I don't see it listed as abandoned, seeing it as 3-0 not the 2-0 it would be for a forfeit, I believe the ref simply used his discretion in stoppage time to end it.
USMNT Summer 2023: Memo's Mirror Gets Sharp
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you seem correct if this tweet is
View: https://twitter.com/nicocantor1/status/1669561106296344576?s=46&t=WNUE08imv33kOt1BO6WMzQ
That’s interesting. I am surprised that is a thing that can happen.
I guess nothing will happen. Mexico humiliated itself tonight but dragged our guys down in the mud too. Great result. But a little bittersweet to have to watch the federation yet again sit on its hands and not punish hate.
Yellow card for first offense in the game, red card for second offense, red card and opponent chooses which player has to come off for third offense. Let's see how long it keeps up then.
(I'd start with red but I know while all of the above is a pipe dream, going straight to red is the pipiest of pipe dreams)
(I'd start with red but I know while all of the above is a pipe dream, going straight to red is the pipiest of pipe dreams)
The three steps are actually toothless in a game like tonight where the fans can hate unbridled because they actually want the game to end and there is no consequence. They should lose the Panama game and have to play behind closed doors. That was a fucking embarrassment.
I assume CONCACAF didn't want to reward the fans who clearly were trying to get the match forfeited, and since stoppage time is by rule pure bullshit and entirely at the discretion of the ref he can call it whenever he wants.
I checked the CONCACAF Nations League rules, no indication of how added time would be handled, so I assume it defaults to FIFA laws of the game which last I can find was:
The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee. Now to prevent timewasting they have recently pushed refs to accurately track and use stoppage time, and some places like England's FA have rules that you can go over the amount you announce but not under, but generally it's all ref discretion absent a tournament or league rule.
Cesar Montes went to look for McKennie in the dressing room and they hit each other. The CONCACAF general secretary was present and a $ sanction is expected for the two federations.
I am happy that USA gets the result and the stats, but not if it means Mexico gets to avoid the condemnation that an abandonment would bring. But who am I kidding? They won’t do anything serious either way.
I always assumed that once the assistant shows the time that became official. But maybe not, or maybe the ref in a discrimination stoppage has discretion to decide how to allot the stoppage. Maybe it is as simple as that the ref decided the stoppage would be four minutes or longer and he would not extend the game for it, so the stoppage would bring the game to an end anyway. That wouldn’t be unreasonable.
US players will have to learn to rise above the shithousing. Teams are going to be baiting us every game when they don't believe they can win straight up. Just need to—within reason—rise above it, score goals, laugh in their face, and piss on their ashes.
That said, the officials (both on field and at the top of the federation) have to step in at some point and not just shrug and say "look what happened neither team has clean hands."
That said, the officials (both on field and at the top of the federation) have to step in at some point and not just shrug and say "look what happened neither team has clean hands."
Rehiring Berhalter is such insanity.
1) If this is what you were doing, why waste six months on this sham of a search?
2) Say whatever you want about the Reyna family (and they deserve it), this guy basically outed one of his biggest stars in front of the whole World Cup. Given how he handled the aftermath, its difficult to see a path to him resolving the issue.
3) His performance solely as coach was underwhelming at times. The teams showed a lack of flexibility and he seemed to hold grudges against players that would help him win games. They struggled to score goals for long stretches under Berhalter. People will give him credit for consistently beating Mexico but we saw the coach of Ursinus College beat Mexico soundly last night. They are a cratering team.
This team needed a new voice. Great win last night but this takes all the wind out of the sails for me.
1) If this is what you were doing, why waste six months on this sham of a search?
2) Say whatever you want about the Reyna family (and they deserve it), this guy basically outed one of his biggest stars in front of the whole World Cup. Given how he handled the aftermath, its difficult to see a path to him resolving the issue.
3) His performance solely as coach was underwhelming at times. The teams showed a lack of flexibility and he seemed to hold grudges against players that would help him win games. They struggled to score goals for long stretches under Berhalter. People will give him credit for consistently beating Mexico but we saw the coach of Ursinus College beat Mexico soundly last night. They are a cratering team.
This team needed a new voice. Great win last night but this takes all the wind out of the sails for me.
Passed out about 40 minutes in. Did I miss anything?
That was a beat down, plain and simple. I don’t know if this says more about the rise of the US or the likely short term decline of Mexico. The reds were unfortunate and the guys will have to do better. But the performance was top notch, and Mexico was embarrassing, players and fans included.
I’m still hoping for no GGG. It’s not so much what his system is, it’s his strict adherence to it. The two interim managers let the guys play without the restrictions, and I appreciated it.
That was a beat down, plain and simple. I don’t know if this says more about the rise of the US or the likely short term decline of Mexico. The reds were unfortunate and the guys will have to do better. But the performance was top notch, and Mexico was embarrassing, players and fans included.
I’m still hoping for no GGG. It’s not so much what his system is, it’s his strict adherence to it. The two interim managers let the guys play without the restrictions, and I appreciated it.
Anyone know where replays of this game will be available? Will a TV station have it or only Paramount+?
It 100% did. The Mexico fans were basically in shock the entire second half sitting on their hands. The only thing they cheered about were fights and the chant and thought it was hilarious.
Watching 95% of the crowd in complete helplessness and disgust while their country got beat down by the US was one of my all time favorite sporting events I’ve been to. I felt like a Blues fan in the TD Garden during game
7 only at an international level.
Had to teach last night so save the match for this morning. Helluva wake up call.
it shocking to see El Tri play so listlessly for the rivalry, especially on a night their fans were going hard - hard in a good way early on, but in a despicable way later. Maybe a new manager can light a fire under this team, but not a great way to start a cycle where they are automatically qualified.
I have no idea what the best shape of this squad is when Adams is healthy, and that’s a great problem to have. Gio provides so much for the attack in a central role, despite his penchant for stupid ass haircuts. It lets a front 3 just focus on doing what they do best and not try to create from wide positions or hold up play exclusively. And with Lucho coming over and Guti developing, there’s even some semblance of depth for the 10 role.
I guess it’s up to Gregg to sort out. I can’t muster the vitriol that people on Twitter are. But Charlie Davies can fuck off for complaining that having paying equity for MNT & WNT managers means we couldn’t attract a better option. The WNT actually needs to pony up for a better manager than Vlatko next cycle, and no one on the women’s side is going to blame Gregg if we can’t attract a better manager.
it shocking to see El Tri play so listlessly for the rivalry, especially on a night their fans were going hard - hard in a good way early on, but in a despicable way later. Maybe a new manager can light a fire under this team, but not a great way to start a cycle where they are automatically qualified.
I have no idea what the best shape of this squad is when Adams is healthy, and that’s a great problem to have. Gio provides so much for the attack in a central role, despite his penchant for stupid ass haircuts. It lets a front 3 just focus on doing what they do best and not try to create from wide positions or hold up play exclusively. And with Lucho coming over and Guti developing, there’s even some semblance of depth for the 10 role.
I guess it’s up to Gregg to sort out. I can’t muster the vitriol that people on Twitter are. But Charlie Davies can fuck off for complaining that having paying equity for MNT & WNT managers means we couldn’t attract a better option. The WNT actually needs to pony up for a better manager than Vlatko next cycle, and no one on the women’s side is going to blame Gregg if we can’t attract a better manager.
BTW a number of people have said that it also isn't true, there is no equity requirement for manager pay.
I'm a little worried about Gregg.. I think he's a poor in-match manager, and it's a little worrying they;ve looked better with interim managers. But.. a good chunk of the players seem to like him and man management is a big part of the job.
I agree that in-match adjustments are Berhalter's biggest weakness.
I am skeptical of the notion that Berhalter-ball will continue to be conservative, defensively-sound soccer that doesn't create many chances. I think the team played that way in large part because of their youth and inexperience with the particular challenges of the international game, and because the USMNT player pool didn't have great tactical options. Specifically, it was difficult to justify four attackers on the field because (a) we didn't have a suitable #10 in a 4-2-3-1 (Gio almost always injured) and (b) our forwards weren't good enough to justify a two-forward formation.
At this point, Gio is in the mix as a central attacker, and we may have some other options in the pipeline (Lucho if he gets US citizenship, Paxten Aaronson). The forward depth chart looks stronger than ever. Balogun is a huge recruit, Pepi is coming into his own as a high level player, and while guys like Sargent and Ferreira have frustrated fans, it's actually pretty nice to have them competing for #3 in the depth chart (along with others). They are still young enough to take an important half-step forward.
Basically, I think a lot (not all) of the frustration with Berhalter stems from impatience with the maturation of a very young player pool, rather than Berhalter himself. I'd have been perfectly happy if the USSF hired Vieira or someone like that, but I'm also fine with bringing Berhalter back.
I also think the Berhalter/Gio issues will be resolved in short order and that they'll have a functional relationship.
I am skeptical of the notion that Berhalter-ball will continue to be conservative, defensively-sound soccer that doesn't create many chances. I think the team played that way in large part because of their youth and inexperience with the particular challenges of the international game, and because the USMNT player pool didn't have great tactical options. Specifically, it was difficult to justify four attackers on the field because (a) we didn't have a suitable #10 in a 4-2-3-1 (Gio almost always injured) and (b) our forwards weren't good enough to justify a two-forward formation.
At this point, Gio is in the mix as a central attacker, and we may have some other options in the pipeline (Lucho if he gets US citizenship, Paxten Aaronson). The forward depth chart looks stronger than ever. Balogun is a huge recruit, Pepi is coming into his own as a high level player, and while guys like Sargent and Ferreira have frustrated fans, it's actually pretty nice to have them competing for #3 in the depth chart (along with others). They are still young enough to take an important half-step forward.
Basically, I think a lot (not all) of the frustration with Berhalter stems from impatience with the maturation of a very young player pool, rather than Berhalter himself. I'd have been perfectly happy if the USSF hired Vieira or someone like that, but I'm also fine with bringing Berhalter back.
I also think the Berhalter/Gio issues will be resolved in short order and that they'll have a functional relationship.
I haven’t been a GGG fan for a while now. I do think he should get credit for building this team and making them into a unit. At times, I think he got too much blame for the mistakes made due to the youth of the players (including from me) and not enough credit for good performances (again, including from me). The issue for me is that there is never a plan B. It’s not just in game adjustments. It’s he desire to play within his one system. Adams goes out, then Acosta goes in. No changes to tactics or formations. This is not to say he doesn’t change his system over time because he does do that, but he doesn’t deviate from the current one system. Contrast that with Canada who can play multiple ways. Does anyone have an idea how Canada will line up and play against the US? I’m also not as convinced as TB that there will be increased attacking creativity down the road from Gregg as his history hasn’t really shown that his teams can do so. Again this is not to say it won’t happen, but his track record hasn’t suggested it.
I think the in-game issues can be mitigated with a better scouting & match planning set up as well as more empowered coaches - at least hiring one coach with tactical nous that Gregg will listen to. And Crocker can use his position to push that issue in pre- and post-window meetings with Gregg.
In short, if Crocker wants this to be an area for growth for Gregg, he can push the issue and provide the necessary resources for it.
And Gregg doesn’t have as much leverage as a returning manager might in this spot - the long search process and Gio-gate undercut his standing a good bit, though the public backing of players is a huge plus for Gregg. Nonetheless, Crocker has a strong hand to bring new ideas and approaches into the system even with a returning Gregg, much of that is likely being negotiated as we type.
I’m being optimistic. Everyone can grow and improve. This isn’t Succession and Gregg isn’t our Kendall Roy. Or maybe he’s Cousin Greg…
In short, if Crocker wants this to be an area for growth for Gregg, he can push the issue and provide the necessary resources for it.
And Gregg doesn’t have as much leverage as a returning manager might in this spot - the long search process and Gio-gate undercut his standing a good bit, though the public backing of players is a huge plus for Gregg. Nonetheless, Crocker has a strong hand to bring new ideas and approaches into the system even with a returning Gregg, much of that is likely being negotiated as we type.
I’m being optimistic. Everyone can grow and improve. This isn’t Succession and Gregg isn’t our Kendall Roy. Or maybe he’s Cousin Greg…
I will be very curious to see what happens when everyone is fit for a match that matters (Copa next summer?) and of course to see how the next men up continue to develop.
Balogun and Pepi are already clear upgrades over the strikers in Qatar leaving the likes of Sargent/Ferreira/Dike/Pefok/Vazquez battling it out for the depth spots rather than the top spot. Luca is starter quality and can do progressive midfield stuff which is something we simply did not have on the bench. You don't have to throw Aaronson out there and pray he Tasmanian devils his way to a goal. And Gio. Those four represent a huge boost to the depth. In Qatar we basically only had Aaronson as a "maybe he can come in and do something" sub and everyone else was basically a "try to hold serve" option. Of course, some of that is thanks to roster choices. A lot of it is thanks to injury (LDLT unfit, McKennie hadn't a prayer of going 90, Gio limited). They also never trailed in the group stage which kind of lent itself to a more risk-averse approach anyway.
They have more horses now, with more in the pipeline, and nobody irreplaceable aging out. I fully reserve the right to thrash him moving forward but he is set up quite well to better develop strategies to accommodate a wider variety of scenarios since we don't have to qualify and don't really have to spend time figuring out who our top players are going to be for this cycle, aside from a few positional questions (CB, DM/LB depth). Yeah, I'll self-immolate if we get to the WC and are dominating possession against the Pot 4 team but running the same aimless BS in the final third and getting jazzed about how many miles Tyler Adams ran while Gio rides the pine until the 70th minute and we clench our asses through a shaky 1-0 victory, but for now I guess I am choosing hope because the talent and skill right now is nothing I have ever seen before here.
Balogun and Pepi are already clear upgrades over the strikers in Qatar leaving the likes of Sargent/Ferreira/Dike/Pefok/Vazquez battling it out for the depth spots rather than the top spot. Luca is starter quality and can do progressive midfield stuff which is something we simply did not have on the bench. You don't have to throw Aaronson out there and pray he Tasmanian devils his way to a goal. And Gio. Those four represent a huge boost to the depth. In Qatar we basically only had Aaronson as a "maybe he can come in and do something" sub and everyone else was basically a "try to hold serve" option. Of course, some of that is thanks to roster choices. A lot of it is thanks to injury (LDLT unfit, McKennie hadn't a prayer of going 90, Gio limited). They also never trailed in the group stage which kind of lent itself to a more risk-averse approach anyway.
They have more horses now, with more in the pipeline, and nobody irreplaceable aging out. I fully reserve the right to thrash him moving forward but he is set up quite well to better develop strategies to accommodate a wider variety of scenarios since we don't have to qualify and don't really have to spend time figuring out who our top players are going to be for this cycle, aside from a few positional questions (CB, DM/LB depth). Yeah, I'll self-immolate if we get to the WC and are dominating possession against the Pot 4 team but running the same aimless BS in the final third and getting jazzed about how many miles Tyler Adams ran while Gio rides the pine until the 70th minute and we clench our asses through a shaky 1-0 victory, but for now I guess I am choosing hope because the talent and skill right now is nothing I have ever seen before here.
If 2026 Gregg is as much better than 2022 Gregg as 2022 Gregg was than 2019 Gregg, we might have something
USSF continues to demonstrate that they are a giant joke. the 2026 World Cup is a once-in-a-generation opportunity and they went with the guy they just fired?
Forget Greggggg for a minute, what a waste of time and money with this sham search.
Forget Greggggg for a minute, what a waste of time and money with this sham search.
I’ve seen this a bunch. Who cares? They don’t have qualifying to prepare for. In the meantime they recruited a massive dual national. Even if they wanted GGG all along it was prudent to let the Reyna fervor die down.
What exactly was the opportunity cost of waiting?
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It seems clear that US Soccer did not quite anticipate the level of player support that GGG had. I was actually a bit surprised how deep it seems to be.
I don't know if you can trust players with something like this, but they know what is happening behind closed doors better than I do so if they are ok I am too. Whatever, it's done.
I don't know if you can trust players with something like this, but they know what is happening behind closed doors better than I do so if they are ok I am too. Whatever, it's done.
The other player who engaged with him was already on a red for the initial challenge.
Who "they" is has changed over time. Batson was new to the role, hired in late September 2022. Crocker was announced in mid-April 2023.
Berhalter wasn't fired; his contract expired as the USSF was conducting an investigation into the domestic violence incident from college. It would have been worse to pull the trigger on a new contract with unresolved questions about that than it is to re-hire him now.
I don't think it was a sham search. Batson has done some house-cleaning in other parts of the organization and I have no idea why he or Crocker would feel an imperative to be loyal to Berhalter for insiders-club reasons.
I think we need to be open to the possibility that they genuinely think he was the best available candidate for the job, when all things are considered including player opinion. And why not? He's not the greatest manager in the world, but most of the US fanbase underrates him by being melodramatic, and a lot of the US fanbase significantly overestimates the desirability of the USMNT job, particularly when the USSF may or may not have much of a budget. The world's top-tier managers are not signing up to coach the USMNT.
More on that theme which I enjoyed very much, in the buildup to the second goal.
View: https://twitter.com/bob_morocco/status/1669762697364398080
I hate to agree with this, but it’s distinctly possible. It’s impossible to know though without knowing the criteria, candidates interviewed, potential candidates who were not interested and so on.
The names who have been strongly linked to the job- Marsch, Vieira, Henry- leave me thinking GGG was the best of a “meh” field and leaving me wondering what the actual criteria was. I know Crocker wanted an ascending manager, but what else were they looking for? For the record, I don’t think that MLS experience was a requirement, but perhaps connection to the US?? Having lived in the country? I personally would have preferred someone with international managing experience and wonder if guys like Loew, Lopetegui, and Enrique were considered. Or if they were but said that they weren’t interested. I’m not a fan of GGG and didn’t want him back, but I can’t be too critical without knowing a lot more.
I will say that I find the whole “the players like him” angle a little curious. There are plenty of bad managers who were loved by many of their players and plenty of great ones loathed by many too. Hell, there’s a long list of former players who despise Pep including one who challenged him to an actual fight. CP’s experience of the managerial revolving door at Chelsea might make him want for a manager, any manager, to just stick around. I couldn’t care less if players like or dislike a manager. I do care if the manager makes decisions that improve the team’s chances of winning. I’m not convinced GGG does that, but I can say the same thing about all of the other names tossed around these last few weeks.
the players’ feelings on this should have more weight for a national side IMO, since man management and motivation are much bigger factors than tactical nous, relatively speaking, compared to club footy. I share the frustrations with GGG re: Xs and Os but even when we and other fans have slagged him we’ve acknowledged the lack of depth in the side. Maybe with a better squad and more options he won’t be such a Johnny one-note. That’s what I’m telling myself anyway.
I wonder if and how much the decision to bring back Berhalter is good for Reyna. I think Berhalter will work hard to repair that relationship. I also think Reyna's reputation will recover faster with the public and with his teammates if the two of them are productive together and put the past nonsense behind them.
I hope Reyna has the maturity to take advantage of the opportunity. It will be good for what should be a long career for him.
I hope Reyna has the maturity to take advantage of the opportunity. It will be good for what should be a long career for him.
I'm just glad we didn't have to send out for a wellness check on you. You sure picked a hell of a game to introduce yourself to international football.
What did you see out there? Fights in the stands? Were there some players they particularly loved or hated? Anything you noted about the play in the first half?
He's really just visually different out there, isn't he? He doesn't run with the ball, he glides. And he's a bit of a weirdo, yeah. So was Donovan.
I'm with the others who think that if he's healthy and performing for his club, Berhalter will give him the role he deserves. By next summer, it's possible Reyna is our best player, I think there's no way either of them can do anything but forgive and move on.
This cracked me up and deserved some love.
Re: Berhalter and Gio, he spoke on that and said the right things.
View: https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1669803071864700928
View: https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1669803071864700928
I thought the US job, with the build up to the next World Cup, would be a major draw. Seeing how this played out, that seems like a whiff. But why? Is the pay competitive? There are only a handful of teams that could be considered legit contenders in any world cup cycle (this is not the US) and most aren't looking for a new manager. The US is in that next group of teams and would seem to be a huge opportunity for a manager to vault themselves in to the spotlight. So I don't get it. The talent pool for managers cannot be so small as to make Berhalter a top candidate. Put differently, there is a zero percent chance that any other country who aspires to make it to the quarter finals in the next WC would even consider him as a hire.
In general, top tier managers aren’t that interested in managing national teams at all with occasional exceptions for their own country once they are older. Club jobs pay way better and they have more control there.
If the US wants a truly elite national team manager, we’re likely going to need to wait until we have an elite American manager and he’s gotten burned out on club football. Until then, it’s just a pool of guys.
If the US wants a truly elite national team manager, we’re likely going to need to wait until we have an elite American manager and he’s gotten burned out on club football. Until then, it’s just a pool of guys.
Having watch the full presser, just some things that have stood out to me:
Gregg spent quite a bit of time traveling in Europe to meet and brainstorm with other coaches. He did meet and speak with many USMNT players. He has not spoken with Gio, Pepi, or Steffen.
Crocker shared some of the criteria and the models used in the coaching search. It was very data driven. Based on what Crocker said was the focus, you can see how GGG would look good. The models were built on the recent trends of the USMNT like working with younger players, building a more attacking focus, and improved ELO rankings. At one point Crocker said (paraphrasing) “the models were built off what Gregg had been building so it’s not surprising he scored well.”
JT Batson said there were no financial considerations.
Crocker stated many times that this was not “business as usual” addressing the unspoken but highly thought of concern.
US Soccer was pretty adamant that they would not confirm who other candidates were.
GGG will not be coaching in the Gold Cup but will instead be working on “big ticket items” (strategic planning) with Crocker. Honestly looked to be a Crocker decision not a GGG one based on the fact Crocker answered the question.
There were a couple of points where Gregg had what I would call a “proud father” look on his face when talking about working with the players.
Gregg spent quite a bit of time traveling in Europe to meet and brainstorm with other coaches. He did meet and speak with many USMNT players. He has not spoken with Gio, Pepi, or Steffen.
Crocker shared some of the criteria and the models used in the coaching search. It was very data driven. Based on what Crocker said was the focus, you can see how GGG would look good. The models were built on the recent trends of the USMNT like working with younger players, building a more attacking focus, and improved ELO rankings. At one point Crocker said (paraphrasing) “the models were built off what Gregg had been building so it’s not surprising he scored well.”
JT Batson said there were no financial considerations.
Crocker stated many times that this was not “business as usual” addressing the unspoken but highly thought of concern.
US Soccer was pretty adamant that they would not confirm who other candidates were.
GGG will not be coaching in the Gold Cup but will instead be working on “big ticket items” (strategic planning) with Crocker. Honestly looked to be a Crocker decision not a GGG one based on the fact Crocker answered the question.
There were a couple of points where Gregg had what I would call a “proud father” look on his face when talking about working with the players.
Disappointed that they won't be confirming who the other candidates were. I'm sure some names will trickle out eventually though.
Very surprised that he won't be coaching the Gold Cup. He's got the rest of the year to work on "big ticket items", the summer is for tournaments. Hell, he won't even have a tournament every single summer anyway - we didn't in 2020 or 2022 (or in 2018
), and won't in 2025. Why couldn't he be bothered to coach the pool of B-teamers, including a bunch of up-and-comers, whom he'll need to get to know and give advice and homework to, and some of whom will end up on the big roster? Hell, why won't he be at least co-commander tomorrow night against Canada, helping Callaghan with what he knows from preparing for Canada in WCQ? This is kinda an inauspicious way to re-start the Gregg era, I gotta say.
Very surprised that he won't be coaching the Gold Cup. He's got the rest of the year to work on "big ticket items", the summer is for tournaments. Hell, he won't even have a tournament every single summer anyway - we didn't in 2020 or 2022 (or in 2018
), and won't in 2025. Why couldn't he be bothered to coach the pool of B-teamers, including a bunch of up-and-comers, whom he'll need to get to know and give advice and homework to, and some of whom will end up on the big roster? Hell, why won't he be at least co-commander tomorrow night against Canada, helping Callaghan with what he knows from preparing for Canada in WCQ? This is kinda an inauspicious way to re-start the Gregg era, I gotta say.