I think their best bet is to play spread with 4 WR and Vereen, ditch the TE entirely. What do orhers think?
The offense post Gronk
- Thread starter tims4wins
- Start date
At this point they need to hope Boyce, Thompkins and Dobson will be healthy the rest of the season and have gotten all of their "rookie jitters" out of their system. We also need to hope McDaniels runs an offense that will allow the rookies to think less and react more.
They need a pantheon-level stretch from Brady in January, and see what happens.
They've lost too much talent at key spots to do otherwise. It's pretty amazing they're 10-3, with only one of those losses being noncompetitive.
They've lost too much talent at key spots to do otherwise. It's pretty amazing they're 10-3, with only one of those losses being noncompetitive.
I'm ok with Develin, either out of the backfield, or as an H-back. But I don't really want to see too much Mulligan or any FA pickups. Maybe a good time to try and convert Blount in practice, too?
I'm unsure about Hooman
I'm unsure about Hooman
The key is Ryan Mallett. And a time machine. Belichick just has to shoot back, pre trade deadline, and complete the Mallett for Larry Fitz deal that almost happened every day the past year.
Gronk out now is certainly a major loss, but less of a loss than the first few weeks of the season when Amendola was out and Vereen was out.
Meh one play, as important as it was, does not give me confidence that he will be a difference maker at any point in this season.NortheasternPJ said:
I would love to be proved wrong though.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
You realize that Edelman had replaced Welker's production this season right? In fact, Edelman has more catches and yards. Amendola has missed 4 games and been very limited in others. If Welker's production is your benchmark for Amendola, you aren't being fair.
4WR at a fast tempo is probably our best bet for moving the ball and putting up points. At least until Svitek gets Brady killed.
We should be able to beat our first round opponent without Gronk. Then we'll need a vintage performance from Brady plus some help from the football Gods to beat Denver on the road. Then anything can happen in the Super Bowl, especially if its played in really shitty weather in New Jersey.
We should be able to beat our first round opponent without Gronk. Then we'll need a vintage performance from Brady plus some help from the football Gods to beat Denver on the road. Then anything can happen in the Super Bowl, especially if its played in really shitty weather in New Jersey.
Dogman2 said:
I'm not sure i follow the logic that if Edelman is productive that means it doesn't matter if Amendola is or not. Amendola was injured and I don't hold that against him. Even the games on his return I understand he wasn't full speed. But he now looks healthy, even if I'm sure he's not 100%, but he simply hasn't been getting open.
Tony C said:
Per game averages:
Amendola: 4.5 catches, 50 yards, .2 TD's
Edelman: 5.3 catches, 54 yards, .3 TD's
Welker: 5.2 catches. 55 yards, .7 TD's
I never said it doesn't matter. I said T&A wasn't being fair to compare the two because of his injuries. To date, Amendola has 41 catches, 450 yards and 2 TD's. So, if he didn't miss any games and we used his averages, he would have about 60 catches, 650-700 yards and 3-4 TD's. That's a productive player and not that far off what Edelman and Welker has done.
I have no idea where you are getting the "he isn't getting open" thing.
I'm not comparing amendola to Edelman or welker. You brought that up. I'm simply saying that now with gronk out they need amendola to be more of an impact player. Maybe that's not fair or unreasonable, but amendola has not been a difference maker for this team (understood that he has been limited due to injury).Dogman2 said:
Now would be a good time for him to have some big games is all.
They need to get out to better starts. Having to come back like this every week isn't sustainable. With 2 tough road games coming up, it's imperative that they get their heads out of their asses earlier.
If they don't go up-tempo, they're making a mistake. It doesn't mean they abandon the run either. If you watch Philly, you can play fast and still pound the ball.
If they don't go up-tempo, they're making a mistake. It doesn't mean they abandon the run either. If you watch Philly, you can play fast and still pound the ball.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
You are absolutely right because the defense is not getting materially better.
There is an insane level of knee jerk protection around Amendola because people think that if he somehow falls short, that reflects poorly on the Pats brass. Same folks would be insisting that Welker and Brady MUST step it up -- notwithstanding the fact that the o-line is not elite and would be cratered by either defense we saw on the field late this afternoon.
Huh? Who is this crowd knee jerk protecting Amendola? Losing Welker basically hasn't hurt yet for a number of reasons, primarily edelmans emergence. Amendola has been OK, was great in the opener and hasn't been back in a big role in the offense post injury. Seemed like Edelman, Vereen, and Gronk were the primary targets. He'll need to do more now, but the Welker/Amendola switch hasn't been in like the top ten of concerns for the team so far this year (although I do think the team expected more production from Amendola)
FWIW, Amendola leads all Patriot WRs (I.e. not including Vereen or Gronk) in both DYAR and DVOA. No idea how he is ahead of Edelman - like others here, I thought he had been relatively ineffective for the past few weeks - but worth keeping in mind.dcmissle said:
dcmissle said:
Is there a single person who thinks (a) Amendola has lived up to his contract or (b) that at this point of their deals Amendola has outperformed Welker?
It might have been a smart move at the time. It hasn't worked out yet.
Shelterdog said:
I don't believe so, and that is my point. The were allusions above to it being "unfair" to expect miracles from Amendola at this point. Maybe so, but here are the realities as I see them.
Whatever slim chance there was of winning the SB went down the tubes this afternoon. That is obviously no reflection on the HC or QB. I believe this has been BB's finest season, along with 2001 and 2008. Considering the circumstances, it might be Brady's finest season ever.
But if we are going to play a pretend game that the Pats remain viable to win this year's SB, then Amendola has to step up hugely, however "unfair" that might be. Because the Seahawks or 49ers are going to laugh at Boyce, Thomkins and Dobson. Actually, they won't have time to laugh -- their d-lines will get to Brady first.
Amendola and Vereen have to carry the load, and you can expect any thinking opponent to take Vereen out of the game.
BTW, I'm not sure the OL is the problem people think it is. A number of the recent sacks have been on play-action plays. The protection schemes are always a little weird on those, with most of the line simulating run action and usually one player coming to clean up the backside. Sometimes the end result is Wendell or somebody having to come from the middle of the line to clean up an unblocked edge rusher, with predictable results. These plays look like Brady is just dead-to-rights right away (and he is), but it isn't always on the O-line; sometimes it's a scheme thing.
Super Nomario said:
They hit paydirt sometimes, but kicking guards out to pick up ends is a risky proposition. It's great from a deception perspective (i.e., the safeties/LB might react to the pulling guard), but it's a tough pass block for the guard to make. Mankins whiffed on one today, for example.
Yeah. And when I watch that live, I think "WTF Mankins!" But then if I watch on replay / tape, I realize he had a near-impossible assignment.Mystic Merlin said:
(Which isn't even to say it's necessarily a bad playcall or blocking scheme; sometimes the other team guesses right on those deception plays)
The up-tempo, spread offense combo does feel like it maximizes offense/scoring potential, especially if Vereen is in there to add some play flexibility. However, one of the challenges with that offense is that drives can be very quick, and this defense is not all that well situated to take the extra possessions. While on net today (post injuries) I'm not sure it is worse than last couple years, it is worse against the run, and that creates some real time of possession risks.
I wonder if the offense becomes more run-heavy, with an extra OL effectively playing TE, and spreads out and goes up-tempo opportunistically---for example, after a successful 3rd down conversion the up-tempo runs until it stalls---rather than as a base set.
I wonder if the offense becomes more run-heavy, with an extra OL effectively playing TE, and spreads out and goes up-tempo opportunistically---for example, after a successful 3rd down conversion the up-tempo runs until it stalls---rather than as a base set.
The notion that Amendola has had an impact worthy of his contract and the assumptions implicit in that contract is a head-scratcher, to say the least. He hasn't been terrible when healthy, but on no planet has he been an impact player. Heck, just compared to the previous year in 11 games versus 8 he had virtually twice as many receptions last year (averaged a half yard less per catch, though), and that was with Sam Bradford throwing to him rather than Tom Brady.
He'll definitely need to step up if the Pats are to survive Gronk's absence.
He'll definitely need to step up if the Pats are to survive Gronk's absence.
The notion that Amendola has had an impact worthy of his contract and the assumptions implicit in that contract is a head-scratcher, to say the least. He hasn't been terrible when healthy, but on no planet has he been an impact player. Heck, just compared to the previous year in 11 games versus 8 he had virtually twice as many receptions last year (averaged a half yard less per catch, though), and that was with Sam Bradford throwing to him rather than Tom Brady.
He'll definitely need to step up if the Pats are to survive Gronk's absence.
other than a dcmissle strawman nobody thinks Amendola has been anything but a disappointment so far.
He'll definitely need to step up if the Pats are to survive Gronk's absence.
other than a dcmissle strawman nobody thinks Amendola has been anything but a disappointment so far.
Brady really needs to step up more as well. He has his 2nd lowest completion % of his career and while the offensive line is certainly not doing him any favors at all, he still has throw too many poor passes this year. The hall of famer needs to raise his game if the Patriots are to win in the playoffs.
I don't, considering he has torn hip muscles - likely he's not as slippery as in the past but I've been pretty impressed by his hands. I have no reason to think he won't continue to contribute to this offense going forward this season and especially next season.Shelterdog said:
I think they should just set the Gilette Stadium scoreboard to always say that it's the second half.
Shelterdog said:
Jesus fucking Christ, I will explain again why Welker was never going to come back, thanks to the hubris of Welker's agent.
The Pats wanted him back, and they wanted him back in a contract level that was what they thought was fair. When Welker's agent asked for the moon and stars, they told him to go fuck himself and signed Amendola. Welker, realizing he was fucked in the ass, signed for what the Pats basically offered.
It was a smart move then. It was a smart move now. It hasn't worked out because Amendola was hurt and because there was no way that Welker was going to come back after his agent asked for $30M dollars. For once, this wasn't the Pats trying to nickel and dime a free agent, this was an agent fucking up. Welker could very well have come back, and the Pats called his bluff and signed someone else.
Amendola may not have lived up this contract and Welker has outperformed him, but there's simply NO WAY anyone can blame the Pats for choosing to sign Amendola over Welker after the shit Welker's agent pulled.
What the fuck are you even talking about?Sportsbstn said:
Brady's literally the last thing I'm concerned about on this team.
CaptainLaddie said:
I understand all of this. Simmer down.
At this point the Amendola move hasn't been a good signing because because he's sucked due to injuries. If he starts knocking out 100 catch 15 game seasons, fine, he's redeemed the deal.
Signing Edelman is in retrospect a brilliant move, by the way, which is why Amendola's travails aren't that big a deal.
Finishing in the RZ will likely be the biggest challenge. They showed us all those stats yesterday about how Gronk improves the offense and dramatically improves the RZ offense. His size, his ability, and TB's comfort Im sure all factor into this.
The uptempo offense tends to get bogged down in the very short field and the rookies are improving, but still need some work on the precise routes it seems.
Develin has demonstrated the ability to catch, will he be used more as a TE type role??
More ground and pound with Blount?
Vereen out of the backfield and isolating him in more 1v1 in the flat to see if he can run it past the Lb?
The uptempo offense tends to get bogged down in the very short field and the rookies are improving, but still need some work on the precise routes it seems.
Develin has demonstrated the ability to catch, will he be used more as a TE type role??
More ground and pound with Blount?
Vereen out of the backfield and isolating him in more 1v1 in the flat to see if he can run it past the Lb?