The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

PedroKsBambino

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another interpretation is that good QB decision making involves avoiding tight windows more often.
That would fit who is high/low in it though o haven’t checked multiple years in that hypothesis
 

Justthetippett

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View: https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/1467506579142365188?s=20


Mac may ultimately not end up being The Guy long term, but the Pats really lucked out in getting him. This years draft is looking exceptionally bad for QBs.
Would be shocked if this were the case. Some team will talk themselves into Corral or Pickett. Rookie QB contracts are the best value in the game, even if you are able to get only replacement level play.
 

Eddie Jurak

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There are certain things we saw from Brady in his first year playing that we have not seen from Mac, though some of that relates to opportunity.

Between regular season and playoffs Brady had 5 4th quarter game winning drives; Mac has 1 so far. Brady also showed he could perform in bad weather; Mac has yet to do that.

By quarterback rating, Mac is not far off of Brady's 2001. Brady was 6th in the league in 2001; Mac is 12th right now and would need 5.5 rating points to be 6th. (His actual rating is higher than Brady's, but in a comparison to 20 years ago, I think ranking in the league is a better way to compare).

Mac will get his chance at bad weather soon.
 

Silverdude2167

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There are certain things we saw from Brady in his first year playing that we have not seen from Mac, though some of that relates to opportunity.

Between regular season and playoffs Brady had 5 4th quarter game winning drives; Mac has 1 so far. Brady also showed he could perform in bad weather; Mac has yet to do that.

By quarterback rating, Mac is not far off of Brady's 2001. Brady was 6th in the league in 2001; Mac is 12th right now and would need 5.5 rating points to be 6th. (His actual rating is higher than Brady's, but in a comparison to 20 years ago, I think ranking in the league is a better way to compare).

Mac will get his chance at bad weather soon.
This is all true, but maybe a bit unfair when it comes to 4th quarter game-winning drives.

He probably should have had one against Miami, but Harris fumbled.
He may have had on against TB, but the kick hit the upright (Mac deserves the least amount of "may have" for this one)
He should have had one against Dallas, but the D could not stop a 3rd and long.

So it is not very hard to see Mac with four 4th Quarter gwd's.
 

Euclis20

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There are certain things we saw from Brady in his first year playing that we have not seen from Mac, though some of that relates to opportunity.

Between regular season and playoffs Brady had 5 4th quarter game winning drives; Mac has 1 so far. Brady also showed he could perform in bad weather; Mac has yet to do that.

By quarterback rating, Mac is not far off of Brady's 2001. Brady was 6th in the league in 2001; Mac is 12th right now and would need 5.5 rating points to be 6th. (His actual rating is higher than Brady's, but in a comparison to 20 years ago, I think ranking in the league is a better way to compare).

Mac will get his chance at bad weather soon.
This is the thing that is too often missed in the Brady/Mac comparisons, or only just mentioned in passing. Mac's 2021 numbers compared with QBs in 2001 are astonishing - he'd be in the MVP discussion if he was putting up these numbers back then. If he keeps up his current pace he'd finish in 3rd in completions, 3rd in yards, 2nd in passer rating and 1st in completion percentage (just 9th in TD passes, but the Pats would have the second most points in the league). I get the urge to compare, but man, it's night and day.
 
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azsoxpatsfan

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This is all true, but maybe a bit unfair when it comes to 4th quarter game-winning drives.

He probably should have had one against Miami, but Harris fumbled.
He may have had on against TB, but the kick hit the upright (Mac deserves the least amount of "may have" for this one)
He should have had one against Dallas, but the D could not stop a 3rd and long.

So it is not very hard to see Mac with four 4th Quarter gwd's.
Yea, Mac has been solid when it comes to clutch play this year. He had two opportunities for go ahead drives in the 4th against Miami down 17-13. He went 3/4, 37 yards and the Pats kicked a FG, then went 6/8, 32 yards and Harris fumbled. He had a chance against the Bucs, and went 3/5, 23 yards plus a 20 yard DPI, missed FG. Went 3/4, 37 yards to set up game winner vs. Houston, then had two more chances against Dallas. Down 20-13, he went 3/5 with 25 yards on a go ahead drive, then down 26-21 he went 1/1, 75 yards and a touchdown to take the lead again (obviously one of the blown leads was on his pick-6).

Other than the pick-6, he hasn’t made any crucial mistakes (unless you count the batted down pass against Tampa), and has had the Pats in position to win almost every time. The only drives in the 4th where the Pats had the opportunity to take the lead and didn’t we’re both against Miami (FG down 4 and the Harris fumble) and the one against Tampa
 

RG33

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There are certain things we saw from Brady in his first year playing that we have not seen from Mac, though some of that relates to opportunity.

Between regular season and playoffs Brady had 5 4th quarter game winning drives; Mac has 1 so far. Brady also showed he could perform in bad weather; Mac has yet to do that.

By quarterback rating, Mac is not far off of Brady's 2001. Brady was 6th in the league in 2001; Mac is 12th right now and would need 5.5 rating points to be 6th. (His actual rating is higher than Brady's, but in a comparison to 20 years ago, I think ranking in the league is a better way to compare).

Mac will get his chance at bad weather soon.
I get and agree with your overall point, but I think it is an important point when making this comparison to acknowledge that TB12 was not a rookie his first year playing. TB12 had a full year playing behind Bledsoe, two training camps, a full year in the QB room picking things up, studying film and plays, etc. That coupled with the difference/complexities in offenses between 2001 and 2021 make what Mac Jones is doing pretty impressive.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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This is the thing that is too often missed in the Brady/Mac comparisons, or only just mentioned in passing. Mac's 2021 numbers compared with QBs in 2001 are astonishing - he'd be in the MVP discussion if he was putting up these numbers back then. If he keeps up his current pace he'd finish in 3rd in completions, 3rd in yards, 2nd in passer rating and 1st in completion percentage (just 9th in TD passes, but the Pats would have the second most points in the league). I get the urge to compare, but man, it's night and day.
The fact I can never get over is that 2001 NFL MVP and ring conductor of the Greatest Show on Turf Kurt Warner threw 22 interceptions.

No QB in the entire NFL threw more than 15 interceptions last year. Joe Burrow is our current 2021 leader with 14.
 

Cellar-Door

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The fact I can never get over is that 2001 NFL MVP and ring conductor of the Greatest Show on Turf Kurt Warner threw 22 interceptions.

No QB in the entire NFL threw more than 15 interceptions last year. Joe Burrow is our current 2021 leader with 14.
His INT% was 4.0. This year 2 starters are that high... Justin Fields (right at 4.0), Zach Wilson at 4.5%. Jameis went for 4.8% in his 30/30 season. Last player to hit 5% was Peyton's goodbye tour.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I forgot how turnover prone Peyton was in his final year, probably because they won the SB (in spite of Peyton) and the prevailing media narrative at the time characterized him as the veteran, heady game manager. In fact, he was flat out bad, even through the playoffs, to the point where only a few SB winning QBs (maybe Roethlisberger in ‘05?) played worse in the SB.
 

Jimbodandy

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Pulled top INT and TD seasons from FR. The tiers are not perfectly aligned, since a lot of people tied. But if I use an arbitrary cutoff around top-100 (101 for pass TD, 116 for INT), the graphs look like this.

Most of the Top 100ish passing TD performances happened in the last 20 years, and almost none of the Top 100ish interception performance have. I think that you can draw a direct line to the Polian rules for that, but there are plenty of other reasons.

For Kurt Warner references, his 2001 was in the top 100 (36TDs) as was Brett Favre and Jeff George with 32 each. Trent Green and Peyton break the list with 24 and 23 INTs, respectively. In 2020, 9 guys are on the TD list and nobody is on the INT list.

47020
47021
 

Strike4

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There are certain things we saw from Brady in his first year playing that we have not seen from Mac, though some of that relates to opportunity.

Between regular season and playoffs Brady had 5 4th quarter game winning drives; Mac has 1 so far. Brady also showed he could perform in bad weather; Mac has yet to do that.

By quarterback rating, Mac is not far off of Brady's 2001. Brady was 6th in the league in 2001; Mac is 12th right now and would need 5.5 rating points to be 6th. (His actual rating is higher than Brady's, but in a comparison to 20 years ago, I think ranking in the league is a better way to compare).

Mac will get his chance at bad weather soon.
Also Brady turned out to be...the greatest player in NFL history. If Mac can be something like half of that, I think we're good.
 

BaseballJones

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I forgot how turnover prone Peyton was in his final year, probably because they won the SB (in spite of Peyton) and the prevailing media narrative at the time characterized him as the veteran, heady game manager. In fact, he was flat out bad, even through the playoffs, to the point where only a few SB winning QBs (maybe Roethlisberger in ‘05?) played worse in the SB.
Peyton in 2015 was maybe the worst QB to win a Super Bowl. Look at his game log:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/2015/

The highlights....

- Played 9 games to start the year. Over those 9 games, he had only 1 game with a passer rating over 100 (week 3 against Detroit, when he was 31-42, 324 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 101.7 rating).
- Over those 9 games, he completed 59.9% of his passes, threw 9 td and 17 interceptions. His passer rating was 67.6.
- His last 6 games, he completed 57% of his passes, threw 4 td and 14 interceptions for a 57.3 passer rating.
- His last game of that 9, he went 5-20 for 35 yds, 0 td, and 4 int. After that he was benched until week 17.
- His playoff run featured zero games with more than 57% completions, zero games with more than 222 yards, and zero games with a passer rating over 90.1. His playoff stat line was: 51-92 (55.4%), 539 yds, 5.9 y/a, 2 td, 1 int, and a passer rating of 75.4.

Other QBs have put up similar numbers while winning, but when you contextualize those numbers for the era in which he played, it was easily the worst QB performance to ever win a Super Bowl.
 

Cellar-Door

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Peyton in 2015 was maybe the worst QB to win a Super Bowl. Look at his game log:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/2015/

The highlights....

- Played 9 games to start the year. Over those 9 games, he had only 1 game with a passer rating over 100 (week 3 against Detroit, when he was 31-42, 324 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 101.7 rating).
- Over those 9 games, he completed 59.9% of his passes, threw 9 td and 17 interceptions. His passer rating was 67.6.
- His last 6 games, he completed 57% of his passes, threw 4 td and 14 interceptions for a 57.3 passer rating.
- His last game of that 9, he went 5-20 for 35 yds, 0 td, and 4 int. After that he was benched until week 17.
- His playoff run featured zero games with more than 57% completions, zero games with more than 222 yards, and zero games with a passer rating over 90.1. His playoff stat line was: 51-92 (55.4%), 539 yds, 5.9 y/a, 2 td, 1 int, and a passer rating of 75.4.

Other QBs have put up similar numbers while winning, but when you contextualize those numbers for the era in which he played, it was easily the worst QB performance to ever win a Super Bowl.
He was significantly worse than Brock Osweiler with the same roster. He was TOAST
 

Red Right Ankle

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Peyton in 2015 was maybe the worst QB to win a Super Bowl. Look at his game log:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/2015/

The highlights....

- Played 9 games to start the year. Over those 9 games, he had only 1 game with a passer rating over 100 (week 3 against Detroit, when he was 31-42, 324 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 101.7 rating).
- Over those 9 games, he completed 59.9% of his passes, threw 9 td and 17 interceptions. His passer rating was 67.6.
- His last 6 games, he completed 57% of his passes, threw 4 td and 14 interceptions for a 57.3 passer rating.
- His last game of that 9, he went 5-20 for 35 yds, 0 td, and 4 int. After that he was benched until week 17.
- His playoff run featured zero games with more than 57% completions, zero games with more than 222 yards, and zero games with a passer rating over 90.1. His playoff stat line was: 51-92 (55.4%), 539 yds, 5.9 y/a, 2 td, 1 int, and a passer rating of 75.4.

Other QBs have put up similar numbers while winning, but when you contextualize those numbers for the era in which he played, it was easily the worst QB performance to ever win a Super Bowl.
Man, that is heinous. Compare that to 2000 Dilfer, who is usually cited as the prime example of a crappy QB who won a SB on the back of an all-time defense:

Regular Season: Also 9 GS, 1 game over 100 passer rating, 1 at 99.7. Completed 59.3% of passes for 12 TDs and 11 INTs. Average passer rating of 76.6.

Manning threw 46% (331 attempts vs 226 for Dilfer) more to get only 49% more yards (2249 vs. 1502) on the season. His AY/A was 5.03. Dilfer's was 5.52. He threw way more and got way shittier results.

Playoffs: 4 GS, 35-73 (47.95%!), 590 yds, 8.08 y/a, 3 TD, 1 INT, 1 game over 100 passer rating; average rating of 83.7. Dilfer was better and had to play more games to win it to boot.

And, of course, he was then memorably cut by the Ravens after the season.
 

Ed Hillel

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He/she should have worded it like this: "Thank Buddha that the Pats found the GOAT in last year's draft, because this year's is slim pickings."

Is that better? Jeez Louise you Mac stans are sensitive.
Uh, it was just kind of apropos of nothing is all, seemed like odd phrasing. I didn't understand the comment in the context of the conversation.

Glad we worked all this out.
Those two TDs to Owen Daniels still piss me off, both total wobbling ducks. He was so open on both plays (hat tip Jamie Collins) that I could have made those throws.
They were both like 15-yard passes that looked like gave Peyton multiple hernias because of the effort he had to put in. One of them was on 3rd and long. Not a great thing.

Tangentially, I also remember that year in the playoffs against someone else Peyton gave himself up for a sack by falling to the ground, the defender ran by him, and then the refs let him get up and throw a big completion. Also not a great thing.
 
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DJnVa

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And you guys thought we were done with games when our QB ran it more than he threw it!
 

Granite Sox

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It was basically a bye week for Jones last night, at least physically. That can’t hurt on top of the real bye this week. Two weeks without getting hit much will be immense this time of year for a kid who will never have played this many games in a season. Bonus!
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I saw this table posted at another site. Handy compendium of rankings along different QB metrics.

Mac and Tua have both been rising up the board recently.

I haven't seen many Cardinals games this year so I have difficulty thinking about how good Kyler Murray actually might be. But statistically he has been having a monster year.

47099
 

wilked

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I saw this table posted at another site. Handy compendium of rankings along different QB metrics.

Mac and Tua have both been rising up the board recently.

I haven't seen many Cardinals games this year so I have difficulty thinking about how good Kyler Murray actually might be. But statistically he has been having a monster year.

View attachment 47099
4 rookies in there. It’s easy to find three of them…takes a little searching to find the fourth
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I've been thinking about doing this myself. Can you share where you got it from, assuming that it's being updated each week?
No problem. A poster on this forum has been updating the table weekly. There is an excel sheet at the bottom of his posts (with the actual values for each measure) that you can access as well.

Note: That forum has a ton of trash on it in general, but a few good posters too.
 
No problem. A poster on this forum has been updating the table weekly. There is an excel sheet at the bottom of his posts (with the actual values for each measure) that you can access as well.

Note: That forum has a ton of trash on it in general, but a few good posters too.
A quick look agrees with your last observation. Thanks for sharing.
 

Beomoose

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When Brady retires this year and moves into coaching after a year off and immediately takes the Lawrence led Jags to an improbable Super Bowl win, he'll get another Sportsman of the Year. Ho hum.

Give somebody else a chance.
When's he gonna have time to get Michigan it's NCAA Championship?