I would have no issues giving it to him either. I would rather gamble on MVP upside than anything else. Plus I am stunned he isn't getting more love, since he is home grownehaz said:
The future at 3rd
- Thread starter MakMan44
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Tyrone Biggums said:
I think it's the fact that he's generally thought of as an immature douche, but I'd much rather give him 100+ million than Sandoval, even taking age into consideration. Hanley is a guy who could transition to 1B/DH and still be valuable, Sandoval isn't.
Savin Hillbilly said:
Good stuff -- runs are runs, and it doesn't matter to me too much whether he's putting them up with the bat or keeping them off the board with his glove. He's a switch, so he's a plus for lineup construction and bullpen resistant switch hitting.
In the end, though, I guess I'm not sure that nobody is talking about Headley at 4/70 levels. I'm sure his agent is. It's true that we're not, but by and large whenever I see the words "I would go" on SOSH during hot stove, I prepare myself to be sure the number will be too low. I think someone started with "3/39" in here at one point with regard to Headley, and it almost became lore, even though it's crazy talk. With good players getting signed to extensions before they hit free agency, teams having more money from revenue sharing and sources, and the increase in the luxury tax limit, free agents are simply getting really expensive. In the last two years since his "one good" year, he's averaged about 4 wins a year (4 for fg and 3.75 for bref). Whether it's for the Red Sox or someone else, I think people are going to be pretty surprised at the number. I think he has every right to expect to be paid like a switch who has come off two solid 4 win years, and I reckon he ultimately will get paid just like that.
I assume the answer is no considering his weight and injury history but is there any chance Panda takes one of the signature Red Sox 3 year overpay contracts? He'll only be 31 when he hits free agency again. It's gamble for him and he would have to stay motivated. My fear with him-like many others-is he will lose his conditioning motivation with 6 years of guaranteed money.
Only if teams (imho correctly) decide that the risk factors around Sandoval warrant less years even if it means a higher AAV. That said, it likely tilts the odds toward Panda staying in San Francisco.SoxinSeattle said:
I will be shocked if Boston gives him a six year deal at ~18-20mm per. They essentially let fan favorite Jon Lester go because they didn't want to be tied to a long term contract for an over thirty pitcher even if he had elite talent. Why would they do so for a even more flawed position player with a history of conditioning issues?
Nick Cafardo @nickcafardo 5m5 minutes agoPhoenix, AZ
Pablo Sandoval will visit Boston early next week.
Pablo Sandoval will visit Boston early next week.
I don't see a need to spend big money on third base, when the team desperately needs two starting pitchers who are likely to throw at least 180 good innings in 2015.
I'd look at how much it would cost to sign Kang or Lowrie, or maybe trade for Valbuena or Murphy, or even a Casey McGehee. Get someone who can probably do a decent job there for a year or two, and you go from horrible to average there, which is a big improvement. Save the big money for the top of the rotation pitchers this team needs so badly.
Cherington has talked about the need for a big LH bat, and sure that would be great, but that is not the biggest need for this coming season. Starting pitchers are the biggest need, and it isn't even close. And they are going to be costly to acquire.
I'd look at how much it would cost to sign Kang or Lowrie, or maybe trade for Valbuena or Murphy, or even a Casey McGehee. Get someone who can probably do a decent job there for a year or two, and you go from horrible to average there, which is a big improvement. Save the big money for the top of the rotation pitchers this team needs so badly.
Cherington has talked about the need for a big LH bat, and sure that would be great, but that is not the biggest need for this coming season. Starting pitchers are the biggest need, and it isn't even close. And they are going to be costly to acquire.
They're also not likely to sign any time soon. 3rd base absolutely is an area of need, and as someone pointed out earlier, the market for them is pretty barren for the next couple seasons. Sure, going stopgap than Garin is cheaper but it's likely more risky than spending the money on Pablo or Headley. I don't disagree that SP is probably the more important than 3rd but that's why I said if they want Pablo they should get it done ASAP.
I see Sandoval as the offensive replacement that allows them to move Cespedes for a starter. They provide similar offensive production, and Panda plays the more desirable position.
I dont think the FO would knowingly make the commitment of signing Sandoval in place of one of the two quality starters that they desperately need. They have enough room to sign Sandoval along with Lester/shields and then flip cespedes+ for that 2nd starter (Latos, cashner, samardzija, etc.)
I dont think the FO would knowingly make the commitment of signing Sandoval in place of one of the two quality starters that they desperately need. They have enough room to sign Sandoval along with Lester/shields and then flip cespedes+ for that 2nd starter (Latos, cashner, samardzija, etc.)
If Sandoval wants to remain in San Francisco and get paid anywhere near what he's looking for, then he HAS to come to Boston next week. There HAS to be a second team with need and $$$ for him to pit against the Giants. I'm not saying there isn't a chance that he signs with the Sox, but I don't think there is a chance that he get's the contract he's looking for from San Francisco without a visit here.
I would imagine the prioritization of 3B stems from the fact that after this off-season there isn't a worthwhile single FA 3B projected to hit the market in the next several years, let alone a worthwhile class of 3Bs to go shopping in. Meanwhile this is a solid SP class, next year looks to be a solid SP class, and the off-season after that looks to have some solid options on the horizon playing for low money teams as well.The Gray Eagle said:
If they walk away with only one SP this year they can bet on all their young arms and fill the gaps should none of them pay off at the end of 2015. If they don't get a 3B now we're all crossing our fingers and hoping Cecchini/WMB/Coyle/Holt can make some magic happen.
The FO is well aware they need some frontline pitching. A power LH bat is also a significant need as Ortiz takes his last laps.
The missing link: http://www.csnne.com/boston-red-sox/mcadam-lester-sandoval-top-sox-free-agent-casting-callAl Zarilla said:
"Unlike the Lester chase, the strong suspicion in the industry is that the battle for Sandoval is already a two-team affair, with the Sox battling the San Francisco Giants, the only team Sandoval has known".
^^^ Yeah. Sandoval looks more like a Bill Mueller bat than a Papi one, even with today's depressed offensive environment.
What about this for an option at 3rd? We can create an all-Cuban all star team! http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yoan-moncada-the-most-fascinating-piece-of-the-offseason/
edit (and second edit for other quote) to include Quote:
Bolding mine. If the Sox think he could be ready with very little time in the minors, they could stick with what they have on the roster now long enough to give him some AAA ABs...
Not sure when he could reasonably be expected to play, though.
edit (and second edit for other quote) to include Quote:
Bolding mine. If the Sox think he could be ready with very little time in the minors, they could stick with what they have on the roster now long enough to give him some AAA ABs...
Not sure when he could reasonably be expected to play, though.
I said some months ago that I would love Sandoval to be our 3B but I acknowledge, at the same time, that it would be some terrible business for Boston (giving what it would reasonably take, money + years)
We have an issue. We do not know when he will be posted. If he is posted before June the sox should and will go after him. If it's after the deadline we have no shot. It would be stupid business not to sign a 3B this offseason in hopes he gets posted. Because what if he does not? We then are f**ckedpokey_reese said:
He's already had a showcase. He will be posted before the deadline. It doesn't take that long.soxhop411 said:
Harry Hooper said:
Does Sandoval qualify as a "power" bat though? I know SF is not a hitter's park, but his last 3 years' worth of Slugging: .447, .417, .415. He finished 12th in MLB among qualified 3b in slugging. Not bad, and certainly a major improvement over what they trotted out this past year, but still. Not really a "power" bat. Overall good hitter. Not really a power bat.
ivanvamp said:
True enough, he's certainly won't be carrying the load, but slugging could rise with enough Wallballs. Sox will need a serious LH power bat (for 1B or DH?) in the post-Ortiz era.
Harry Hooper said:
I wonder if Travis Shaw can be that guy.
Last three years' slugging in the minors:
- 2012: .517 (A+, AA) - 19 hr, 464 ab
- 2013: .394 (AA) - 16 hr, 444 ab
- 2014: .473 (AA, AAA) - 21 hr, 490 ab
He's just 24. Maybe by the time he's 26, he'll be a legitimate MLB left-handed power bat (25 hr type).
Obviously he doesn't solve the 3b issue for 2015 or 2016, but perhaps he ends up replacing Napoli in 2016.
Kiley McDaniel at Fangraphs rated him a 40 FV. SoxProspects have him ranked #19 with a 3 grade. Doesn't sound like anyone is that high on him, especially playing 1B for a team like Boston. McDaniel's blurb:ivanvamp said:
22. Travis Shaw, 1B Video: Shaw has been consistently underrated and has now hit well in AAA, prompting some scout to throw their hands up and say they missed on this guy. There isn’t much raw power to the point that one scout said James Loney is a best case scenario, but Shaw is also passable at third base. Another scout suggested this type of talent won’t get to play much in Boston and is destined to be dealt at the deadline for a role player, then have some solid seasons on a bad club.
Entire article: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/evaluating-the-prospects-boston-red-sox/
He's probably a future A's superstar or something.ivanvamp said:
The only real knock on him has been adjustment time to a new level. He spent parts of 3 years in AA where he piled up the numbers. It's translated a bit to AAA but 24 is getting ripe in Boston.
I bet he gets a chance with an injury or two but ends up being platoon guy elsewhere.
I wouldn't consider that a very fair comp. Loney was a HS draftee with a ton of pedigree who never hit better than a mid-700's OPS except for one season in the PCL when his BA jumped 100 points from his previous numbers. Shaw has had an OPS in the 700's over a season once, when he made the full time jump to AA. I would say that Adam LaRoche is a far better comp. Both were >.900 OPS guys in the low minors before making the jump to AA, both hit a hiccup dropping to the mid-.700's when they made that jump. LaRoche bounced back the following (age 23) season while Shaw struggled, so Shaw repeated and handled it better than LaRoche ever did while LaRoche advanced to AAA for the second half of that season and moved on to the majors. Career mL lines for each to this point:Hee Sox Choi said:
Shaw - .263/.365/.461
LaRoche - .289/.359/.450
Geez, if Shaw can be Adam LaRoche, that's pretty sweet. Even if he ends up being a .265/.345/.440/.785, 20 hr, 80 rbi guy, that's pretty solid LH power in today's game. And for the cost of virtually nothing. I'm sure the Sox are paying close attention.
Cameron ranks Headley #1 on his list of Bargains of the 2015 Free Agent Class. Here's his conclusion:
I’d probably take the under on Steamer’s +3.9 WAR per 600 PA forecast, but expecting +3 WAR with some hope for a bit of a boost isn’t unreasonable at all. I don’t think it’s completely insane to prefer Headley to Sandoval even without factoring cost in, and it seems quite likely that Headley will be the cheaper of the two. If you’re looking for power, you probably want to look elsewhere, but if you’re looking for overall value this winter, Headley might be the best target out there.
I’d probably take the under on Steamer’s +3.9 WAR per 600 PA forecast, but expecting +3 WAR with some hope for a bit of a boost isn’t unreasonable at all. I don’t think it’s completely insane to prefer Headley to Sandoval even without factoring cost in, and it seems quite likely that Headley will be the cheaper of the two. If you’re looking for power, you probably want to look elsewhere, but if you’re looking for overall value this winter, Headley might be the best target out there.
I'm convinced, I'll take the bridge player over a player who I think is using the Sox to up SF's offer besides the idea of committing to the San Fran "Crisco" kid, fat in the can makes me nervous that he'll end up missing more time then Fielder.GRPhilipp said:
Joe Amorosino @joeamorosino · 12m 12 minutes ago
#Panda has landed at Logan Airport. Free agent, Pablo Sandoval @KFP48 in Boston to meet with @RedSox. #7News #SFGiants
Joe Amorosino @joeamorosino · 7m 7 minutes ago
Pablo Sandoval @KFP48 exclusive interview in #Boston coming up on 7News at Six. "Excited to here" w/ agent & brother to meet w/ @RedSox
https://twitter.com/joeamorosino
#Panda has landed at Logan Airport. Free agent, Pablo Sandoval @KFP48 in Boston to meet with @RedSox. #7News #SFGiants
Joe Amorosino @joeamorosino · 7m 7 minutes ago
Pablo Sandoval @KFP48 exclusive interview in #Boston coming up on 7News at Six. "Excited to here" w/ agent & brother to meet w/ @RedSox
https://twitter.com/joeamorosino
what if the Sox offered 6 years 82 mill with playoff and weight bonuses that could take it to 100 mill over 6 ?
If the bonuses aren't met - 13. 666 annually isn't crippling ( very close to the 13 mil aav deals they handed out earlier )
Bonuses are met - 16.66 still not albatross numbers and if Sandoval is achieving bonuses 16.666 mill is pretty good for 3 win high leverage player that is good but far from great.
Biggest sell for Sandoval would be the guaranteed years , dh later on , and Fenway over SF ballpark.....
If the bonuses aren't met - 13. 666 annually isn't crippling ( very close to the 13 mil aav deals they handed out earlier )
Bonuses are met - 16.66 still not albatross numbers and if Sandoval is achieving bonuses 16.666 mill is pretty good for 3 win high leverage player that is good but far from great.
Biggest sell for Sandoval would be the guaranteed years , dh later on , and Fenway over SF ballpark.....
Nick Cafardo @nickcafardo 32s32 seconds ago
The Red Sox will meet with Pablo Sandoval all day Tuesday at Fenway. There's a dinner either tonight or Tuesday night as well.
The Red Sox will meet with Pablo Sandoval all day Tuesday at Fenway. There's a dinner either tonight or Tuesday night as well.
All day? What do they do all day? I mean, is this really required for figuring out whether or not to sign a player, or for a player to sign with a club? I would guess he two or three questions, number one of which is "how much"? What do the Red Sox need to talk to him about for a day? His hopes and dreams? Favorite color? Famous person he'd have dinner with? I would make a terrible baseball executive. I don't understand why this crap takes months. At this moment in time, there is a number at which the team would take him on. It could change if stuff happens in the market tomorrow, but today, there is a number. If there's not, there really should be, because I see no other way to run a railroad. Hopefully, there is a number at which he would play for us. If the two match, they match. If they don't, they don't, and the only thing to see is whether any changes on either side in the future, at which point someone will pick up the phone.
I've had day long interviews with firms. It's not uncommon at all; especially when contemplating a $100 million investment.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/534477737176875008"]32s32soxhop411 said:
link to tweet seconds ago[/url]
The Red Sox will meet with Pablo Sandoval all day Tuesday at Fenway. There's a dinner either tonight or Tuesday night as well.
It's going to be interesting to see if Panda only visits Boston. In all reality all of Boston's problems can be solved in free agency this year while of course keeping Cespedes. Lester and a secondary starting pitcher while securing either Hanley or Panda makes them a contender again.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Show him the ballpark, the clubhouse, batting cages, and the weight room, introduce him to the Front Office and whatever of the baseball staff, trainers, etc. are around.
Probably have someone pitch him on Boston as a place to live, and maybe show him a few of the nicer neighborhoods.
He has a degree of comfort with SF, both the team and the city. You want to give him a degree of familiarity with what the Red Sox are all about, and what Boston is like beyond the hotels you stay in as a visiting player, so he has a sense of what he'd be committing to for his next six summers.
That makes sense. If it's for him, I understand. For the Sox, he plays on tv and more data is kept on him than most other professions, so I would think the meeting is just a formality. Still, it all seems a little silly. If he offered to come to Fenway for 3/50, I don't imagine the Sox would say "we need to meet with you for a day." Likewise if the Sox were to offer 150m, I don't imagine he would need to see the weight room first. It just kind of seems like a bit of a silly dance.nvalvo said:
But neither of your scenarios are going to happen. More likely, the Sox will offer him 6-12 million more over 5/6 years and then it will be a decision between SF (where he's comfortable) and Boston. If he meets nice people, sees some beautiful neighborhoods and he thinks to himself, "wow, this is a pretty cool and exciting place," he may just choose Boston > SF. Having been to both, I would choose SF over Boston but if there's 12 million more coming from Boston, maybe that's enough to change his mind.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I think both offers will be very similar, so by all means, this trip to make him comfortable, curious and excited could be enough to sway him to try something new.
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