Watching the Jones: Dazed & Confused

[Shelterdog]

Isn't it pretty much a given that every single NFL quarterback--and every single NFL player--is beaten to hell at this part of the season? I have very little doubt that Brady's ribs are sore, I have no doubt that he's going to get shot with horse tranqs of some sort, and I have very little doubt that he's going to play at a very high level (if his line and receivers permit him). I just don't see how sore-but not broken-ribs two weeks from a game are something that makes you vomit in your mouth.

EDIT: On inside information--this board was absolutely freaking bonkers for ElCap's posts back when he was getting stuff. When you're right about which UDFAs are going to make the final roster and which second round pick they're going to make people take it seriously.

 

[Shelterdog]

My source tells me Brady's ribs are just usual soreness. Everyone can relax.

I don't think you have inside sources you prankster you.

 

[bankshot1]

My sources inform me that Brady's ribs are good but not as good as the ribs at Golden Temple, and when Alex and Giselle aren't watching, he takes the kids over there. Those ribs are awesome.

 

[dcmissle]

Honestly, I do not.

If you don't ascribe any reliability to my information, just move along.

And if the mods would prefer that I not post information anonymously, they can tell me that. If they do, I will refrain from doing so.

In this case, my source is a client/friend who is close to someone with the Pats. I don't know if you regard that as a reasonable description of my source but that's as far as I can go.

So this is double hearsay, at least.

There is a basic problem with all of this stuff in that it is not actionable by us. But beyond that, I have layers of worry. What I have seen on the field the past few weeks. The black box that is Edelman and others returning from injury. In the end, there is only so much vomit to go around. I deal with all of this via good whiskey and great memories of last February.

 

[Stitch01]

I don't think you have inside sources you prankster you.

I don't think so either, but that's what a trader who knows someone close to Brady says. I don't usually pass along his random tidbits because I have no idea how accurate they are, but figured Id ask this morning and was told ribs are zero to worry about.

I would ascribe this information close to no value.

 

[TheoShmeo]

I get it.

In the end, I completely believe my source (and it's now actually two sources who are saying the same thing in this instance), and I completely understand the reactions here.

Anyone who wants to discuss this off line in PMs, shoot me a note.

Otherwise, the message has been received and again, let's hope that the "whatever TS says must be exactly wrong" rule applies here in spades.

The idea of Tom trying to play through the playoffs with terribly banged up ribs is a hideous one.

 

[amarshal2]

I just don't understand why you believe yourself. Given history, your reaction is the only one that is odd.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Believing myself, amarshal2, would imply that I am schizo or perhaps lying. As far as I know, I am not schizo. At least, that's what TS2 says. Lying in this instance would be silly given the predictable reactions. (We've been down this road before.)

I do believe the two guys I am speaking with. In fairness, I know who they are and have known both for many years. But totally fine if no one here believes what you are reading from me or through me, them. You have no reason to do so, I agree.

Bottom line, uncle, the TS as "purveyor of info to SoSH threads" era is over. So no need to fret.

 

[DJnVa]

Okay guys---the back and forth over this is becoming more tiresome than the tidbits are to the people who don't want to see them.

 

[Harry Hooper]

My sources inform me that Brady's ribs are good but not as good as the ribs at Golden Temple, and when Alex and Giselle aren't watching, he takes the kids over there. Those ribs are awesome.

Ha!

These ribs, do they deliver?

 

[Al Zarilla]

My sources inform me that Brady's ribs are good but not as good as the ribs at Golden Temple, and when Alex and Giselle aren't watching, he takes the kids over there. Those ribs are awesome.

Last trip back there my wife and I dined at the Golden Temple. Is it considered really good? We don't get out for Chinese much lately so I don't have comps. For some reason our best places here in Si Valley West have closed. Man, what a tangent I've helped take the thread on. Go Tom!

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Just talked to my guy. Said Brady is certainly banged up (no surprise there), but didn't specifically mention the ribs. He also said the team thinks 2 weeks is enough time for him to be rested and ready to go. Trying to get info on some of the others (Edelman feeling "great", no word yet on Vollmer). Also expecting more from James White in the playoffs. Will post more if I hear anything worthwhile.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Brady walking to the podium, says his ankle is feeling better. Nobody asked about ribs.

 

[Dogman]

Bottom line, uncle, the TS as "purveyor of info to SoSH threads" era is over. So no need to fret.

One can only hope.

 

[bankshot1]

Last trip back there my wife and I dined at the Golden Temple. Is it considered really good? We don't get out for Chinese much lately so I don't have comps. For some reason our best places here in Si Valley West have closed. Man, what a tangent I've helped take the thread on. Go Tom!

I've been out of the Boston area for over 30 years, but GT ribs were always pretty good, very meaty and then best Chinese spare-ribs in the metro area. I was there about 2 years ago and they're still good. Hell if Brady had a rack of GT's meaty boys in front of him, no problem, SB 50 here we come!

 

[Shelterdog]

Just talked to my guy. Said Brady is certainly banged up (no surprise there), but didn't specifically mention the ribs. He also said the team thinks 2 weeks is enough time for him to be rested and ready to go. Trying to get info on some of the others (Edelman feeling "great", no word yet on Vollmer). Also expecting more from James White in the playoffs. Will post more if I hear anything worthwhile.

Thanks. This is awesome.

James White is one of the mysteries of the season. He's been so good when he gets the ball but his opportunities have been so sporadic.

 

[dcmissle]

Yes, thank you Elcab.

And to echo a point made upthread,

Unless you have had a season like rypien's in 1991, or Manning's in 2010, if you are a QB right now, you feel like crap.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

 

[tims4wins]

Do they have to publish an injury report this week? I forget.

One thing I love about playoff time is seeing the injury report shrink to almost nothing. This team is getting healthy, guys. Jump on and enjoy the ride.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Do they have to publish an injury report this week? I forget.

One thing I love about playoff time is seeing the injury report shrink to almost nothing. This team is getting healthy, guys. Jump on and enjoy the ride.

I am pretty sure the answer is no.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Other reporters have tweeted that Freeny and Nink were also present.

 

[johnmd20]

No injury report required for teams on a bye.

 

[awallstein]

Do they have to publish an injury report this week? I forget.

Injury reports are not required by the league until four days prior to the next game. That said, I'm sure BB will be generously transparent with everyone's progress, right?

 

[joe dokes]

Since there had been some comparisons of Edelman's recovery to Bryant's:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/06/dez-bryant-has-foot-and-ankle-surgery-on-wednesday/

Bryant broke a bone in his foot in the season opener and missed five games before he was cleared to return to the lineup. He played in eight more games, although it was clear as the season progressed that he was at less than 100 percent and suffered further injuries to his knee and ankle.
The Cowboys insisted that they wouldn’t shut Bryant down, but they ultimately had no choice. Bryant missed the final two games and was placed on injured reserve before the final game of the year with plans for offseason surgery on his foot and ankle.
Bryant didn’t wait long to have that surgery. According to multiple reports, Bryant had surgery on New York Wednesday. He had a second bone graft done on his foot and a cleanup procedure on his ankle. After Week 17, owner Jerry Jones said the expectation is that Bryant will be ready for the offseason training program.

 

[BaseballJones]

Thanks. This is awesome.

James White is one of the mysteries of the season. He's been so good when he gets the ball but his opportunities have been so sporadic.

Anyone here have a good idea as to why this is the case? 40 receptions (in 54 targets, 74.1%), 410 yards, 10.3 yards per reception, 4 receiving touchdowns (and two really long and terrific receptions that got called back because of awful officiating calls). And he really only got to play starting week 11 against Buffalo. So he's been very productive when given the chance, but it just doesn't seem like they use him as much as they could. Can it be that they don't have faith in him? What more does he need to do to prove that, if that's the case? If they DO have faith in him, why so few targets (8 in the past two weeks)? He seems like a prime candidate to do some real damage in the playoffs.

"Secret" weapon, kinda sorta maybe?

 

[Kevin Youkulele]

Anyone here have a good idea as to why this is the case? 40 receptions (in 54 targets, 74.1%), 410 yards, 10.3 yards per reception, 4 receiving touchdowns (and two really long and terrific receptions that got called back because of awful officiating calls). And he really only got to play starting week 11 against Buffalo. So he's been very productive when given the chance, but it just doesn't seem like they use him as much as they could. Can it be that they don't have faith in him? What more does he need to do to prove that, if that's the case? If they DO have faith in him, why so few targets (8 in the past two weeks)? He seems like a prime candidate to do some real damage in the playoffs.

"Secret" weapon, kinda sorta maybe?

Over 7.5 targets per game seems like decent usage, especially for a guy who is not a #1 receiver and doesn't play every down.
For comparison:
Gronk: 120 targets in 15 games (8 targets per game)
Amendola: 87 targets in 14 games (6.2 T/G)
LaFell: 74 targets in 11 games (6.7 T/G)

So for the last 7 games White was smack in the middle of the targets per game distribution.

 

[joe dokes]

Anyone here have a good idea as to why this is the case? 40 receptions (in 54 targets, 74.1%), 410 yards, 10.3 yards per reception, 4 receiving touchdowns (and two really long and terrific receptions that got called back because of awful officiating calls). And he really only got to play starting week 11 against Buffalo. So he's been very productive when given the chance, but it just doesn't seem like they use him as much as they could. Can it be that they don't have faith in him? What more does he need to do to prove that, if that's the case? If they DO have faith in him, why so few targets (8 in the past two weeks)? He seems like a prime candidate to do some real damage in the playoffs.

"Secret" weapon, kinda sorta maybe?

One of the things that made Lewis, Vereen, Woodhead and Faulk, and even Bolden so effective is that they could run effectively when they were in on so-called "obvious passing downs."

Maybe the Patriots don't think White is a serious enough running threat to get used more often?

EDIT: Or as 86spike notes, maybe substitute "blocking" for "running"?

 

[86spike]

Anyone here have a good idea as to why this is the case? 40 receptions (in 54 targets, 74.1%), 410 yards, 10.3 yards per reception, 4 receiving touchdowns (and two really long and terrific receptions that got called back because of awful officiating calls). And he really only got to play starting week 11 against Buffalo. So he's been very productive when given the chance, but it just doesn't seem like they use him as much as they could. Can it be that they don't have faith in him? What more does he need to do to prove that, if that's the case? If they DO have faith in him, why so few targets (8 in the past two weeks)? He seems like a prime candidate to do some real damage in the playoffs.

"Secret" weapon, kinda sorta maybe?

Someone on ESPN this AM (Herm Edwards maybe?) commented that White's trouble with pass protection is a problem and why he hasn't replaced Dion Lewis to the extent many thought he would. I haven't seen enough of his play to know whether that makes sense or not. Thoughts?

 

[tims4wins]

One of the things that made Lewis, Vereen, Woodhead and Faulk, and even Bolden so effective is that they could run effectively when they were in on so-called "obvious passing downs."

Maybe the Patriots don't think White is a serious enough running threat to get used more often?

2.5 YPC on the season, 3.0 for his career. SSS, but he has not been effective running the ball.

 

[DJnVa]

Anyone here have a good idea as to why this is the case?

It's the case because Dion Lewis was healthy until mid-November.

In the last 5 games, White is averaging 5.6 catches per game. Lewis averaged 5.1 catches per game until he was hurt. Lewis added in some runs as well, but pass-catching White is getting there.

The running and, more likely, the pass blocking are where he needs to get better.

 

[amarshal2]

White missed a big block last week but I haven't seen pass pro brought up as a problem in any of the film reviews the beat reports have done. Kyed has been complimentary of White overall and holds him in higher regard than I do. It certainly might be an issue but I trust Kyed on this more than a Herm Edwards talking head who probably watched 5 snaps from the Miami and jumped to a conclusion.

My impression, as I've said here before, is that they haven't shown any confidence in him to run out of the backfield -- something that will clearly limit his snaps but is separate from his pass blocking skills.

 

[koufax32]

White missed a big block last week but I haven't seen pass pro brought up as a problem in any of the film reviews the beat reports have done. Kyed has been complimentary of White overall and holds him in higher regard than I do. It certainly might be an issue but I trust Kyed on this more than a Herm Edwards talking head who probably watched 5 snaps from the Miami and jumped to a conclusion.

My impression, as I've said here before, is that they haven't shown any confidence in him to run out of the backfield -- something that will clearly limit his snaps but is separate from his pass blocking skills.

Maybe he has a fumble problem between the tackles? He doesn't seem like a dancer when catching passes so I don't think that's it. Definitely an interesting question.

If he fixes whatever is ailing him imagine a two back set with him and Lewis lining up on either side of Brady next year.

 

[EricFeczko]

I get it.

In the end, I completely believe my source (and it's now actually two sources who are saying the same thing in this instance), and I completely understand the reactions here.

Anyone who wants to discuss this off line in PMs, shoot me a note.

Otherwise, the message has been received and again, let's hope that the "whatever TS says must be exactly wrong" rule applies here in spades.

The idea of Tom trying to play through the playoffs with terribly banged up ribs is a hideous one.

I will, I think I might know who your sources are (or at least who they may be connected to), but I don't want to leak them, obviously.


EDIT: FTR, if my suspicions are accurate. I think your sources are generally legitimate, but removed from the direct on-field action.

 

[5dice]

My impression, as I've said here before, is that they haven't shown any confidence in him to run out of the backfield -- something that will clearly limit his snaps but is separate from his pass blocking skills.

I hear this, but this guy ran for 4015 yds and 45 tds on the ground in college with very few fumbles. Its not like he was the "passing back" there, despite playing alongside Ball and Gordon. It's the 2nd half of the year o line and their ability to run block more so than some inability of White to run I imagine.

 

[Ed Hillel]

One possibility regarding White is that they view his role as too valuable and wanted to limited his injury probability before the playoffs since there is nobody comparable behind him. They may also wanted to have kept him off film to some extent.

 

[amarshal2]

One possibility regarding White is that they view his role as too valuable and wanted to limited his injury probability before the playoffs since there is nobody comparable behind him. They may also wanted to have kept him off film to some extent.

He's too young and inexperienced to have been saved for the playoffs. He needs real life reps doing things in NFL games to get better and give them confidence in him to execute in the playoffs.

Gronk might have been saved to keep him healthy and off film. It's unimaginable they did that for White prior to earning a bye.

 

[Super Nomario]

Thanks. This is awesome.

James White is one of the mysteries of the season. He's been so good when he gets the ball but his opportunities have been so sporadic.

I think part of this is the nature of that position. Everyone remembers Vereen's 11 catches on 12 targets in the Super Bowl, but he had only 7 on 9 in the other two playoff games combined, and during the regular season he had five games with 0 or 1 catch and four more with 3 catches. Some teams are going to have better solutions for the pass-catching RB than others, and so his usage is going to vary.

EDIT: Interesting note, looking at Kevin Faulk's career: his career high for catches in a season was 58, which isn't a ton for a receiving back. That year? 2008, with Matt Cassel. The only other year he broke 50 was 2000, with Bledsoe. His high with Brady was 48 - just 3 / game.

 

[DJnVa]

EDIT: Interesting note, looking at Kevin Faulk's career: his career high for catches in a season was 58, which isn't a ton for a receiving back. That year? 2008, with Matt Cassel. The only other year he broke 50 was 2000, with Bledsoe. His high with Brady was 48 - just 3 / game.

Even stranger is that the year he had 48 catches, he also ran the ball 178 times. The combined 226 touches were the most he ever had yet he scored 0 TDs that season.

 

[queenb]

I'm as big a fan of James White as there is -- as an alum, followed him for four years at Wisconsin -- but a few things:

• He's not an elite runner (though obviously in the top .00001 of humans at this so bear with me on "not elite.") He's got good hands, vision, and quickness. But he doesn't have great speed, and never ran well between the tackles. He just went down easily. He can elude people in space, but he was always the change-of-pace guy behind bigger backs who pounded it up the middle.
  
  
• He has almost no experience as the featured back. As mentioned up-thread, he put big numbers up in college, but largely by accretion. Consider that in his four years alone, eight of his offensive linemen were drafted. That's insane. He only led the team in rushing once (his freshman year) and even in high school split carries with Giovanni Bernard.
  
  
• I'm in no position to evaluate his pass blocking, but he essentially never had to do it at Wisconsin: they ranked out of 120 or so Div-I teams in pass play percentage: 113 (2010), 107 (2011), 119 (2012), 107 (2013). So he could still be learning.
  
  
• BB sees him for what he is: limited in the run game but fairly trustworthy as a receiver. If he matches up well against certain linebackers, he'll see targets, but if that's not a particular weakness for the defense, there's no reason to increase his role at the expense of more dynamic options.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I'm as big a fan of James White as there is -- as an alum, followed him for four years at Wisconsin -- but a few things:

• He's not an elite runner (though obviously in the top .00001 of humans at this so bear with me on "not elite.") He's got good hands, vision, and quickness. But he doesn't have great speed, and never ran well between the tackles. He just went down easily. He can elude people in space, but he was always the change-of-pace guy behind bigger backs who pounded it up the middle.
  
  
• He has almost no experience as the featured back. As mentioned up-thread, he put big numbers up in college, but largely by accretion. Consider that in his four years alone, eight of his offensive linemen were drafted. That's insane. He only led the team in rushing once (his freshman year) and even in high school split carries with Giovanni Bernard.
  
  
• I'm in no position to evaluate his pass blocking, but he essentially never had to do it at Wisconsin: they ranked out of 120 or so Div-I teams in pass play percentage: 113 (2010), 107 (2011), 119 (2012), 107 (2013). So he could still be learning.
  
  
• BB sees him for what he is: limited in the run game but fairly trustworthy as a receiver. If he matches up well against certain linebackers, he'll see targets, but if that's not a particular weakness for the defense, there's no reason to increase his role at the expense of more dynamic options.

Strong first post

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Strong first post

Agree.

Nice post queenb.

 

[SumnerH]

Strong first post

Agree.

Nice post queenb.

Yep. Queen Bee avatar earned, along with membership privs.

 

[TSC]

Yep. Queen Bee avatar earned, along with membership privs.

That's not Beyoncé.

 

[amarshal2]

Thank you for the informative post.

 

[johnmd20]

That's not Beyoncé.

Lil Kim launched the Queen Bee label way before Beyonce stole it.

 

[Leather]

"accretion."

Check out the brain on B!

 

[Stitch01]

I don't know if they have changed the plays they are running on offense or White's role, but Vereen was very rarely asked to block. It wasn't Travis Cadet in NO levels of literally never asked to block, but he was asked to block less than almost any other qualifying back. Doesn't mean pass blocking couldn't be limiting White's playing time, but the Pats haven't asked the pass catching back to do that much in recent years.

I don't think they were saving White from injury with his role over the last month, but I do think its possible they have things designed for him that the team didn't want to put on film.

 

[Zososoxfan]

"accretion."

Check out the brain on B!

 

[Curt S Loew]