Vazquez Placed On The 60 Day DL

bombdiggz

bombdiggz

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 28, 2006
995
Burlington, VT by way of Canton, MA
This is horrible news. I was really looking forward to Vasquez shutting down the running game this year.

I do think we should look to bolster the Hannigan/Quintero corps. I'm in love with Hanigan as s backup and I don't want to see Quintero's name penciled in at all. I'd be very intrigued to see how comfortable Houston felt with Gattis behind the dish and if they might be willing to part ways with Castro at a reasonable price.

Also, I haven't heard anything about A.J. Pierzynski this offseason, could we bring him in?

/ducks/
 
Darnell's Son

Darnell's Son

He's a machine.
Moderator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,614
Providence, RI
I don't think Gattis has caught at all in spring training. His GM said he may catch later in the year but the plan is that he'll mostly be a DH and LF.
 
 
Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow said Thursday that Evan Gattis will mostly play left field and serve as the team's designated hitter but could see some work at catcher as well, MLB.com reports.
"He will catch some, probably later in season," Luhnow said.
Gattis will slot in as the team's third catcher in addition to his regular role after coming to the team from the Braves thi
Click to expand...
 
Just a side note, this stuff can be looked up on Google.
 
mauf

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 22, 2008
36,227
The Sox picked up Quintero specifically to cover this sort of contingency, so I have to imagine he'll be the backup catcher.
 
Speier thinks Zeke Spruill would be the 40-man casualty -- are there other candidates?
 
judyb

judyb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
4,444
Wilmington MA
The Sox picked up Quintero specifically to cover this sort of contingency, so I have to imagine he'll be the backup catcher.
 
Speier thinks Zeke Spruill would be the 40-man casualty -- are there other candidates?
Click to expand...
This sounds like it's likely to take long enough that just putting Vazquez on the 60 day DL probably makes more sense than losing anyone over it.
 
twibnotes

twibnotes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,434
Mark me down for a don't-rush-Swihart vote. This team has its share of question marks. I wouldn't do anything that is bad for what I hope to be the future core of the team: Betts, X, Castillo, Swihart.

If we are in the race at the ASB, and Swihart has torn up AAA, then maybe you have a nice second half acquisition. For now, find a decent defensive option to back up Hanigan.
 
mauf

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 22, 2008
36,227
judyb said:
This sounds like it's likely to take long enough that just putting Vazquez on the 60 day DL probably makes more sense than losing anyone over it.
Click to expand...
If Vazquez has surgery, you're right. If he opts to try rest and rehab, it's a tougher call; there's still a good chance he misses at least two months, but I'm not sure you'd give up even an outside chance of getting a couple productive weeks from Vazquez at the end of that 60-day period to retain control over a guy who's likely to get DFA'd later anyway.
 
czar

czar

fanboy
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
4,318
Ann Arbor
jasvlm said:
No matter what the 2nd MRI shows, if the ligament is torn, he'll have surgery almost certainly.  That way, he'll be ready to go early in 2016, perhaps by April.  If they wait to have him try to play through it, and he's on the DL until he is able to play, we're still talking about mid May at the earliest.  Then, if he has a setback, or the ligament won't allow him to throw as he needs to, not only does he miss the rest of 2015, but a big chunk of 2016 as well.  If the UCL is injured, let him have surgery, and let Hanigan/Quintero share duties.  I still favor using Swihart right away IF the coaching staff feels he is big league ready defensively.  If they do not, then send him to AAA, hope he hits and learns to play defense, and then bring him up midseason.  Sometimes making a bold move works out, especially when you are trying to win now.
Click to expand...
I assume the red is a (now corrected) typo.

It's worth noting that position players don't need as much time as pitchers to recover from TJS. Even if you consider C "worst case" for position players getting TJS, Matt Wieters had surgery in late June of last year and has been catching in ST (although they may start him on the DL for a week or two).

So at this point in the season, unless TJS is absolutely needed, it seems reasonable to rest/rehab for a couple months and see how Vazquez responds. Assuming we are talking UCL damage.
 
jasvlm

jasvlm

New Member
Nov 28, 2014
177
czar said:
I assume the red is a (now corrected) typo.

It's worth noting that position players don't need as much time as pitchers to recover from TJS. Even if you consider C "worst case" for position players getting TJS, Matt Wieters had surgery in late June of last year and has been catching in ST (although they may start him on the DL for a week or two).

So at this point in the season, unless TJS is absolutely needed, it seems reasonable to rest/rehab for a couple months and see how Vazquez responds. Assuming we are talking UCL damage.
Click to expand...
Yes, typo.  My bad.  What about Max Stassi, the Houston catcher?  He just got farmed out to AAA.  He might be an option, considering he has a bit of offensive upside, and appears blocked in Houston.  Would a Workman/Stassi deal make sense for both sides?
 
T

TigerBlood

Banned
Mar 10, 2011
330
twibnotes said:
Mark me down for a don't-rush-Swihart vote. This team has its share of question marks. I wouldn't do anything that is bad for what I hope to be the future core of the team: Betts, X, Castillo, Swihart.

If we are in the race at the ASB, and Swihart has torn up AAA, then maybe you have a nice second half acquisition. For now, find a decent defensive option to back up Hanigan.
Click to expand...
 
This. Pretty clear 2015 is not the targeted year for this squad. It will be a fun year to watch, but a lot of unknowns in the rotation, the bullpen and the slew of young developing talent. No need to push any more chips in the middle than necessary. 
 
Red(s)HawksFan

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,042
Maine
ivanvamp said:
 
Dr. Andrews is no spring chicken.  Who will be the absolute go-to guy for this once he is gone?
Click to expand...
 
Wasn't Dr. Frank Jobe the go-to (and originator of) Tommy John surgery before he passed away?  Jobe was also at the forefront of shoulder repair/reconstruction, which is where Andrews really made his bones.  I'm sure someone will emerge as the next go-to for these surgeries.  It's not as though Andrews is the only one who can do it, he's just the "best".
 
koufax32

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,141
Duval
RedOctober3829 said:
Is everybody writing off Swihart being the starter in Boston?  If today is the OD starting lineup, Farrell hasn't.
Click to expand...
I thought about this too until I noticed the sp was B. Johnson who will be the battery mate of the starting catcher in Pawtucket.
 
E5 Yaz

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,968
Oregon
RedOctober3829 said:
Is everybody writing off Swihart being the starter in Boston?  If today is the OD starting lineup, Farrell hasn't.
Click to expand...
 
Farrell also said that it would be more about who's handling the pitchers than any consideration on offense, and praised Swihart's growth there:
 
“But I think as we’ve gotten through camp, Blake has been able to handle the pitchers we have here. He’s worked diligently on some pitches in certain areas of the strike zone … more receiving and framing, polishing could take place, and that’s ongoing. So he’s a good-looking player, very athletic. He can swing the bat. He throws very well.
“He’s learning the pitcher, first and foremost. I haven’t seen him enough in games to say where he would rank on a leadership scale. He’s a smart kid. He’s got good retention. I think he’s a fairly quick study. That’s what he’s shown here, so that area is not a detriment. I can say that.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/42506/christian-vazquez-to-get-second-opinion-on-throwing-elbow?ex_cid=espnapi_public
 
But I wouldn't take anything out of today's lineup ... since Swihart was catching a pitcher he'd likely see in the Pawtucket rotation.
 
The one thing we can agree on is that no one wants to see Swihart sitting on a bench most of the time
 
DaveRoberts'Shoes

DaveRoberts'Shoes

Aaron Burr
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2005
4,271
OR 12
ivanvamp said:
 
Dr. Andrews is no spring chicken.  Who will be the absolute go-to guy for this once he is gone?
Click to expand...
You know I can read this, right?
 
In all seriousness, it's not really a complicated surgery - the indications and the rehab are tough, but technically it's not too challenging.  There are already a number of guys across the country who do a ton of these (Altchek in New York, Kremchek in Cincy, a few guys on the west coast) - lots of people go to Andrews because he has for so long been the "gold standard", players and agents have established relationships with him, and he's a really nice guy as well.  When he retires, I bet you'll see the referral patterns for UCL surgery get a little more spread out.
 
doc

doc

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,501
Isn't recovery from TJ surgery shorter for non pitchers? I have read that but can't find a reliable source to quote. Writers had TJ last June and is expected in late April
 
twibnotes

twibnotes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,434
DaveRoberts'Shoes said:
You know I can read this, right?
 
In all seriousness, it's not really a complicated surgery - the indications and the rehab are tough, but technically it's not too challenging.  There are already a number of guys across the country who do a ton of these (Altchek in New York, Kremchek in Cincy, a few guys on the west coast) - lots of people go to Andrews because he has for so long been the "gold standard", players and agents have established relationships with him, and he's a really nice guy as well.  When he retires, I bet you'll see the referral patterns for UCL surgery get a little more spread out.
Click to expand...
Which is more distinguished: Andrews' ability to diagnose the need for surgery or his ability to perform it?

Also, I'm assuming he's put together a nice facility and surrounded himself with young protégés. Do you think Birmingham remains a destination after he hangs up his scalpel?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer (kidding aside - thanks for the insights on stuff like this - always great)
 
jasvlm

jasvlm

New Member
Nov 28, 2014
177
TigerBlood said:
 
This. Pretty clear 2015 is not the targeted year for this squad. It will be a fun year to watch, but a lot of unknowns in the rotation, the bullpen and the slew of young developing talent. No need to push any more chips in the middle than necessary. 
Click to expand...
I disagree that 2015 isn't the year for this squad.  2 of their most valuable players are in the twilights of their careers (Koji and Ortiz), and they aren't around to help integrate guys into the lineup so 2016 is prettier.  They want to win, and I have to believe the FO wants the same thing.  They have set this team up with remarkable flexibility, both in terms of young assets available for trade, and in terms of not being locked into any horrible contracts for guys not producing.  I certainly see the merit of delaying Swihart's service time and arb clock, but if Farrell and the FO agree that Swihart is ready to contribute in the bigs right away in 2015, he should start the season with the team.  The goal of a team like Boston should be to field the most competitive lineup they can every year, and with their payroll, they should be able to do just that.  I get it that they could wait 2 weeks and keep Swihart another full season in terms of his service time, and I'd be OK letting Hanigan/Quintero play the first 10 games of the season to allow for that, but if they think he's ready, they should absolutely make him the starter at that point and give this current roster its best chance to win in 2015.
 
Sampo Gida

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,044
doc said:
Isn't recovery from TJ surgery shorter for non pitchers? I have read that but can't find a reliable source to quote. Writers had TJ last June and is expected in late April
Click to expand...
 
Catchers throw more than any position in baseball, including pitchers.  Not sure they have enough data to say 10 months is enough. 
 
http://www.si.com/mlb/strike-zone/2014/06/17/matt-wieters-tommy-john-surgery-baltimore-orioles
 
In fact some are saying 12 months for pitchers might be stretching it leading to a poorer prognosis for TJ Surgery in recent years (granted the data is not conclusive)
 
http://www.hardballtimes.com/tommy-john-surgery-success-rates-in-the-majors/
 
Post Tommy John Surgery Medians by Return Time to Majors, 1974-2009 surgeries
Return,
Months after surgery Appearances (G) Innings Pitched (IP) # of Pitchers
1-11 87 106 18
12 124 155 22
13 128 179 19
14-16 129 239
20 17-20 102 254 21
21-24 122 195 18
25-100 49 104 23
 
Red(s)HawksFan

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,042
Maine
SeoulSoxFan said:
 
So although this is "good" news, this still doesn't rule out a TJ surgery after his return, correct? 
Click to expand...
 
Being on the 60-day DL doesn't imply anything in terms of expected return.  All it tells us is that the earliest they expect he might return to action is mid/late-May, as opposed to placing him on the 15-day DL which allows for a return by mid-April.  Doesn't rule out a lengthy absence at all.
 
R

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,862
SeoulSoxFan said:
 
So although this is "good" news, this still doesn't rule out a TJ surgery after his return, correct? 
Click to expand...
 
In no way is this good news.  It's an admission that at minimum, he will need a long period of rest and rehab.  But he could still easily undergo TJ during that 60 day window.
 
Andrews is going to see the (probably) high grade partial UCL tear, and either recommend rest (ala Wieters initially) or just say he should undergo TJ right away. If the MR arthrogram (with contrast) confirms a full thickness tear, the decision is even easier.
 
To be honest, considering Vazquez' arm is critical to his skill set, he probably should be treated more similarly to a pitcher than a position player.  I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up getting TJ.  It'll either happen right away, or after an attempted rehab.  
 
I'm reading between the lines on the diagnosis of course given the Andrews visit and the 60 day DL trip. His best (only?) chance is that it's more flexor/pronator strain than UCL tear and the initial MRI interpretations are a bit of an overcall.  But I doubt it.
 
Let's hope Swihart starts off the year well in AAA, and we see him by May/June in the majors. I hope Farrell is ready to do a lot of pinch hitting out of the 9 hole until then. 
 
koufax37

koufax37

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,474
Unlike Tanaka, and more like Weiters, the timing for Vazquez isn't super important now. TJ now or in a month would still have him ready for ST with plenty of time. But I don't see any reason to lose two months to a rehab attempt and then have midsummer surgery that puts 2016 in jeopardy. Unless they are super happy with how minor the injury is and how he bounces back he has to be headed for TJ. If they felt otherwise I think they would have gone 15 day first.

I think there is maybe a 20% chance he rehabs 45 days and then gets back to baseball, and an 80% chance he has TJ before May 15. You have to be really confident in a non-surgical 2015 return to complete health to delay TJ longer than that.

Is there a back dating of his 60 day? Or is it April and May off?
 
Otis Foster

Otis Foster

rex ryan's podiatrist
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
1,713
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
The knock-on effect of this could be a kickstarting of the Hamels talks again. Ruben has to know that there's now no possibility of Swihart being available in a trade. 
Click to expand...
 
To digress slightly, I don't see this. Amaro is in a corner. They're so closely tied to the Swihart/Betts/Bogie trifecta in the minds of their fans that doing a lesser deal because Swihart truly isn't available would be a real step backwards. If anything, it drives home the point that they won't get him and leads to a decision to hold out till the break and assess the market then. At that point, some teams that are really in contention might bid higher to bring in an arm like Hamels.
 
Mighty Joe Young

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
8,476
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
Otis Foster said:
 
To digress slightly, I don't see this. Amaro is in a corner. They're so closely tied to the Swihart/Betts/Bogie trifecta in the minds of their fans that doing a lesser deal because Swihart truly isn't available would be a real step backwards. If anything, it drives home the point that they won't get him and leads to a decision to hold out till the break and assess the market then. At that point, some teams that are really in contention might bid higher to bring in an arm like Hamels.
Click to expand...
 
I guess it depends on what Amaro's Plan B was. If it was some combination of Owens, Margot and Devers then that would be in play. But, if it's strictly Plan A or bust then you are probably correct. 
 
Red(s)HawksFan

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,042
Maine
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
 
I guess it depends on what Amaro's Plan B was. If it was some combination of Owens, Margot and Devers then that would be in play. But, if it's strictly Plan A or bust then you are probably correct. 
Click to expand...
 
It also assumes that Amaro's options are Red Sox or bust, which probably isn't the case either.
 
Regardless, Hamels isn't going anywhere before June or July anyway.  A lot can change in 2-3 months...for the Phillies, for the Red Sox, and for the other 28 teams in the league.
 
joe dokes

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,790
Otis Foster said:
 
To digress slightly, I don't see this. Amaro is in a corner. They're so closely tied to the Swihart/Betts/Bogie trifecta in the minds of their fans that doing a lesser deal because Swihart truly isn't available would be a real step backwards. If anything, it drives home the point that they won't get him and leads to a decision to hold out till the break and assess the market then. At that point, some teams that are really in contention might bid higher to bring in an arm like Hamels.
Click to expand...
 
It might be a step backward, but to the extent Amaro cares what the fans think, the injury gives him some cover. Not getting Swihart wouldn't be seen as his "fault" anymore. It might even liberate him.
 
HriniakPosterChild

HriniakPosterChild

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2006
14,841
500 feet above Lake Sammammish
twibnotes said:
Also, I'm assuming he's put together a nice facility and surrounded himself with young protégés. Do you think Birmingham remains a destination after he hangs up his scalpel?
Click to expand...
The destination is actually Gulf Breeze, FL, where Dr. Andrews now has a clinic very close to API. That's just across the bridge from Pensacola Beach and might as well be in Alabama for (most) practical purposes.

I'm guessing the fact that there's no income tax in Florida helped the decision.
 
PaulinMyrBch

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Spanish twitter feed saying Christian has announced on facebook he's having TJ surgery. Can anyone with facebook confirm this?
 
https://twitter.com/yamairamuniz/status/583385288287780864
 
kieckeredinthehead

kieckeredinthehead

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
8,635
gryoung said:
What's the over/under when Swihart is the starter?

I'll begin ------ June 1 vs Minnesota
Click to expand...
 
They usually like to ease rookies in on the road; I'll take the under, May 25 @ MIN
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom