Trevor Story had surgery on his right UCL and is expected to miss time
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Per the soxprospects.com scouting report: "At second base, showed soft hands and fluid actions, though athleticism was somewhat wasted."
Considering his athleticism hasn't made up for his lack of instincts and weak arm, a move back to the infield might be worth exploring.
All internal options are on the table. Story was great at Second Base last year when he was available. Other than that, Arroyo, Hernandez and a couple of other guys filled in. I imagine that will be the case; so yeah, Duran should be a possibility. We have a team of utility players. I still think Justin Turner will play some infield other than Third.
I can think of no greater reason NOT to watch the Sox in '23 than having to watch that asshole Duran try and play center, and then make shitty excuses about it.
Remember this?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojr-_L3IHc4
Remember this?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojr-_L3IHc4
I think it's very fair to heavily weigh this injury into one's view of the overall contract because by all indications, this was not a surprise & it was known that he had arm issues when they signed him.
What I think is unfair, & medically spurious, is expecting him to have a longer recovery from his arm surgery because he got hit by a pitch & broke his hand, & then later in the same season got a bruised heal.
I just can't fathom that we'd go into '23 with Duran at CF and Kike at SS. That makes us demonstrably weaker both offensively and defensively. There's 3-ish months 'til Opening Day, we gotta make a trade to help here. Gotta.
I admittedly lost the plot on last years club after early august or so. What is the source of concern regarding Duran's attitude/mental approach, other than the vaccination issue? I don't love him as a player, think he's just a raw athlete with not very well refined offensive or defensive baseball skills, but curious about the attitude stuff. Again, I probably paid less attention to the team in the last two months of the season than I have in years. So mea culpa if I missed something that is now common knowledge.
I would think screaming and arguing with fans between pitches is more of an issue than his vaccination status
Duran shouldnt be on a Red Sox roster at any point this next year. Trade him for whatever we can get, hes not going to magically turn into Mookie or any other passable outfielder. Make him kansas city's problem.
"Reconstructed" doing a lot of work there. I'd guess he'll be like the now-hundreds of pitchers whose elbows were reconstructed. But at the same time I love him at 2b and feel like if you plan to change up a guy's career, and the plan is basically working, don't pull the plug on the plan. There's something to be said for stability, and 2b defense might be a bigger deal now without the shift.
He's not an asshole. He had anxiety issues. These guys are people, for fucks'sake. What if he no longer has anxiety issues? If someone pays a reasonable price for him, fine, trade him, but don't unload him for a bag of baseballs just because we were scarred by his performance last year. Not yet anyway.
I have depression and anxiety issues too. I've taken my medications for the last 10 years. They work great. I didn't say he's an asshole. I just don't think he's a good baseball player. I think he could possibly play for a different team that needs an outfielder. I just don't think he plays well for the Red Sox of Boston, MA. My opinion is nothing deeper than that.
It doesn't seem to be anxiety as much as being too hard on himself. This was an interesting read for me as I had missed this stuff the 1st time around:
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/08/boston-red-soxs-jarren-duran-opens-up-on-mental-toll-of-struggling-in-majors-ive-been-pretty-low-a-lot-of-fans-want-me-out-of-here.html
& makes me want to give him more of a shot (although I did just post the case for giving him a shot a couple days ago so I apparently already wanted to give him a shot when I thought he might be a bit more problematic than this paints him).
He's not the next Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle or even right fielder Roger Maris. You think Duran has anxiety and that's why he played like shit all year? Roger Maris lost most of his hair from the stress, anxiety, and threats to him and his family, but he still hit 61 home runs. Duran just sucks. So lets not try to label an mental condition that millions have as scapegoat to athletic performance.
Sorry for the one liner but there is a point behind it...Have Trevor Story and Gordon Hayward ever been seen in the same place at the same time?
The irony of this is thick for me and probably many others.
In Bloom's shoes last off season, I would have paid up for Kyle Schwarber, signed Iglesias for second (he was one of the Sox best players in September 2021) and passed all day on a guy whose numbers were inflated by his time in CO and was coming off a relatively down 2021. And I would have put much more emphasis on signing X.
Bloom passed on Schwarber, passed on Iglesias, signed on for $140 mm for Story and is now in a huge hole up the middle, with no Casas (50% odds at best to be ready) and a 38 year old Justin Turner at 1B/DH.
I get it. Schwarber is bad in the field, Story did well when healthy and Bloom could not have known that he would be a good Hayward comp.
But damn, for Bloom Doubters like me, this is just more of the same.
The irony of this is thick for me and probably many others.
In Bloom's shoes last off season, I would have paid up for Kyle Schwarber, signed Iglesias for second (he was one of the Sox best players in September 2021) and passed all day on a guy whose numbers were inflated by his time in CO and was coming off a relatively down 2021. And I would have put much more emphasis on signing X.
Bloom passed on Schwarber, passed on Iglesias, signed on for $140 mm for Story and is now in a huge hole up the middle, with no Casas (50% odds at best to be ready) and a 38 year old Justin Turner at 1B/DH.
I get it. Schwarber is bad in the field, Story did well when healthy and Bloom could not have known that he would be a good Hayward comp.
But damn, for Bloom Doubters like me, this is just more of the same.
Me too. Boston is a tough town on some guys. You'd think if they made it this far they'd have thick skin already, but everyone is different. Underneath that skin is a ballplayer, per all the evidence in his Minors campaigns. Should the Royals have cut bait on Greinke early in his career when he struggled? I have no idea if Duran can get past this but for people to just watch a couple highlights and just say "that guy sucks" is why I'm glad most commenters will never get near this team's front office.
Are you talking about the same player all of us have seen in the last few years? Sure Boston can be hard on players. But he is in the majors and alot of other teams would give shit to a player like Duran. He doesn't have the ability to be on a major league roster. This isn't about defending Duran, its about fielding a team that can actually play baseball. I don't know why you are on this hill that he deserves to start for the Red Sox.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/duranja01.shtml
Eh, OK, but the guy has 300 ABs in the majors and you want to label him "sucks"? Also the Maris comp is pretty off base. If Duran has trouble next year because he's stressed about breaking the HR record, then I too will downplay his condition or whatever you call it.
I'm on this hill because he was a highly rated prospect who has raked in the minors at all levels, including .840 OPS in 2022 at AAA. You want to rush to judgment on the guy and give him away. Awesome.
Alright, I'll bow out of this pointless argument of defending a guy that just can't cut it in the majors. You win. Since you can't see the off-sided comparison of a guy playing at an extremely high level getting a thousand more times pressure along with death threats, than a AAA player at best that cant hit, or field a ball. Its comparing Mike trout to you or me. Does that make sense or are you just dense? Whatever, I don't care that much more to try and point out the obvious that you are caulking up to a mental condition that me and millions of other have, which is primarily insulting to be honest.
OK, if you want to distinguish this from your definition of anxiety, I will defer to your view there.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/08/boston-red-soxs-jarren-duran-opens-up-on-mental-toll-of-struggling-in-majors-ive-been-pretty-low-a-lot-of-fans-want-me-out-of-here.html
But I won't defer to your view of a guy based on a couple tryouts in the majors, or the comparison to the experiences of a guy from 60 years ago. 90% of the criticism around here is founded in impatience. Baseball isn't like other sports. SOmetimes you have to wait a really long time.
And I still believe he is one. That article was bullshit. It was a puff piece designed to give us warm feelings about how hard it is to be a major leaguer while we're losing 7 out of 10 games.
His excuse for not hustling was that Verdugo was already moving towards the ball, but the truth is, Duran was much closer to the ball when it landed but made no effort. I'm going to repeat that. Made no effort. I'm in the stands with my $18 beer, the one thing I certainly hope for is that the guys on the team are actually trying.
Still, even if I give him a pass for his anxiety (and I don't), he still can't throw from center to a cut off man under three bounces, his routes to the ball are awful, and his OBP in his 330 plate appearances is .269
Franchy Cordero isn't a major league player, but his OBP in 700 + at bats is .290.
@opes is right. He's just not very good.
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Some cost more than that. Depends entirely on what kind of beer you're buying, just like anywhere else. Your basic Bud, Bud Light, Coors Light, etc can be had for less than $10 a cup. If you're buying the fancier stuff, the price goes up. This site says the most expensive is Sam Adams Utopia at $25 a bottle. It's also 27% ABV.
Craft beer yes. 24 ounce craft beers are $18 at venues in Massachusetts. I believe that the state sets event prices for alcoholic beverages.
Lets keep him in the lineup though, right. Even though we could find basically anyone else for peanuts that could even play slightly better. Your whole entire argument is based on mental health, not skill. And I see you are dense enough to not realize that's incredibly insulting. He just sucks. Mental health has nothing do with it. You want to give him a shot? Fine stick him in AAA for a another year, even though he will literally be 27 on September 5th. 27. If he cant play major league ball after 8 years in the minors, hes not going to make it for Christ sake. This isn't about trying to turn coal into diamonds, its about putting out the best team in the outfield in the majors.
First off, there’s a better chance Duran is not on the major league roster, maybe even in the organization, than not. So the argument is most likely moot anyways. Second, don’t downplay the mental health because you have no idea what he could be going through. Baseball is a mentally taxing game and I’m sure he does have some anxiety and other issues going on. Just because you have similar issues doesn’t mean it gives you the right to say others don’t based on your experiences. Maybe let things play out instead of making an ass of yourself.
I mean, one can be skeptical about Duran's future & very skeptical that he would be useful player in '23, but tons of players develop later, especially with no minors in '20.
& some of the criticisms read more personal than objective (for example Baseball Savant rates him as having 69th percentile outfield arm strength).
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jarren-duran-680776?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
Happy to trade the guy if another team values him, but if not? The rule changes should be good for a fast lefty who hits mostly grounders & if he's figured things out? Who knows. Definitely a bad plan A. But fine as a plan C.
& some of the criticisms read more personal than objective (for example Baseball Savant rates him as having 69th percentile outfield arm strength).
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jarren-duran-680776?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb
Happy to trade the guy if another team values him, but if not? The rule changes should be good for a fast lefty who hits mostly grounders & if he's figured things out? Who knows. Definitely a bad plan A. But fine as a plan C.
Considering Utopias retails for $240 a bottle, that’s a great deal. Hahaha
I know a lot of Story’s value is tied up in being a good middle infielder, but he really could be at DH in the majors much earlier than he could start at SS. Not sure how they will decide to go about the rehab, but it’s an option.
Not out of the realm of possibility he could be the on short end of that timeline (DH May or June) while he is starting to ramp up throwing. Then SS after the All-Star break.
Not out of the realm of possibility he could be the on short end of that timeline (DH May or June) while he is starting to ramp up throwing. Then SS after the All-Star break.
What are you basing this assessment of Casas on at all? I'm also unclear if you think he is 50% to be ready now, which seems like a made up number not backed up by what we saw last year, when he was ever going to be ready?
When did I say keep him in the lineup? I said wait and see if he develops this year. He's shown elite speed and power, you should be pretty sure before you give up on guys like that.
Rough justice. I think based on his uneven performance (reason for optimism and reason for concern) and the inherent volatility with many prospects that his success is kind of a jump ball. At least in 2023.
Didn’t Ohtani stick around as a DH while he was rehabbing from TJ or am I remembering that wrong?
He has a noticeably bad first step and no arm. Maybe the kid can hit someday, who knows, but he will be a below average centerfielder.
I don't think any depression or anxiety issues can account for his defense in centerfield.
Are you sure about that? I could’ve sworn that all beers were north of $10 when I was there in September.
This is spot on. I commend rebuilding the pipeline but the major league roster decisions are head scratching.
The trade market has been clogged up for months and probably will be another week or so, but something's gotta give in one of these situations:
Cleveland: I'd thought Cleveland trade Amed Rosario this offseason, slide Gimenez to short and make room for Rocchio and Freeman. They have eight middle infielders on their 40-man roster at the moment, many of them solid prospects (Rocchio, Arias, Freeman, Jose Tena, Angel Martinez and Juan Brito) they likely don't consider fungible.
Miami: We've been over this a bunch, but it seems inevitable they'd trade away someone from their Chisholm, Segura, Wendle,
Minnesota: They grabbed Kyle Farmer as a shortstop safety net as soon as free agency began. Now they've got Correa, Arraez, Polanco, Miranda as sure bets in the infield, a couple backups in Gordon and Farmer, and top prospects in Royce Lewis (returning midseason), Edouard Julien and Austin Martin. Not certain there's a surplus here, the Twins are good at managing this stuff, but Falvey said earlier they were planning to deal from the major-league roster (likely Kepler) and Farmer seems expendable with Correa in town. Nick Gordon had a great year at the plate in 2022, but he's not much of a shortstop these days.
Anaheim: Big infield cluster here with Rendon, Rengifo, Fletcher, Urshela and Drury vying for three spots (and no DH), with fungible backups Velazquez, Soto and Stefanic kicking around. Fletcher is a very weak hitter but a particularly ideal, but he's a solid defensive shortstop.
Kansas City: Bobby Witt is the future at shortstop, and Nicky Lopez is probably a good enough defensive second baseman to stick despite the punchless bat. That leaves the bat-first 2B/3B Michael Massey, 3B/OF speedster Nate Eaton, snakebit former top prospect Adalberto Mondesi and emerging SS Maikel Garcia. Plus Hunter Dozier, who probably still has a third base glove in his basement somewhere.
Chicago North: Not much of a bottleneck here but the Swanson add seemed to end their experiment with Nick Madrigal, with Nico Hoerner slotting as their full-time 2B the next three years, and the fairly useful Christopher Morel/Zach McKinstry utility team backing him up. Madrigal is an extreme player — an off-the-charts contact hitter (and solid defender) who may not have enough oomph in his bat for it to matter. Charitably to him, he battled leg, groin and back injuries all last year and reportedly didn't have his footing right. He may not be cut out for this version of the game, or he may be Marco Scutaro.
Milwaukee: Part of this is wishcasting, but maybe they see two years of team control of Willy Adames as their last best ticket to get out of the Yelich contract. In that case they'd supplant him with top shortstop prospect Brice Turang. It's worth mentioning that they acquired two 2B/3B types in Abraham Toro and Owen Miller, and still have Keston Hiura in the 2B mix as well. Luis Urias is the 3B, but can play a capable shortstop too. He's not the prize Adames is, but I'd be thrilled to get him for a reasonable cost, and I get the sense they might be down on him in Milwaukee.
Baltimore: They don't trade real players within the division, but they've got Mateo at short, Gunnar Henderson slated for third and newly signed Adam Frazier at second. That could leave Mateo or the other Urias brother, Ramon, without a full-time job. Mateo had a rough offensive year last year but Urias was pretty solid. Both likely lost a few homers from their decision to move the LF fence back (Urias had a 125 wRC+ on the road).
There are probably more, and then there are Andrus, Iglesias and Villar, whose asking prices are probably dropping now that the Dodgers found their shortstop. I'm guessing Bloom has several of these options tiered, and is waiting for one or more combinations to shake loose.
I'd say shortstop defense is a top priority. We're looking like a much more groundball-heavy pitching staff than last year. Bello, Whitlock, Sale, Houck, Martin and Winckowski are all heavy groundball pitchers; so are Paxton if he's the 2013-17 version and Kluber if he wants to be.
Well, we have a couple of guys in house that seem to be more in tune with these sorts of things than most of us so I was curious if SJH was privy to something that I hadn't seen yet. Thanks for chiming in.
And then the GM of the team just gave a presser saying they’re not counting on him this year, so you do the math.
This is the third injury he’s suffered since signing in Boston just one season ago and cumulatively they’ve cost him immense amounts of time over the first two years of his immense deal. Efforts to parse these injuries as not injury-prone or flukes miss the point. It’s the Sale discussion all over again.
I really don’t give a shit if anyone finds my takes odd. The $160 million man is once again on the shelf and the team will be adversely affected by that, and I am tempering my expectations of getting anything positive from that contract accordingly. It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that this signing has been truly regrettable.
If you wanna feel differently then go ahead.
This is the third injury he’s suffered since signing in Boston just one season ago and cumulatively they’ve cost him immense amounts of time over the first two years of his immense deal. Efforts to parse these injuries as not injury-prone or flukes miss the point. It’s the Sale discussion all over again.
I really don’t give a shit if anyone finds my takes odd. The $160 million man is once again on the shelf and the team will be adversely affected by that, and I am tempering my expectations of getting anything positive from that contract accordingly. It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that this signing has been truly regrettable.
If you wanna feel differently then go ahead.
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