"We're going to Disney World!" NBA to resume season July 31 at WDW

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,505
Saint Paul, MN
MIA beats IND. If MIA wins one of its last two games, they are guaranteed not to be the #6 seed.

EC 4-6 seeds*

MIA 44-27 (OKC, IND)
IND 43-28 (HOU, MIA) - 1.0 GB
PHI 42-28 (PHX, TOR, HOU) - 1.5 GB
MIA and IND played yesterday. They play again on Friday. And then likely play a 7 game series.
Hope we all enjoy that matchup
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,139
Some of that just has to be not traveling, period, right?
I would think so. That and just all the little stuff they have to do. Errands, family, etc think about your normal day and the million things we all do and now add being rich.

This bubble is probably a break for a lot of the guys
 

amfox1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2003
5,424
The back of your computer
EDIT: SAS beats HOU. PHX beats PHI. MEM loses to BOS. POR beats DAL.

EDIT#2: MEM and PHX play their final games at 4pm ET on Thursday, SAS at 6:30pm ET on Thursday and POR at 9pm ET on Thursday.

EC 4-6 seeds

4. MIA 44-27 (OKC, IND) (MIA cannot be the #6 seed and will be the #5 seed only if it loses its last two games and IND wins its last two games)
5. IND 43-28 (HOU, MIA) - 1.0 GB
6. PHI 42-29 (TOR, HOU) - 2.0 GB (PHI cannot be the #4 seed and will be the #5 seed only if it wins its last two games and IND loses its last two games)

WC play-in game

POR 34-39 (BRK) * (note: POR will play 74 games, MEM/PHX/SAS will all play an odd number of games; therefore, POR will not be subject to tiebreakers)
MEM 33-39 (MIL) ** - 0.5 GB
PHX 33-39 (DAL) *** - 0.5 GB
SAS 32-38 (UTA) **** - 0.5 GB

* If POR beats BRK, they will be in the play-in game as the 8th seed. If POR loses to BRK, it could still be in the play-in game if at least two of MEM, PHX and SAS also lose.
** If MEM beats MIL, they will be in the play-in game as the 8th seed if POR loses to BRK or as the 9th seed if POR beats BRK. If MEM loses to MIL, it could still be in the play-in game if PHX and SAS also lose.
***PHX needs to beat DAL and have POR or MEM lose to make the play-in game. If both POR and MEM lose, PHX would be the 8th seed; if only one of POR or MEM loses, PHX would be the 9th seed. If PHX loses or if both POR and MEM win, PHX would be eliminated.
****SAS needs to win vs. UTA and have MEM, POR and PHX lose to be the 8th seed. If SAS wins and two of MEM, POR and PHX lose, SAS would be the 9th seed. If SAS loses or if no more than one of MEM, POR and PHX lose, SAS would be eliminated.
 
Last edited:

JakeRae

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,575
New York, NY
SAS beats HOU. PHX-PHI, BOS-MEM and POR-DAL tip off in the next two hours.

EC 4-6 seeds*

MIA 44-27 (OKC, IND)
IND 43-28 (HOU, MIA) - 1.0 GB
PHI 42-28 (PHX, TOR, HOU) - 1.5 GB

*In the event that MIA and IND finish with the same record, MIA wins the tiebreaker. PHI loses tiebreakers with MIA and IND. If MIA wins one of its last two games, MIA is guaranteed not to be the #6 seed.

WC play-in game

MEM 33-38 (BOS, MIL)
POR 33-39 (DAL, BRK) - 0.5 GB** (note: POR will play 74 games, MEM/PHX/SAS will all play an odd number of games; therefore, POR will not be subject to tiebreakers)
SAS 32-38 (UTA) - 0.5GB
PHX 32-39 (PHI, DAL) - 1.0 GB***

**If POR wins both games, they will be in the play-in game as the 9th seed if MEM wins both games and as the 8th seed if MEM loses at least 1 game, regardless of PHX/SAS.
***PHX needs to win both and have POR and SAS lose at least 1 game to make the play-in game. If this happens and MEM wins at least 1 game, PHX would be the 9th seed; if MEM loses both games, PHX would be the 8th seed.
I think you have the Spurs/Suns tiebreaker wrong. Winning percentage comes before head to head and the Spurs lose that against the Suns based on having played fewer games. But, both the Suns and Spurs need Memphis to drop their last 2 to pass Memphis (or Portland to lose one more game than they do to pass Portland).
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
2,387
That Portland/Dallas game was incredible down the stretch. Lillard is an ice-cold assassin. And he does whatever he wants to. Way to go, Portland.
 

Average Game James

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2016
1,952
Celtics holding Dame to 30 actually feels like a decent effort considering how well he has played since the restart...
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
5,850
Celtics holding Dame to 30 actually feels like a decent effort considering how well he has played since the restart...
He should be in the running for bubble MVP, with Booker and maybe TJ Warren?
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
39,015
So the Blazers have the poll position with Brooklyn on Thursday. Grizz vs Bucks, Spurs vs Jazz, Suns vs Mavs, with only the Jazz having positioning to potentially play for.

Bucks have been resting guys so we’ll see what kind of roster they come to play with.
 

JakeRae

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,575
New York, NY
So the Blazers have the poll position with Brooklyn on Thursday. Grizz vs Bucks, Spurs vs Jazz, Suns vs Mavs, with only the Jazz having positioning to potentially play for.

Bucks have been resting guys so we’ll see what kind of roster they come to play with.
One that won’t include Giannis, who is going to be suspended for at least one game.
 

amfox1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2003
5,424
The back of your computer
MEM and PHX play their final games at 4pm ET on Thursday, SAS at 6:30pm ET on Thursday and POR at 9pm ET on Thursday. If MEM and PHX win, SAS will be eliminated. If at least two of MEM, PHX and SAS win, POR will be playing a "win or go home" game.

POR 34-39 (BRK) *
MEM 33-39 (MIL) ** - 0.5 GB
PHX 33-39 (DAL) *** - 0.5 GB
SAS 32-38 (UTA) **** - 0.5 GB

* If POR beats BRK, they will be in the play-in game as the 8th seed. If POR loses to BRK, it will still be in the play-in game if at least two of MEM, PHX and SAS also lose.
** If MEM beats MIL, they will be in the play-in game as the 8th seed if POR loses to BRK or as the 9th seed if POR beats BRK. If MEM loses to MIL, it will still be in the play-in game if PHX and SAS also lose.
***PHX needs to beat DAL and have POR or MEM lose to make the play-in game. If both POR and MEM lose, PHX would be the 8th seed; if only one of POR or MEM loses, PHX would be the 9th seed. If PHX loses or if both POR and MEM win, PHX would be eliminated.
****SAS needs to win vs. UTA and have MEM, POR and PHX lose to be the 8th seed. If SAS wins and two of MEM, POR and PHX lose, SAS would be the 9th seed. If SAS loses or if no more than one of MEM, POR and PHX lose, SAS would be eliminated.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
14,511
Pittsburgh, PA
So which teams do people want to see claim the 8/9 spots on Thursday?

Lillard has been putting on a show for the whole fortnight, he's making things entertaining. And I have to root against Memphis because of Teh Pickz. So that leaves the Suns, going streaking with a 7-0 bubble record, and San Antonio "New England Patriots South" Spurs, with a coach who somehow knows how to snatch victory from the jaws of a roster talent drain, year after year.

I guess I'd rather Portland and San Antonio. I expect Memphis to win, though. That said, the Blazers in a win-or-go-home situation against (wait, really?) the Nets would be the most epic way to round out these games, and it sounds like that's pretty likely to happen.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,066
That was a very soccer-style confrontation between two Euros. I do like Giannis has a bit of an edge and will go after guys he thinks are trying to get in extra shots, although the headbutt is uncalled for. He'll be fined and suspended for the last game, but I doubt he misses any playoff games and even if he does, that first round series is a cakewalk for Milwaukee.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,139
So which teams do people want to see claim the 8/9 spots on Thursday?

Lillard has been putting on a show for the whole fortnight, he's making things entertaining. And I have to root against Memphis because of Teh Pickz. So that leaves the Suns, going streaking with a 7-0 bubble record, and San Antonio "New England Patriots South" Spurs, with a coach who somehow knows how to snatch victory from the jaws of a roster talent drain, year after year.

I guess I'd rather Portland and San Antonio. I expect Memphis to win, though. That said, the Blazers in a win-or-go-home situation against (wait, really?) the Nets would be the most epic way to round out these games, and it sounds like that's pretty likely to happen.
I want to see 8 v 9, suns v pdx. Booker vs Dame.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,066
I don't think Dame is a top 15 all-time player or anything like that, but he does have a very rare kind of ability matched with leadership and impeccable timing where he can just will his team to victory. It sounds kind of corny and dramatic, but he does have a Jordan-esque ability to just go into a zone where he refuses to let his team lose. The Blazers just were not going to lose that game, it wasn't going to happen.

Often times truly great players are on dominant teams, so that kind of individual performance is rarely needed. Curry is a better player than Dame and probably capable of the same kind of necessary detonations to will his team to win, but the Warriors have been such a well-balanced team that it has rarely been required. Frankly, if Curry scored 50+ points it would arguably be a bad thing for the Warriors. The same has been true throughout the careers of many other all-time greats, like Bird, Magic, Kareem, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, etc.

We have seen those explosions from certain periods when all-time-great players found themselves on bad teams, like Hakeem in the early 90s, Kobe in the mid 2000s, LeBron a few times throughout his career, where they were able to just put up insane stat lines to win games. Again, Dame probably isn't as good as those players, but perhaps he is, he just hasn't had the team around him to show it.

To put it simply, if Portland find themselves in a one game playoff, what would be a plausible over/under for Damian Lillard points scored? 45.5? There is just no way he is going to not put on an amazing performance.

I also just love his attitude. In a lot of ways I find him the most admirable player in the NBA:

View: https://twitter.com/TurnerSportsPR/status/1293358158862102528?s=20
 

Royal Reader

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2005
1,807
UK
That was a very soccer-style confrontation between two Euros. I do like Giannis has a bit of an edge and will go after guys he thinks are trying to get in extra shots, although the headbutt is uncalled for. He'll be fined and suspended for the last game, but I doubt he misses any playoff games and even if he does, that first round series is a cakewalk for Milwaukee.
Idk, a headbutt? Feels like a joke if you can butt a guy then only miss a game you were going to get rested for anyway.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,066
Woke up this morning to Twitter telling me that Kyrie is better than Dame. I do weep for the future of basketball discussion, it is going to a rough next 60 years.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
9,187
I feel like it's reached the point with Kyrie that these discussions are totally irrelevant. Sure you can go the traditional and advanced stats, discuss Kyrie is 2 years younger, etc. But in the end, Kyrie barely plays and is an epic clubhouse cancer. That overshadows everything for him.

Until he has a full healthy regular season/playoffs on a non-dysfunctional team, he is just not even worth the time.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,505
Saint Paul, MN
Woke up this morning to Twitter telling me that Kyrie is better than Dame. I do weep for the future of basketball discussion, it is going to a rough next 60 years.
Meh, it's not a slam dunk in either direction. Cases can be made quite competently for either of those guys.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,066
I feel like it's reached the point with Kyrie that these discussions are totally irrelevant. Sure you can go the traditional and advanced stats, discuss Kyrie is 2 years younger, etc. But in the end, Kyrie barely plays and is an epic clubhouse cancer. That overshadows everything for him.

Until he has a full healthy regular season/playoffs on a non-dysfunctional team, he is just not even worth the time.
But Kyrie handles tho...

I know it is dumb Twitter people, but I am concerned that the standard of discourse for basketball conversations in particular is going to be lowered in the future, due to basketball having a natural correlation to style-over-substance that doesn't exist as much in other sports.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
10,628
Kyrie is far more llikely to decline quickly as he ages. I'm expecting the cliff to occur fairly early in his Nets contract.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
6,784
Kiev, Ukraine
Meh, it's not a slam dunk in either direction. Cases can be made quite competently for either of those guys.
The fact that Kyrie was never willing or able to really launch 3s at the rate of Dame hurts him a lot here, and in constructing an offense around him in general. (Yes, he’s still really good on those occasions when he plays and isn’t insane.)
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,066
Meh, it's not a slam dunk in either direction. Cases can be made quite competently for either of those guys.
Even if you take away the fact that Kyrie is injury prone and a complete locker room cancer, and that Dame is durable and probably the best leader in the NBA, I don't think it is that close. The argument for Kyrie is that he shoots slightly better from the field and won a ring playing next to LeBron.

I have little doubt that if you swapped Dame for Kyrie on those Cleveland teams they would have been just as successful, in fact they probably would have been more successful because Dame is more durable and a better clubhouse guy than Kyrie. Kyrie shoots slightly better from a percentage standpoint but I'd actually argue Dame is a better shooter. When you start having to pick up a guy 40 feet from the basket it does so much for a team's offense. Lillard is a better passer, although probably not by much. Lillard has a significant edge in getting to the free throw line because he actually attacks the rim and isn't trying to be an artist around the basket. Lillard had 18 made FTs last night, Kyrie has never attempted more than 14 in his entire career. Both guys are bad defenders.

To go back to intangibles, Kyrie basically stopped getting better statistically after his second season. Lillard makes a jump every season, to the point he is going to finish the season averaging 30 and 8 and shoot 46/40/89. In addition, do we ever really think the current incarnation of Damian Lillard would have had a performance like Kyrie did last season against Milwaukee?
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,985
NYC
It’s obviously not close on the “best ability is availability” count, and it’s not all that close in terms of on-court impact when they are available: Dame is a net +7.2 per 100 possessions on court over his career; Mr. Chemistry is +3.1. And of course, clubhouse impact is not something even the most perfectly adjusted on-off numbers can capture.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
34,376
Debating Irving versus Lillard is kind of basic. You can pick your metrics and then argue your point. What is more fascinating to me is the human element.

By all accounts, Lillard is the polar opposite of Kyrie in terms of leadership. There are a bunch of articles out there but this Twitter "thread" caught my eye last night. The author is former NBA player/Blazer Earl Watson:

View: https://twitter.com/Earl_Watson/status/1293255401090121728?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/Earl_Watson/status/1293256088200949761?s=20


For those that cannot read the Tweet, Watson says Lillard was approached to be part of a super-team (one guess who might have made that call) and turned it down because he wanted to build a winner in Portland.

For me, Irving was just a situation that didn't work for Cleveland and then Boston. I don't think he is a bad person, I don't wish him ill and I enjoy his basketball skills. However, I cannot root for him or his teams. On the other hand, I want everything for Dame Lillard.
 

Euclis20

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,477
Imaginationland
I feel like it's reached the point with Kyrie that these discussions are totally irrelevant. Sure you can go the traditional and advanced stats, discuss Kyrie is 2 years younger, etc. But in the end, Kyrie barely plays and is an epic clubhouse cancer. That overshadows everything for him.

Until he has a full healthy regular season/playoffs on a non-dysfunctional team, he is just not even worth the time.
People really aren't taking this seriously enough. His teams have made the playoffs for 6 straight years, and by my count he's been healthy at the end for just 3 of those. Compared to Lillard who hasn't missed as many as ten games in any single season, and it's no contest. You can't win if you don't get on the court.

Of course that was my big argument for Kemba over Kyrie, and Kemba has missed 15 games this year (after missing just 6 games total in the 4 years prior).
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,985
NYC
Lillard : Portland :: Curry : Oakland

Except that Curry did not grow up in Portland. And has had a much better coach and crew with him in Oakland. (And is a tiny bit better, but Dame’s insane durability closes that gap substantially).
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,066
Lillard : Portland :: Curry : Oakland

Except that Curry did not grow up in Portland. And has had a much better coach and crew with him in Oakland. (And is a tiny bit better, but Dame’s insane durability closes that gap substantially).
The difference between Curry and Lillard is that Curry shoots 43% from three and Dame is around 37%, which is a pretty big difference given the amount of volume those guys shoot. I'd argue that Dame is a more well-rounded basketball player due to being a superior athlete, but Curry's godly percentage combined with his unlimited shooting range is such a massive advantage in the pace-and-space era.
 

The Social Chair

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,980
I'm already paranoid about Mitchell and Tatum leaving their teams in a few years to play together. They were close on the US team last year.

The Celtics being annual contenders and a new CBA, that helps teams keep their stars, should hopefully prevent Tatum from bailing.
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
32,134
I'm already paranoid about Mitchell and Tatum leaving their teams in a few years to play together. They were close on the US team last year.

The Celtics being annual contenders and a new CBA, that helps teams keep their stars, should hopefully prevent Tatum from bailing.
Mitchell replacing Hayward would be nice . . .
 

amfox1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2003
5,424
The back of your computer
With IND's win, PHI is locked into the #6 seed and will play BOS in the first round.

MIA needs to beat either OKC or IND to clinch the #4 seed. Otherwise, MIA will be the #5 seed.

EC quarterfinal matchups are as follows:

1 Milwaukee vs 8 Orlando
2 Toronto vs 7 Brooklyn
3 Boston vs 6 Philadelphia
4 Miami/Indiana vs 5 Indiana/Miami