Toucher and Hardy: The new 98.5 morning show

8slim

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Fred spent much of the morning go after Sean Grande, who was taking some digs at Boston sports radio for his perceived notion that they were ready to pounce with the negativity if this team lost yesterday's game. I took Grande at going more after Felger & Mazz's shtick more specifically (and Grande would be right about this by the way), but Fred took it more generally and personal. Other than that, barely any actual discussion of the game and the playoffs outlook.
Is there some kind of beef between Fred and Grande? Because Fred seemed really pissed, and kept talking how Grande is a know-it-all and always had to be smarter than everyone else. It was very weird.

I hate to say that after 10 minutes of the segment about coordinating travel plans to the Revs game I turned it off and launched a Simmons podcast.
 

NortheasternPJ

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This is dumb and petty, but someone needs to teach Fred the difference between imply and infer. He always uses the latter when he means the former. Drives me nuts.
Well Fred just apologized for misusing imply and infer, so you have that going for you.
 

Rusty13

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Is there some kind of beef between Fred and Grande? Because Fred seemed really pissed, and kept talking how Grande is a know-it-all and always had to be smarter than everyone else. It was very weird.

I hate to say that after 10 minutes of the segment about coordinating travel plans to the Revs game I turned it off and launched a Simmons podcast.
That's a good question. He used to go on the old T&R show and did some bits for them as I recall. Guess that's over!
 

JCizzle

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That's a good question. He used to go on the old T&R show and did some bits for them as I recall. Guess that's over!
I never got the vibe that either Fred (or Rich back in the day) liked Grande. He seems pretty liked outside of T&R, so I wonder if Gorman let something slip behind the scenes? Or maybe he tried to fuck Wallach somehow?
 

NortheasternPJ

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I never got the vibe that either Fred (or Rich back in the day) liked Grande. He seems pretty liked outside of T&R, so I wonder if Gorman let something slip behind the scenes? Or maybe he tried to fuck Wallach somehow?
I believe Fred's hate of Grande is Grande's overinflated opinion of himself. He seems like a guy who can barely get his head through a door due to it being too big. From all the MMA stuff, to the interviews on how he thought they should combine the TV and radio broadcast (featuring himself) to the small stuff the other night about "everyone said the Celtics would be rusty and they overcame!"

Grande doesn't have the TV job and he didn't get it, he's the radio guy that gets put on WZLX if there's a Bruins game on. He's a know it all but still is a regional radio Celtics guy for the most part. I'm not into MMA so maybe I'm missing something, but Grande lacks everything Mike Gorman has which I believe is what puts Fred off.

Also Cedric Maxwell seems to love Wallach which his fuel to the fire on Grande.
 

onthereg527

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Fred spent time discussing Joe Milton and how he wasn’t a good pick for the Pats despite being a sixth round pick. He’s the definition of a guy you take in that round.
 

onthereg527

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He changed his argument slightly. Now he said he doesn’t care the Pats took him when they did, but he’s ranting about how bad he is and how as a Pats fan you shouldn’t hope he makes the team as a QB.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Fred spent time discussing Joe Milton and how he wasn’t a good pick for the Pats despite being a sixth round pick. He’s the definition of a guy you take in that round.
Pfffft. When was the last time a quarter back picked in the sixth round did anything of note?
 

Rusty13

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He changed his argument slightly. Now he said he doesn’t care the Pats took him when they did, but he’s ranting about how bad he is and how as a Pats fan you shouldn’t hope he makes the team as a QB.
He also admitted that he literally knows nothing about any of the other players they drafted, but since he knows "a lot" about this guy (from what? watching Michigan-Michigan St. games from 2 years ago??), he was going to take up 3 hours or so talking about it. No, seriously.
 

soxhop411

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He also admitted that he literally knows nothing about any of the other players they drafted, but since he knows "a lot" about this guy (from what? watching Michigan-Michigan St. games from 2 years ago??), he was going to take up 3 hours or so talking about it. No, seriously.
Thats seems to be a requirement to get a job in sports tall radio these days: pretend you are a know it all and an expert in everything. When infact you are just talking out of your ass
 

Rusty13

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Thats seems to be a requirement to get a job in sports tall radio these days: pretend you are a know it all and an expert in everything. When infact you are just talking out of your ass
No doubt. It was kind of funny to hear Fred openly admit it though haha. I'm not sure Hardy and Wallach were thrilled to be taking so much of the show talking about this guy though.
 

TheWizard

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He also admitted that he literally knows nothing about any of the other players they drafted, but since he knows "a lot" about this guy (from what? watching Michigan-Michigan St. games from 2 years ago??), he was going to take up 3 hours or so talking about it. No, seriously.
I believe his parents now live in TN or did at one point, so the team/player may be on a bit more on his radar b/c of that. He's milking the one guy he knew, that the Pats took and trashed him; 100% agree on overkill.
 

NortheasternPJ

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To be fair, this is not a Fred anti-Pats take. He's been saying this about Milton for weeks.

Also, more about how weird Rich was and how people hated him. Rich really seemed like a complete weirdo. I can't believe it worked for as long as it did. I was thinking back on one of his last days when he kept going at Joe Murray about the Zoom meeting and his question. Knowing now how bad things were with Rich, it explains why it got so awkward and uncomfortable.
 

Rusty13

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To be fair, this is not a Fred anti-Pats take. He's been saying this about Milton for weeks.

Also, more about how weird Rich was and how people hated him. Rich really seemed like a complete weirdo. I can't believe it worked for as long as it did. I was thinking back on one of his last days when he kept going at Joe Murray about the Zoom meeting and his question. Knowing now how bad things were with Rich, it explains why it got so awkward and uncomfortable.
I missed the Rich stuff. Fred randomly just bring that up? Man, it's time to move one. Having said that, it honestly seems like Rich was a completely two-faced person with how he presented himself on the air versus how he was viewed off the air. His fellow employees definitely seem much better off and probably happier. I'm not so sure as to the content of the new show yet though.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I missed the Rich stuff. Fred randomly just bring that up? Man, it's time to move one. Having said that, it honestly seems like Rich was a completely two-faced person with how he presented himself on the air versus how he was viewed off the air. His fellow employees definitely seem much better off and probably happier. I'm not so sure as to the content of the new show yet though.
It was in context of them going to the game. I forget exactly what it was but sounded like (again) Rich would do stuff outside the show but only invite certain people. DOB said one time he wasn't invited because he didn't have a wife and the other 3 people were couples, which was weird.

I agree Fred really does need to move on. There's a comment nearly daily. I don't even think he realizes he does it sometimes.
 

JCizzle

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To be fair, this is not a Fred anti-Pats take. He's been saying this about Milton for weeks.

Also, more about how weird Rich was and how people hated him. Rich really seemed like a complete weirdo. I can't believe it worked for as long as it did. I was thinking back on one of his last days when he kept going at Joe Murray about the Zoom meeting and his question. Knowing now how bad things were with Rich, it explains why it got so awkward and uncomfortable.
Joe Murray was also completely incapable of laughing at himself over a pretty benign story in that case.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Joe Murray was also completely incapable of laughing at himself over a pretty benign story in that case.
If I really don’t like someone and they are busting my balls about something, especially in a public forum I’m not inclined to laugh at myself. I don’t think most people are.
 

JCizzle

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If I really don’t like someone and they are busting my balls about something, especially in a public forum I’m not inclined to laugh at myself. I don’t think most people are.
Joe was also the guy who initially got defensive over his takes that a WWE shirt sale crashed credit card services country-wide until it became obvious how incredibly stupid that was. He's an entertainer, he should be able to laugh at himself. Joining a Zoom late and asking a corporate training to repeat itself with a hundred or whatever people on the line is crazy behavior in my opinion.
 

8slim

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The on air re-re-rehashing of their interpersonal issues bores me to tears. And the Milton stuff doesn't bother me, Fred being a crank is part of his schtick. I've been giving the show lots of time to find its footing, and it can be quite good at times. But it's not nearly as consistently funny as it was with Rich. Maybe a year from now it will be, hopefully.
 

onthereg527

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I actually think the show has been much improved lately as well, it took some time to find its footing but it's been enjoyable when Hardy has more room to breathe. The Milton stuff was just so weird to me though, I think Fred was ecstatic he really knew about this guy a lot and so he brought him up many times this morning. I really think he discussed Milton more than any other topic, which when you look at it on the surface level, he's a sixth round pick, that's just weird.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The on air re-re-rehashing of their interpersonal issues bores me to tears. And the Milton stuff doesn't bother me, Fred being a crank is part of his schtick. I've been giving the show lots of time to find its footing, and it can be quite good at times. But it's not nearly as consistently funny as it was with Rich. Maybe a year from now it will be, hopefully.
I agree on the personal stuff that’s WEEIs calling card and it’s awful.

I’ve said it here but I enjoy it much more than the end of T&R, which isn’t saying much. What was the last original but Rich did in the last 4 years? Brookline 911 and Fart Court were great (until he bought the stupid judge costumes). Almost all produced bits were gone a long time ago.

I don’t hate Rich and loved T&R but Rich was terrible by the end.
 

8slim

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I agree on the personal stuff that’s WEEIs calling card and it’s awful.

I’ve said it here but I enjoy it much more than the end of T&R, which isn’t saying much. What was the last original but Rich did in the last 4 years? Brookline 911 and Fart Court were great (until he bought the stupid judge costumes). Almost all produced bits were gone a long time ago.

I don’t hate Rich and loved T&R but Rich was terrible by the end.
I suspect it was a challenge for Rich to do a lot of new bits given Covid. Seemed like he relied on a lot of 'man on the street' type material, and that was pretty difficult to obtain when there weren't a lot of events going on for ~2 years (plus he was holed up on Nantucket).
 

Granite Sox

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He also admitted that he literally knows nothing about any of the other players they drafted, but since he knows "a lot" about this guy (from what? watching Michigan-Michigan St. games from 2 years ago??), he was going to take up 3 hours or so talking about it. No, seriously.
I believe his parents now live in TN or did at one point, so the team/player may be on a bit more on his radar b/c of that. He's milking the one guy he knew, that the Pats took and trashed him; 100% agree on overkill.
From 3 1/2 years ago.

Fred’s “knowledge“ of Milton goes back to Milton’s Michigan days. He was a freshman in 2018(!) and became the starter in the disastrous 2020 Covid season (2-4, canceled rest of the season including game vs. OSU). Milton was a RS sophomore starter, didn’t play well, and was replaced by Cade McNamara. Fred’s an MSU fan and Sparty beat Milton and Michigan that season. That’s about all he knows about Milton, as he said he didn’t see any of his games from Tennessee.

As mentioned, he doesn’t know shit from shinola about any of the other picks besides Milton, and came across to me as resentful of any/all the analysis of Milton over the weekend. He’s a 6th round draft pick. The odds of him having a significant career in the NFL are very low by definition. Given Milton’s limitations he was drafted in the 6th for a reason. Fred’s criticisms were completely disproportionate to Milton’s expected value.

To me, it was just another example of Fred’s overbearing presence on the show and the inability of Hardy et al to rein him in. After a good appearance from Reiss, all this bullshit ruined the next hour.

I didn’t hear the commentary re Rich, either, but Fred is so insecure and neurotic that it’s very difficult to accept any of this at face value anymore… it all seems uniquely prejudicial to the point where the others just go along to get along.

I thought that coming off of a monster sports weekend that Fred would be in rare form talking about the Pats, draft, B’s, and C’s. Instead we got weirdly obsessed Fred. It sucked.
 
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sezwho

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I suspect it was a challenge for Rich to do a lot of new bits given Covid. Seemed like he relied on a lot of 'man on the street' type material, and that was pretty difficult to obtain when there weren't a lot of events going on for ~2 years (plus he was holed up on Nantucket).

Let’s not forget the Paul Finebaum show or the Stephen A Smith mambo number five bits. Toucher is a sardonic and sarcastic radio host, which is good but turns out really not special.

Absolutely did not expect this, but I’m starting to think that it was really rich that elevated the entire operation.

Also, ‘they’ don’t air their dirty laundry…Fred goes internal monologue so we get his version over and over. Somehow, the guy having a mental breakdown, lashing out randomly, managing a serious health crisis, and relapsing into addiction was the moral compass? Nope
 
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NewInTown

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So I will preface this with a statement that I do have a bias because I have had interactions with both Fred and Rich that have nothing to do with radio (I was a server/bartender and ran into both of them over the years), and Rich came across as just a flat out asshole. I don't know if it's because he came from a poor family or what but he was the epitome of trying to big time everyone, "do you know who I am" the whole thing. Seemed like the kind of guy who would do something nice for someone solely for the purpose of telling the world about it. Fred seemed like he didn't want to be bothered or anyone know who he was when I served him, plus he tipped me way more than expected haha

WIth that disclaimer out of the way, I think Rich's bits ran out of steam after Brookline 911. Armpits and fart court got wicked stale, and just served for rich to be super over the top manic. Finebaum was great but I'm not even sure that was rich. But how many years since they sent Adolfo and Nick to open mic and read Mike and Mike? That's when the shoe was really in stride
 

Rusty13

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But how many years since they sent Adolfo and Nick to open mic and read Mike and Mike? That's when the shoe was really in stride
When was the last time they did "Ask a Pink Hat"? That was by far my favorite bit. The bits overall definitely got stale, but it kept a lot of structure to the show, which they definitely don't have now -- aside from when they have media guys come in for interviews. It's a bit of a mess otherwise.
 

sezwho

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So I will preface this with a statement that I do have a bias because I have had interactions with both Fred and Rich that have nothing to do with radio (I was a server/bartender and ran into both of them over the years), and Rich came across as just a flat out asshole. I don't know if it's because he came from a poor family or what but he was the epitome of trying to big time everyone, "do you know who I am" the whole thing. Seemed like the kind of guy who would do something nice for someone solely for the purpose of telling the world about it. Fred seemed like he didn't want to be bothered or anyone know who he was when I served him, plus he tipped me way more than expected haha

WIth that disclaimer out of the way, I think Rich's bits ran out of steam after Brookline 911. Armpits and fart court got wicked stale, and just served for rich to be super over the top manic. Finebaum was great but I'm not even sure that was rich. But how many years since they sent Adolfo and Nick to open mic and read Mike and Mike? That's when the shoe was really in stride
Not casting aspersions as could be lots of reasons and you seem genuine, but feel like multiple new members have come to 'testify' similarly here, fwiw. As counterpoint to testimonials on either side, Ms. Sezwho worked for NESN and ESPN and met many public figures in the course of her days (mostly athletes and media and execs as you would imagine) and she basically said "no one knows anyone at this level"...and she's a pretty rose colored glasses person.

In any case, I agree the whole thing got stale for a large number of reasons. I happen to think Rich's talent was squashed more by the situation (covid, budget cuts, mental/physical collapse of cohost, etc.) than Riffmaster's (again, of course) as Rich produces and creates concepts, etc. but who knows?

Fully admit I'm just jumping at shadows and have absolutely no idea for realz : ) The only actual 'evidence', such as it is, is the fact Rich wouldn't stick around for more of the same, whatever that looked like on the inside.
 

hube

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I wonder how much of the man on the street stuff being gone is due to not having anyone willing/able to actually go out and get audio after the end of games.
 

8slim

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As counterpoint to testimonials on either side, Ms. Sezwho worked for NESN and ESPN and met many public figures in the course of her days (mostly athletes and media and execs as you would imagine) and she basically said "no one knows anyone at this level"...and she's a pretty rose colored glasses person.
Yep. As another who worked at ESPN and crossed paths with the "talent", very few people knew the real them. Case in point, I had a couple of miserable encounters with Simmons. Yet the people who worked for him just adored the guy. Who was right? Who really knew him? Neither I nor them. We each saw different aspects of him in different circumstances.
 

onthereg527

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Yep. As another who worked at ESPN and crossed paths with the "talent", very few people knew the real them. Case in point, I had a couple of miserable encounters with Simmons. Yet the people who worked for him just adored the guy. Who was right? Who really knew him? Neither I nor them. We each saw different aspects of him in different circumstances.
Why were your encounters with Simmons miserable?
 

NortheasternPJ

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I won't get too into it, but I ran analytics at the time and he was unhappy with the way his web traffic was being reported.
Weird he’s never been thin skinned before. Oh wait. He’s competing with Schilling for the Glass House award.

I loved loved loved Simmons in the early 2000s. He’s awful now.
 

onthereg527

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“I don’t tend to get overly negative about sports” - Fred this morning around 7:12 saying possibly the funniest thing he’s ever said.
 

HarvardSqr

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After the WZLX morning show was suddenly dropped yesterday, I had suspicion that perhaps they were putting Rich on mornings there. So, I made a point of listening to ZLX at 6am this morning, and Rich's voice came on saying The Rich Shertenlieb Show starts in a matter of days.

Edit: He said something about all the bits you know being on the new show. I'm not much of a fan of T&H, and I think Rich's street audio and produced bits were the most important ingredient of T&R's success early on, but even I thought that his bits were getting stale in the last few years. I mean, if there was a great new 911 call, then it was wonderful, but weekly fart court wasn't actually funny. Also, I'm curious who else might be on the show as, aside from thinking that Rich isn't a great main host, based on the many Fred-less shows I listened to, I feel he wasn't as funny as Fred when riffing on stuff.
 
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onthereg527

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Not sure if anyone else has noticed it, but Fred has been doing a new voice lately that is SO similar to the way Stern does an impression of Bababooey/Gary that it is pretty blatant.

Fred just referenced he was doing a bad Bababooey, love it!
 

NewInTown

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This bit with Nick is the best of the new show. Something that wouldn't have happened on the old show because now people can actually make fun of each other without hard feelings. Hardy at his absolute best
 

8slim

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This bit with Nick is the best of the new show. Something that wouldn't have happened on the old show because now people can actually make fun of each other without hard feelings. Hardy at his absolute best
Funny... I turned off the stream 2-3 minutes into that. I found the opening to be slow and meandering, and then I was thinking to myself "do I really want to listen to them make fun of Nick yet again?". I mean, they've been ripping on Young Nicholas since the day I started listening to the show 10 years ago.
 

Granite Sox

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Yeah... just more of the same re ragging on Nick. Hardy is definitely more deft, but he needs to bring his own creativity to the show, not just recycle a hackneyed bit.

Fred is still a great interviewer, so I'll try and stay tuned for the regular guests that I enjoy (including Bob Beers, who is on now). Beers, Fluto (quasi-regular), Jaffe, Andrew Callahan (I think he's a great guest), and Breer on Fridays.

I know the general audience loves Mike Gorman, but I thought he was only "eh" as a guest the past couple of years. No disrespect to him, but as he aged he was more difficult to understand as he mumbled quite a bit on the radio. Now that Fred can't leg-hump him anymore, Ainge isn't around, PBOPSBS isn't on the show, and Mazzulla does middays, it will be interesting to see how they cover the Celts moving forward.

Outside of the interviews, I'm looking forward to giving Rich's new show a shot.

Edit: they just had Forsberg on. I like him as well.
 
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Andy Merchant

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I know the general audience loves Mike Gorman, but I thought he was only "eh" as a guest the past couple of years. No disrespect to him, but as he aged he was more difficult to understand as he mumbled quite a bit on the radio.
I've noticed the same thing about Gorman. I had a hard time following him when listening in the car where the audio quality isn't good as the online stream. No problem when he's doing the games though.