The Goat Thread: Week 14 at Miami

SeoulSoxFan

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All around suck, from Brady to Cooks to Allen (both) to the coaching staff.

The only silver lining is having no major injury added on top of the already deleted units on all sides.

Enjoy your big win, Miami. Pats were out of it pretty much all game.
 

mulluysavage

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Gronk.
Brady, the 2 ints were badly underthrown.
J McD - came up with zero to beat the pressure/man. Any X/O guys know what was up with that?

Honorary: BB - hoodie too tight, boobs looked bad.
 

j44thor

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Eric Lee looked a lot more like a practice squad player tonight. Couldn't set the edge any better than Marsh. Lost contain consistently.
Joe Thuney has had a couple rough games in a row.
 

alydar

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Hard to say the defense was good when you give up 27 points, but they held them when they needed to in the late 3rd / 4th quarter, and when your offense puts you down 2 in the turnover battle, plus doesn't convert ANY third downs, so defense largely gets a pass. O-line like a sieve, which usually leads to a few Dumb Brady moments (that second INT was obviously coming the second he threw it).

Win out and get the bye, lose to Pitt and we might be looking at playing WC weekend .
 

OurF'ingCity

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Everyone involved with the offense including coaches.

Gilmore always seems like he is sucking when the Pats are playing like shit, not sure what is the chicken and what is the egg there.

Elandon Roberts, who to be fair was put in a very difficult position defending Drake but still had some brutal plays and was exposed.

Belichick for inexplicably deciding to punt twice late when the game was still within reach.
 

Mystic Merlin

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For as exemplary as he is, BB's decisions to punt on 4th down late in the game were fucking ridiculous. Effectively conceding an onside game is moronic.

The OL and Brady were an unfortunate combination of suck for most of the game.
 

timelysarcasm

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Offense: Brady made a lot of poor throws, not much separation on intermediate routes, o-line had trouble most of the night.

Defense missed Van Noy and Flowers big time. Hope they're back next week along with Gronk.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Win out and get the bye, lose to Pitt and we might be looking at playing WC weekend .
Yeah, what a huge game next week is. Win and likely have HFA. Lose, and likely host Ravens/Chargers for the right to have to beat JAX and PIT on the road.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I think Bill thought the game was getting lost either way and that this game was largely irrelevant as far as final seeding is concerned, so he did kinda punt it once the offense went back to 3 & outs in the 4th.
 

cshea

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I think Bill thought the game was getting lost either way and that this game was largely irrelevant as far as final seeding is concerned, so he did kinda punt it once the offense went back to 3 & outs in the 4th.
Then why send Brady out there with 2:30 left? They should’ve just white flagged it if that was the case.

Linebackers and O line are my goats tonight.
 

ifmanis5

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Burkhead had his moments, and then they forgot to use him. It was a disjointed night all around.
Not shocked they lost but how they lost is pretty alarming.
 

Ed Hillel

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I’m definitely concerned about Brady’s health. If he can’t plant properly because of his injury, it’s a real issue. He also looked sick in the face.

The game was a cluster all-around, obviously. Plenty of goats.
 

alydar

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No good options when you're down multiple scores and have awful field position.

After some loses you end up feeling like, jeez, if we only that one ball had bounced differently.
For other loses, you feel like, man, if we only had another quarter of we would have won, we were going right direction.
Either of those, you end up dwelling on the loss (at least as a fan).

This game was neither. We weren't one toss-up play away, and they could have played 60 more minutes and it wouldn't have mattered. Hope it is easier to turn the page on loss like this. Hate the short week...
 

simplyeric

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The punting is the reason we lost?

The punting?!

Yeesh.

Brady looked like dogshit. Literally, the first view I saw of him in the first series of the first quarter I thought 'he's sick and it's gonna be a long night'.

Defense tried to hold its own but zero 3rd down conversion and two interceptions? Flip one of those into a field goal for the Pats and it could have been the dolphins trying to make a final drive comeback. Those interceptions were terrible.

Can't say much more than 'Brady had a terrible day'.

(Yeah there were other issues, but that's THE scapegoat for the night. Brady can take it.)
 

TheoShmeo

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The onside kick was poorly conceived and executed. If it had rolled 10 yards, it was moving too slowly to for it to lead to a bobble. I can’t remotely grasps why they would onside in that matter. Terrible decision and one that ended the game.

And the pats should have gone for a QB sneak from the one foot line. Take a shot at a quick low risk score.
 

Van Everyman

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Brady didn’t look sick just now in the presser but he did look very low energy. Very low energy.

Make Tommy great again and squeeze out a victory in Pennsylvania.
 

simplyeric

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The onside kick was poorly conceived and executed. If it had rolled 10 yards, it was moving too slowly to for it to lead to a bobble. I can’t remotely grasps why they would onside in that matter. Terrible decision and one that ended the game.

And the pats should have gone for a QB sneak from the one foot line. Take a shot at a quick low risk score.
There was no gap. Dolphins were looking for the sneak. Brady's success in that is because he picks his moments. That wouldn't have been a good moment.
 

Ed Hillel

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I thought the onsides kick design was pretty good. I’d guess a lot of people clam up and fumble the ball a bit with 9 people standing over them. Others might let it go in the moment, opening up a free for all at the ten yard mark. I bet it offers better odds than the 15ish percent success rate of standard onside kicks.
 

BigSoxFan

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Also Jordan Richards for costing NE 4 pts.
I don’t want this play getting forgotten. I felt like the game pivoted on Richards’ inability to tackle Jay freaking Cutler. I hate everything about Richards. The guy flat out sucks and can’t seem to do anything right.
 

Bowhemian

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ESPN, for the Aaron fucking Boone interview at halftime.
Brady, for an unusually shit game. He was terrible.
BB for healthy scratch of Harris with Van Noy out. LBs sucked.
McD for crappy play calls most of the game.
 

Jimbodandy

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Coaching was horrible across the board. Defense was stout overall, but the communication issues led to some big missed plays. Offense was a mess and really didn't accomplish anything whatsoever until Miami went into clock-killing mode. This team was not prepared.
 

CantKeepmedown

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Goat trophy for the whole team. That was rough.

I actually thought the onside kick was well done. That ball was a slow crawl towards 10 yards forcing the receiving team to run up. Doing that with 9 guys running at you can't be easy.

I can't believe a Bill Belichick coached team would be looking ahead, but I don't know how else to explain the way they played last night. Shitty game all around, but it doesn't really change anything. Win next week and we're back in the driver's seat. I full expect them to go into Pittsburgh prepared and ready to go.
 

TheoShmeo

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There was no gap. Dolphins were looking for the sneak. Brady's success in that is because he picks his moments. That wouldn't have been a good moment.
Perhaps. But with only a foot to move, I would think Brady could find space after the ball was snapped.

That play certainly was not make or break. But I think it was worth a shot.

I’m still sick about the foolishness of the onside kick. Not that Gost failed to execute. But the thought process behind that slow roller seems Herm Edwards-like.

Away from the goat angle, I think last night was finally the breaking point with so many damn injuries. They’ve done a remarkable job covering them up but the loss of Van Noy and Flowers on D and not having Gronk on O, when added to the exiting long list of missing bodies was more important than any gaffe or bad night, IMO.
 

BaseballJones

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Goat trophy for the whole team. That was rough.

I actually thought the onside kick was well done. That ball was a slow crawl towards 10 yards forcing the receiving team to run up. Doing that with 9 guys running at you can't be easy.

I can't believe a Bill Belichick coached team would be looking ahead, but I don't know how else to explain the way they played last night. Shitty game all around, but it doesn't really change anything. Win next week and we're back in the driver's seat. I full expect them to go into Pittsburgh prepared and ready to go.
It's not that hard to explain, really. The Patriots typically struggle in Miami. Here are all of Brady's regular season games in Miami during what has been the greatest career in the greatest run in NFL history, a run which has seen the Pats destroy the entire league for like 16 straight seasons:

10/7/01 - L, 30-10, Brady: 12-24, 86 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 58.7 rating (SB win)
10/6/02 - L, 26-13, Brady: 17-31, 240 yds, 2 td, 2 int, 74.7 rating
10/19/03 - W, 19-13 (OT), Brady: 24-34, 283 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 115.2 rating (SB win)
12/20/04 - L, 29-28, Brady: 18-29, 171 yds, 3 td, 4 int, 73.3 rating (SB win)
11/13/05 - W, 23-16, Brady: 21-36, 275 yds, 2 td, 2 int, 77.9 rating
12/10/06 - L, 21-0, Brady: 12-25, 78 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 55.1 rating
10/21/07 - W, 49-28, Brady: 21-25, 365 yds, 6 td, 0 int, 158.3 rating
12/6/09 - L, 22-21, Brady: 19-29, 352 yds, 2 td, 2 int, 101.5 rating
10/4/10 - W, 41-14, Brady: 19-24, 153 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 107.1 rating
9/12/11 - W, 38-24, Brady: 32-48, 517 yds, 4 td, 1 int, 121.6 rating
12/2/12 - W, 23-16, Brady: 24-40, 238 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 74.8 rating
12/15/13 - L, 24-20, Brady: 34-55, 364 yds, 1 td, 2 int, 85.7 rating
9/17/14 - L, 33-20, Brady: 29-56, 249 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 69.7 rating (SB win)
1/3/16 - L, 20-10, Brady: 12-21, 134 yds, 0 td, 0 int, 76.3 rating
1/1/17 - W, 35-14, Brady: 25-33, 276 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 130.4 rating (SB win)
12/11/17 - L, 27-20, Brady: 24-43, 233 yds, 1 td, 2 int, 59.5 rating

TOTALS: 7 wins, 9 losses, 343-553 (62.0%), 4014 yds, 29 td, 18 int, 87.9 rating

In other words, even when the Pats have been great, playing in Miami has just been really, really hard for them. Brady has performed, with a few exceptions, very modestly in Miami, and often very poorly. The team has struggled. Just a few blowout wins during a run which has seen the Patriots crush nearly everyone else in the league on a regular basis. They've won 2 of the last 3 SBs and yet have lost 4 of the last 5 times down in Miami.

So remember this going forward. If they somehow grind out a 24-23 win next year in ugly fashion, just be grateful and move on to the next week. It's hard to look at these numbers and not come away with some sense that for whatever reason, it's just a tough place for New England to play, even during the greatest run the sport has ever known.
 

Super Nomario

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Hard to say the defense was good when you give up 27 points, but they held them when they needed to in the late 3rd / 4th quarter, and when your offense puts you down 2 in the turnover battle, plus doesn't convert ANY third downs, so defense largely gets a pass. O-line like a sieve, which usually leads to a few Dumb Brady moments (that second INT was obviously coming the second he threw it).
The other way of looking at it is that this is how the D looks when the O doesn't give them every advantage. Most weeks the O scores a lot, rarely turns the ball over, and keeps time of possession, so the D faces few drives, long fields, and often the opposing O has to abandon the run. Yesterday the O struggled, and suddenly the D didn't have all their typical advantages. The D also didn't do the O any favors by generating turnovers.
 

sodenj5

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I come in peace. I just wanted to speak on the onside kick for a quick second.

I agree that the intent and design of the play is logical, however that seems like a one-time ever kind of play. Like the entire premise is showing the hands team something they likely have never seen before, create uncertainty, and hope for a panicked muff with about 8 dudes ready to pounce on the ball.

Now the entire world saw that play and it pretty much has to get thrown in the shredder, right?
 

54thMA

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I’m definitely concerned about Brady’s health. If he can’t plant properly because of his injury, it’s a real issue. He also looked sick in the face.

The game was a cluster all-around, obviously. Plenty of goats.
Me too; his throws were pretty much off all night; bouncing the ball, behind guys, poor decisions on some of the passes too ,he did not look right at all from jump. The pressure Miami brought all night long had something to do with it, but even when he had time, his throws for the most part were not very good.

Definitely a concern.
 

BaseballJones

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The other way of looking at it is that this is how the D looks when the O doesn't give them every advantage. Most weeks the O scores a lot, rarely turns the ball over, and keeps time of possession, so the D faces few drives, long fields, and often the opposing O has to abandon the run. Yesterday the O struggled, and suddenly the D didn't have all their typical advantages. The D also didn't do the O any favors by generating turnovers.
It's how most defenses look when the other team has typically good field position, their own offense isn't possessing the ball or scoring, so the D is playing from behind, defending short fields, and not generating turnovers.
 

tims4wins

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It's how most defenses look when the other team has typically good field position, their own offense isn't possessing the ball or scoring, so the D is playing from behind, defending short fields, and not generating turnovers.
Right just look at Denver. #1 in total defense. #24 in points allowed.
 

bigq

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Pats’ defense for missed tackles and at least one sack in the backfield.

Brady for forcing deep throws.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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McDaniels: never adjusted. Baffling. It's not the first time he's continued to call the deep, slow developing routes in the face of a ridiculous pass rush. One Burkhead touch in the second half? Why? How about a Cooks drag to get him into some space? I expect other teams to manhandle Cooks going forward until the refs decide to start calling illegal contact/holding.

Elandon Roberts: the guy single handily gave up over 100 yards to Kenyan Drake. Tough spot, yes, but learn how to take a good angle and tackle ffs.
 

Super Nomario

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It's how most defenses look when the other team has typically good field position, their own offense isn't possessing the ball or scoring, so the D is playing from behind, defending short fields, and not generating turnovers.
The Dolphins average starting field position last night was about their own 27, not including the final kneeldown. That's better than league average. (It's a little less than 29 counting the final kneeldown, which would still rank ~20th). The O didn't do the D any favors last night, but it wasn't like the Bills vs the Saints or Chargers and they were continually handing points to the other team. Last night was basically what we should expect out of the D if Hoyer had to start a game.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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The other way of looking at it is that this is how the D looks when the O doesn't give them every advantage. Most weeks the O scores a lot, rarely turns the ball over, and keeps time of possession, so the D faces few drives, long fields, and often the opposing O has to abandon the run. Yesterday the O struggled, and suddenly the D didn't have all their typical advantages. The D also didn't do the O any favors by generating turnovers.
God you hate this defense so much :D

The TOA was 36 minutes to 24 minutes, and most of that gap was made up when the Dolphins went into clock killing mode. Between that and the inability to get any drives going - 8 of 13 drives stalling out before their own 35 yard line - this defense barely had a chance last night.

No, they did not perform well. They needed turnovers, they needed pressure, they needed a spark because the offense was really struggling. They didn't get that. But they played well enough under the circumstance presented that this game should fall at the offenses feet.
 

BigJimEd

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There was no gap. Dolphins were looking for the sneak. Brady's success in that is because he picks his moments. That wouldn't have been a good moment.
I think the review hurt them there. Maybe with a hurry up they can get the sneak of quick. After the delay, Miami was lined up for it.


I thought the onsides kick design was pretty good. I’d guess a lot of people clam up and fumble the ball a bit with 9 people standing over them. Others might let it go in the moment, opening up a free for all at the ten yard mark. I bet it offers better odds than the 15ish percent success rate of standard onside kicks.
It just seemed to me that it was poorly executed though. I'll need to take a look at it again but ut seemed like the Patriots were waiting for Miami to touch the ball or for it to go ten yards.
The ball was going slow enough that it seemed like they could have run down there and block the Dolphins.
Maybe Miami came up quicker than expected. I don't know I was pretty frustrated at that point.


Plenty of goats. Front 7 on D. I don't think Butler played particularly well either.
Offensively, just all around. Never got anything going.
Special teams had a coupe of key penalties when it looks like they might get decent field position.

And Gronk
 

Super Nomario

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God you hate this defense so much :D
The TOA was 36 minutes to 24 minutes, and most of that gap was made up when the Dolphins went into clock killing mode. Between that and the inability to get any drives going - 8 of 13 drives stalling out before their own 35 yard line - this defense barely had a chance last night.
The O struggled, for sure. The D barely had a chance? I dunno. They could have played better. A large part of the reason they were dominated on TOP is because they couldn't get off the field when Miami had the ball. The Dolphins started the game with a six-minute FG drive and followed that up with a 4 1/2 minute FG drive.

And re: the bolded, it's tough to stall out before the 35 unless you start before the 35. The O had bad field position most of the night, and scored TDs on both drives where they didn't.

My issue with people like you who love the defense so much you want to marry it is that you make excuses for them in games like last night when they don't dominate TOP, turn the ball over, etc., but don't recognize when those advantages cut the other way. Against the Chargers, for instance, they dominated TOP, never gave LA good field position, and held the game to few drives; are you downgrading that defensive performance? (FWIW, EPA actually ranks the defensive performance against the Chargers a little worse than last night's, so I'm not just making this up)

No, they did not perform well. They needed turnovers, they needed pressure, they needed a spark because the offense was really struggling. They didn't get that. But they played well enough under the circumstance presented that this game should fall at the offenses feet.
I don't see why it's one or the other; it's both. The offense was bad and the defense was bad. Make me pick one, the offense was worse, but that doesn't make the D good.
 

tims4wins

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It’s similar to those 2011-2013 defenses. We only expect / need the D to play adequately if the offense performs. When the offense doesn’t perform, the defensive performance usually isn’t good enough.