soxhop411 said:He is speaking in front of a Red Sox backdrop. You would think they would put up a generic MLB one.
Why would they carry around a generic MLB backdrop?
soxhop411 said:He is speaking in front of a Red Sox backdrop. You would think they would put up a generic MLB one.
steveluck7 said:FWIW, that wasn't Passan's tweet. It was linked on the first page of this thread. it was somebody named Scott Newport tweeting at Jeff Passan
If this was simply the manifestation of rogue Cardinals analysts, $50,000-a-year guys rummaging through another team’s database for giggles, it’s more a black eye for the Cardinals than a gut shot. Of course, that presupposes that the low-level staffers not only stole the information from the Astros but didn’t reveal the hack to anybody else in the organization. Which is possible, yes, if not altogether likely.
The nightmare for the Cardinals would be if knowledge of the information reached higher levels. The second anybody in any position of power knew of the breach and did not report it to Major League Baseball or authorities, he or she not only would be helping cover up a crime but implicitly endorsing it by continuing to employ those under investigation, which the Cardinals still do.
Should the allegations prove true and the brainchild of a higher-up official, the fallout would be immense. The idea of the Astros falling victim to a Cardinals-sanctioned skunkworks projectwould make Spygate look like an innocent home video, and MLB would have no choice but to hammer the organization with a penalty unlike any before seen.
Right. Either a higher level official ordered this or turned their heads and allowed it to happen. Either way, if any high level FO people even knew about it they are screwed. This isn't deflating footballs or taping signals. This could be jail time.CaptainLaddie said:I have to think if this was just a few low-level guys making $50k that this wouldn't have been an 11-months-so-far investigation.
Seels said:I'd love to be outraged by this but have no conceivable idea what the advantage to this would possibly be. Did the Cardinals need help beating the Astros ?
Seels said:I'd love to be outraged by this but have no conceivable idea what the advantage to this would possibly be. Did the Cardinals need help beating the Astros ?
I'm not sure any amount of hacking is going to give a team as many high end picks as the Astros have had in recent years. This is kind of ilke the Rays of 6-7 years ago...Norm Siebern said:
The Astros have a remarkable amount of talent in their minor league system, and as is seen this year they are excellent talent evaluators. That anyone would want to tap into that abiliy makes a lot of sense. I wish the Red Sox could evaluate young talent as well as the Astros.
Seels said:I'm not sure any amount of hacking is going to give a team as many high end picks as the Astros have had in recent years. This is kind of ilke the Rays of 6-7 years ago...
Seels said:I'd love to be outraged by this but have no conceivable idea what the advantage to this would possibly be. Did the Cardinals need help beating the Astros ?
caminante11 said:Isn't this the same Astros that had their internal messages about players leaked a while back?
Ed Hillel said:
I'm listening on ESPN now, and apparently this is exactly what started the investigation. The Astros thought it was some hacking group, but it turns out it was the Cardinals. Oops.
Norm Siebern said:
The Astros have a remarkable amount of talent in their minor league system, and as is seen this year they are excellent talent evaluators. That anyone would want to tap into that abiliy makes a lot of sense. I wish the Red Sox could evaluate young talent as well as the Astros.
Seels said:I'm not sure any amount of hacking is going to give a team as many high end picks as the Astros have had in recent years. This is kind of ilke the Rays of 6-7 years ago...
Laser Show said:Finally some delicious Cardinals schadenfreude
If the Cardinals had access to the Astros’ valuation system, they could obviously do an immense amount to undermine them, from drafting players they desire to undercutting them in trade deals to knowing their game plans ahead of time when the two teams faced off. In terms of corporate espionage, it’s tantamount to stealing the secret formula for Coke. In terms of professional sports, it makes a deflated football look like jaywalking.
Seels said:I'd love to be outraged by this but have no conceivable idea what the advantage to this would possibly be. Did the Cardinals need help beating the Astros ?
Gunfighter 09 said:Assuming the worst case is true, what is a fair punishment for the franchise that doesn't start a fight with the union?
- Losing an entire draft + additional premium round picks? The picks would have to be redistributed to other teams to ensure the same number of players are drafted.
-A gigantic ($10Mish) fine for the franchise?
-Some sort of salary cap, with the fine amount getting distributed to the Union?
-A postseason ban?
-Does Houston rate a greater share of the punishment (like draft picks) since they were the most direct victims (though not the only victims) of this nonsense?
Frankly, MLB could levee all five of these penalties, and, once again, assuming worst case, I would think it was reasonable.
I don't know, I mean it's hacking. I can see why it's important to do something about it...but...like the stuff on the field still needs to happen.NortheasternPJ said:
What if the Astros were a top end team, would that change your opinion or is it a joke because it's the Astros?
If the Yankees were found to be breaking into Fenway (or an actual successful team's offices) and stealing all their records, would you be more or less offended?
Outside of rigging games through officials or blowing them intentionally, I'm not sure what is a worse offense in sports than this.
soxhop411 said:“@phampel: Bob Costas tells me outcome of #STLCardinals hacking scandal will be ”relatively benign“ & w/out lasting negative consequences. More to come”
natpastime162 said:They had a master list of every password he used during his 8 years with the Cardinals. That could be 1-3 passwords or 400. I guess I'm not paranoid enough if this is how I should always act when creating new passwords. I still try to use different alphanumeric and special character passwords each time (probably some overlap), but it looks more and more like password security is an illusion. Just cold comfort to help people sleep at night.
Seels said:I don't know, I mean it's hacking. I can see why it's important to do something about it...but...like the stuff on the field still needs to happen.
Don't get me wrong I'll enjoy seeing an organization that harbored Tony Larussa eat some shit, but I just have some reservations about the actual on field effect of this. The Astros of this era were going to be shitty either way, same with the Cardinals.
DrewDawg said:The same Cardinals that we hear about every postseason that are the best franchise, with the greatest fans ever? Those Cardinals?
ivanvamp said:I honestly don't think it will end up creating a furor. I think any media or national venting and rage will be directed at the front office and ownership, and I don't think anyone really will say that somehow Michael Wacha isn't as good as he really is because of these hacks.
soxhop411 said:“@phampel: Bob Costas tells me outcome of #STLCardinals hacking scandal will be ”relatively benign“ & w/out lasting negative consequences. More to come”
Any Cardinals employee involved in the alleged hacking could up to five years imprisonment, along with monetary fines potentially reaching into the hundreds of thousands of dollars per offense. Given the fact that the alleged super genius hackers did so in their own house, with a very traceable IP address, they could be looking at enormous sentences.
Bigpupp said:How many offenses would they be looking at facing? If they only logged in once, would they be looking at one offense or one for each page (or file) they accessed?
Also, if they were able to gain access to medical records, could they be also looking at HIPPA violations from this?
https://twitter.com/DSzymborski/status/610830387292581890Remagellan said:My new favorite tweet on this, forwarded from my friend who is a Cards fan:
"the Cardinals hacked into the Phillies system first. But all they found was a game of solitaire."
The clubs are separate entities. So, no different from McDougal's "hacking" (if you can call it that) into McDonald's proprietary recipe database.finnVT said:Naive legal question.... given MLB's organizational structure, anti-trust exemption, etc, would this really be treated like corporate espionage, or is the better analogy one branch of a company hacking another (within the same company, i.e., MLB)?
Bigpupp said:How many offenses would they be looking at facing? If they only logged in once, would they be looking at one offense or one for each page (or file) they accessed?
Also, if they were able to gain access to medical records, could they be also looking at HIPPA violations from this?
"We'd like to think that what the Cardinals did is worse than the Patriots,that it compromised the integrity of the game. But did it? Does information in a computer affect the outcome of a baseball game? Did the Cardinals win games because of it? Who knows. One former AL East GM said that he "doesn't think so.""Dick Pole Upside said:How long before Cafardo downplays this because it's just, you know, data. Stuff is useless. Baseball is evaluated with the eyes, not with Excel spreadsheets.
But if it gave the Cards an advantage on defensive shifts... BRING DOWN THE HAMMER OF THOR!
Laser Show said:"We'd like to think that what the Cardinals did is worse than the Patriots,that it compromised the integrity of the game. But did it? Does information in a computer affect the outcome of a baseball game? Did the Cardinals win games because of it? Who knows. One former AL East GM said that he "doesn't think so.""
Laser Show said:"We'd like to think that what the Cardinals did is worse than the Patriots,that it compromised the integrity of the game. But did it? Does information in a computer affect the outcome of a baseball game? Did the Cardinals win games because of it? Who knows. One former AL East GM said while frantically deleting emails that he "doesn't think so.""
They won't and they already haven't. Costas is a good example of the reaction. It'll be a meh and moving on.johnmd20 said:Yeah, this is a huge story and it's a major scandal, involving the FBI. The media is going to go crazy on this one.
DrewDawg said:
This is the enlightened thinking running front offices today.
Wacha was drafted in 2012. Luhnow left for Houston in Dec, 2011. This obviously doesn't impact Wacha's own legacy, but what if the Cardinals drafted him based on a scouting report they pulled from the Astros db? You don't think that would affect the perception of the Cards's success based on their ability to identify talent?ivanvamp said:I honestly don't think it will end up creating a furor. I think any media or national venting and rage will be directed at the front office and ownership, and I don't think anyone really will say that somehow Michael Wacha isn't as good as he really is because of these hacks.