The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

[Eddie Jurak]

I don't understand the all or nothing view.

Mac is deeply messed up in a variety of different ways that all seem to be self-reinforcing but also are potentially fixable.

For a QB trying to work his way out of that state, I don't think having an OL that is an absolute trashfire is going to help. And that is what Mac has had to deal with over the past 2 weeks. Zappe did not when he was starting.

 

[Jimbodandy]

This thread is the new "Has Belichick Lost His Fastball".

 

[joe dokes]

This thread is the new "Has Belichick Lost His Fastball".

Mac Jones: "What's a fastball?"

 

[rodderick]

I enjoyed watching Zappe in his two games subbing for Jones and agree that he showed some nice pocket presence. However, being realistic, I think it is far more likely that he was drafted as a Hoyer replacement rather than a starter, As bad as Jones has been, he's still light years better than Cam, and if the defense and special teams stay at a high level, there are still enjoyable things to watch in Patriots games this season. As many others have observed, they are not going anywhere this season anyways, so they may as well make the best use of the time by obtaining resolution on the QB issue.

I think he's been 2020 Cam level for his last 12 starts when you factor in throwing and running, and that's with a much better supporting cast.

 

[DJnVa]

I think this goes back to being too deep in his own head and a loss of confidence. He's too busy thinking and not busy enough playing. He's struggling to go through his progressions because it appears he's not confident in doing so.

He did have the nice gainer to Henry over the middle later in the game which was good to see, but before then it was downright painful watching him try to go through his progressions.

Yep. The reason I remain mostly confident is that Jones has appeared to be a guy that can get through that. The mental part has always been a strength. Granted this is on a different level and it's possible that he just can't, but I think him bring in his own head and the very real OL issues is causing a lot of issues. Can they re-invent themselves during the bye? They can do team specific things as opposed to just focusing on the next opponent.

 

[JokersWildJIMED]

I don't understand the all or nothing view.

Mac is deeply messed up in a variety of different ways that all seem to be self-reinforcing but also are potentially fixable.

For a QB trying to work his way out of that state, I don't think having an OL that is an absolute trashfire is going to help. And that is what Mac has had to deal with over the past 2 weeks. Zappe did not when he was starting.

This may be true, but seems awfully convenient that the OL was horrible for the first three games, was terrific when Zappe played, and has been horrible the last two weeks. Same with the play calling / Patricia. Same with the receivers getting open. Folks like to point to how “terrible” the Lions and Browns are, which again may be correct, but this is the NFL and those teams have won games and every win is tough. It just seems that many in the media have agendas that fit a narrative that is anti-Patricia (and in a sense anti-BB) and de-facto pro Mac, who has arguably been the worst quarterback in the NFL this season by most every measure.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This may be true, but seems awfully convenient that the OL was horrible for the first three games, was terrific when Zappe played, and has been horrible the last two weeks. Same with the play calling / Patricia. Same with the receivers getting open. Folks like to point to how “terrible” the Lions and Browns are, which again may be correct, but this is the NFL and those teams have won games and every win is tough. It just seems that many in the media have agendas that fit a narrative that is anti-Patricia (and in a sense anti-BB) and de-facto pro Mac, who has arguably been the worst quarterback in the NFL this season by most every measure.

Andrews being out yesterday really hurt them, and Strange struggled to the point where he was benched. I think that aspect of this equation can't be emphasized enough.

 

[Justthetippett]

This may be true, but seems awfully convenient that the OL was horrible for the first three games, was terrific when Zappe played, and has been horrible the last two weeks. Same with the play calling / Patricia. Same with the receivers getting open. Folks like to point to how “terrible” the Lions and Browns are, which again may be correct, but this is the NFL and those teams have won games and every win is tough. It just seems that many in the media have agendas that fit a narrative that is anti-Patricia (and in a sense anti-BB) and de-facto pro Mac, who has arguably been the worst quarterback in the NFL this season by most every measure.

I agree with this. It’s a system and all the parts have to be operating. Zappe making quick decisions and getting the ball out helped the Oline and the receivers helped him, etc. If the timing is off or forced, everything looks clunky. We have the Bears game to actually compare same/same, and Zappe was functional while Mac was not.

 

[phineas gage]

I think he's been 2020 Cam level for his last 12 starts

'light years' was a bit too strong as a descriptive, so fair enough. However, I'm not in agreement that Jones has been Cam-level in futility (noted that other factors are not equal). He can at least throw the football, if not with particular strength (or accuracy). If Jones does plumb those depths in the games remaining this season, we will at least have our answer.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Let's be clear here, Zappe shouldn't play. If he's the next coming, we'll find out soon enough. Mac needs to play coming out of the bye week and likely the rest of the season. If Zappe is the answer, he'll get his chance.

There are three outcomes for Mac coming out of the bye week, 1) he continues to play mediocre football, just as he has, 2) he improves either slightly or significantly, or 3) he regresses either slightly or significantly. If it's 1 or 2 Mac should most certainly play, if it's 3 then it's up for debate.

I'm not sure he can regress much from where he is, so we're left with riding it out.

 

[ShaneTrot]

What really frightens me as a Pats fan is I have no confidence that if they get down by 10, Mac can bring them back. We were very spoiled for years.

 

[brandonchristensen]

So here's a question -- given a shitty OL, is it more dangerous to play:

1.) The guy who's showing poor pocket awareness and bad footwork, or...
2.) The guy who's only six feet tall and was continually getting passes batted down

I think Zappe brings at least as many problems for a line that can't give him a clean pocket.

Is something like this possible?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXmU1Z8PNXk

 

[DJnVa]

I agree with this. It’s a system and all the parts have to be operating. Zappe making quick decisions and getting the ball out helped the Oline and the receivers helped him, etc. If the timing is off or forced, everything looks clunky. We have the Bears game to actually compare same/same, and Zappe was functional while Mac was not.

Come on--Zappe was 9/16 with 2 INTs in the second half (and a fumble at end of first half). If that was serviceable you should be happy with Mac yesterday.

 

[Cotillion]

Is something like this possible?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXmU1Z8PNXk

https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening

It's a fascinating read

John Lovedale is feeling pretty good, despite the fact that he should not be walking right now. It’s a little after 9 a.m. on a hot Saturday morning in Las Vegas and he’s ambling through the Aria Resort & Casino with a pronounced limp, wincing as he throws his hips into wide semicircles and dragging his feet exactly where they need to be. The effect is like a Grand Theft Auto extra who’s just been sniped in the butt.

John is in his mid-40s and stands five feet eleven and a half. Big-hearted laugh. Built like a saguaro cactus. If you squint he kind of resembles a brolic Neil deGrasse Tyson. He’s in town to see his orthopedic surgeon, having arrived last night from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where he works as a network engineer for the government. He almost missed his flight and was in such a rush he forgot to bring the crutches he’s supposed to be using, but, again, he’s been feeling pretty good.

That John is on his feet at all is impressive—and probably foolish—considering that only eight months prior, he was five feet eight and a half. Back in September, he paid $75,000 for the agonizing privilege of having his legs surgically lengthened. That entailed having both his femurs broken, and adjustable metal nails inserted down their centers. Each nail is made of titanium, which is both flexible and sturdy, like bone, and about the size of a piccolo. The nails were extended one millimeter every day for about 90 days via a magnetic remote control. Once the broken bones heal, ta-da: a newer, taller John.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

This may be true, but seems awfully convenient that the OL was horrible for the first three games, was terrific when Zappe played, and has been horrible the last two weeks. Same with the play calling / Patricia. Same with the receivers getting open. Folks like to point to how “terrible” the Lions and Browns are, which again may be correct, but this is the NFL and those teams have won games and every win is tough. It just seems that many in the media have agendas that fit a narrative that is anti-Patricia (and in a sense anti-BB) and de-facto pro Mac, who has arguably been the worst quarterback in the NFL this season by most every measure.

A couple of points on that:

1. I wasn't commenting on the first 3 games. Detroit and Cleveland vs. NYJ and Indy. There's no comparison between the two in terms of Pats line play.
2. The distinction shows up in the running game as well.
3. Key personnel are, literally, different. Ferentz instead of Andrews. This week, Strange benched for Wynn at LG and Cajuste at RT.

I agree with this. It’s a system and all the parts have to be operating. Zappe making quick decisions and getting the ball out helped the Oline and the receivers helped him, etc. If the timing is off or forced, everything looks clunky. We have the Bears game to actually compare same/same, and Zappe was functional while Mac was not.

Zappe had quick success, then the Bears adjusted and shut him down for an entire half.

Zappe in first two possessions: 4-4, 97 yards, 1 TD, 1-1 in red zone.

Zappe in two-minute drill at end of first half and second half: 10-18, 88 yards, 2 INT, 1 fumble lost, 4 batted passes, only crossed midfield once (for two plays)

 

[joe dokes]

I think he's been 2020 Cam level for his last 12 starts when you factor in throwing and running, and that's with a much better supporting cast.

There was almost no realistic hope of Cam getting better. After 6 weeks or so, it was apparent that he was the same washed guy he was before he came to NE. I have a hard time taking seriously any similar conclusion about Jones today.

 

[tims4wins]

Right now the Patriots can win with Mac playing like he is. But they’ll have to be excellent in special teams and on defense, and be able to run the ball well also. That’s asking for a lot of things to go right.

And I’m as big a Mac supporter as this board has. He’s got to improve in a major way. I’m still of the long term view and am willing personally to give this process time. But right now, Mac isn’t playing very good football. Period.

This very much sums up my current view.

Let's be clear here, Zappe shouldn't play. If he's the next coming, we'll find out soon enough. Mac needs to play coming out of the bye week and likely the rest of the season. If Zappe is the answer, he'll get his chance.

There are three outcomes for Mac coming out of the bye week, 1) he continues to play mediocre football, just as he has, 2) he improves either slightly or significantly, or 3) he regresses either slightly or significantly. If it's 1 or 2 Mac should most certainly play, if it's 3 then it's up for debate.

I'm not sure he can regress much from where he is, so we're left with riding it out.

Seconded.

What really frightens me as a Pats fan is I have no confidence that if they get down by 10, Mac can bring them back. We were very spoiled for years.

So true. This year and last, the team is a wagon as a front running team when they get up 2 scores, but incapable of playing from behind. Coming back from 10-3 against the Jets felt really improbable. Thank goodness for that roughing call.

 

[rslm]

Let's be clear here, Zappe shouldn't play. If he's the next coming, we'll find out soon enough. Mac needs to play coming out of the bye week and likely the rest of the season. If Zappe is the answer, he'll get his chance.

There are three outcomes for Mac coming out of the bye week, 1) he continues to play mediocre football, just as he has, 2) he improves either slightly or significantly, or 3) he regresses either slightly or significantly. If it's 1 or 2 Mac should most certainly play, if it's 3 then it's up for debate.

I'm not sure he can regress much from where he is, so we're left with riding it out.

At this point I'd argue mediocre football might be a pretty good improvement. I don't post often and I'm certainly not an expert in Xs and Os, but to my untrained eye Mac has looked brutal. Doesn't step up, rarely "slides" in the pocket. Way too often he panics or gives up on the play because he's missed the open guy and can't get through the progressions.

 

[Rico Guapo]

At this point I'd argue mediocre football might be a pretty good improvement. I don't post often and I'm certainly not an expert in Xs and Os, but to my untrained eye Mac has looked brutal. Doesn't step up, rarely "slides" in the pocket. Way too often he panics or gives up on the play because he's missed the open guy and can't get through the progressions.

He's panicking because the line sucks and gives him no time or space to throw on most plays.

 

[DJnVa]

Some numbers I found interesting.

Throwing the ball, under 2.5 seconds:

2021: 73.3% completion, 96.6 rating (9.1 ypc)
2022: 64.5% completion, 74.1 rating (7.6 ypc)

Throwing the ball, over 2.5 seconds"

2021: 60.3% completion, 87.1 rating (13.4 ypc)
2022: 68.9% completion, 86.3 rating (14.6 ypc)


In 2021, 56% of his passes were released in under 2.5 seconds, in 2022 it's 64%, a pretty hefty increase.

So, to me, in 2021, his quick hit plays, in a different offense, he nailed--he knew where to go and when to go there and it worked. In 2022 he's obviously unsure where to go if he doesn't have as much time (due to OL or play calls) and it's clearly not working. When he gets time this season, he's been better. They have to find a way to mesh the 2 if possible.

And i'm not sure how profootballreference categorizes RPO plays but last season they had him 28/32 with a 108.9 rating.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

He's panicking because the line sucks and gives him no time or space to throw on most plays.

It's ridiculous to put his poor play entirely on the OL and it's impossible to parse what's happening between the two positions. What's evident is that they are both playing very poorly together and that it needs to change.

As others have said, it's clear that Mac is not elevating the play of ANYONE around him right now and has not shown the ability to do that in two seasons (no matter how good you think he played last year).

I hope the OL comes out of the bye week humming so we can evaluate Mac independently. Right now it's impossible.

 

[tims4wins]

This reminds me way too much of the 1999-2000 Pats with Bledsoe. It's hard to say how much is on the QB and how much is on the line, but the likely answer is that it is a combination. Drew took 100 sacks over those two years.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Charting pressures is relatively easy. Hits and sacks are definable. Hurries are definable too but you might get some minor disagreements from time to time. PFF tracks pressures as do beat writers. You rarely see a difference and if so it's just 1 or 2 hurries.

Performance under pressure is a descriptive statistic and not necessarily predictive. That being said Mac has been garbage under pressure this year.

Of the 41 QB who have been under pressure in at least 20% of their dropbacks Mac ranks 27th out of 41 for being under pressure where 41st is the LEAST amount of pressure. Offensive line play around the league isn't great. A lot of QBs have to deal with pressure and MOST have to deal with it more than Mac does. Now granted the last two weeks he has been under pressure the 10th and 12th most so he's had to deal with it more but he hasn't risen to the occasion.

If you combine weeks 8 and 9 Jones has been under pressure the 12th (of 36) most at 38.5%. He has the 10th worst yards/attempt. He has the 8th highest turnover worthy play rate, 6.5% (again if you don't like this stat please just ignore it). Of his 30 pressures he was sacked 10 times which is the 7th highest rate. He has had a time to throw of 3.40 seconds which is 16th lowest (middle of the pack).

When he IS kept clean he has the tied for 2nd lowest in the league yards per attempt only in front of Justin Fields at 5.4 yards/attempt.

He's not seeing the field well. He's locking onto guys. He's also not performing well even considering his pressure or lack of pressure.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Charting pressures is relatively easy. Hits and sacks are definable. Hurries are definable too but you might get some minor disagreements from time to time. PFF tracks pressures as do beat writers. You rarely see a difference and if so it's just 1 or 2 hurries.

Performance under pressure is a descriptive statistic and not necessarily predictive. That being said Mac has been garbage under pressure this year.

Of the 41 QB who have been under pressure in at least 20% of their dropbacks Mac ranks 27th out of 41 for being under pressure where 41st is the LEAST amount of pressure. Offensive line play around the league isn't great. A lot of QBs have to deal with pressure and MOST have to deal with it more than Mac does. Now granted the last two weeks he has been under pressure the 10th and 12th most so he's had to deal with it more but he hasn't risen to the occasion.

If you combine weeks 8 and 9 Jones has been under pressure the 12th (of 36) most at 38.5%. He has the 10th worst yards/attempt. He has the 8th highest turnover worthy play rate, 6.5% (again if you don't like this stat please just ignore it). Of his 30 pressures he was sacked 10 times which is the 7th highest rate. He has had a time to throw of 3.40 seconds which is 16th lowest (middle of the pack).

When he IS kept clean he has the tied for 2nd lowest in the league yards per attempt only in front of Justin Fields at 5.4 yards/attempt.

He's not seeing the field well. He's locking onto guys. He's also not performing well even considering his pressure or lack of pressure.

Wow, great post. This is context I had no idea existed.

EDIT: does this indicate that the OL has been league average?

 

[E5 Yaz]

When he IS kept clean he has the tied for 2nd lowest in the league yards per attempt only in front of Justin Fields at 5.4 yards/attempt.

This is amusing for so many inside baseball reasons

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Shaquille Leonard was yelling out the Patriots play calls. I’m no Mac fan, but the coaching and predicability on offense isn’t helping.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I should note my stats on his Y/A under pressure vs not were from weeks 8 and 9 combined. Here is the whole season:

Under pressure: 4.5 yards per attempt, 35th/41.
Kept clean: 7.5 yards per attempt, 19th/41.

So he's clearly doing better under no pressure minus the last two games.

quick edit: all the usual volatility and SSS issues apply here.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Then there are counter narratives like this:

View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1589710643313389568?s=46&t=TpxdN_RoYIlaeoukquc1lA


This kind of thinking kills me - the player can’t be absolved of mistakes diagnosing defenses or delivering accurate balls at the rate of an NFL caliber stating QB. Film don’t lie.

And one of this take’s implied ideas, that the team isn’t catering the offense to Mac’s preferences, is belied by the fact that they run a TON of shotgun looks with Mac and almost no under center play action concepts.

There are certainly problems with the offense that are unrelated to Mac’s performance; it isn’t a binary issue (Mac v everything else). But get out of here, Dan.

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

I should note my stats on his Y/A under pressure vs not were from weeks 8 and 9 combined. Here is the whole season:

Under pressure: 4.5 yards per attempt, 35th/41.
Kept clean: 7.5 yards per attempt, 19th/41.

So he's clearly doing better under no pressure minus the last two games.

Very interesting. After watching so many games this weekend it seems clear to me that quarterbacks in general are under more and more pressure. This is why I think a mobile quarterback that can avoid and run out of the pressure is so important in this NFL. Allen, Mahomes, Tua, Lamar, just give you a significant advantage. I realize they don't grow on trees but the Pats had their chance at Lamar and could have probably moved up in 2021 for someone with that potential like Justin Fields.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Very interesting. After watching so many games this weekend it seems clear to me that quarterbacks in general are under more and more pressure. This is why I think a mobile quarterback that can avoid and run out of the pressure is so important in this NFL. Allen, Mahomes, Tua, Lamar, just give you a significant advantage. I realize they don't grow on trees but the Pats had their chance at Lamar and could have probably moved up in 2021 for someone with that potential like Justin Fields.

Be Still my heart

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Taking Lamar means no SB53 win.

Fields was likely on their radar but they took the best QB available to them when they drafted at 15.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Taking Lamar means no SB53 win.

Fields was likely on their radar but they took the best QB available to them when they drafted at 15.

Disagree with both statements. 1) You can't conclusively say that they don't win SB53 without Sony. Maybe they take a different RB later on or maybe they trade for a vet or sign a guy post draft. Sony wasn't that good in 2018 he just had a decent run at the end and frankly a lot of RBs could have performed like that behind the blocking he had. If Sony had gotten a lot more than the yards blocked for him then sure, fine, I would agree but he didn't which suggests he could have been replaced by a different back.
2) Fields had the worst processing of the top 5 guys and the Lombardis of the world (as well as team reporters) have indicated Fields was off their radar because he his timing, rhythm, anticipation, reading the defense, and decision making were not at levels they were at all comfortable with. The reports they were interested in him were just smoke screens. Of course you can never know this for sure but I think it's true.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Very interesting. After watching so many games this weekend it seems clear to me that quarterbacks in general are under more and more pressure. This is why I think a mobile quarterback that can avoid and run out of the pressure is so important in this NFL. Allen, Mahomes, Tua, Lamar, just give you a significant advantage. I realize they don't grow on trees but the Pats had their chance at Lamar and could have probably moved up in 2021 for someone with that potential like Justin Fields.

Lamar is a fascinating example. I think if you pick him in 2018, you’ve gotta commit yourself to developing him like Baltimore did. Which means reconceptualizing your offense and actually playing him.

That wasn’t gonna happen until 2020, unless, of course, Tom shot his way out of town even earlier because they picked another successor with a different playing style/skill set and started introducing concepts that better fit that player. Baltimore had no qualms about moving off Flacco more or less at the first sign of trouble because, well, he’s Joe Flacco.

I don’t have a strong feeling either way on passing on Lamar (plus, who knew he would be an MVP level player at the time?). It’s an interesting what-if.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Disagree with both statements. 1) You can't conclusively say that they don't win SB53 without Sony. Maybe they take a different RB later on or maybe they trade for a vet or sign a guy post draft. Sony wasn't that good in 2018 he just had a decent run at the end and frankly a lot of RBs could have performed like that behind the blocking he had. If Sony had gotten a lot more than the yards blocked for him then sure, fine, I would agree but he didn't which suggests he could have been replaced by a different back.
2) Fields had the worst processing of the top 5 guys and the Lombardis of the world (as well as team reporters) have indicated Fields was off their radar because he his timing, rhythm, anticipation, reading the defense, and decision making were not at levels they were at all comfortable with. The reports they were interested in him were just smoke screens. Of course you can never know this for sure but I think it's true.

1) Sony averaged 100+ yards a game in the postseason and had 6 TDs. You cannot point to a hypothetical and say "Oh anyone could have done that." No. They took him, he performed like that, they won the SB. Lamar would never have seen the field. That was a championship-level pick. Without Sony they do not win the Super Bowl.

2) I'm obviously not privy to their evaluations but I would have been shocked if Fields WASN'T on their radar. He'd have to be, because it was very possible that Mac got picked before Fields did.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Dan has hit the nail completely on the head.
View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1589719583598202881?s=20&t=GWC0zlV09hzBZ8qSiX4_TA

 

[jsinger121]

The coaching and the talent stink around Mac. Plain and simple.

 

[jezza1918]

1) Sony averaged 100+ yards a game in the postseason and had 6 TDs. You cannot point to a hypothetical and say "Oh anyone could have done that." No. They took him, he performed like that, they won the SB. Lamar would never have seen the field. That was a championship-level pick. Without Sony they do not win the Super Bowl.

2) I'm obviously not privy to their evaluations but I would have been shocked if Fields WASN'T on their radar. He'd have to be, because it was very possible that Mac got picked before Fields did.

Ive had this argument with friends so many times the last few years it hurts. It's impossible to prove that someone else could've done it, because it didnt actually happen. What did happen was Sony had a 3 game post season run that likely would've resulted in him winning the NFLs version of the Conn Smythe Trophy, if they had one. And on top of those 6tds in 3 games, running it out of the shadow of their own endzone after the Gilmore INT was huge as well.
Back on thread topic, anyone trying to make the pats offense a THIS or THAT issue should be laughed out of the room. Or, in Orlovsky's case, the back of the endzone.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

The coaching and the talent stink around Mac. Plain and simple.

Can't both be true that those things stink and also Mac is a garbage QB? This isn't an either/or situation and Dan is absolving Mac of all of his terrible decision making.

 

[Gash Prex]

Dan has hit the nail completely on the head.
View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1589719583598202881?s=20&t=GWC0zlV09hzBZ8qSiX4_TA

I'm sorry sir you are in the in the wrong thread - there is no place for context or analysis beyond "Mac sucks"

Can't both be true that those things stink and also Mac is a garbage QB? This isn't an either/or situation and Dan is absolving Mac of all of his terrible decision making.

Of course both be true - but what the league has shown this year in abundance is that when you have a garbage O-line, weapons and/or coaching, even the league MVP will look like a trash tier QB so its extremely difficult to parse right now for the Pats. Almost all detailed film analysis I've seen this year have been far more positive about Mac and blaming most of it on the O-line and play calling.

 

[joe dokes]

I think this is where ESPN turbocharges the stupidity. They have exQBs, exCoaches and exPlayers not QB on staff, and each can take an assigned view that their constituency is 100% not at fault. YOU MUST CHOOSE!! The idea that all of them bear some blame for the offense would get them fired.

 

[Arroyoyo]

[

Dan has hit the nail completely on the head.
View: https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1589719583598202881?s=20&t=GWC0zlV09hzBZ8qSiX4_TA

Orlovsky also spent virtually all of 2021 treating Mac like he’s the next Tom Brady so I can see why he’d be quick to want to defend his 2021 hot takes. This, despite clear evidence (as posted above) he isn’t pressured nearly as badly as many *assumed* he is and the endless tape we have of wide open receivers not even being looked at in 2022.

If he lights up the league in 2023 I’ll quickly come here and say I was wrong. But wow, we really do live in an upside world these days where you’re seemingly crazy for pointing out what your eyes can clearly see.

 

[jsinger121]

Literally the entire blame on Mac’s regression should be pointed at Belichick for changing the offense, hiring two bozos to coach offense along with having a shitty offensive line. It’s a recipe for failure. Mac might suck but putting him in position to fail is right on Belichick.

 

[tims4wins]

Literally the entire blame on Mac’s regression should be pointed at Belichick for changing the offense, hiring two bozos to coach offense along with having a shitty offensive line. It’s a recipe for failure. Mac might suck but putting him in position to fail is right on Belichick.

He HAD to know that Josh was going to leave at some point, and I get they had brain drain with other offensive staff, but the lack of succession plan there is really head scratching.

 

[Justthetippett]

Literally the entire blame on Mac’s regression should be pointed at Belichick for changing the offense, hiring two bozos to coach offense along with having a shitty offensive line. It’s a recipe for failure. Mac might suck but putting him in position to fail is right on Belichick.

Maybe BB can be faulted for not having an adequate McDaniels succession plan in place, which has been his practice, but Mac’s struggles predate any of that. At this point I think it’s on Mac to show whether he has it or not. If he was merely average this year, that would probably be enough to get them a playoff game.

 

[E5 Yaz]

He HAD to know that Josh was going to leave at some point, and I get they had brain drain with other offensive staff, but the lack of succession plan there is really head scratching.

Was O'Brien (not that he would have fixed everything, but ..) ever really in the mix to come aboard, or was the idea of getting Patricia and Judge on the cheap just too enticing to ignore?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Why must it be all Mac's fault and Zappe a Pro-Bowler waiting in the wings that BB is too stupid to notice... or 100% that Mac is doing fine but for the shambles of a team and system the Pats have put around him?

Mac has regressed considerably in year 2. The Pats have had a significant hand in that regression. Does't mean it isn't him out there playing badly.

 

[joe dokes]

But wow, we really do live in an upside world these days where you’re seemingly crazy for pointing out what your eyes can clearly see.

I think you're conflating "what weve seen" with "what will definitely happen in the future."

 

[rodderick]

There was almost no realistic hope of Cam getting better. After 6 weeks or so, it was apparent that he was the same washed guy he was before he came to NE. I have a hard time taking seriously any similar conclusion about Jones today.

Good thing that's not what I said then. I was responding to the statement that Jones, for all his struggles, has been a significantly better QB than Cam was. He hasn't.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Good thing that's not what I said then. I was responding to the statement that Jones, for all his struggles, has been a significantly better QB than Cam was. He hasn't.

You saw something with Jones' platform last week and mentioned it in the gamethread. Are you able to elaborate? Are people who have experience with mechanics are seeing something wrong with his motion?

 

[StupendousMan]

You saw something with Jones' platform last week and mentioned it in the gamethread. Are you able to elaborate? Are people who have experience with mechanics are seeing something wrong with his motion?

Not an expert, but he frequently throws the ball with most of his weight supported on his back foot. Sometimes, he is actively moving backward when he releases the ball. That's not an good way to get high velocity. This is sometimes a consequence of the poor blocking by the offensive line, sometimes a result of his failure to move up in the pocket, sometimes due to his skittishness.