USMNT Summer 2023: Memo's Mirror Gets Sharp

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,461
I thought the US job, with the build up to the next World Cup, would be a major draw. Seeing how this played out, that seems like a whiff. But why? Is the pay competitive? There are only a handful of teams that could be considered legit contenders in any world cup cycle (this is not the US) and most aren't looking for a new manager. The US is in that next group of teams and would seem to be a huge opportunity for a manager to vault themselves in to the spotlight. So I don't get it. The talent pool for managers cannot be so small as to make Berhalter a top candidate. Put differently, there is a zero percent chance that any other country who aspires to make it to the quarter finals in the next WC would even consider him as a hire.
Yes, Berhalter can easily be a top candidate for the USMNT job.

As @Jimy Hendrix said, the top managers in the world don't take NT jobs because club soccer is more interesting and pays better. You only coach a dozen games a year sometimes, which is why it's a good gig for top managers who are in the twilight years of their careers.

You also see guys who are particularly passionate about their own NT so they're willing to spend prime years in the job. But even at elite NTs, the NT manager resume is often thin. Argentina just won the WC with a manager who had literally never been a first team manager in his career before. Spain just hired a guy with a youth background who spent the last decade with Spain YNTs. His club career consisted of being a youth coach, and being manager of Deportivo Alavés for four months before being fired.

Big NTs wouldn't consider Berhalter because big NTs tend to hire managers from their own country, and their managerial talent pools are large enough that foreigners rarely even enter consideration. But it doesn't really matter who Italy or Brazil would or wouldn't hire. The question is who is interested in the USMNT job, and like most NT jobs it just isn't that appealing to foreigners.

Is this super impressive-looking?

66097

Or this?

66098

World Cup semifinalists!

66099

The other World Cup semifinalists:

66100



Another factor is that although Berhalter isn't the best coach in the world, he may be better than you think.
 

rguilmar

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,699
Yes, Berhalter can easily be a top candidate for the USMNT job.

Another factor is that although Berhalter isn't the best coach in the world, he may be better than you think.
Can I just ask what it is that you think makes Gregg Berhalter a good manager? I agree that using the criteria set up by US Soccer GGG might have been the best available and willing option. But that doesn’t make him good. Feel free to disagree with me on anything below. That’s the beauty of the game- we’re free to see things differently.

Things I think he is good at:
Team culture- there is no doubt that he has been instrumental in building a brotherhood. Many players came out in support of Gregg and brought up this togetherness as a reason. That being said, he’s not perfect as the Gio situation showed. I do think those fences will be mended, but it put players in an uncomfortable position of having to comment on this as well violating “what’s said in the locker room stays in the locker room” code.

What I think he has improved at:
General tactics- Gregg has gotten better at the overall tactical approach for the USMNT over time. It’s been slow, but he has changed and he has improved. Sometimes we forget how the team tried to the play when GGG first took over, especially that Mexico game. Van Gaal spoke about how impressed he was with the drilling of the USMNT which I think is an extension of this. Broadly speaking, he has a vision for the US should play and gets the team to play that way. I do expect this to improve and change over time (though improvement in general can’t be just assumed). It’s still a work in progress though and I can’t say for sure that he will ever be good at this.

Things I think GGG is not good at:
Alternate and in game tactics- this is both in having any sort of effective Plan B if Plan A isn’t working and in game alterations. Often his substitutions come too late or don’t make a difference. I don’t consider the Honduras game any proof to the contrary as that game was simply cleaning up his own mess. Gregg has been a one trick pony and has shown no indication of changing. I believe Van Gaal also mentioned this predictability in his post game presser too. We know how the US will attack and defend. Sometimes it’s like beating our heads against a brick wall. It’s not going to work, but we’re just going to keep doing it anyways.
Attacking creativity- obviously the players need to shoulder some of the blame here too, but all too often the US was easily forced out wide and dumped in easy to defend crosses. I’m sure folks will defend him by saying that he didn’t have a striker, but again we can’t just assume things will get better when GGG has a track record of poor attacking creativity. His club in Sweden gave that as a reason for canning him too. Gregg has said that he doesn’t need his 9 to score goals but rather to fit into the system. Beyond that, Pepi has been scoring and was readily available for the World Cup. But even so, when I watch the US I just consistently see a team with no attacking identity, a team that’s easy to defend, a team that doesn’t score goals, and a team that finds it difficult to create chances.

Things I am still annoyed about that others can rightfully disagree with:
The decision to play that frigid game at home against Honduras. It still feels like an unnecessary risk against an inferior opponent that could have helped level the playing field and put both players and fans at risk.
The constant “road games in CONCACAF are hard” refrain. Even if that is true, GGG saying it and players repeating cannot have a positive impact going into these games. It just is a defeatist attitude to me, and this coming from a coach who was so concerned about what players heard and how it impacted their psyche that he called the performance in the Canada loss “dominant”.

In terms of results, the team won the Nations League and Gold Cup. I think the results glossed over some uneven performances but YMMV. But wins are wins and that Nations League final was epic. Ultimately the only things that matter to me are qualifying and World Cup performances. In qualifying the USMNT finished third, ahead of the play-in position of 4th only on goal differential. Based on talent alone, at the very least I thought the US was better than Mexico and probably better than Canada as I think Herdman has gotten more out of his squad than Berhalter has out of the US. In the World Cup the US got out of a decently easy group before losing 3-1 in the knockout rounds to a world powerhouse. The performances again were uneven, but I thought that US looked really good against England. All in all, with a very talented but very young team this gets a “met basic expectations” or, if I were still a teacher, a C. I would have expected the US to do better in qualifying especially with a weakened Mexico and a very inexperienced (in terms of high level soccer) Canada finishing higher. I think anyone would have considered finishing behind Wales or Iran to be a failure. So in the end I’m not seeing how GGG positively impacted performances. To me, he’s merely ok.

To be fair, we don’t know who the other options were. We know Bielsa was out there to be hired because Uruguay signed him. I haven’t seen the full details of that contract but in the past the USMNT coach has had a higher salary than Uruguay. I’m not a huge Bielsa fan but I’d take him over Gregg 11/10. A couple of other names who might have been available, just to show my Spanish bias, are Luis Enrique and Julen Lopetegui. Enrique managed what I’m on record as saying is an overrated Spanish national team for the last cycle and was bounced out of the World Cup by Morocco. He does have experience working with younger players and identified the strengths of players like Gavi before their clubs did. Again, I’m not super high on him but would easily take him over Gregg. I was always high on Lopetegui. Spain were undefeated with him at the helm from 2016-18. He was fired for a monumentally dumb career decision just before the World Cup, but in terms of international success as a manager he’s tough to beat as he definitely got a lot out of that team. He’s under contract at Wolves for one more season but has made rumblings about getting out early (my gut was that this was a signal to US Soccer as this job was one he wanted in the past). I would think that Low was a possibility too, but I’m not sure. Whatever the case, based on the criteria set down by Crocker, I imagine that all of these managers were weeded out. So my problem is likely more with the criteria than anything.

Look, I do agree that once the field was narrowed that GGG was likely the best option. Vieira, Marsch, and Henry don’t do it for me. I just find it hard to believe that a data-based worldwide search of all the managers in the world spit out Gregg as the best option. He’s ok. He might get better. But for me he’s a gentleman’s C of a manager and I don’t doubt for a second that we could have found someone better if everything that US Soccer said was true. I’d be more than happy to be proven wrong.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,461
Can I just ask what it is that you think makes Gregg Berhalter a good manager? I agree that using the criteria set up by US Soccer GGG might have been the best available and willing option. But that doesn’t make him good. Feel free to disagree with me on anything below. That’s the beauty of the game- we’re free to see things differently.

Things I think he is good at:
Team culture- there is no doubt that he has been instrumental in building a brotherhood. Many players came out in support of Gregg and brought up this togetherness as a reason. That being said, he’s not perfect as the Gio situation showed. I do think those fences will be mended, but it put players in an uncomfortable position of having to comment on this as well violating “what’s said in the locker room stays in the locker room” code.

What I think he has improved at:
General tactics- Gregg has gotten better at the overall tactical approach for the USMNT over time. It’s been slow, but he has changed and he has improved. Sometimes we forget how the team tried to the play when GGG first took over, especially that Mexico game. Van Gaal spoke about how impressed he was with the drilling of the USMNT which I think is an extension of this. Broadly speaking, he has a vision for the US should play and gets the team to play that way. I do expect this to improve and change over time (though improvement in general can’t be just assumed). It’s still a work in progress though and I can’t say for sure that he will ever be good at this.

Things I think GGG is not good at:
Alternate and in game tactics- this is both in having any sort of effective Plan B if Plan A isn’t working and in game alterations. Often his substitutions come too late or don’t make a difference. I don’t consider the Honduras game any proof to the contrary as that game was simply cleaning up his own mess. Gregg has been a one trick pony and has shown no indication of changing. I believe Van Gaal also mentioned this predictability in his post game presser too. We know how the US will attack and defend. Sometimes it’s like beating our heads against a brick wall. It’s not going to work, but we’re just going to keep doing it anyways.
Attacking creativity- obviously the players need to shoulder some of the blame here too, but all too often the US was easily forced out wide and dumped in easy to defend crosses. I’m sure folks will defend him by saying that he didn’t have a striker, but again we can’t just assume things will get better when GGG has a track record of poor attacking creativity. His club in Sweden gave that as a reason for canning him too. Gregg has said that he doesn’t need his 9 to score goals but rather to fit into the system. Beyond that, Pepi has been scoring and was readily available for the World Cup. But even so, when I watch the US I just consistently see a team with no attacking identity, a team that’s easy to defend, a team that doesn’t score goals, and a team that finds it difficult to create chances.
I agree that in-game tactics are his worst area as a manager.

I think his lack of tactical flexibility has been overstated. There's a lot of "Berhalter tried to fit square pegs into round holes" type criticisms from last cycle. This description of what the USMNT did has a lot of truth to it, but it also doesn't take into account that square pegs and round holes were mostly what Berhalter had.

For me, the fundamental problem last cycle was that the 4-3-3 with an MMA setup was really defensively sound, but it didn't get enough creativity on the field. The problem is that getting creativity on the field was actually a really vexing challenge for which there arguably was no real solution. 4-2-3-1? Great, but who plays the 10? Not Gio, who was injured for most of the cycle. Experiment with Pulisic playing centrally? You don't get the best out of him. Aaronson as a 10? He's a pressing maniac, not an orchestrator. Play a 4-4-2? Everyone hates Ferreira, Sargent was horribly out of form, Pepi didn't score a goal for almost a year, Dike injured a lot, Pefok doesn't offer much, etc. Hard to bench one of MMA just to get two forwards on the field.

I'm more optimistic than most that we'll see more variety this cycle because we have more options. Gio's back (I highly doubt he's going to get banished by GGG), we have some other options at the 10 percolating, the forward situation looks much better, etc.


I'm also optimistic because even though it didn't all come together, the team played really good quality soccer in the World Cup. I think in the overall analysis, people are getting ahead of themselves and losing patience in what was always going to be a long-term project. 2022 was the rebuilding cycle and I think the USMNT did pretty well considering our player pool started from virtually nothing and we had a ton of young, inexperienced players. I'm also encouraged by the fact that the bulk of the team's core also clearly has a strong desire to continue the building the project post-2022.



Final side note: Van Gaal's comments were initially ripped out of context and portrayed as a criticism when they were actually a compliment toward Berhalter.
 

Yo La Tengo

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2005
926
In general, top tier managers aren’t that interested in managing national teams at all with occasional exceptions for their own country once they are older. Club jobs pay way better and they have more control there.

If the US wants a truly elite national team manager, we’re likely going to need to wait until we have an elite American manager and he’s gotten burned out on club football. Until then, it’s just a pool of guys.
I understand there is a limited pool but I'm surprised where things ended up and I anticipated the US would land a big name by spending a ton of money.

Hopefully Berhalter exceeds expectations, but it would have been really interesting if the federation had opened the vault and landed someone like Joachim Low.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,949
I understand there is a limited pool but I'm surprised where things ended up and I anticipated the US would land a big name by spending a ton of money.

Hopefully Berhalter exceeds expectations, but it would have been really interesting if the federation had opened the vault and landed someone like Joachim Low.
I doubt they had any real consideration of that type of manager
Seems like the options were Gregg, Marsch and a couple American MLS guys
 

Yo La Tengo

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2005
926
I doubt they had any real consideration of that type of manager
Seems like the options were Gregg, Marsch and a couple American MLS guys
Why would they not have considered “that type of manager?” What are we waiting for?

The US is hosting the World Cup and have a roster of talented and to-be-developed players. The US will be the focal point of the world in 2026, so it would be a perfect launching pad for a motivated manager.

Seemed like the perfect opportunity to go all in, right?
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,949
Why would they not have considered “that type of manager?” What are we waiting for?

The US is hosting the World Cup and have a roster of talented and to-be-developed players. The US will be the focal point of the world in 2026, so it would be a perfect launching pad for a motivated manager.

Seemed like the perfect opportunity to go all in, right?
Maybe. But the leaked list of people they considered fit right into the profile they allegedly had when they hired Greg:
1. American Experience
2. Fluent/Native English speaker
3. Willing to move to Chicago
4. Significant connection to USSF.
 

Arroyo Con Frijoles

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
1,172
If that's the case that would be pretty disappointing, but I think it's more likely that no one who is "that type of manager" was interested, and they decided Gregg was the best of those who were.
 

rguilmar

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,699
Maybe. But the leaked list of people they considered fit right into the profile they allegedly had when they hired Greg:
1. American Experience
2. Fluent/Native English speaker
3. Willing to move to Chicago
4. Significant connection to USSF.
This right here is the problem. How is US Soccer ever going to move beyond this incestuous cesspool that it has become if the criteria is so limited that the only candidates who will be considered fit that profile?
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,861
This right here is the problem. How is US Soccer ever going to move beyond this incestuous cesspool that it has become if the criteria is so limited that the only candidates who will be considered fit that profile?
They just hired a sporting director without #4 and with the barest “I spent a summer here” fig leaf of #1, so I don’t know if those were still the criteria. No argument that they were bad criteria in 2019 though.
 

Yo La Tengo

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2005
926
Do other countries screen/interview for a manager like this? Is there evidence that this works?

Are established coaches from around the world willing to engage in 6 months of screening/interviewing, including 10 hours of this?

“Everything from psychometrics (the science of measuring mental capacities) to abstract reasoning tests, logical thinking, to tests where candidates had the opportunity to prepare for certain elements around strategy and what they would do, how they would evolve the team, and then certain tests where they just literally had to deliver under pressure on that moment in time,” Crocker said. “It gave us an opportunity to get real rich data, and then it took us a period of time to sit down and effectively tune all of these numbers, but what I’m delighted to say is on every step of the way, Gregg scored phenomenally and we’re really excited to have him here.”

Crocker mentioned that the candidates were not required to be from the US and there was not a preemptive salary cap used to screen.

Stepping back, I have to think that the process likely eliminated some candidates from being interested, which seems like a red flag. And, from the remainder, Crocker really believes in Berhalter. He did not know him prior to the interview process and it would have been much easier to bring in a new guy. He has set himself up for a lot of criticism if Berhalter flops.
 
Last edited:

rguilmar

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,699
They just hired a sporting director without #4 and with the barest “I spent a summer here” fig leaf of #1, so I don’t know if those were still the criteria. No argument that they were bad criteria in 2019 though.
This is probably what is so deflating for me. They clearly hired an outsider in Crocker with the idea (hope??) of changing the culture within US Soccer. There has been a degree of house cleaning. And who do they hire to lead the USMNT? The man who personified the problems with US Soccer from his hiring to the debacle with the Reynas (not blaming GGG for the actions of the Reynas, just that the entire situation was caused by the insular nature of US Soccer). There’s a reason Crocker said “This isn’t business as usual” so many times at the press conference. Because it sure as hell looks like it. I really wanted to see an outsider. It certainly looks like a strong connection to US Soccer and/or MLS was a requirement. Contrast that with Brazil who very much wanted (and still want?) Ancelloti.
 

Mr. Wednesday

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 27, 2007
1,597
Eastern MA
The constant “road games in CONCACAF are hard” refrain. Even if that is true, GGG saying it and players repeating cannot have a positive impact going into these games. It just is a defeatist attitude to me, and this coming from a coach who was so concerned about what players heard and how it impacted their psyche that he called the performance in the Canada loss “dominant”.
I think this is not correct. Maybe the handling in the media is suspect, but Berhalter absolutely should be discussing the difficulty of the road games before they start to inoculate the players against a negative reaction when they're hit with the conditions. (Then he should be following it up with all of the reasons why they will be able to withstand and overcome it. If there is a problem, I think it's more likely with the latter than the former.)

The link below is about a completely different context, but I was really struck by the significance (especially psychologically) of the makeup of a standard "pre-battle speech" which I think is also on point here---the whole piece is pretty long, but the part about the battle speech is easy to find:
https://acoup.blog/2020/06/12/collections-the-battle-of-helms-deep-part-vii-hanging-by-a-thread/
 

rguilmar

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,699
I think this is not correct. Maybe the handling in the media is suspect, but Berhalter absolutely should be discussing the difficulty of the road games before they start to inoculate the players against a negative reaction when they're hit with the conditions. (Then he should be following it up with all of the reasons why they will be able to withstand and overcome it. If there is a problem, I think it's more likely with the latter than the former.)

The link below is about a completely different context, but I was really struck by the significance (especially psychologically) of the makeup of a standard "pre-battle speech" which I think is also on point here---the whole piece is pretty long, but the part about the battle speech is easy to find:
https://acoup.blog/2020/06/12/collections-the-battle-of-helms-deep-part-vii-hanging-by-a-thread/
I tend to agree generally, I just don’t like it when the manager and the players repeat it when the US loses on the road. It just rubs me the wrong way. Like I said, it’s more of a personal thing and I’d rather not have it repeated by players, but that could just be me.

I’d rather the message be “Winning on the road in soccer is hard. It’s intimidating. That’s true in Mexico, in Rome, and in London. But the game is played between those lines, and between those lines we are the better team. You’ve all done this before.”
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,461
I tend to agree generally, I just don’t like it when the manager and the players repeat it when the US loses on the road. It just rubs me the wrong way. Like I said, it’s more of a personal thing and I’d rather not have it repeated by players, but that could just be me.

I’d rather the message be “Winning on the road in soccer is hard. It’s intimidating. That’s true in Mexico, in Rome, and in London. But the game is played between those lines, and between those lines we are the better team. You’ve all done this before.”
Side note, it's kind of insane that for the next five years, the only competitive away games the USMNT will play will be...what, the away leg of the CONCACAF Nations League quarterfinal knockouts in the new format? And maybe the SF/F if it is for some reason not hosted in the US?

Home Gold Cups, home Copa America, home WC, no WCQ. Low-stakes WCQ for 2030 should start in ~2028 and maybe we'll have a South America-hosted Copa America to play in as well.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,461
A few hiring tidbits that I'm paraphrasing from reasonably reputable (though not journalist) sources on a discord:
  • Marsch thought he had the job (not sure whether or not he truly had reason to believe this, but fwiw)
  • Crocker was impressed by Berhalter's honesty and candidness about his shortcomings last cycle in his self-evaluation during the interview process
  • 50+ coaches contacted by the USSF were not interested in the job (but I don't know what the denominator is, so I don't know what % declined to show interest)
 

Yo La Tengo

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2005
926
So whatever you think of Berhalter, the stuff out of the Press Conference makes it clear that Crocker has not changed that USSF is not run by serious people.
https://www.backheeled.com/what-gregg-berhalter-learned-during-his-time-away-from-the-usmnt-work-to-do-with-reyna-tactics/

Crocker noted that a majorly component of evaluating managers was a data model.... Designed in large part by Berhalter.....

This is such a baffling situation (from that link):

Crocker’s hiring process used a data model based on pressing metrics, team age, and on-field performance, and other factors to identify candidates. He mentioned that Berhalter “pretty much set the data model” during the previous World Cup cycle, which was a curious note to add while the federation attempts to convince the public that Berhalter was the best possible candidate for the job.
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,861
Changing the topic a bit, Behind the Crest is out. We get to see The Bleaching.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVqoPwJmxv4


Definitely seems like Pulisic has become more of a vocal leader.
Spoiler tagging because I think it's the line of the video and people should see it there first

Aaronson saying that they looked like Fortnite skins, which he would purchase destroyed me. Extremely powerful older brother insult that is sort of a compliment energy there.
 

rguilmar

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,699
Hot rumor is that Miles Robinson is out tonight with an injury. Bummer if true because I thought he looked really good against Mexico.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,293
Pittsburgh, PA
I would've wanted Zimmerman / Richards anyway, just to compare how that pairing looks relative to Richards / Miles.

Kinda doubt we see Auston Trusty make a full start in a game like this, but I wouldn't mind seeing what he's got, either.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,562
This is such a baffling situation (from that link):

Crocker’s hiring process used a data model based on pressing metrics, team age, and on-field performance, and other factors to identify candidates. He mentioned that Berhalter “pretty much set the data model” during the previous World Cup cycle, which was a curious note to add while the federation attempts to convince the public that Berhalter was the best possible candidate for the job.
Are there any other Berhalters who can hire GGG for the next cycle? So far he has been hired by his brother and himself…
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,461
Are there any other Berhalters who can hire GGG for the next cycle? So far he has been hired by his brother and himself…
I don't think this is all that fair. Batson and Crocker are not typical insider-y USSF types who came from the interconnected web of NJ-oriented relationships. They have no reason to have any particular loyalty to GGG or put their finger on the scale.

Re-hiring GGG may or may not be the right move, but my viewpoint is that a relative outsider (Crocker) genuinely decided that GGG was the strongest available candidate. Judge Crocker as you will for this.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,293
Pittsburgh, PA
I'm told one of Canada's CBs just got relegated to the 3.Liga. so let's maybe go after him? And keep it away from that scary front line?
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,239
Despite what the announcer dude just said, Canada is not the favorite just because the topped the WCQ group.
 

speedracer

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,837
if canada’s gonna high press us, think we just need to get the ball upfield quickly and go after their crappy back line
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,293
Pittsburgh, PA
Despite what the announcer dude just said, Canada is not the favorite just because the topped the WCQ group.
no, they're the favorite because 2 of our top 5 players are suspended for varying levels of bullshit. AND because they looked to be the better team the last two times we played them.

We could absolutely win, but they are on a hot streak right now within the region.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,461
I'm told one of Canada's CBs just got relegated to the 3.Liga. so let's maybe go after him? And keep it away from that scary front line?
Good thinking. Balogun absolutely cooked this guy to set up the corner kick leading to Richards goal.