And thanks to the miraculous healing powers of a contract year Theo Ratliff's insurance paid contract lost all its value as he played his way to one more deal. Poor Kev couldn't catch a break.
The Celtics Offseason
- Thread starter kazuneko
- Start date
I know there are rumors of a Charlotte offer, and it’s only July 2nd, but at what point does it become possible that he accepts the qualifying offer of 1/$8.4M?
Charlotte is limited to the MLE, correct?
I guess at a certain point the qualifying offer is possible, but he's earned $11.8M in his career, pretax. That's like $7M post tax and fees. Locking in just $8.4M seems borderline irresponsible.
Maybe he does 3/37 somewhere, with a player option?
As I understand it, Charlotte is limited to the $12.4M nontaxpayer MLE. But if their interest does not materialize, I wonder at point Grant takes the qualifying offer and plans to hit the market as unrestricted free agent next offseason. Apparently, he is open to returning and was working out at the team facility along with Jordan Walsh.
Grant's free agency is Exhibit A on why Boston isn't getting top-notch FA (JRich) on vet minimums.
It's really tough to get minutes on this team (HRB is nodding his head).
Maybe it was injury-driven, but Grant racked up quite a few DNP-CDs this season.
I know CJM is a Karate Man, but Grant should punch him in the nutz the next time they cross paths
It's really tough to get minutes on this team (HRB is nodding his head).
Maybe it was injury-driven, but Grant racked up quite a few DNP-CDs this season.
I know CJM is a Karate Man, but Grant should punch him in the nutz the next time they cross paths
Last edited:
It's just so hard for me to see a guy taking only $8.4M guaranteed when $35M plus guaranteed is available, he's only made $11.8M in his career, and he just bet on himself and lost.
Celtics suppposedly offered him 4/$50 pre-season (which some of us said he’d regret not taking). What do we think their offer is now? Not sure they wouldn’t come close to that again, and still think he’d be wise to take it no matter what theory he has on why he’s worth more.
I think one of the teams with an MLE left will make him the full 4/50 on the 5th (no reason to give an offer sheet before the 5th since it can't be signed and the clock can't start until then).
that's a reasonable lowball guess. I expect he'll get the MLE at a minimum & if I was him I'd ask for an option if possible. That contract will be dirt cheap in 2-3 years
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/exceptions/
Nine teams, most likely threats in that group are: CHA, DAL, MEM, PHI
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1675590035893022722?s=20
Keith Smith: 10 of my Top-50 NBA free agents remain available: G. Williams (R) C. Wood PJ Washington (R) K. Oubre Jr. M. Plumlee M. Beasley T. Craig L. Walker IV M. Thybulle (R) A. Dosunmu (R)
Is Thybulle in the plans for Portland?
Keith Smith: 10 of my Top-50 NBA free agents remain available: G. Williams (R) C. Wood PJ Washington (R) K. Oubre Jr. M. Plumlee M. Beasley T. Craig L. Walker IV M. Thybulle (R) A. Dosunmu (R)
Is Thybulle in the plans for Portland?
That's a guy I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole He has some offensive skills, but lacks in every other aspect on court and in the locker room
This Reddit thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/kwgf71/aside_from_keith_bogansvan_horn_are_there_other/ - says that Quentin Richardson was signed solely to facilitate the Bargnani trade.
Not quite the same but Gallinari got the guarnteed portion of his contract bumped from $5M to $11M in the Murray trade (https://theathletic.com/3391534/2022/06/29/dejounte-murray-trade-hawks-spurs-contract/) and
Chris Paul got an extra $10M guaranteed in the Beal trade (https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/chris-paul-guaranteed-money-trade-wizards/616516).
He's averaged an efficient 18 points and 9 rebounds since 2020, yet he's likely to be on his 8th team in 8 years. Whatever the opposite of intangibles are, he's got it.
It's his allergy to defensive schemes. He overcomes some mistakes with his length and athleticism but it's his lack of effort/caring and lack of focus/understanding that makes his teams run from him. Two years ago in Houston was legit embarassing at times.
Marc Spears said Tatum was recruiting Dame a couple of days ago, too.
View: https://twitter.com/BrianTRobb/status/1675855517011398657?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/BrianTRobb/status/1675855517011398657?s=20
Last edited:
If the Celtics were able to bring Dame in for a package that was headlined by Williams, Brogdon, and draft picks, I'd say get the duckboats ready.
I really don't want to lose Brown tho, which I imagine it would take. I feel like while a slight upgrade, it would expose us elsewhere.
From a salary perspective I cant figure out how to make Williams and Brogdon even work without including Horford, which obviously cant happen if you are including Williams.
Could you include Grant Williams as part of a sign and trade in that scenario? Is that doable?
I really don't want to lose Brown tho, which I imagine it would take. I feel like while a slight upgrade, it would expose us elsewhere.
From a salary perspective I cant figure out how to make Williams and Brogdon even work without including Horford, which obviously cant happen if you are including Williams.
Could you include Grant Williams as part of a sign and trade in that scenario? Is that doable?
He’d be foolish not to. I’m guessing he views Lillard similarly to Durant, an elite player that you have to investigate because they don’t come around often. The Smart trade is looking better right not with that extra first to dangle along with our own. Between potentially Jaylen, Rob, White, Brogdon, we have a lot of ways to make this work. Real question is who else is making serious plays and what they’re offering.
It would take a lot of picks to make this even mildly attractive to PDX, I think. Good for Brad for kicking the tires, but I imagine he's being told it'll take Jaylen.
Parting with White in a Dame trade would be pretty shortsighted IMO. Anyone else, sure... but the Blazers aren't going to deal without either Brown or White, you'd think.
I was wondering if the following makes sense:
Lillard to Celtics
Jaylen to Spurs
Boatload of Spurs picks/players to Portland
Celtics get their closer. Spurs get a young star to pair with Wemby, a situation that Jaylen might be cool with. Portland gets their pick bonanza.
Derrick White is an excellent player. You don't hesitate to include him if you are getting a guard back like Dame. And no matter how much we love him, teams view Brown and White completely different. In that Jaylen can be the main piece in a Dame trade, where White is only a part of it
Dame is so much older than White and as far as I know offers nothing on defense. I'm not sure "no hesitation" is the right answer.
If it came down to doing Jaylen, Brogdon, and a couple of picks, versus White/Rob/4 or 5 picks and swaps, which would be the route you would take?
He's 4 years older and he's one of the best offensive talents in the last decade easily.
Now depth... and future cap would be major concerns, but I do think you make that move without thinking twice if it saves you on draft capital.
Dame is really really good, basically across all of the metrics, Dame's only competition for best offensive player in the league the last 3 years is Jokic and maybe Steph, he's that good on that end.
Now, he's a bad defender, but... not Trae bad, or Kemba bad, and not many teams are better set up to help that issue than a Celtics team with 4 excellent defensive frontcourt players (3 once you trade TL)
A lineup of Lillard, Brown, Tatum, Horford, and Porzingis would be......pretty unbelievable. Assuming the four guys (this isn't a problem for Horford) can figure it out in terms of shot distribution. All five guys can shoot. Lillard has so much gravity that you have to really focus on him. You can't leave Horford or Porzingis alone when they're outside. Porzingis gives you a dominant post presence as well. Defensively that's a lot of rim protection. And you finally have an elite ball handler in Lillard. It would be outrageous to put that group on the floor together.
I don't see it happening, but man, we can dream.
I don't see it happening, but man, we can dream.
Jaylen Brown will be making 58 million that same year. it's all crazy money and the team will likely need to move off one of their max guys, but that is a problem for 3 years from now
Any Dame deal is a win now scenario. The follow is absolutely going to be ugly and the cleanup will be expensive. If you are doing this you are all in.
Chris Haynes mentioned the Pels have put in a call... not sure Dame would be happy going there, but that's a team that can really put together great packages for now or future.
I agree. You'd better make sure you win if you do that. Because 2026/2027 is much more likely to be the peak of the Js, not 2023/2024.
And yeah, if you don't win by 2026/27, it won't matter if that's their peak if they've asked for a trade. None of this is easy.
Sometimes in sports, you just have to play a hand and see where the chips fall. There is no guarantee a JT/JB combo ever gets it done just like there is no guarantee that Lillard delivers a title. There's also no guarantee that JT doesn't ask out even with JB here. NBA stars can be fickle and things can change instantly. I think winning a title in Boston and becoming a legend makes it more likely that JT sticks around for the duration and I'd be willing to gamble on a move that I think increases the chance of a title during his current contract.
One thing to consider also.... if you don't win without Dame (and maybe even if you do) far from guaranteed both Brown and Tatum are here in 4 years anyway, neither is under contract that far out yet, and players ask out all the time.
If you can get Dame at a reasonable price, you likely do it, because you can move somebody down the line if you need to for tax purposes, and as long as you keep Tatum you'll always be able to rebuild to something decent.
If you can get Dame at a reasonable price, you likely do it, because you can move somebody down the line if you need to for tax purposes, and as long as you keep Tatum you'll always be able to rebuild to something decent.
Aside from the Dame stuff, the other percolating story here is Jaylen. Is the extension hold up a function of the Dame talks or vice versa? To me, that distinction matters. Like a lot.
Yup. This is truly fascinating. Over the coming days, we could see a Jaylen supermax deal or a trade for Lillard. Everything is fair game until that situation gets resolved.
