Week 4 Game Thread

Mystic Merlin

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These people get PAID to analyze the sport, and they aren’t discussing what literally everyone else watching this is thinking about and discussing with friends/family.
 

8slim

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Players want to play. Coaches want to win.

Its on the medical personnel to protect players from themselves and to reign in insane head coaches.
 

allstonite

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Miami doesn’t handle the concussion protocol. They don’t put him in the protocol and they can’t clear him.

You can absolutely say they could or should have held him out as a precautionary measure, but someone else, not a Miami doctor, said he was ok to go back in the game, and Roger and the league are going to have to answer for that.
Yeah that’s what’s important. As long as Miami doesn’t get blamed. The NFL should be shot to the moon
 

sodenj5

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Conscious and feeling in his extremities. That’s something at least, but doesn’t address the possible concussion damage.
It’s a start. He wasn’t moving and was strapped to a board. It doesn’t mean that Tua is ok, it means he isn’t paralyzed.
 

Fishercat

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I think it’s somewhat on McDaniel though right for tonight (not last Sunday)? He’s not medical staff but he can watch tape and come to the conclusion that all of us did that their medical professionals may not have done their job Sunday and exercised caution with a banged up QB on a short week. It ultimately falls on the medical professionals but if you think Tua is your future, better to be safe.
 

riboflav

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The HC should be fired at the very least. He is ultimately responsible for the health of his players and decides who can play. Med staff can rule out players but HC has final say once cleared. Med staff should be fired too.
 

sodenj5

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Yeah that’s what’s important. As long as Miami doesn’t get blamed. The NFL should be shot to the moon
My larger point is everyone in here is saying Miami and their staff pressured Tua or the doctors to clear Tua. That isn’t how the concussion protocol works.
 

Jimbodandy

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Nowinski must wonder why he even fucking bothers doing what he does, when he sees shit like this.

Fins could have gotten a pass for themselves and the league by sitting him out tonight, after the last fiasco. But nope. Everyone in that organization who saw his last concussion and let this happen should be fucking ashamed of themselves. All of them.

It's 2022. They're talking about how he has movement in his extremities. They're not mentioning that Tua himself doesn't have any idea where he is and won't likely remember any events from today.
 

BaseballJones

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At a high school basketball game a few years ago, a kid got upended and landed on his head. He lay on the floor out cold, twitching. I thought he broke his neck. Turns out that what happened was that he got knocked out completely but he had a seizure - that was the twitching.

No idea if this was something like that.
 

Fishercat

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Every single coach in the league would play a key guy who is medically cleared to play.
If that’s the case that’s a big fucking problem when it comes to concussions and this leagues shitty history with it especially given team docs gotta have some weight on them to clear players.
 

natpastime162

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Nowinski must wonder why he even fucking bothers doing what he does, when he sees shit like this.

Fins could have gotten a pass for themselves and the league by sitting him out tonight, after the last fiasco. But nope. Everyone in that organization who saw his last concussion and let this happen should be fucking ashamed of themselves. All of them.

It's 2022. They're talking about how he has movement in his extremities. They're not mentioning that Tua himself doesn't have any idea where he is and won't likely remember any events from today.
The Dolphins are paying Bridgewater $6.5 million as insurance for Tua sucking, not being injured.
 

BaseballJones

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If that’s the case that’s a big fucking problem when it comes to concussions and this leagues shitty history with it.
Well to be fair, coaches AREN'T medical people. If a real, legit, doctor cleared a player, then the coach kinda sorta ought to go with what the actual medical experts say, right? I mean, who else's expertise should coaches lean on?
 

Shelterdog

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My larger point is everyone in here is saying Miami and their staff pressured Tua or the doctors to clear Tua. That isn’t how the concussion protocol works.
Everything I’m reading says both the team doctor and the independent neurologist evaluate the player.
 

rymflaherty

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Every single coach in the league would play a key guy who is medically cleared to play.
This is the absolute truth.
I can only imagine those not admitting it are lashing out to deflect from the fact that they, and everyone here is complicit for watching and supporting this league.
 

8slim

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If that’s the case that’s a big fucking problem when it comes to concussions and this leagues shitty history with it especially given team docs gotta have some weight on them to clear players.
I mean it’s been this way forever. Things are absolutely better today than they were years ago, but protecting players rests entirely on the doctors. Coaches want to win, period. Pay zero attention to what they say, players are nothing but meat to them.
 

Fishercat

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Well to be fair, coaches AREN'T medical people. If a real, legit, doctor cleared a player, then the coach kinda sorta ought to go with what the actual medical experts say, right? I mean, who else's expertise should coaches lean on?
Clearing a player as physically capable to play should not mean he should be played in every circumstance. Every party involved has incentive to edge towards being aggressive on players returning and in that case maybe, just maybe, you shouldn’t put your QB out there five days after probable head trauma on a short week when he’s otherwise banged up.

Now my favorite team’s coach has pressured concussed players to practice and is currently saying a one legged QB is day by day so glass houses. If Bill forced Mac out there this weekend and he tore his Achilles I’d say the same thing
 

Ale Xander

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My larger point is everyone in here is saying Miami and their staff pressured Tua or the doctors to clear Tua. That isn’t how the concussion protocol works.
Team doctor is quite capable of telling the coach the player isn’t ready/healthy
 

Jimbodandy

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Forget altruism, playing your starter this soon after a clear concussion is malpractice for a coach. This was practically inevitable, and the results aren't just bad for Tua. They're also bad for the team.
 

8slim

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Clearing a player as physically capable to play should not mean he should be played in every circumstance. Every party involved has incentive to edge towards being aggressive on players returning and in that case maybe, just maybe, you shouldn’t put your QB out there five days after probable head trauma on a short week when he’s otherwise banged up.

Now my favorite team’s coach has pressured concussed players to practice and is currently saying a one legged QB is day by day so glass houses. If Bill forced Mac out there this weekend and he tore his Achilles I’d say the same thing
The whole point is not to put a head trauma safety issue in the hands of the player or coach. If a doctor says someone can play, then he can play. This is supposed to be a binary decision, by design.
 

8slim

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I just don’t agree with the criticism of the Dolphins (and I hate the Dolphins). If a doctor said it wasn’t a concussion and he can play, then he can play. The process is intended to be a yes/no dynamic.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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I just don’t agree with the criticism of the Dolphins (and I hate the Dolphins). If a doctor said it wasn’t a concussion and he can play, then he can play. The process is intended to be a yes/no dynamic.
Yea, it’s absolutely not on the coach unless some super sketchy shit happened and he made the medical personnel clear him. Barring that, if the medical staff clears a player and the player wants to play, the coach SHOULD play him. Why shouldn’t he trust the medical team?
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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The whole point is not to put a head trauma safety issue in the hands of the player or coach. If a doctor says someone can play, then he can play. This is supposed to be a binary decision, by design.
And didn't this already happen when Tua was allowed back in the game last week?
 

sodenj5

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I just don’t agree with the criticism of the Dolphins (and I hate the Dolphins). If a doctor said it wasn’t a concussion and he can play, then he can play. The process is intended to be a yes/no dynamic.
Ultimately the process failed, and it failed Tua. Most people assumed he was concussed last week.

How he wasn’t evaluated with a concussion last week lead to him being in the lineup tonight.
 

Cellar-Door

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And didn't this already happen when Tua was allowed back in the game last week?
That one was a worse decision than letting him play tonight, staggering (which he obviously did, while grabbing his head) is supposed to be an automatic no go. Him being cleared after that is absurd.
 

Shelterdog

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Can’t figure out how to link it on my phone but according to the 2020 published protocol-the most recent one I can find-the team doctor makes the final go/no go call in consultation with the independent physician. Has it changed in the past two years?

the head coach or doctor or even the gm or owner could also so no Fucking way he plays again today.
 

8slim

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And didn't this already happen when Tua was allowed back in the game last week?
Yep. But some people know he was concussed from a 6 second Twitter video, as opposed to a doctor that actually evaluated him.

Look, maybe something nefarious happened. I have no idea. But that’s gotta be proven.
 

Jimbodandy

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I just don’t agree with the criticism of the Dolphins (and I hate the Dolphins). If a doctor said it wasn’t a concussion and he can play, then he can play. The process is intended to be a yes/no dynamic.
You've seen the clips right? Doc was obviously wrong. And this hit tonight wasn't even that terrible, but being so soon after the last one was more than enough to put Tua in the fetal position.

Fwiw, if this were the Pats and our QB, I'd be saying the same thing.
 

8slim

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You've seen the clips right? Doc was obviously wrong. And this hit wasn't even that terrible, but being so soon was more than enough to put Tua in the fetal position.

Fwiw, if this were the Pats and our QB, I'd be saying the same thing.
I saw a 6 second Twitter video. He played the second half and by all accounts was lucid and practiced this week. So what does anyone really know?

The hit tonight was pretty bad. He got whipped to the ground hard and hit square on the back of his head. It was violent and awful.
 

Fishercat

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I just don’t agree with the criticism of the Dolphins (and I hate the Dolphins). If a doctor said it wasn’t a concussion and he can play, then he can play. The process is intended to be a yes/no dynamic.
The binary process led to this tonight. The process is fucked somewhere.

If Mac got his clock cleaned last week like Tua did, was let back in the game, and then played four days later and got his clocked cleaned again and hospitalized I’d be saying this about the Pats too.

We can disagree on this and it’s fine, but in any other job risking one of your most important assets in this manner would bring questioning. I don’t think it’s unfair here.
 

fairlee76

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These people get PAID to analyze the sport, and they aren’t discussing what literally everyone else watching this is thinking about and discussing with friends/family.
They’re also paid to market and protect the brand, right? Like big tobacco marketers decades ago, they need to avoid the elephant in the room.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Every single coach in the league would play a key guy who is medically cleared to play.
This.

We watch the NFL. Aside from their ads, they don't pretend that its about anything else besides winning- not even family. Why should we pretend otherwise.
 

Jimbodandy

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I saw a 6 second Twitter video. He played the second half and by all accounts was lucid and practiced this week. So what does anyone really know?

The hit tonight was pretty bad. He got whipped to the ground hard and hit square on the back of his head. It was violent and awful.
We know that he has a serious concussion now. On a positive note, doc probably can't clear him for October 9 now since he left on a fucking stretcher. Stumbling across the field isn't enough evidence, but a backboard and ambulance is.
 

8slim

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The binary process led to this tonight. The process is fucked somewhere.

If Mac got his clock cleaned last week like Tua did, was let back in the game, and then played four days later and got his clocked cleaned again and hospitalized I’d be saying this about the Pats too.

We can disagree on this and it’s fine, but in any other job risking one of your most important assets in this manner would bring questioning. I don’t think it’s unfair here.
Honest disagreement is fine, it’s why we’re here! I just don’t think they’d consider it a “risk” because Tua was cleared to play last week. Every NFL player is nursing some injury at all times. It’s pretty tough to protect everyone from everything. And in this league if the doc says he can play, and the player wants to go, then that’s that.
 

riboflav

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The whole point is not to put a head trauma safety issue in the hands of the player or coach. If a doctor says someone can play, then he can play. This is supposed to be a binary decision, by design.
That's dumb then. It should be "when in doubt sit him out" and anyone from the coach to the trainers to the doctors should be able to pull out a player for health reasons.