Pablo Sandoval on the 15-day DL, retroactive to April 11 and selected the contract of INF Josh Rutledge from Pawtucket (IL). Nothing about Rusney. I wonder if his option to AAA isn't official. I guess the Sox have all day to think about it.
They're probably just holding off on the paperwork until just before the game tomorrow in case something untoward happens.
 

E5 Yaz

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Lose Remerswaal

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Hembree did good but the 'pen is cooked. His reward will probably be being sent down so they can get a (hopefully) rested relief arm to Fenway.

I wonder if Kelly is a candidate for the 60 day so they can expand their options?
 

Rasputin

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Am I the only one that would rather have Marco Hernandez than Josh Rutledge?

It kinda sucks DFAing Escobar. The guy never really had a chance to do anything.

I assume Cuevas is only here until Kelly's next scheduled start.
 

Cumberland Blues

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Escobar had more walks than K's in his last 85 IP and his K rate had plummeted to <4 per 9. What exactly do you think he had a chance to do?
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yeah, Escobar is no loss. May not even be claimed. I would rather have Hernandez than Rutledge, too, but I assume that decision was options- related.
 

phenweigh

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Yeah, Escobar is no loss. May not even be claimed. I would rather have Hernandez than Rutledge, too, but I assume that decision was options- related.
I assume it was not options related, as unless I misunderstand, the fact they have both been called up means the Sox are using one of their options for each player this year. Multiple call-ups and demotions in the same season is no different than a single call-up or demotion.

I assume they like Rutledge as a hitter more than Hernandez, and that outweighs any difference in what they think about their defense.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I assume it was not options related, as unless I misunderstand, the fact they have both been called up means the Sox are using one of their options for each player this year. Multiple call-ups and demotions in the same season is no different than a single call-up or demotion.

I assume they like Rutledge as a hitter more than Hernandez, and that outweighs any difference in what they think about their defense.
I figured Rutledge was out of options.