Tottenham Hotspur 2019-20: Jose can you see?

Zososoxfan

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I don't understand how Dier at CB is an acceptable decision. He actually played alright but the pen was so so dumb and just isn't as likely with Jan or Toby. Let's see what Mr. Jose has in store for us today!
 

DJnVa

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I don't understand how Dier at CB is an acceptable decision. He actually played alright but the pen was so so dumb and just isn't as likely with Jan or Toby. Let's see what Mr. Jose has in store for us today!
I think Winks may have left him out to dry on that play. Dier played well overall, but with only a 1-0 lead, it only took one mistake to undo it.
 

Zososoxfan

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I think Winks may have left him out to dry on that play. Dier played well overall, but with only a 1-0 lead, it only took one mistake to undo it.
No. Spurs were in excellent position on the play, and while Winks could've perhaps come down harder on Pogba, Davies was in excellent position, Dav was marking Ighalo, and GLC was marking Rashford. Other United players may have come free, but that would've required an extra pass. With only 10 minutes remaining in regular time, it was a horrendous error.

View: https://streamable.com/jfqy47
 

DJnVa

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I don't know. Look at this moment:

32024

Spurs have 8 defenders in the box, each ManU guy is marked. If Winks closes harder Dier would (hopefully) recognize that help and not cross the line. Sissoko can close off the lane if Pogba drops the ball off and Winks closing would also cut that off. Winks is defending space that no one uncovered can reasonably get into in time frame. In my mind everyone else is defending dangerous space or a man.

Either way, it's not a huge issue for me, just frustrating.
 

Kliq

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No. Spurs were in excellent position on the play, and while Winks could've perhaps come down harder on Pogba, Davies was in excellent position, Dav was marking Ighalo, and GLC was marking Rashford. Other United players may have come free, but that would've required an extra pass. With only 10 minutes remaining in regular time, it was a horrendous error.

View: https://streamable.com/jfqy47
Yeah, that penalty happened because Dier was asked to play defense one-on-one against a talented offensive player, got roasted and then clumsily conceded a penalty after being beat. It is the play of a tired, overmatched defender, and it seems really unlikely to me that Toby or Jan would have made that same kind of mistake.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, that penalty happened because Dier was asked to play defense one-on-one against a talented offensive player, got roasted and then clumsily conceded a penalty after being beat. It is the play of a tired, overmatched defender, and it seems really unlikely to me that Toby or Jan would have made that same kind of mistake.
This is also true. Dier on an island against Pogba is not what you want. I just think that Winks is in no mans land and could have helped.
 

Zososoxfan

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This is also true. Dier on an island against Pogba is not what you want. I just think that Winks is in no mans land and could have helped.
Yeah, I mean Winks didn't cover himself in glory on that play and you're right that his decision-making is puzzling. But because the rest of the team is in good position, the brunt of the blame goes on Dier and if you ask me, Jose really.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Brunt of the blame for the pen goes on Dier, for sure, but he was putting in a MoTM performance up to that point.
I think it was not only an acceptable decision, but a glimmer of hope for both player and club.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Understandable but it's a downer after a much needed win. JM is denying any rift but not sure if I believe him.
 

Kliq

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Understandable but it's a downer after a much needed win. JM is denying any rift but not sure if I believe him.
Does JM have a history of clashing with creative, versatile, extremely talented French box-to-box midfielders?
 

Zososoxfan

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Honestly, it's hard to give a shit. If it's not true, Ndombele still needs to show he's ready to step up to the big leagues. If it is true, Spurs will need to figure out a way to unload him while recouping as much of the investment as possible. Since he played so little this season, it wasn't all due to injuries, and this season included the Poch-Mou transition, other clubs will still see plenty of promise. Unfortunate that the timing for transfer business like this (i.e. expensive in the pre-COVID market, selling at a loss) will cause more exaggerated results. Still, it's an entirely plausible scenario IMO that Spurs ask for the moon, don't get takers, and Ndombele is back for the beginning of next season (with the huge caveat of ??? due to COVID). He will need to behave well enough to get some minutes to even get a move come January. Either that or Spurs will realize he's a sunk cost and will do whatever they need to to get his wages off the books.

More importantly, let's talk about the MF SPURS! Man, it just felt good to have a fairly solid win. The Sissoko-GLC double pivot was a revelation and both had a very good game with GLC really dictating the entire match. Sonny and Bergy are studs, Kane made an 80 yard run that he didn't finish, but still scored one. The Dav-Dier pair looked downright competent. Lucas was a good version of his dangerous self.

On the negative side, Serge continues to be Serge and even though he was having a fairly good match thru an hour, he got overconfident and lost his focus and had a couple of brutal turnovers. Spurs were to susceptible to open play and a better club nets 2 against Spurs in the 2nd half (may need to temper some of the Cissoko-GLC enthusiasm just a touch). Davies is a limited stay at home FB (not a great asset). Dele didn't look great in this one (although I admit I didn't get to watch him closely). And lastly, Mou still only used 3 subs even though the only additional player on the bench I really wanted to see was Sess.

Speaking of which, it seems like the EPL is not doing the expanded bench similar to La Liga. That's a real shame because I'd love to give a spot to Tanganga, Skipp, Foyth, CCV, or shit even Parrott. Tanganga and Foyth should get real consideration simply because they offer some fascimile of an option at FB.
 

coremiller

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Ndombele's fitness hasn't been great and he's had several nagging injuries, but it's been clear when he's played that he's outrageously talented. He has a unique combination of a a press-breaking dribbling ability with a #10's passing creative passing range, and his defensive metrics in France were quite good as well. There's a reason he was the hottest midfield prospect in Europe 18 months ago. He should be the core of the future of the team.

Spurs were fine today, but I felt like this game was more about West Ham being dreadful than Spurs being good. The next match is at Sheffield Utd., which will be a sterner test.
 

DJnVa

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Do we think that Jose would have him on the bench if this was true?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Kim Min-jae, the young (23) and talented South Korean centre-back & a member of the national squad, is rumored to be looking for a European home.

He's currently playing for the Beijing Guoan in the Chinese Super League. Although one of the Chinese news sites published a quick article "linking" Kim to the Spurs, Korean outlets are saying it's just one of several clubs looking into his service.

The Beijing club has asked for about €15m or £13.5m for the transfer. HITC covers it in more detail here:


I've watched Kim play for a few years now. He was a rising star in SK, winning the Best-of-the-Best High School tournament that showcases the best young footballers that Korea has to offer. Heavily scouted by the collegiate and pro teams, Kim has been a fixture for the national team since 2016, first with the U-23 squad.

In 2019, he was part of the regular national team that won the Asian Cup (along with Son) so there's no worry about having to fulfill the mandatory military service. A few clips from the tournament. First his header against Kyrgyzstan. It was also his first A-match goal:

View: https://youtu.be/ApNRx2AzF10


He added another in the following match against China:

View: https://youtu.be/0iw_sgQay_8?


Here's an expanded highlight video that also shows his defending skills:

View: https://youtu.be/k2OfzF8sYJw


As a player, he's aggressive and ready to push the ball forward when given the chance. He was generally known as the best tackling & passing defender during his time in the K-League. At 6' 3" and 190 lbs, I think he can match physically in the Premiere League as well.

Also, he's known as bit of a bulldog (umm, an assh*le) if you are playing against him or not a fan. That toughness and willingness not to back down is another reason why Korean fans are cautiously optimistic about Kim's chances in the EPL.

Undoubtedly, Son has had a call or two in getting his fellow countryman to join the Spurs. Hope it happens!
 

Zososoxfan

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Did anyone else watch that disaster? I liked the speedy frontline even though I thought Kane might've been setup behind Son, with Lucas and Bergy on the wings. Nevertheless, it didn't deliver (although the first Kane goal called back should've either stood or been at FK at a minimum). Davies is very much a subpar LB and I consider him the primarily culprit on the first goal. If Mou is going to stick with Dier-Davies on the left side, then a more defensive LMF should probably be there to help. I thought that would be Sess, but he didn't even make the squad today SMH. I was surprised that Serge stayed home so much in the first half, but that was probably the trade-off with getting the front 4 on. While I still think the GLC-Sissoko tandem is the best CMF combo we have, neither was very good today. I didn't watch the second half as much and I'm thankful I didn't. Scoreboard watching as a Spurs fan is just brutal, because we usually get the results we need and then promptly fill our pants at any real opportunity.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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As usual, Serge was directly responsible for one of the goals.
Result notwithstanding, good to see Tanguy get a little run. The potential is so visible!
 

coremiller

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He was fine the first 2 games back. He's getting a new deal. You're going to be on this anti-Dier train a while, because I don't think he's leaving.
Other than the part where he gave away a cheap penalty against Man Utd.
 

Zososoxfan

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He was fine the first 2 games back. He's getting a new deal. You're going to be on this anti-Dier train a while, because I don't think he's leaving.
Uhh, he was caught napping and flat footed on the second goal against the Blades. He's shown promise at CB, but he's learning on the job.

The goal for the season after the restart was get UEL and maybe do well enough to sneak into UCL (5th if MANC stay banned). Those goals are not going to be met which means this is objectively a midtable side. It certainly seems the squad has enough talent to be top 6 and certainly spends in the top 6 in wages, so changes are needed in order to perform in line with the perceived talent level and expenditures.
 

Kliq

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Ugly game but Spurs need all the points they can get, and given the state of their defense, two clean sheets in the last three games is what it is.

The biggest bright spot I thought was Harry Winks, who played arguably his best game I have seen him play. He was almost always in position on defense and made good reads and decisions, snuffing out anything he got near. He also do a good job being available and active on offense, quickly shuffling the ball around and being a release valve from players on the wing.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Regarding Kim Min-jae, he reported back to China to finish out the year. His contract runs out in 2021 but the transfer may still happen during the off-season. I'd have loved to see him play alongside Son.
 

DJnVa

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Uhh, he was caught napping and flat footed on the second goal against the Blades.
That was the 3rd game. ;)

Other than the part where he gave away a cheap penalty against Man Utd.
I stand by my earlier posts that while Dier definitely fouled him, Winks hung him out to dry on that play. Of freaking course Pogba beat him 1 on 1.
 
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Zososoxfan

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Pretty boring match yesterday, but at least I understand what Mou is trying to do and the boys got 3. It seems fairly obvious he's trying to find his best XI and establish chemistry, patterns, and generally speaking a style. I'm not sure what to make of Toby coming in for Dav, but the fact that Dier, Davies, and Serge continue to start every match and play 90 leads me to think that Mou has basically chosen the course of action mentioned above and hopes that fostering familiarity will help patch over deficiencies in skill and in Dier's case learning a new position. Similarly, it seems clear that Mou accepts that Kane, Son, Sissoko, and GLC should be involved in just about every match. Other players seriously in the rotation are Lucas, Bergy (love the fact that this nickname crosses over sports), Lamela, Dav, and Winks. Everyone else (namely Tanguy, Dele, Jan, Sess, and Gedson) is still trying to make the rotation. Dele may already be there and was just left out recently due to injury concerns.

I liked how Mou basically stuck with the SHU lineup, but recognized that he needed to fortify the MF and replaced an attacker with Winks. Mou has basically tried different combos in the 4-2-X setup, and while Sissoko-GLC can work in that system at times, it's still clear that the club needs a DMF for versatility and stability. But, adding another mobile MF who at least is a willing defender papers over the lack of a proper DMF.

Dele is such a different player from the rest that I'm not sure if and how he fits into yesterday's 4-3-3 or if he's the right guy for the #10 in the 4-2-3-1. In the 4-3-3, GLC and Tanguy (presumably) are both good options for the attacking MF role and while Dele is OK as a winger in that setup, Mou clearly likes speed up top to hit on the counter.

In the 4-2-3-1, I would think Dele would be an option as the AMF in the middle, but Dele is usually at his best taking on players from the wing and combining into the middle. I think Dele is a wonderful player that you can absolutely build a squad around, but it's hard to say how he fits with how little he's played since the restart. In talking about him, it sounds a lot like Coutinho and also a bit like Griezmann (in that his skillset should let him be more versatile, but when the manager's preferred tactics are considered the player's potential roles are more limited).

While Spurs were not very creative in attack yesterday, I can at least see the outline for Mou's goals here and getting the 3 points keeps them in the hunt for European ball next season.
 

DJnVa

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If Ndombele doesn't start Thursday, they might as well sell him--if he's in the squad and you can't use him with only a 2 day break between games, then give that slot to someone you will play.

EDIT: I don't even know who to blame at this point. If he's healthy enough to get on your gameday list, this is a game he should start, especially with 5 subs available.
 

DJnVa

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Dier suspended 4 games for going into the stands.

Should be easy to compare and contrast now.
 

DJnVa

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Perhaps because he was also Spurs’ best player during the 1-0 win, and is so technically gifted, it’s an element of his game that can be overlooked. But watching these post-lockdown matches behind closed doors you can really get a sense of their rhythms and sub-plots, and it’s clear Lo Celso is a massive pain to play against.
Lo Celso’s persistent niggling is immensely irritating to his opponents, and watching games closely at stadiums with no crowd noise, you get a sense of which players are especially aggravating. Against West Ham a couple of weeks ago, Declan Rice and Mark Noble got increasingly vexed with Lo Celso as the game went on. At one point in the second half after Lo Celso went down under his challenge, Rice turned round to tell him to “fuck off” and gesture at him to get up after what he thought was a dive. It was a reaction that had been brewing all evening and was said with some feeling.
Lo Celso’s next adversary was Coleman, who shoved him after a foul by Ben Davies. Lo Celso stood in Coleman’s way under the pretence of moving into position to defend a free kick, but really it looked like he just fancied another argument. A frustrated Coleman gestured angrily at Lo Celso and made his point to Scott. Lo Celso shrugged his shoulders, as if to say, “What? I just happened to be standing right in your way as you got up and tried to take a free kick.”
But after the limp defeat at Sheffield United in their previous match, Mourinho had told the players he needed them to be more aggressive against Everton. He reiterated that message after the game, saying that: “A team of good boys, a team of nice boys: the only thing they can win at the end of the season is the Fair Play Cup, which is something I never won and I’m not interested in winning that.”

Lo Celso may be a beautiful footballer but he is not a nice boy. And that makes him even more valuable to Tottenham and Mourinho.
 

Kliq

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Someone had to pick up the gaping shithousery hole that was created when Danny Rose left.
 

coremiller

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Someone had to pick up the gaping shithousery hole that was created when Danny Rose left.
Esp. with Lamela mostly limited to substitute appearances.

I normally hate invoking national stereotypes but the Argentines do seem to develop excellent shithousers.
 

Zososoxfan

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Esp. with Lamela mostly limited to substitute appearances.

I normally hate invoking national stereotypes but the Argentines do seem to develop excellent shithousers.
You don't watch enough La Liga, Serie A, or football from other countries. The British game stands out to me for a lack of shithousery. What club is the biggest shithouser? SHU? Burnley, Newcastle? I have no idea.

In La Liga, every club has some level of shithousery, but Getafe is by far the worst and Leganes gets HM. Serie A is where shithousery is strongest. Those clubs are still time-wasting like it's the 90s. Same story throughout most of LatAm, although I admit I haven't watched Liga MX in years.
 

Kliq

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You don't watch enough La Liga, Serie A, or football from other countries. The British game stands out to me for a lack of shithousery. What club is the biggest shithouser? SHU? Burnley, Newcastle? I have no idea.

In La Liga, every club has some level of shithousery, but Getafe is by far the worst and Leganes gets HM. Serie A is where shithousery is strongest. Those clubs are still time-wasting like it's the 90s. Same story throughout most of LatAm, although I admit I haven't watched Liga MX in years.
CONCACAF games are on a whole different level, from the top on down. I will say SHU and Burnley are the most British-based teams in the EPL as far as rosters go.
 

Zososoxfan

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I'm the biggest Lamela stan there is, but my god what a dreadful match. However, this isn't all Lamela's fault. Mou's biggest problem today was keeping him as the AMF for the full 100. Most of the rest is on the players.

First, any defense of either FB today should mark someone as a dolt. These FBs are both mid-table quality, at best.

I like GLC and Sissoko more than most, and I thought both just looked absolutely gassed today. How you can start them both on a quick turnaround like this after playing them most of the previous 3-4 matches as well with Tanguy on the bench and without even giving Skipp a shot is indefensible. This is Mou's second biggest sin today. Winks just isn't that good right now and anyone expecting better from him is just projecting.

Bergy was invisible in the first half, but why Mou didn't shift him to AMF and take off Lamela baffles me. Kane was starved of service, so he dropped deeper and deeper, and he no longer has the speed to rejoin the play. It wouldn't matter that much because Serge only hit 4/536356363ggsr^5442bxt crosses with quality. Lucas was frustrating as usual, but he doesn't draw my ire as much as he does to others. He has a valuable skill and if Spurs were deep enough and Mou astute enough, he could be used effectively. He's a limited player but a good one in my mind.

Tanguy looked OK in his time. There's truly no reason at this point why he, Sess, Skipp, and other young players shouldn't get ample opportunity to play after the NLD. Win that fucker and then pack this shit up until next season. What gross gross horribad match. Sometimes I hate this club as much as I love it.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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If Lamela took 3 less touches every possession, he’d be a good 10. If he did that and had even a passible right foot, he’d be great.

As is, he’s a useful bastard to have as an option, but a problem if you rely on him as an attacking piece.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Lamela and Lucas are both useful subs. Neither should ever start (or at least play 90).
Today was awful. Everton match was awful. Sunday is terrifying, but our only hope for spirit.
After that, like Zsf says, play Skipp, Cirkin, Sessegnon and Tanganga. Lo Celso and Ndombele in every match.
This is painful to watch.
 

Kliq

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I'm the biggest Lamela stan there is, but my god what a dreadful match. However, this isn't all Lamela's fault. Mou's biggest problem today was keeping him as the AMF for the full 100. Most of the rest is on the players.

First, any defense of either FB today should mark someone as a dolt. These FBs are both mid-table quality, at best.

I like GLC and Sissoko more than most, and I thought both just looked absolutely gassed today. How you can start them both on a quick turnaround like this after playing them most of the previous 3-4 matches as well with Tanguy on the bench and without even giving Skipp a shot is indefensible. This is Mou's second biggest sin today. Winks just isn't that good right now and anyone expecting better from him is just projecting.

Bergy was invisible in the first half, but why Mou didn't shift him to AMF and take off Lamela baffles me. Kane was starved of service, so he dropped deeper and deeper, and he no longer has the speed to rejoin the play. It wouldn't matter that much because Serge only hit 4/536356363ggsr^5442bxt crosses with quality. Lucas was frustrating as usual, but he doesn't draw my ire as much as he does to others. He has a valuable skill and if Spurs were deep enough and Mou astute enough, he could be used effectively. He's a limited player but a good one in my mind.

Tanguy looked OK in his time. There's truly no reason at this point why he, Sess, Skipp, and other young players shouldn't get ample opportunity to play after the NLD. Win that fucker and then pack this shit up until next season. What gross gross horribad match. Sometimes I hate this club as much as I love it.
I agree with a lot of this. Lamela has skills but was dreadful today, especially in some promising counter attacks where he just couldn't get the ball out from under his feet or make a decision quick enough before he was dispossessed.

Zero shots on goal is an embarrassment, especially when they controlled 60 percent of the possession. How is that possible? Terrible passing in the attacking third. Again, it wasn't just one player, but everyone. Bergwijn was invisible, and when Son came on he wasn't that much better. Lucas, Lamela, Aurier, Sissoko, GLC, Winks, all below average performances.

I agree that Kane gets starved for service, he drops back (which actually leads to more positive play for Spurs since he can win the ball and hold up play with his strength and is an underrated passer) but he doesn't have the speed to get back into play. I wonder if it is just general lack of fitness/fatigue, or a bigger issue in that his numerous lower body injuries have robbed him of what little pace he had and is now going to be a more limited player going forward.

There were two key plays late in the game that drove me crazy. The first was a neat one-two between Kane and Davies, where Kane set up Davies on a platter inside the 6 yard box and Davies whiffed. The second was when Lucas broke free in the box and just couldn't get the ball out from under his feet and fumbled it away.

I know I sound like a broken record by Aurier is just not talented enough for his role on the club. He is really fast and makes exciting runs, but he just has no quality on crosses, especially when he has to put them into the air. The worst part is other teams have the scouting report on him and they now give him space on the wing to cross the ball in, but they pack the box and Kane is the only regular attacker right now capable of winning the ball in the air and Aurier never manages to get it to him. He is like a basketball player with no jumpshot, and is left open all game to brick threes. And it seems to be the foundation of their offense.

Ndombele will make you ooh and ah when he is on the ball, but he was super wasteful with his possession. Tons of passes straight to the other team and wasting possession. He needs more playing time but this wasn't a great showing for him.

Final thoughts are that this team doesn't do anything well and plays boring football under Mourinho and I don't see where the future is. Levy isn't going to spend the kind of money to revamp the team on the fly and they don't have the kind of youth that inspires me to dream about the future. This was a team designed to win now and they have sucked all year.
 

eddiew112

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I agree with a lot of this. Lamela has skills but was dreadful today, especially in some promising counter attacks where he just couldn't get the ball out from under his feet or make a decision quick enough before he was dispossessed.

Zero shots on goal is an embarrassment, especially when they controlled 60 percent of the possession. How is that possible? Terrible passing in the attacking third. Again, it wasn't just one player, but everyone. Bergwijn was invisible, and when Son came on he wasn't that much better. Lucas, Lamela, Aurier, Sissoko, GLC, Winks, all below average performances.

I agree that Kane gets starved for service, he drops back (which actually leads to more positive play for Spurs since he can win the ball and hold up play with his strength and is an underrated passer) but he doesn't have the speed to get back into play. I wonder if it is just general lack of fitness/fatigue, or a bigger issue in that his numerous lower body injuries have robbed him of what little pace he had and is now going to be a more limited player going forward.

There were two key plays late in the game that drove me crazy. The first was a neat one-two between Kane and Davies, where Kane set up Davies on a platter inside the 6 yard box and Davies whiffed. The second was when Lucas broke free in the box and just couldn't get the ball out from under his feet and fumbled it away.

I know I sound like a broken record by Aurier is just not talented enough for his role on the club. He is really fast and makes exciting runs, but he just has no quality on crosses, especially when he has to put them into the air. The worst part is other teams have the scouting report on him and they now give him space on the wing to cross the ball in, but they pack the box and Kane is the only regular attacker right now capable of winning the ball in the air and Aurier never manages to get it to him. He is like a basketball player with no jumpshot, and is left open all game to brick threes. And it seems to be the foundation of their offense.

Ndombele will make you ooh and ah when he is on the ball, but he was super wasteful with his possession. Tons of passes straight to the other team and wasting possession. He needs more playing time but this wasn't a great showing for him.

Final thoughts are that this team doesn't do anything well and plays boring football under Mourinho and I don't see where the future is. Levy isn't going to spend the kind of money to revamp the team on the fly and they don't have the kind of youth that inspires me to dream about the future. This was a team designed to win now and they have sucked all year.
That's who Lamela is though. You could make multi-year compilation of him getting the ball in dangerous areas and either A) flailing around and falling on his ass looking for a foul B) getting the ball stuck under his feet or C) getting away a weak ass shot.

It's not just terrible passing in the attacking third, it's a complete lack of urgency in possession. Winks and Sissoko hold the ball forever and usually just end up passing backwards or sideways. We don't move the ball side to side quickly to open up space. Our attacking players are static and never make runs. The fullbacks never mix up their play. It's all passive, predictable, lacking any real intent. You could assemble a SOSH XI that would have defended well against Spurs yesterday.

That Lucas run was maybe the only time all game where we moved the ball with pace and we cut them open with ease. And of course he lost the ball under no pressure.

Aurier actually put in some nice crosses yesterday, but as you said, he plays the same ball every time. No cut backs, no driving runs to the byline. Just the same ball to the same spot, over and over and over again.

Kane's form is very worrying and sad to see. He doesn't even look like a mid-table striker right now.
 

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Jul 30, 2009
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South of North
The Total Soccer Show (thanks @Titans Bastard ) had a bit on where Liverpool and Spurs diverged a few years ago when both were promising, but not quite there yet. To sum up, Liverpool was building a system and any time a player wanted to leave (namely Coutinho) they let them go, and kept building. OTOH, Spurs begged their golden generation players (e.g. Eriksen, Toby) to stay and once this cycle ran its course (the UCL final was basically the last stand), there was nowhere for this squad to go but down. Walker and a few others stand in contrast to Eriksen/Toby, but overall I think it's accurate.
 

wonderland

lurker
Jul 20, 2005
299
The Total Soccer Show (thanks @Titans Bastard ) had a bit on where Liverpool and Spurs diverged a few years ago when both were promising, but not quite there yet. To sum up, Liverpool was building a system and any time a player wanted to leave (namely Coutinho) they let them go, and kept building. OTOH, Spurs begged their golden generation players (e.g. Eriksen, Toby) to stay and once this cycle ran its course (the UCL final was basically the last stand), there was nowhere for this squad to go but down. Walker and a few others stand in contrast to Eriksen/Toby, but overall I think it's accurate.
The difference is price with the players. Liverpool was paid an incredible amount for Coutinho. Same with Spurs and Walker. Spurs didn’t feel like they were offered enough with Erickson.

Teams will sell almost anybody if they get what they want.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
12,399
Liverpool also spent record amounts of money to address their two biggest weaknesses (Goalie and CB) and almost immediately turned those weaknesses into strengths. Spurs are never going to spend like that.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,548
Liverpool also spent record amounts of money to address their two biggest weaknesses (Goalie and CB) and almost immediately turned those weaknesses into strengths. Spurs are never going to spend like that.
Liverpool did it without a large net spend though, which they could do only because they sold Coutinho for that absurdly gigantic fee. They got super-lucky that PSG triggered Neymar's release clause, giving Barca the cash to blow on Coutinho. The Neymar deal probably doubled the fee for Coutinho, or maybe more -- would Barca have bought Coutinho if Neymar hadn't left, and if Barca weren't interested, would Coutinho have left at all?. Without that they probably only get one of Van Dijk/Allison, not both.