The Game Ball Thread: Wk 6 at Colts

[PedroKsBambino]

That sort of makes some sense but to think that a BB coached team would fall for something like that means you haven't been paying attention. I mean the Pats use that type of substitution more than anyone, to think they wouldn't know what to do and how to act is dumb.
Then to snap the ball on top of it just adds another layer of stupid

 
It was a bet that the Pats would be unprepared and would panic.   I get that many teams might, and that the Colts might have thought "what would we do here?  Call a timeout/switch units"
 
However, the single team in the last 50 years LEAST likely to be unprepared and to panic happened to be the one they were actually playing, and to the degree they projected their own reaction onto the Pats it just kind of demonstrates how well prepared the Pats actually are.   People chuckle about BB quizzing guys on things and stopping practice with scenarios, but this is where it pays off.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if during practice within the last week they had some crazy fake punt play and said to the D "what do you do?  where do you go?" and drilled into them that when in doubt, go to a safe-man (or whatever they went into).  I'd be surprised if they practiced defending that particular formation/play...but not at all surprised if they practiced how to respond to the concept of an unexpected formation and play from the punt team

 

[IdiotKicker]

Here is how dumb the fake punt was:
 
http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/special-teams-film-study-nfl/2015/10/19/colts-leave-barn-door-open-on-swinging-gate-fake-punt/
 

 

[loshjott]

Colts players are saying that the point was to catch the Pats with 12 on the field or force them to call a timeout. The fact that BB left the pressure on them to figure out wtf to do was just brilliant. Every other coach in the NFL calls a timeout there.

McAfee said (and I'm paraphrasing) that it was the biggest fuck up in the history of fake punts.

 
But it was a penalty on the Colts anyway because they didn't have five on the line of scrimmage. If they quick snap and catch the Pats with 12 men on the field, I'd think it would be offsetting penalties and repeat of 4th down. 

 

[Stitch01]

Anything involving snapping the ball doesn't work because it's not close to a legal formation

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

The "offense" made no substitution. The punt team stayed on the field the whole time. The idea behind the play is that BB was supposed to see the Dolts punt team running for the sideline and yell "Defense, go!" In which case the Colts, who have made no substitution, can snap the ball for a free first down.

If that's true and the patriots attempted it,and succeeded, I really feel like there would've been a major "There they go again!" freak out, postgame. As it stands, the colts did it, and no one cares, not just bc they fucked it up. Had they succeeded, we would be reading a whole bunch of "turnabout is fair play" and "taste of your own medicine" headlines this morning.

To which I say: HA fucking HA.

 

[Leather]

Exactly. Hoisted on their own petard.

 

[Byrdbrain]

 
But it was a penalty on the Colts anyway because they didn't have five on the line of scrimmage. If they quick snap and catch the Pats with 12 men on the field, I'd think it would be offsetting penalties and repeat of 4th down. 

That is correct, even if the Pats screwed up and brought the defense on Indy was lined up illegally and had no chance of a positive outcome on the play. 
 
Edit:clarity

 

[teddykgb]

The formation isn't illegal though, at least not the one they were supposed to do. I think the guys near the sideline just lined up off one another and whomever led the pack inexplicably lined up a yard deep. WRs have to confirm this all the time with the ref on their side.

 

[speedracer]

Still not sure what Pat McAfee was doing lined up 15 yards deep in the swinging gate -- he's too deep to do anything useful at all.  I'd think that he'd know exactly what's supposed to happen if that formation is run correctly.

 

[Joshv02]

The formation isn't illegal though, at least not the one they were supposed to do. I think the guys near the sideline just lined up off one another and whomever led the pack inexplicably lined up a yard deep. WRs have to confirm this all the time with the ref on their side.

Right, but the point is that they practiced it and still every single player on the right side was 2 yards off the LOS (possible the far right winger was not).

 

[BaseballJones]

Chandler Jones and Easley were fantastic, and Collins was all over the place again. Flemming did a nice job and Brady was his normal good self.

Those last 3 drives were a great combo of mental and physical errors, though. The Delay of Game was about as bad as you will ever see from Brady.

 
Brady is amazing.  Edelman drops two balls right in his hands.  And then the one interception was also a perfectly thrown ball, square on Edelman's numbers, before JE bobbled it up for a pick-six.  
 
Think about that.  Brady, in five games, has one interception, and that one INT was a pass that hit his best receiver right between the 1's.  
 
On that note....it would not be good if Edelman's finger was a significant problem.  It sure seemed like it bothered him after it got hurt.

 

[dynomite]

Anything involving snapping the ball doesn't work because it's not close to a legal formation

That's why Pagano needed to call a timeout. It was obvious in real time that it hadn't worked, and instead of (best case) a 5-yard delay penalty he should have burned a timeout and lived to fight another drive.

 

[IdiotKicker]

That's why Pagano needed to call a timeout. It was obvious in real time that it hadn't worked, and instead of (best case) a 5-yard delay penalty he should have burned a timeout and lived to fight another drive.

 
Even a 5-yard penalty doesn't matter. That puts the Pats 10-yard line 58 yards from the LoS. This season, McAfee has had 17 open-field punts (punts from inside your own 30-yard line where you can bomb the ball without worrying about hitting the end zone) and has only had 4 of them go less than 47 yards. You pin the Pats there every time because you're in the game and don't need to do anything stupid.

 

[loshjott]

The formation isn't illegal though, at least not the one they were supposed to do. I think the guys near the sideline just lined up off one another and whomever led the pack inexplicably lined up a yard deep. WRs have to confirm this all the time with the ref on their side.

 
Doesn't the center have to be covered on both sides of the LOS for it to be a legal formation?  There was nobody left of the center.

 

[Byrdbrain]

No way you take a time out there. Take the 5 yard penalty, the Pats still likely end up inside their 30 and you save all your timeouts for later on in the game when you may badly need them.
 
Edit:As to above I think the center would be also the tight end, he even had an eligible number so he technically could have gone out for a pass. I was thinking what you said as well but I have to imagine the Indy coaches know that much(do I assume too much?).

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

 
Brady is amazing.  Edelman drops two balls right in his hands.  And then the one interception was also a perfectly thrown ball, square on Edelman's numbers, before JE bobbled it up for a pick-six.  
 
Think about that.  Brady, in five games, has one interception, and that one INT was a pass that hit his best receiver right between the 1's.  
 
On that note....it would not be good if Edelman's finger was a significant problem.  It sure seemed like it bothered him after it got hurt.

After he hurt the finger but before he dropped the passes they put him out there to field a punt.

I think the finger issue was overblown. They arnt putting a guy with a bad finger out there to catch punts when Amendola is available and perfectly capable.

 

[dynomite]

 
You pin the Pats there every time because you're in the game and don't need to do anything stupid.

That's also true.

I guess I'm saying call timeout because I just don't understand how the snap could have happened.

Ironically, it reminds me of that clip of Belichick and Brady talking prior to the 4th and 2 play in Indy, where Belichick says "You know, if presnap you don't have the look..." And Brady says "Delay of game?" And Belichick nods and says "Delay of game."

Pagano might want to have that conversation next time.

 

[BaseballJones]

After he hurt the finger but before he dropped the passes they put him out there to field a punt.

I think the finger issue was overblown. They arnt putting a guy with a bad finger out there to catch punts when Amendola is available and perfectly capable.

 
Well I hope you are right.  But it could have been Edelman telling them he's fine, he's fine, and they trust him, but it really hurts more than he's letting on.  We shall see.
 
With respect to the defense, it's nice what halftime adjustments will do for you.
 
First half drives (Colts):
13 plays, 89 yards, TD
3 plays, 8 yards, punt
5 plays, 27 yards, punt
12 plays, 80 yards, TD
(won't count the 1 play, kneel down to end the half)
 
TOTAL:  33 plays, 204 yards, 6.2 yds per play, 51 yds per drive, 2 TD
 
Second half drives (Colts):
3 plays, 9 yards, punt
6 plays, 14 yards, punt
6 plays, 17 yards, turnover on downs
3 plays, -7 yards, punt
6 plays, 7 yards, punt
9 plays, 56 yards, turnover on downs
8 plays, 85 yards, TD
 
TOTAL:  41 plays, 181 yards, 4.4 yds per play, 26 yds per drive, 1 TD

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I don't know what thread to put this in.

The three toughest QBs on the pats schedule this year were Rothleisberger, Romo and Luck. Pats won those three games (granted romo did not play).

look at the remaining a QBs on the schedule:
2x Tannehill
2x Fitz
Tyrod
Each Manning brother
Cousins
Bradford
Boyer
Mariota

Not exactly a murder's row

 

[Ralphwiggum]

If good Eli shows up that's a test, especially on the road. The rest not so much.

 

[dynomite]

If good Eli shows up that's a test, especially on the road. The rest not so much.

Oddly I feel like the Pats have had trouble with some mediocre QBs of late -- Geno had some good games, Jason Campell, Alex Smith, Tannehill.

Mostly I think the key against those kinds of QBs is to get a lead and make them start throwing. I think a QB like Fitzpatrick is a lot less effective when we don't have to stack the box to stop Ivory, for instance.

Edit: I realize this is hardly rocket science.

 

[tims4wins]

IMO toughest games left are @ Jets @ Giants @ Denver. Don't see Pats losing at home but Jets or Bills capable on right day.

Bottom line hard to see < 13 wins but dependin on how Cincy and Denver play that may only be good enough for the 3 seed - yikes

 

[j44thor]

Not enough love for Easley, thought he was a monster on the pass rush.  So nice to see a Patriot actually push the pocket.  The one sack where he destroyed the center was a thing of beauty.  Basically had the C doing the splits on that play.
 
If he can stay healthy and effective that would be a real weapon down the stretch.  
 
Any word on Sheard after the game?  That would be a big loss if he is out for an extended period.

 

[DJnVa]

I agree with this. Especially given the injuries, to score 34 on the road in this game was incredibly impressive.

 
Yeah, those saying it was a bad offensive performance have a warped sense of things. They dropped 34 on the road, and they didn't even get their offense on the field until more than half the first quarter had been played.
 
On defense they gave up 14 points until that late TD.
 
Had that ball not bounced off of Edelman and the Pats driven the field there, this game may have been tilting towards blowout early and who knows how the Colts would have reacted.
 

 

[Byrdbrain]

Not enough love for Easley, thought he was a monster on the pass rush.  So nice to see a Patriot actually push the pocket.  The one sack where he destroyed the center was a thing of beauty.  Basically had the C doing the splits on that play.
 
If he can stay healthy and effective that would be a real weapon down the stretch.  
 
Any word on Sheard after the game?  That would be a big loss if he is out for an extended period.

Yeah I don't think a 300 something pound mans legs should do that.
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CRpc8Q5WsAQR1x6.mp4
 
Plus he had an interesting sack dance.
 
Edit:So I guess I don't know how to embed.

 

[DJnVa]

 
But it was a penalty on the Colts anyway because they didn't have five on the line of scrimmage. If they quick snap and catch the Pats with 12 men on the field, I'd think it would be offsetting penalties and repeat of 4th down. 

 
 
But the Colts wouldn't have needed to snap the ball to get a penalty I don't think. If the Pats got confused and had too many people out there, it can be called unsportsmanlike conduct even before the snap. The NFL rulebook says players that have been substituted for cannot linger on the field. Not sure exactly how that's enforced though.
 
The Colts formation only became illegal once they snapped the ball. Either way though, the point was to confuse the Patriots, and it's just a low percentage play.

 

[Erik Hanson's Hook]

Up: Collins, Jones, Brady
 
Down: cameraman who fell on his ass

 

[Rooster Crows]

Here is how dumb the fake punt was:
 
http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/special-teams-film-study-nfl/2015/10/19/colts-leave-barn-door-open-on-swinging-gate-fake-punt/
 
Very nice, Chuck - best explanation I've seen so far.  Thanks

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I was wondering if they were lined up behind the line of scrimmage on purpose and 3-4 Pats line up in the neutral zone, what they would have done. If they snap, it would have been offsetting, correct? Neutral zone infraction and illegal formation. If we are in the zone, do 6 guys step up to the line and snap it before we can get back? I'm leaning towards thinking the lining up deep was a mistake. 

 

[Byrdbrain]

So Zo is on the radio saying that Bolden told him last night that Whalen(the "QB") was shouting to the center to not snap the ball. 
Just to add another layer to this fail parfait.
 
 
Edit:Just thinking about this some more if you are Whalen why even put your hands under center. You are taking the penalty just stand there for a few seconds.

 

[Stitch01]

Center definitely seems like he spazzed out.  That whole play was a good example of a coaching staff not putting their players in a position to succeed by giving them something they couldn't handle (as evidenced by the whole team lining up wrong and the coaching staff still just sitting there and not calling a TO to get out of the play)

 

[dynomite]

So Zo is on the radio saying that Bolden told him last night the Whalen(the "QB") was shouting to the center to not snap the ball. .

God, if true this is like that moment in the 2004 World Series when the Cardinals pitcher (Suppan, right?) was on base and got thrown out on a ground ball to the right side because the 3rd base coach was screaming "Go go go!" but he heard "No no no!"

 

[Stitch01]

Amendola should get some props.  He was dead and buried on the depth chart a year ago and is now back to being an integral part of the offense, caught 7 balls on 9 targets last night and made the Colts pay for taking Gronk out of the game.  Should be a nice WR group with LaFell back. 

 

[Super Nomario]

Amendola should get some props.  He was dead and buried on the depth chart a year ago and is now back to being an integral part of the offense, caught 7 balls on 9 targets last night and made the Colts pay for taking Gronk out of the game.  Should be a nice WR group with LaFell back. 

Amendola has more receiving yards in five games this year than he had in 16 regular-season games last year.

 

[lexrageorge]

I was wondering if they were lined up behind the line of scrimmage on purpose and 3-4 Pats line up in the neutral zone, what they would have done. If they snap, it would have been offsetting, correct? Neutral zone infraction and illegal formation. If we are in the zone, do 6 guys step up to the line and snap it before we can get back? I'm leaning towards thinking the lining up deep was a mistake. 

There's no reason to think that lining up deep was the intention.  Otherwise, the formation has absolutely no purpose.  There is literally no downside to lining up correctly.  
 
There is indeed a rule that if the defense has more than 11 players when the snap is imminent, the defense is penalized 5 yards.  But, if that was the intention, the offense may has well been lined up correctly.  It's not clear if the offense would have been penalized for illegal formation in that circumstance (the rule book is unclear), but why take the chance? 
 
To address another point up thread, had the 6 players been lined up at the scrimmage line, the formation would have been legal provided the players at the end were eligible receivers.  That's part of the reason the Colts needed to use a WR to snap the ball, as the "center" was at the end of the line.  
 
Bottom line is that the Dolts coaching staff gets a game ball for such a poorly planned and even more poorly executed play.
 
Patriots game balls:
 
Brady
Amendola
Collins
Easley
 
And I also have to give props to the secondary.  Butler made a nice tackle of Moncrief on a short pass to prevent a first down to force a punt early in the 3rd quarter. And Logan Ryan had some nice plays.  

 

[cshea]

Nitpick but Whalen was the center.

Colt Anderson, a safety, played the role of QB.

 

[lexrageorge]

Amendola has more receiving yards in five games this year than he had in 16 regular-season games last year.

Amendola started to come around late last season, and had a nice run in the playoffs with 3 TD catches.  Good timing given the possibility that Edelman may need to miss a game or two in case his finger needs more time to heal.

 

[DJnVa]

I enjoyed the narrative in the game thread that Blount was cooked and Gore looked unstoppable:
 
Blount: 16 for 93, 1 catch for 11 yards--17 touches for 104
Gore: 13 for 78, 2 catches for 16--16 touches for 94

 

[joe dokes]

Down:

- Mayo -- Maybe harsh, but he looked like he was getting pushed around on some run plays.
 

 
Not harsh. Maybe he's still "getting it back," but I'm a bit worried that Mayo's knee injury has cooked him. He was unable to do *anything* against the run.

 

[JimD]

God, if true this is like that moment in the 2004 World Series when the Cardinals pitcher (Suppan, right?) was on base and got thrown out on a ground ball to the right side because the 3rd base coach was screaming "Go go go!" but he heard "No no no!"

 
It was Suppan, and the cherry on top was that he was thrown out by a DH who was only playing first because the game was at an NL park.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Center definitely seems like he spazzed out.  That whole play was a good example of a coaching staff not putting their players in a position to succeed by giving them something they couldn't handle (as evidenced by the whole team lining up wrong and the coaching staff still just sitting there and not calling a TO to get out of the play)

Bolden said the guy was yelling "Don't snap it, don't snap it!" It may have been as simple as they used stupid phrasing and the guy misheard. He should be screaming "NO NO NO," not something with "snap it" in the phrase while the crowd is getting all revved up for an upcoming massive fail.

 

[cgori]

I believe that's why "kill kill kill" is used for that kind of situation ("no" vs "go" being misheard)

Could always go with "Omaha!" ...

 

[Stevie1der]

My favorite part of the botched play was when immediately after the epic fail, they go to a shot of Belichick just nodding perfunctorily like "Yup, that went exactly as expected.  San Diego tried that play against the Oilers back in '87, turned out the exact same way."

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

God, if true this is like that moment in the 2004 World Series when the Cardinals pitcher (Suppan, right?) was on base and got thrown out on a ground ball to the right side because the 3rd base coach was screaming "Go go go!" but he heard "No no no!"

 
Only off by a few decades
 

 
 
After being fired by the Padres at the close of the 1973 campaign, he served as the third-base coach for the Boston Red Sox for 2½ seasons. Working under skipper Darrell Johnson, Zimmer's tenure included a memorable event during Game 6 of the 1975 World Series. Boston had the bases loaded and none out in the home half of the ninth inning. The score was tied. A soft fly to left field was too shallow to score the winning run, but baserunner Denny Doyle thought Zimmer's shouts of "No! No! No!" were actually "Go! Go! Go!"[16] He ran for home, and was thrown out at the plate. That play, and Dwight Evans' brilliant catch off Joe Morgan in extra innings, set up Carlton Fisk's classic, game-winning home run.

 

[simplyeric]

That's also true.

I guess I'm saying call timeout because I just don't understand how the snap could have happened.

Ironically, it reminds me of that clip of Belichick and Brady talking prior to the 4th and 2 play in Indy, where Belichick says "You know, if presnap you don't have the look..." And Brady says "Delay of game?" And Belichick nods and says "Delay of game."

Pagano might want to have that conversation next time.

 
 
I keep thinking that the reason the center snapped the ball was that maybe he thought he had someone on the D offsides.
(this assumes, of course, that they at least intended to have a legal formation)
 
but more likely he just panicked

 

[lexrageorge]

 
 
I keep thinking that the reason the center snapped the ball was that maybe he thought he had someone on the D offsides.
(this assumes, of course, that they at least intended to have a legal formation)
 
but more likely he just panicked

The "center" on that play is normally a wide receiver.  The "QB" is normally a safety.  Panic, or miscommunication, should be the default explanation.

 

[j44thor]

The "center" on that play is normally a wide receiver.  The "QB" is normally a safety.  Panic, or miscommunication, should be the default explanation.

 
Which made the play even more bizarre. If you have a 300lb center or even a long snapper snapping to a RB you still might be able to get 2 yards.  Instead they have a guy that never gets into a stance on the line and a guy that rarely handles the ball trying to run it.

 

[Marciano490]

Did everyone else enjoy the post-game interviews of Blount and Jones as much as I did.  Shit eating grins for miles talking about how this was just another game.  I love this team.

 

[8slim]

Is it really that critical to get a team to burn a time out, anyway?  I mean that seems to be one of the two desired outcomes of that comical fake punt call.  I just don't think it's worth anyone's time to be practicing a play where the best-case scenario is getting the other team to call a TO or lure them into a too-many-men penalty.  Practice time is precious, why waste on such a low-impact play?

 

[Stevie1der]

Is it really that critical to get a team to burn a time out, anyway?  I mean that seems to be one of the two desired outcomes of that comical fake punt call.  I just don't think it's worth anyone's time to be practicing a play where the best-case scenario is getting the other team to call a TO or lure them into a too-many-men penalty.  Practice time is precious, why waste on such a low-impact play?

 
Maybe they were emboldened by the fact that poor time management and wasting of a timeout clearly came back to bite the Pats in the ass at the end of the first half.