Vazquez Placed On The 60 Day DL

[soxhop411]

 
 
--Christian Vazquez hasn't caught a game in two weeks due to a strained right elbow, and there's at least a chance he won't be ready for Opening Day. Although he's expected to be behind the plate tomorrow in a minor league game, it's still possible the Red Sox will send Vazquez for an MRI exam. Vazquez was injured while throwing out a runner at second base March 13 against the Yankees, and according to manager John Farrell, once he resumed throwing, he began to feel soreness in his triceps. "So we altered his throwing program just to get back to his normal arm slot and natural way of throwing," Farrell said. "We're building that back up right now. He's not 100 percent to turn him loose in an 'A' game yet." By the weekend, Farrell said the Red Sox will have a clearer read on Vazquez' readiness for Opening Day. "He's improving," Farrell said. "Any time a player misses time, there's some level of concern because of the talents that they are, and a player's health is first and foremost. But there's still some steps to accomplish.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2015/03/christian_vazquez_improving_but_mri_still_possible_and
 
 

Red Sox Stats @redsoxstats · 23m23 minutes ago


Farrell said today that an MRI is still possible for Vazquez. He hurt his elbow 2 weeks ago and now has a new injury. They are waiting for?

 

 

[GaryPeters71]

Will Swihart be promoted if Vaz is DL'ed? That's what we all want to know!

 

[luckysox]

Man, this sure sounds ominous, like Tommy John ominous. It'd be a damn, damn shame to see Vazquez have to battle a career threatening injury before his big league career even really starts. His arm has got to be as valuable as some pitchers on this team.

 

[theapportioner]

Reading between the lines, it sounds like they tinkered with his throwing motion and then he got hurt.

 

[Sprowl]

Man, this sure sounds ominous, like Tommy John ominous. It'd be a damn, damn shame to see Vazquez have to battle a career threatening injury before his big league career even really starts. His arm has got to be as valuable as some pitchers on this team.

 
Yes, an elbow strain followed by a sore tricep raises the threat that TJ is looming in the background for Vazquez. Perhaps that's what comes of making every throw as hard as he can.

 

[luckysox]

It will, at the least, be interesting to see how they handle his absence, especially if it's a prolonged one. Betting on Swihart to develop while being tossed into the major league fire is a risky proposition.  John Buck just retired - in fact, today, I think - after having a pretty good spring with the Braves http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/26/john-buck-announces-his-retirement-after-11-seasons/.  
 
Maybe you try to sign a guy like him who might be able to hit a bit rather then rely long term on Hannigan plus minor league guys not names Swihart. That said, he was lousy after his all-star season, and I have no idea about his defense. 

 

[Pilgrim]

They have him scheduled to catch a minor league game tomorrow, so I doubt it's anything insanely serious.

 

[Comebacker to Foulke]

"Farrell said today that an MRI is still possible for Vazquez. He hurt his elbow 2 weeks ago and now has a new injury. They are waiting for?"
 
Drives me nuts as well. IIRC, delaying MRI's on Buch and Ells cost the Sox dearly in the past. But hey, I'm not an MD.

 

[luckysox]

They have him scheduled to catch a minor league game tomorrow, so I doubt it's anything insanely serious.

I don't buy for a second that he's not seriously injured because he's scheduled to play in a B game tomorrow. What they release to the public and what's real can often be two different things when there are injuries involved, especially at this point, where the need to sign someone else, or trade for them, etc., is relevant.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

"Farrell said today that an MRI is still possible for Vazquez. He hurt his elbow 2 weeks ago and now has a new injury. They are waiting for?"
 
Drives me nuts as well. IIRC, delaying MRI's on Buch and Ells cost the Sox dearly in the past. But hey, I'm not an MD.

 
Do you think they're just waiting for the hell of it?

 

[HillysLastWalk]

Will Swihart be promoted if Vaz is DL'ed? That's what we all want to know!

 
No.
 
I recall an article discussing this and someone else (I forget who) would get the nod before Swihart - being that it is too early.  If this was later in the baseball season - maybe.
 
This article came up in my google search (this was a conversation held a few weeks ago, and reported then):
 
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2015/03/john_farrell_blake_swihart_impressing_but_still_needs
 

“We would be comfortable (calling up Swihart),” Farrell said. “But that doesn't mean we would make that move. He's still developing with his receiving, particularly. The game-calling, he's getting familiar with guys he's catching for the first time. The athleticism is as good as you're going to find behind the plate. More experience at the upper levels is where he's at in his development path."

....

The Red Sox brought a few veteran catchers into camp, one of which will likely join Swihart in Triple-A and provide insurance should the major league team need to add a backstop. Humberto Quintero, a 12-year major league veteran, fits that bill.

 

[GaryPeters71]

 
No.
 
I recall an article discussing this and someone else (I forget who) would get the nod before Swihart - being that it is too early.  If this was later in the baseball season - maybe.
 
This article came up in my google search (this was a conversation held a few weeks ago, and reported then):
 
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2015/03/john_farrell_blake_swihart_impressing_but_still_needs
 

Sean McAdam agrees - his latest piece:
http://www.csnne.com/boston-red-sox/red-sox-catcher-vazquez-might-not-be-ready-opener

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

I guess if they're really desperate, there's Dioner Navarro and Wellington Castillo. Unlikely, but just saying.

 

[E5 Yaz]

No chance on it being Swihart at the start, even if Vasquez were lost for the season, because of the time clock.
 
Edes points to Quintero -- who is in camp, has been catching the staff, and is the epitome of "little used backup catcher."
 
Of course, if Vasquez is lost for any considerable amount of time, you wonder how Cafardo will spin trading Swihart for Hamels

 

[TheYaz67]

Free Matt Spring!
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/42260/matt-spring-still-looking-for-big-league-chance

 

[S. H. Frog]

Goddammit.  I was really looking forward to watching Vasquez this summer, because he's a case study in defensive value at catcher coming into the game right when evaluation of pitch-framing is becoming quantifiable, and because, watching the games, Vasquez seems to love playing baseball and has this one year to start before Swihart comes on-line.  It's a good story.  I'd kinda picked Vasquez as the guy to watch this year.  Fie.  Still, the news could sound worse than it is at this point.  There is no diagnosis.

 

[ivanvamp]

From rotoworld:  http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/7324/christian-vazquez 
 
"Christian Vazquez (elbow) expressed confidence Thursday that he will be ready for the season-opener.
Vazquez has appeared in just one game since March 13 due to elbow soreness, but he threw to bases Thursday in Red Sox camp and felt good. Boston's young starting catcher will play in a minor league game Friday."

 

[Doooweeeey!]

Obviously, the MRI will tell a whole lot about the condition of Christian's elbow and will inform the next steps.  
Is there any difference in the way a catcher's diagnosis of an elbow injury might be managed compared to a pitcher's?
 
Catchers make as many throws as a pitcher during a game (if not more, albeit at a different level of output).
What might be the deciding factors to shelve a catcher for TJ surgery (God I hope not in this case), as opposed to going the rehab path without surgery?
 
Like S.H. Frog above, I am looking forward to watching CV this year.  Hope this isn't as serious as it sounds.

 

[Sprowl]

Edes points to Quintero -- who is in camp, has been catching the staff, and is the epitome of deservedly "little used backup catcher."

 
ftfy.
 
How durable is Hanigan? Can he catch the first 40 games?

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
ftfy.
 
How durable is Hanigan? Can he catch the first 40 games?

 
I don't think he's going to catch all 40 games, but I think he can handle the bulk of them.
 
In the last six years, his starts behind the plate have ranged from a total of 58 to 98. His busiest season was 2012, and he started 24 of the Reds' first 40 games that year.  No reason he couldn't handle 25-30 of the first 40 games assuming there aren't an abnormal number of day game after a night game situations.

 

[In my lifetime]

Obviously, the MRI will tell a whole lot about the condition of Christian's elbow and will inform the next steps.  
Is there any difference in the way a catcher's diagnosis of an elbow injury might be managed compared to a pitcher's?
 
Catchers make as many throws as a pitcher during a game (if not more, albeit at a different level of output).
What might be the deciding factors to shelve a catcher for TJ surgery (God I hope not in this case), as opposed to going the rehab path without surgery?
 
Like S.H. Frog above, I am looking forward to watching CV this year.  Hope this isn't as serious as it sounds.

 
We are jumping way ahead of ourselves here.  Inflammation without a significant tear can cause plenty of pain on throwing as well.
But TJ surgery decision depends on the stability of the ligament.
Unstable = surgery for an active baseball player.
Generally that means anything more than a 25% to 50% tear depending on the physician, player, position, etc. 

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Dusty Brown weeps

 

[soxhop411]

Brian MacPherson ‏@brianmacp  2m
2 minutes ago
Swihart catching today. Given chance to reiterate Swihart will start in minors whether Vazquez is healthy or not, Farrell said, "We'll see."

 

[soxhop411]

Mike Petraglia ‏@Trags  2m
2 minutes ago
Farrell says MRI today for Vazquez after he catches Joe Kelly in this morning's minor league game

 

[soxhop411]

1. 
   
   
   Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier  14m14 minutes ago
   Joe Kelly's line: 3 IP, 53 pitches, 31 strikes, 1H, ER, 2 BBs, 5 Ks
   Details
   Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier  29m29 minutes ago
   
   
   
2. 
   
   
   Christian Vazquez had a 2-3 putout on a swinging K that bounced away from him.
   
   
   

 

[soxhop411]

Michael Silverman ‏@MikeSilvermanBB  1m1 minute ago
Swihart is in mix for C roster spot if Vazquez sidelined by opener. (In case that got buried too deep in last 140-character transmission)

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

If Swihart gets ML playing time this year, it will be the first time catchers 23 or younger have played for the Sox in successive seasons since Rich Gedman and Marc Sullivan--as well as the immortal John "Moonlight" Lickert (1G, 0 PA)--in 1981-82.

 

[bosockboy]

If Swihart is an option it seems it might be a very serious thing for Vasquez.  Hard to believe they would start the clock for a 4-5 week issue.

 

[staz]

Throwing names against the wall, I wouldn't mind some sort of deal with Houston that yields either Castro or Conger. Nava would be a nice upgrade over Marisnick.

 

[Doooweeeey!]

 
We are jumping way ahead of ourselves here.  Inflammation without a significant tear can cause plenty of pain on throwing as well.
But TJ surgery decision depends on the stability of the ligament.
Unstable = surgery for an active baseball player.
Generally that means anything more than a 25% to 50% tear depending on the physician, player, position, etc. 

Here's my copay:  $10 (or is it $25 for a specialist?)    
Good answer to my perhaps inelegantly posed question.  Thank you.

 

[GaryPeters71]

Scott Lauber ‏@ScottLauber  4m4 minutes ago
Interesting hypothetical (at this pt.): How long would Vazquez have to be out for #RedSox to call up Swihart? Guess here is > 15-day DL term

 

[amfox1]

Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier  5m5 minutes ago
Vazquez says MRI 'found something,' but no firm diagnosis yet. Will get 2nd opinion.

 

[Corsi]

Michael Silverman ‏@MikeSilvermanBB  7m7 minutes agoView translation
Nervous? Vazquez: "A lot."

 

[nvalvo]

This sucks. 

 

[Laser Show]

Fuck

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I hope this is cause to tap the brakes and not a kid being overly optimistic. Really looking forward to this kid behind the plate.
 
https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/581795095764144128

 

[twibnotes]

Ugh - the news is seldom non-catastrophic after "finding something"

Fingers crossed...he's a key piece. This pitching staff needs to steal all the strikes it can

 

[mloyko54]

I think we can all put the pieces together. It's going to be bad news. Unless they are ready to committ to Swihart and live with his growing pains there is absolutely no other choice than to make a trade. They need a starting Catcher, Hanigan hasn't been a starter in 2+ years, no way they hand him those duties. 

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

I don't like the idea of an already shaky rotation throwing to an inexperienced receiver. No bueno.

 

[DaveRoberts'Shoes]

I'm going with olecranon stress fracture. 4-6 weeks rest.

What the hell do I know?

 

[Toe Nash]

I don't like the idea of an already shaky rotation throwing to an inexperienced receiver. No bueno.

Vazquez is pretty inexperienced. He only has 55 more MLB games and around 50 more AAA games than Swihart.
 
Anyway, yeah this is bad.

 

[Red PR]

Hoping for the best, and if hes out please not for too much. Want to see Vazquez behind the plate as much as possible this year.

 

[ivanvamp]

Crap crap crap.  
 
Trade excess OF for a catcher that can split duties in some form with Hanigan, but be ready for Swihart to come up if need be.  
 
Not what this team, or Vazquez, needs right now.  

 

[nattysez]

Crap crap crap.  
 
Trade excess OF for a catcher that can split duties in some form with Hanigan, but be ready for Swihart to come up if need be.  
 
Not what this team, or Vazquez, needs right now.  

 
Two options:  (1) Hector Sanchez from the Giants, who is apparently in good shape and is definitely capable of starting, but is concussion-prone and therefore risky (and is the third C behind Susac and Posey); (2) Wellington Castillo from the Cubs, who is currently slated to be the third C (Montero and Ross are ahead of him), but can hit a little and has started before.   
 
Whether either of those guys are sufficiently better receivers than Swihart such that a trade would be worthwhile, I don't know.  

 

[benhogan]

If Vaz is done this season, go with Quintero/Hannigan combo, let Swihart get into a groove the first month at AAA.
 
Call up Swihart after a month and let him split the games with Hannigan.  On the job training.
 
Blake will be a threat batting #9, so we'll have that going for us.

 

[jimbobim]

Sean McAdam ‏@Sean_McAdam  1m1 minute ago
Awaiting further word on Vazquez' MRI. Vazquez said today doctors "found something,'' but didn't have diagnosis. Farrell to speak in 30 min

 

[jasvlm]

If Vaz is done this season, go with Quintero/Hannigan combo, let Swihart get into a groove the first month at AAA.
 
Call up Swihart after a month and let him split the games with Hannigan.  On the job training.
 
Blake will be a threat batting #9, so we'll have that going for us.

This could be a UCL tear, and Tommy John surgery, but that is the worst case.  That would cost him the season with a 12 month recovery process.  He might have a flexor tendon tear, like Cliff Lee, which would also cost him the season, but has a 6-8 month recovery timetable, making next season a bit less uncertain.  He might have bone chips in there, which would be another surgical option, costing him 2 months at least of this season.  If the elbow is not a surgical consideration, and he's got inflammation or tendonitis, he'd likely be on the 15 day DL with a likely return date into May with a best case scenario.  
The Red Sox would be loathe to trade reasonably valuable assets to get a starting catcher at this stage of the season, when they view Swihart as the future, perhaps even as soon as 2015.  I am of the opinion that they should start with Hanigan, and try to get a semi backup/timeshare veteran catcher as spring training cuts get made and guys are put on waivers.  I'm not at all averse to letting Swihart start on Opening Day, and giving him a trial by fire.  Inside the organization, he's likely the best player at the position that they've got, and if the prices are all too high elsewhere, I'd let him play.  They are projecting to contend in 2015, and to me, that supersedes the consideration of his years of control or arb clock.  If the team feels he can play, let's see him April 6th.

 

[moondog80]

Hope he's OK but keep in mind that for all of his defensive ability, he could very well have a .600 OPS.   I don't know that Hanigan is much of a downgrade, just a matter of getting a non-terrible backup like Haningan would have been,

 

[Chainsaw318]

Tommy John is less of a year killer for position players, with the rehab stint closer to 6 months than the year plus with pitchers, per BP.

Could be a thing where, if this is the injury, have the surgery, and possibly get some games in at the end of the year for AAA or after callups.

 

[amfox1]

Tommy John is less of a year killer for position players, with the rehab stint closer to 6 months than the year plus with pitchers, per BP.

Could be a thing where, if this is the injury, have the surgery, and possibly get some games in at the end of the year for AAA or after callups.

 
No chance of that.  For six months, they would focus on the PR winter league and his training with the Molinas.