The Red Sox have fired Chaim Bloom

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Rovin Romine

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The narrative is that relying on Chris Sale at any point after 2019 was a foolish choice.
I think that's a separate and quasi-valid issue.

2021 - Sale made it back from TJ more or less on schedule and was as effective as one might reasonably hope for. Going into 2022, they were clearly were relying on Sale to contribute significantly.

2022 was a series of fluke injuries. Going into 2023, he hadn't pitched significant innings, and his mechanical injuries should have been vetted internally, with some plan to address them.

2023 really seems to have been mild injury, and moderate ineffectiveness. So to the extent they were relying on him in 2023, the question becomes, "How much and for what?" Secondarily, "If not for all that much, then what was the plan?" And there, I think we have to look at Whitlock and Houck. And those same questions should be asked.
 

chawson

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I'm agreeing with you! The point of my comment is that the FanGraphs piece is pure trash.
Oh, whoops! Sorry. Yeah, Jaffe is pretty much only good for HoF stuff.

It just immediately reminded me of that kind of bombshell line in the Athletic piece. Maybe that was reported before, but it was certainly news to me that Dombrowski originated the Mookie trade.
 

Rasputin

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So there are a dozen games left in the season without a frontline starter where there were tons of opportunities to find out the answers to those questions. And I don't think we're any closer to knowing than we were at this point last year. Whitlock still looks like someone who could start or relieve, but always gets injured. Houck still struggles after the 5th inning. Crawford still mixes brilliance with utter garbage. Bringing in someone who was better than all of them to give 180 innings wouldn't have hurt anyone else's chances to help the team and may have resulted in a playoff appearance.
We have answered a shit ton of questions since last year.

Is Brayan Bello capable of being a top starter, maybe even an ace? Yes
Is Connor Wong capable of being an every day catcher? Yes
Is Triston Casas capable of hitting at this level? Yes
Is Josh Winckowski capable of pitching at this level? Yes
Is Kutter Crawford capable of pitching at this level? Yes
Can Tanner Houck be a starter at this level? Yes
Can Whitlock be a starter at this level? No

Those questions have been replaced with questions about Casas' defense, Rafaela's offense, Wilyer Abreu, and other things I'm missing right now.

We know a lot more than we did a year ago.
 

8slim

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Again, who?

Flaherty (-0.6 bWAR)
Lorenzen (-0.4 bWAR)
Montgomery (0.8 bWAR, would have cost equivalent of Rafaela/Yorke/Whitlock—we don't have a FV 50 SP prospect like Roby—and Meidroth)
Scherzer (1.0 bWAR; would have cost Yorke at least; out for season)
Verlander (0.5 bWAR, NTC, cost the FV equivalent of Rafaela and Alcantara)
Lynn (0.1 bWAR, cost the FV equivalent of Wikelman Gonzalez and Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz, plus whoever our version of Trayce Thompson is)
Yarbrough (0.4 bWAR, used by L.A. in relief, cost two unranked prospects)
Civale (0.3 bWAR, would have cost one of Bleis/Rafaela/Yorke)

Would any of those made you happy?
Sure, throw a dart and give me one.

Look, I appreciate that you provide these lists. I do. But I don’t want you to do the work to answer me because I’m just going to say the same thing as I have been…

Finding someone was Bloom’s job.

I feel like what you keep telling me is, essentially, there was absolutely nothing he could do. Not during this season. Not last off-season. Not during the previous season. Not the previous off-season. Etc.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like you’re saying Bloom did everything correct. And yet here he is without a job. It doesn’t square.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Sure, throw a dart and give me one.

Look, I appreciate that you provide these lists. I do. But I don’t want you to do the work to answer me because I’m just going to say the same thing as I have been…

Finding someone was Bloom’s job.

I feel like what you keep telling me is, essentially, there was absolutely nothing he could do. Not during this season. Not last off-season. Not during the previous season. Not the previous off-season. Etc.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like you’re saying Bloom did everything correct. And yet here he is without a job. It doesn’t square.
Bloom could have done everything completely differently and still not have a job right now. That's a really fucking boring conversation to have. The question that you refuse to try to answer (which sucks all the potential fun out of this discussion) is what could he have done to keep his job? "Something else" isn't really a constructive answer.
 

JM3

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Sure, throw a dart and give me one.

Look, I appreciate that you provide these lists. I do. But I don’t want you to do the work to answer me because I’m just going to say the same thing as I have been…

Finding someone was Bloom’s job.

I feel like what you keep telling me is, essentially, there was absolutely nothing he could do. Not during this season. Not last off-season. Not during the previous season. Not the previous off-season. Etc.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like you’re saying Bloom did everything correct. And yet here he is without a job. It doesn’t square.
I mean, it legitimately could make sense to fire him for PR reasons even if he did do everything perfectly. But I don't think he did.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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With the Red Sox amazing farm system and lousy pitching staff, it seems possible that there may have been a trade he could have made. Team had assets and needs, find a match with another team.

Of course, we can now say the team was so bad that no few moves would have mattered- but that’s not really much of a defense for lack of action. The team had a clear need for a long time- and did nothing. If the idea is that nothing could have been done, that’s fine, but it’s not one that seems to be shared by Bloom’s bosses.
 

chawson

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With the Red Sox amazing farm system and lousy pitching staff, it seems possible that there may have been a trade he could have made. Team had assets and needs, find a match with another team.

Of course, we can now say the team was so bad that no few moves would have mattered- but that’s not really much of a defense for lack of action. The team had a clear need for a long time- and did nothing. If the idea is that nothing could have been done, that’s fine, but it’s not one that seems to be shared by Bloom’s bosses.
Because for a long time, it genuinely didn't seem like we needed help.

On July 31st, here's what our pitching staff's numbers looked like:

Paxton - 3.58 xFIP
Sale - 3.64
Houck - 3.84
Murphy - 3.87 (in bulk relief)
Pivetta - 3.88
Whitlock - 3.89
Bello - 4.04
Crawford - 4.18
Kluber - 5.81

From May 15th until July 31st, that above group (excluding Kluber) put up a 3.40 ERA. Mid-May was when Pivetta was joined the bullpen, Kluber was bumped from the rotation, Paxton joined the rotation and Bello had put his April struggles with the longball behind him.

From the time Kluber was bumped through the trade deadline, the Red Sox staff as a whole was 5th in MLB in ERA, 7th in xFIP, 7th in fWAR. Those numbers don't include Pivetta's dominant stretch in bulk relief (2.23 ERA, 3.09 xFIP in 48.1 IP from when he became a reliever through July 31st.) Murphy, too, had a 1.59 ERA from his call-up to July 31st.

You can say the FO "did nothing" at the deadline, or you can say they bet on the guys we had (and we bet on the defense improving after Kiké left short). Factoring the list of starting pitchers traded at the deadline (and their cost) that I posted above, I don't really think that seems like a foolish bet. It feels like selective memory to say now that the whole thing was flawed in its design. Some of these guys were pitching really well, and considering the amount of team control we have on many of them, it's seems aligned with the team's best interests, to let them succeed.

For context, here are what some other teams rotations looked like from 5/15 to 7/31:

Atlanta
Strider - 2.80 xFIP
Morton - 3.97
Elder - 4.55
Soroka - 4.87
Schuster - 5.74
Smith-Shawver - 5.88

Houston
Brown - 3.07 xFIP
Valdez - 3.54
France - 4.52
Bielak - 4.83
Javier - 6.05

Los Angeles
Kershaw - 3.48 xFIP
Grove - 3.88
Miller - 3.90
Syndergaard - 4.64
Gonsolin - 5.27
Urias - 5.69
Sheehan 5.88
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like you’re saying Bloom did everything correct. And yet here he is without a job. It doesn’t square.
One thing I think people can agree about Bloom is that if he did make any errors, he didn't make any that would set the franchise back a few years (at least other than coming in last 3 out of 4 years, which can't be undone).

Just because people may agree with overall thought process doesn't mean that he shouldn't have been fired. He took the (IMO) most difficult path to team building and just happened not to hit enough times to keep his job. C'est la guerre.
 

Myt1

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Bloom could have done everything completely differently and still not have a job right now. That's a really fucking boring conversation to have. The question that you refuse to try to answer (which sucks all the potential fun out of this discussion) is what could he have done to keep his job? "Something else" isn't really a constructive answer.
The conversation isn’t fun, though. It’s almost transcendently silly and doesn’t remotely approach utility as anything other than an alibi.

The notion that the only pitchers Bloom could have traded for were the ones that actually switched teams is the sort of silly primary premise that would be laughed out of any serious discussion of a different subject, and the notion that any of you can speak remotely intelligently about what every other pitcher could have been available and for what price is even more ridiculous.

@chawson is a cool dude and everything, but you guys are basically giving @8slim shit for not having a faux-serious conversation about how life would be different if he had gotten married last year, only the entire potential spouse pool is limited to 15 people that actually did marry his friends and neighbors and also limited to how things actually went in those marriages over the past couple months. Like, he’s at fault for politely suggesting that the way you’re wasting time is, frankly, a waste of time.
 
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HangingW/ScottCooper

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It definitely seems like an organizational philosophy to focus on up the middle players in the draft. And given that most of the pitchers in the prospect rankings are international, it’s fair to guess that they think (thought) that’s the correct approach.
Maybe if he focused on up the middle players in the offseason he'd still have a job.
 

NickEsasky

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The conversation isn’t fun, though. It’s almost transcendently silly and doesn’t remotely approach utility as anything other than an alibi.

The notion that the only pitchers Bloom could have traded for were the ones that actually switched teams is the sort of silly primary premise that would be laughed out of any serious discussion of a different subject, and the notion that any of you can speak remotely intelligently about what every other pitcher could have been available and for what price is even more ridiculous.

@chawson is a cool dude and everything, but you guys are basically giving @8slim shit for not having a faux-serious conversation about how life would be different if he had gotten married last year, only the entire potential spouse pool is limited to 15 people that actually did marry his friends and neighbors and also limited to how things actually went in those marriages over the past couple months. Like, he’s at fault for politely suggesting that the way you’re wasting time is, frankly, a waste of time.
Don’t forgot it’s dumb to draft pitchers because no one else does and they don’t produce(which honestly isn’t that wrong) and apparently it’s also dumb to sign FA pitchers so not sure where that leaves us for finding pitchers.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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We know Bloom tried to get Eovaldi, Heaney and Eflin last year. That's the type of deal that would have made sense at that point instead of spending a little less for Kluber, but spending Verlander/DeGrom/Rodon or even Bassitt money would have made resetting the tax this year difficult. This winter is the time where it makes sense to look at the true top tier.

Now if it's Chaim's failings as a deal maker to blame for being unsuccessful with those guys, then I'm totally on board with getting someone who is equally good at identifying targets but better at actually acquiring them.
Wasn't this part of the reason he was fired. He was in on everyone and couldn't close the deal.
 

JM3

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Don’t forgot it’s dumb to draft pitchers because no one else does and they don’t produce(which honestly isn’t that wrong) and apparently it’s also dumb to sign FA pitchers so not sure where that leaves us for finding pitchers.
Pitchers are the hobgoblin of a narrow mind.
 

simplicio

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Wasn't this part of the reason he was fired. He was in on everyone and couldn't close the deal.
It could be? Certainly nobody outside of the organization knows what went down in those negotations; maybe Heaney and Eflin truly did just want to play for their home teams, but maybe Bloom's lack of rapport with their agents also influenced things.

As I've said before, I wouldn't be surprised if ownership saw those failed deals last winter and got nervous about this offseason's need for FA pitchers.
 

NickEsasky

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Pitchers are the hobgoblin of a narrow mind.
Honestly, I don’t hate Bloom strategy of casting a wide net later on in the draft. I guess I just wish they weren’t all guys who throw 88-90 hoping they add 5-6 MPH in velocity in the minors.
 

Auger34

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I feel like what you keep telling me is, essentially, there was absolutely nothing he could do. Not during this season. Not last off-season. Not during the previous season. Not the previous off-season. Etc.
This. Fucking 1000000 times this.

We don’t know who was available or what they would cost. Working backwards and acting like those are the only possible options isnt interesting or true
 
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HangingW/ScottCooper

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It could be? Certainly nobody outside of the organization knows what went down in those negotations; maybe Heaney and Eflin truly did just want to play for their home teams, but maybe Bloom's lack of rapport with their agents also influenced things.

As I've said before, I wouldn't be surprised if ownership saw those failed deals last winter and got nervous about this offseason's need for FA pitchers.
Sure, throw a dart and give me one.

Look, I appreciate that you provide these lists. I do. But I don’t want you to do the work to answer me because I’m just going to say the same thing as I have been…

Finding someone was Bloom’s job.

I feel like what you keep telling me is, essentially, there was absolutely nothing he could do. Not during this season. Not last off-season. Not during the previous season. Not the previous off-season. Etc.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like you’re saying Bloom did everything correct. And yet here he is without a job. It doesn’t square.
For better or worse, weren't there reports on David Price that he wasn't interested in coming to Boston until Dombrowski gave him $217 mil? Very rarely is the "nothing he could do" statement actually reality.
 

JM3

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Honestly, I don’t hate Bloom strategy of casting a wide net later on in the draft. I guess I just wish they weren’t all guys who throw 88-90 hoping they add 5-6 MPH in velocity in the minors.
Market inefficiency. If you can fix em.

Anyone see Perales throw 6 1-hit innings in the A+ best of 3 finals today?

Hunter Dobbins also pitched 4 1-hit innings for Portland today (unfortunately the 1 hit was a homer), & struck out 8 in the season finale. Which they won 24-2.

But I'm just being flippant currently. Hopefully some of these guys pay off.

Another guy who could be interesting if he adds a few more mph is Jedixson Paez, 19, who despite a slow start, closed the A-Ball season strong with a 3.31 ERA (3.46 xFIP). He has a great feel for pitching & excellent control. But he needs to take that leap to get in the Bello path, & there's obviously no guarantee of that.
 

Benj4ever

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Eovaldi said a couple months back that he wanted to stay. That’s all I know.
Are we talking about the Nate Eovaldi who was out for almost two months with an injury, and has stunk since he came back? That Nate Eovaldi? I thought one of the big complaints about Bloom was that he signed pitchers who were about to get injured!
 

chawson

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I feel like what you keep telling me is, essentially, there was absolutely nothing he could do. Not during this season. Not last off-season. Not during the previous season. Not the previous off-season. Etc.
This. Fucking 1000000 times this.

We don’t know who was available or what they would cost. Working backwards and acting like those are the only possible options isnt interesting or true
I get that this argument is attractive. It's unfalsifiable. We don't know what we don't know, and we need someone to blame for failing to bring that unknown—which clearly would have solved everything—into reality.

In actual reality, it's not an infinite pool of available pitchers. It's a closed, finite system. There's also a mandate to staff them without spending above the tax that our previous GMs didn't have.

What I am saying is, for the countless reasons pointed out in this thread, and considering ownership's mandate to build a team without exceeding the tax, it's defensible to want to develop Tanner Houck in the rotation instead of paying big and hoping that Kevin Gausman's age 33-35 seasons, the ones that line up with the window our hitting prospects are about to open, are still effective. It's defensible to opt against trading Yorke and Rafaela for Luis Castillo. And those are two of the best case scenario example of pitchers who were available—most others got hurt or sucked.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Are we talking about the Nate Eovaldi who was out for almost two months with an injury, and has stunk since he came back? That Nate Eovaldi? I thought one of the big complaints about Bloom was that he signed pitchers who were about to get injured!
Eovaldi has been worth 3.8 bWAR, or 4.6 more than Kluber, though.
 

Benj4ever

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Eovaldi has been worth 3.8 bWAR, or 4.6 more than Kluber, though.
Doesn't really address my point, though. Does it? The Bloom detractors would have given him crap for re-signing Eovaldi, a guy with a long injury history, because they'll use anything they can get to rip on him...and they've already beaten that point to death in this thread.

But, I agree 100% on the Kluber signing. I absolutely hated it. I wanted Wacha back (not a big Eovaldi fan).
 

mikcou

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I get that this argument is attractive. It's unfalsifiable. We don't know what we don't know, and we need someone to blame for failing to bring that unknown—which clearly would have solved everything—into reality.

In actual reality, it's not an infinite pool of available pitchers. It's a closed, finite system. There's also a mandate to staff them without spending above the tax that our previous GMs didn't have.

What I am saying is, for the countless reasons pointed out in this thread, and considering ownership's mandate to build a team without exceeding the tax, it's defensible to want to develop Tanner Houck in the rotation instead of paying big and hoping that Kevin Gausman's age 33-35 seasons, the ones that line up with the window our hitting prospects are about to open, are still effective. It's defensible to opt against trading Yorke and Rafaela for Luis Castillo. And those are two of the best case scenario example of pitchers who were available—most others got hurt or sucked.
Here's any easy one: Bloom signs Senga instead of Yoshida. He was clearly available and could have been signed with the same amount of money. The team would be considerably better off in that alternate scenario. Would they make the playoffs? Probably not, but the future would be a bit more clear about how to be competitive.
 

Auger34

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I get that this argument is attractive. It's unfalsifiable. We don't know what we don't know, and we need someone to blame for failing to bring that unknown—which clearly would have solved everything—into reality.

In actual reality, it's not an infinite pool of available pitchers. It's a closed, finite system. There's also a mandate to staff them without spending above the tax that our previous GMs didn't have.

What I am saying is, for the countless reasons pointed out in this thread, and considering ownership's mandate to build a team without exceeding the tax, it's defensible to want to develop Tanner Houck in the rotation instead of paying big and hoping that Kevin Gausman's age 33-35 seasons, the ones that line up with the window our hitting prospects are about to open, are still effective. It's defensible to opt against trading Yorke and Rafaela for Luis Castillo. And those are two of the best case scenario example of pitchers who were available—most others got hurt or sucked.
You are continually putting only the pitchers that were actually traded as the only possible options…..they aren’t.

We have no idea who was available and what the cost was….so your starting points, that you continually seem to portray as the only possibilities, aren’t right.

It’s also purposely limiting the discussion. Just to speak for myself, I don’t find it productive and it seems like you are clearly narrowing the conversation to make the answer inevitable….the answer that you want
 
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simplicio

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I'm generally in agreement with Bloom's moves but I was really disappointed to hear he'd been in on Eovaldi last winter; definitely not a guy I wanted multiple more years of cause of his track record.,

Obviously a million times better than Kluber this year of course.
Doesn't really address my point, though. Does it? The Bloom detractors would have given him crap for re-signing Eovaldi, a guy with a long injury history, because they'll use anything they can get to rip on him...and they've already beaten that point to death in this thread.

But, I agree 100% on the Kluber signing. I absolutely hated it. I wanted Wacha back (not a big Eovaldi fan).
 

simplicio

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Here's any easy one: Bloom signs Senga instead of Yoshida. He was clearly available and could have been signed with the same amount of money. The team would be considerably better off in that alternate scenario. Would they make the playoffs? Probably not, but the future would be a bit more clear about how to be competitive.
They'd been scouting Yoshida for 4 years. He was their guy.

Also, coincidentally or not, Yamamoto's teammate.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Are we talking about the Nate Eovaldi who was out for almost two months with an injury, and has stunk since he came back? That Nate Eovaldi? I thought one of the big complaints about Bloom was that he signed pitchers who were about to get injured!
No one knows if Eovaldi would have been hurt if he was pitching for Boston. You can't talk about a player being injured on another team and then say that it would have happened if he was playing for the Sox. Totally different circumstances and chain of events.
 

mikcou

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They'd been scouting Yoshida for 4 years. He was their guy.

Also, coincidentally or not, Yamamoto's teammate.
I guess what does that say about them? At the very best, its a lack of ability to adjust to what the team needs. No one would trade Senga for Yoshida now so isnt that the entire point here? Bloom didn't execute well and I say that as someone who liked the philosophy. His MLB talent scouting was effectively his downfall.

They arent signing Yamamoto.
 

simplicio

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No one knows if Eovaldi would have been hurt if he was pitching for Boston. You can't talk about a player being injured on another team and then say that it would have happened if he was playing for the Sox. Totally different circumstances and chain of events.
You can look at an 11 year career and say "hey this guy's only made more than 22 starts/pitched more than 125 innings 3 times" and not give him a multi-year deal though.
 

chawson

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Here's any easy one: Bloom signs Senga instead of Yoshida. He was clearly available and could have been signed with the same amount of money. The team would be considerably better off in that alternate scenario. Would they make the playoffs? Probably not, but the future would be a bit more clear about how to be competitive.
This is a good one, though Senga reportedly wanted to sign with the Mets.

Curious to see how it turns out, and of course whether rostering Yoshida has any effect on Yamamoto.
We have no idea who was available and what the cost was….so your starting points, that you continually seem to portray as the only possibilities, aren’t right.

It’s also purposely limiting the discussion. Just to speak for myself, I don’t find it productive and it seems like you are clearly narrowing the conversation to make the answer inevitable….the answer that you want
I guess we’ll never know. But let’s get those pitchforks ready anyway!
 

Remagellan

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Here's any easy one: Bloom signs Senga instead of Yoshida. He was clearly available and could have been signed with the same amount of money. The team would be considerably better off in that alternate scenario. Would they make the playoffs? Probably not, but the future would be a bit more clear about how to be competitive.
Sure, and what if Senga had no desire to live in Boston, and preferred to live in NYC? It's not a given players sign for the most money.

I've been as big a Bloom supporter as there has been here, and I'm fine with his dismissal, but I am worried about the ownership's ability to continue to get top talent to come here if they continue to show so little patience with them once they're hired. Because you know all those hot candidates that have been listed to succeed Bloom? None of them have had to manage making deals at the trade deadline either. It's something they are going to have to learn on the job, and whatever they might be offered to come here, some might decide it's not worth it if their support from the ownership group is as fleeting as it has been for Cherington...and Dombroski...and now Bloom.

People can mock Brian Cashman all they want for the MFYs recent lack of championships, which has more to do with the luck inherent in competing for such in this sport than his mistakes, but I wish we had that sort of continued, consistent leadership at that level running our organization, rather than resetting and restarting every four or five years.
 

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I'd love for them to. But this is going to be a $250M+ deal, I dont think thats happening the season after they handed out a $300M extension to Devers.
They got rid of a GM that was apparently gun shy about making big splashes. This would seem to be the perfect off-season to make a big splash, and Yamamoto would seem to be the perfect splash-ee. They might not get him, but I certainly don't think it's the foregone conclusion you make it out to be.
 

MakMan44

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They got rid of a GM that was apparently gun shy about making big splashes. This would seem to be the perfect off-season to make a big splash, and Yamamoto would seem to be the perfect splash-ee. They might not get him, but I certainly don't think it's the foregone conclusion you make it out to be.
In fact, everything that Bloom had done before being let go suggests that Yamamoto would have been his big target this offseason.
 

mikcou

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This is a good one, though Senga reportedly wanted to sign with the Mets.

Curious to see how it turns out, and of course whether rostering Yoshida has any effect on Yamamoto.


I guess we’ll never know. But let’s get those pitchforks ready anyway!
Youre citing things after he signed with the Mets? Like what is he going to say? I really wanted to sign with the Yankees/Red Sox? Not to be harsh, but this is some of the stuff that make people that you're blind for Bloom - none of these type of reports show any pre-signing predeliction to sign to a certain team other than than they paid the most. Statements after signing are self serving and should be viewed as such.

Results are the executives job. If Bloom wanted Senga (or Eflin or whoever), its his job to get the guy to sign. Not make excuses. Occam's razor is he preferred Yoshida to Senga. Somehow I really doubt Senga is taking a 5/75 Mets offer over a 5/90 Sox offer.
 

Auger34

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This is a good one, though Senga reportedly wanted to sign with the Mets.

Curious to see how it turns out, and of course whether rostering Yoshida has any effect on Yamamoto.


I guess we’ll never know. But let’s get those pitchforks ready anyway!
Of course…or you could just admit that you dont know either and the whole exercise that you continue to present as some sort of very intelligent way to prove your point is actually stupid…but no, it’s better to act like other posters are just blood thirsty for peoples jobs
 

chawson

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Youre citing things after he signed with the Mets? Like what is he going to say? I really wanted to sign with the Yankees/Red Sox? Not to be harsh, but this is some of the stuff that make people that you're blind for Bloom - none of these type of reports show any pre-signing predeliction to sign to a certain team other than than they paid the most. Statements after signing are self serving and should be viewed as such.

Results are the executives job. If Bloom wanted Senga (or Eflin or whoever), its his job to get the guy to sign. Not make excuses. Occam's razor is he preferred Yoshida to Senga. Somehow I really doubt Senga is taking a 5/75 Mets offer over a 5/90 Sox offer.
I don’t know what you want me to say, man. I agreed with you that it would have been a more valuable signing, at least after one year, and supplied relevant reporting. The articles state that Senga only considered teams ready to contend.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
4,617
Of course…or you could just admit that you dont know either and the whole exercise that you continue to present as some sort of very intelligent way to prove your point is actually stupid…but no, it’s better to act like other posters are just blood thirsty for peoples jobs
I’m happy to admit that I don’t know! None of us knows the whole scoop behind trade talks. But that’s not evidence that a solution was there.

And line drive aside, there really is a finite number of pitchers who can pitch better than Houck, a guy who’s on our team the next half decade. There’s also a smaller pool of sellers with expanded playoffs, a massive, widespread, sport-threatening increase in UCL injuries, and a spending mandate from ownership. So I’m skeptical about your certainty that a trade that would have worked was there.

But your point, again and again and again, is that you don’t care about those details. No one should. You want this guy to figure it out!!! (or lose his job)
 

jbupstate

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2022
592
New York, USA
This is a good one, though Senga reportedly wanted to sign with the Mets.

Curious to see how it turns out, and of course whether rostering Yoshida has any effect on Yamamoto.


I guess we’ll never know. But let’s get those pitchforks ready anyway!
Bloom has been fired. But still the pitchforks are out.

Senga chose the Mets. Eflin chose Tampa.

Eovaldi talk is stupid. The guy was absolutely going to be a huge injury concern on a team of SPs with injury concerns. But he might not have been hurt on the Sox? That’s the craziest argument I’ve seen on SOSH.
 

mikcou

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2007
906
Boston
I don’t know what you want me to say, man. I agreed with you that it would have been a more valuable signing, at least after one year, and supplied relevant reporting. The articles state that Senga only considered teams ready to contend.
I guess I dont view reporting after a guy signs as being relevant to anything. People will say whatever makes sense for their circumstances. There are very few players who have turned down more money. In 99% of cases, money talks, everything else is bullshit. Absent compelling evidence, my operating assumption is the player signed because that team offered the most.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,000
I’m happy to admit that I don’t know! None of us knows the whole scoop behind trade talks. But that’s not evidence that a solution was there.

And line drive aside, there really is a finite number of pitchers who can pitch better than Houck, a guy who’s on our team the next half decade. There’s also a smaller pool of sellers with expanded playoffs, a massive, widespread, sport-threatening increase in UCL injuries, and a spending mandate from ownership. So I’m skeptical about your certainty that a trade that would have worked was there.

But your point, again and again and again, is that you don’t care about those details. No one should. You want this guy to figure it out!!! (or lose his job)
Already went back and forth on this too much
 
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cannonball 1729

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 8, 2005
3,551
The Sticks
considering ownership's mandate to build a team without exceeding the tax
I'm curious - is this documented anywhere? I know the Sox traded Mookie for salary reasons, but that's because they were already almost $40 million over the tax in 2019 before even considering a Mookie extension, and the ownership balked at being $50-60 million over the threshold for the foreseeable future - especially since there are draft penalties for being $40 million and huge financial penalties at $60 million. That's different from an edict not to exceed the tax, though, and I don't know that I've seen anything asserting that the owners required that of Bloom. There's certainly a value in re-setting the tax (in that money spent going over the line in subsequent years isn't taxed as heavily, allowing the team to stretch the payroll a bit more), but that's just for one year out of three, not permanently. Did I just miss where this was reported?
 
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