What does the Red Sox corner infield look like in 2024?

RedOctober3829 · Aug 10, 2023

JM3 said:
This seems like a question with a pretty obvious (albeit defensively challenged) answer, but we'll need at least a 3rd guy.

On the Roster & under control for next season
3B Rafael Devers (L) - 123 wRC+, 2.0 fWAR, 2.1 bWAR - signed through 2033 at $29.2m per year (27).
1B Triston Casas (L) - 123 wRC+, 0.9 fWAR, 0.9 bWAR - 3 more years pre-arb (24).

On the 40-man roster & under control for next season
1B/3B/UT Bobby Dalbec (R) - AAA - 142 wRC+, .996 OPS - Arb 1 (28).

Options
DH/1B/3B/2B Justin Turner (R) - 122 wRC+, 1.6 fWAR, 1.9 bWAR - Player option where he gets $13.4m if he takes it or $6.7m if he does not. Which means he only takes it if he has a horrible injury between now & the end of the season (39).

Free Agents
1B Rhys Hoskins (R) - 122 wRC+, 2.2 fWAR, 2.9 bWAR (2022) (31).
1B Brandon Belt (R) - 129 wRC+ 1.4 fWAR, 1.4 bWAR (35).
1B C.J. Cron (R) - 87 wRC+, -0.4 fWAR, -0.2 bWAR (34).
1B Eric Hosmer (L) - 67 wRC+, -0.4 fWAR, -0.5 bWAR (34).
3B Matt Chapman (R) - 124 wRC+, 3.5 fWAR, 4.4 bWAR (30).
3B Evan Longoria (R) - 111 wRC+, 0.5 fWAR, 0.9 bWAR (38).
3B Brian Anderson (R) - 88 wRC+, 0.6 fWAR, 0.6 bWAR (30).
3B Gio Urshela (R) - 94 wRC+, 0.4 fWAR, 0.7 bWAR (32).
3B/2B Joey Wendle - 63 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR, 0.5 bWAR (33).

Potential Free Agents
1B Joey Votto (L) - 117 wRC+, 0.4 fWAR, 0.3 bWAR - $20m team option with a $7m buyout (40).
1B/3B Max Muncy (L) - 117 wRC+, 2.1 fWAR, 1.9 bWAR - $10m team option with no buyout, but there are PA escalators that I think he'll probably hit which will make it a $12m option (33).
1B Josh Bell (R) - 98 wRC+, -0.2 fWAR, 0.0 bWAR - $16.5m player option (31).
3B Josh Donaldson (R) - 74 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR, -0.1 bWAR - $6m mutual option (38).
3B Eduardo Escobar (B) - 77 wRC+, -0.4 fWAR, -0.5 bWAR - $9m team option with a $500k buyout (35).

The Pipeline
3B/2B Chase Meidroth (R) AA (SoxProspects #16/my #20) - 114 wRC+, .749 OPS (22) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2025

1B/3B Blaze Jordan (R) AA (#19/#14) - 99 wRC+, .742 OPS (21) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024

3B/2B Cutter Coffey (R) A+ (#30/#32) - 103 wRC+, .689 OPS (stats for A-ball since he only has 1 game in A+ so far) (19) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2026

1B Niko Kavadas (L) AAA (#42/#67) - 92 wRC+, .714 OPS (25) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024

3B/OF Matthew Lugo (R) AA (#47/#59) - 80 wRC+, .664 OPS (22) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

3B/SS Freili Encarnacion (R) FCL (#49/#46) - 54 wRC+, .520 OPS (inj.) (19) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2026

3B/SS/UT Christian Koss (R) AAA (#50/#85) - 26 wRC+, .541 OPS (26) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

3B Johnfrank Salazar (R) A (NR/#39) - 58 wRC+, .544 OPS (20) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023 (He's moving down on my next rankings. I just like the name JOHNFRANK - he was also raking in FCL 152 wRC+, 1.001 OPS).

3B/2B Starlyn Nunez (B) DSL (NR/#51) - 140 wRC+, .917 OPS (18) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2027

1B/3B Alex Binelas (L) AA (NR/#75) - 88 wRC+, .713 OPS (23) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024

3B/2B Jancel Santana (B) DSL (NR/#108) - 75 wRC+, .612 OPS (18) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2026 (I hope he gets good & is a great clubhouse guy so we can talk about Jancel Culture for years to come).

1B Tyler Miller (L) A+ (NR/#112) - 117 wRC+, .809 OPS (23) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024 (Should move him up a bit, he's been raking for a couple weeks).

3B/1B Lyonell James (R) A (NR/#124) - 86 wRC+, .637 OPS (21) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

1B Armando Sierra (R) FCL (NR/#127) - 128 wRC+, .857 OPS (20) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2025

1B Albert Feliz (R) A (NR/#136) - 96 wRC+, .658 OPS (21) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

My Bottom Line
Feels like we either need Turner back, who should certainly opt out & take the free $6.7m, or we need to replace what he brings to the table via free agency or trade as I don't think we have anyone in house...unless they think Dalbec is ready...which they pretty clearly do not seem to think he is. In about 2 years I think Blaze could probably fill the Turner role if they are still in need for that.

Will be interesting to see what they end up doing in terms of depth around Casas/Devers.

My bad, did not realize this was just corner IF.

RedOctober3829 · Aug 10, 2023

JM3 said:
Yeah, I was trying to decide between all infield, corner/middle, or listing each of the 4 positions separately & I thought this was the option that made most sense.

Middle infield will probably be tomorrow.

As far as CI, I would say that getting a right handed hitting 1B/3B if Turner leaves is a must. Brandon Belt or Evan Longoria would be suitable options.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Aug 10, 2023

JM3 said:
This seems like a question with a pretty obvious (albeit defensively challenged) answer, but we'll need at least a 3rd guy.

On the Roster & under control for next season
3B Rafael Devers (L) - 123 wRC+, 2.0 fWAR, 2.1 bWAR - signed through 2033 at $29.2m per year (27).
1B Triston Casas (L) - 123 wRC+, 0.9 fWAR, 0.9 bWAR - 3 more years pre-arb (24).

On the 40-man roster & under control for next season
1B/3B/UT Bobby Dalbec (R) - AAA - 142 wRC+, .996 OPS - Arb 1 (28).

Options
DH/1B/3B/2B Justin Turner (R) - 122 wRC+, 1.6 fWAR, 1.9 bWAR - Player option where he gets $13.4m if he takes it or $6.7m if he does not. Which means he only takes it if he has a horrible injury between now & the end of the season (39).

Free Agents
1B Rhys Hoskins (R) - 122 wRC+, 2.2 fWAR, 2.9 bWAR (2022) (31).
1B Brandon Belt (R) - 129 wRC+ 1.4 fWAR, 1.4 bWAR (35).
1B C.J. Cron (R) - 87 wRC+, -0.4 fWAR, -0.2 bWAR (34).
1B Eric Hosmer (L) - 67 wRC+, -0.4 fWAR, -0.5 bWAR (34).
3B Matt Chapman (R) - 124 wRC+, 3.5 fWAR, 4.4 bWAR (30).
3B Evan Longoria (R) - 111 wRC+, 0.5 fWAR, 0.9 bWAR (38).
3B Brian Anderson (R) - 88 wRC+, 0.6 fWAR, 0.6 bWAR (30).
3B Gio Urshela (R) - 94 wRC+, 0.4 fWAR, 0.7 bWAR (32).
3B/2B Joey Wendle - 63 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR, 0.5 bWAR (33).

Potential Free Agents
1B Joey Votto (L) - 117 wRC+, 0.4 fWAR, 0.3 bWAR - $20m team option with a $7m buyout (40).
1B/3B Max Muncy (L) - 117 wRC+, 2.1 fWAR, 1.9 bWAR - $10m team option with no buyout, but there are PA escalators that I think he'll probably hit which will make it a $12m option (33).
1B Josh Bell (R) - 98 wRC+, -0.2 fWAR, 0.0 bWAR - $16.5m player option (31).
3B Josh Donaldson (R) - 74 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR, -0.1 bWAR - $6m mutual option (38).
3B Eduardo Escobar (B) - 77 wRC+, -0.4 fWAR, -0.5 bWAR - $9m team option with a $500k buyout (35).

The Pipeline
3B/2B Chase Meidroth (R) AA (SoxProspects #16/my #20) - 114 wRC+, .749 OPS (22) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2025

1B/3B Blaze Jordan (R) AA (#19/#14) - 99 wRC+, .742 OPS (21) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024

3B/2B Cutter Coffey (R) A+ (#30/#32) - 103 wRC+, .689 OPS (stats for A-ball since he only has 1 game in A+ so far) (19) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2026

1B Niko Kavadas (L) AAA (#42/#67) - 92 wRC+, .714 OPS (25) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024

3B/OF Matthew Lugo (R) AA (#47/#59) - 80 wRC+, .664 OPS (22) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

3B/SS Freili Encarnacion (R) FCL (#49/#46) - 54 wRC+, .520 OPS (inj.) (19) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2026

3B/SS/UT Christian Koss (R) AAA (#50/#85) - 26 wRC+, .541 OPS (26) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

3B Johnfrank Salazar (R) A (NR/#39) - 58 wRC+, .544 OPS (20) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023 (He's moving down on my next rankings. I just like the name JOHNFRANK - he was also raking in FCL 152 wRC+, 1.001 OPS).

3B/2B Starlyn Nunez (B) DSL (NR/#51) - 140 wRC+, .917 OPS (18) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2027

1B/3B Alex Binelas (L) AA (NR/#75) - 88 wRC+, .713 OPS (23) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024

3B/2B Jancel Santana (B) DSL (NR/#108) - 75 wRC+, .612 OPS (18) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2026 (I hope he gets good & is a great clubhouse guy so we can talk about Jancel Culture for years to come).

1B Tyler Miller (L) A+ (NR/#112) - 117 wRC+, .809 OPS (23) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2024 (Should move him up a bit, he's been raking for a couple weeks).

3B/1B Lyonell James (R) A (NR/#124) - 86 wRC+, .637 OPS (21) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

1B Armando Sierra (R) FCL (NR/#127) - 128 wRC+, .857 OPS (20) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2025

1B Albert Feliz (R) A (NR/#136) - 96 wRC+, .658 OPS (21) - Rule 5 Eligible 12/2023

My Bottom Line
Feels like we either need Turner back, who should certainly opt out & take the free $6.7m, or we need to replace what he brings to the table via free agency or trade as I don't think we have anyone in house...unless they think Dalbec is ready...which they pretty clearly do not seem to think he is. In about 2 years I think Blaze could probably fill the Turner role if they are still in need for that.

Will be interesting to see what they end up doing in terms of depth around Casas/Devers.

Great post! Thanks.
There's been a lot of poo-poo'ing multi-positional players but the critique is wrong IMO. They're basically keeping their main core at one position but using flexible options for back-ups which makes sense. Turner provides something that JD did not so we had to carry an additional player for his shortcomings.
Chapman would be fantastic but I dont see it happening without a major reshuffling and sending one of Devers, Casas, Duran or Yoshida away... and all those guys provide tremendous value going forward.
So Turner would be ideal for another full season. I'd offer him another similar deal with a baseline raise and buy-out.

The Gray Eagle · Aug 10, 2023

FWIW, Brandon Belt bats left, so we won't need him:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltbr01.shtml

Petagine in a Bottle · Aug 10, 2023

RedOctober3829 said:
As far as CI, I would say that getting a right handed hitting 1B/3B if Turner leaves is a must. Brandon Belt or Evan Longoria would be suitable options.

Belt is a lefty.

Ale Xander · Aug 10, 2023

Free Dalbec

OPS basically 1 (in AAA though)
Right-handed
Doesn't make much
Can play both positions, plus a passable 2B
Spend the $ on pitching instead
Only downside is maybe he needs to play every day.

-Proud member of the Robert Vernon Dalbec Fan Club

BaseballJones · Aug 10, 2023

RedOctober3829 said:
As far as CI, I would say that getting a right handed hitting 1B/3B if Turner leaves is a must. Brandon Belt or Evan Longoria would be suitable options.

I don't want to see platoon situations at CI, but I agree that having a solid RH bat that can play 1b or 3b is important.

Casas at 23 has an ops+ of 121. He's already a legitimately terrific hitter at his position. Obviously he gives you nothing on the base paths and is poor defensively. Nothing really can be done about his base running, and his range is kind of what it is (very limited) but he should be able to improve his glove work at least some. He's probably best suited in MLB to be a DH and maybe that's where he'll end up when everything shakes out. But for now, you live with the defensive liabilities and keep him at 1b where he's just become a masher (.925 ops, 15 hr since May 3).

And obviously Raffy is a staple at 3b. He's having a "down" year but still has a 122 ops+ and 26 homers (79 rbi as well, though I know that's not a hugely important stat).

Yes, Turner would be great to keep for one more year, but that opt-out is likely to be taken, right? Dalbec - if he can ever get better than being a AAAA hitter - would be a great fit in this role as an alternative. But that's a big IF.

Fishy1 · Aug 10, 2023

One thing I'd note is that my binky Stephen Scott actually has some positional flexibility. He's played first base and the outfield in the past three seasons. If Turner walks, we might see him as a back-up or a full-timer. I'm all for protecting him on the 40-man.

I'd be fine with Dalbec for positional flexibility, but the guy is still striking out 33% of the time and is basically a no-play against right handers at the big league level.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Aug 10, 2023

BaseballJones said:
I don't want to see platoon situations at CI, but I agree that having a solid RH bat that can play 1b or 3b is important.

Casas at 23 has an ops+ of 121. He's already a legitimately terrific hitter at his position. Obviously he gives you nothing on the base paths and is poor defensively. Nothing really can be done about his base running, and his range is kind of what it is (very limited) but he should be able to improve his glove work at least some. He's probably best suited in MLB to be a DH and maybe that's where he'll end up when everything shakes out. But for now, you live with the defensive liabilities and keep him at 1b where he's just become a masher (.925 ops, 15 hr since May 3).

And obviously Raffy is a staple at 3b. He's having a "down" year but still has a 122 ops+ and 26 homers (79 rbi as well, though I know that's not a hugely important stat).

Yes, Turner would be great to keep for one more year, but that opt-out is likely to be taken, right? Dalbec - if he can ever get better than being a AAAA hitter - would be a great fit in this role as an alternative. But that's a big IF.

Careful usage of him at 1B, DH or 3B against tough lefties (although Casas has improved against LHP also) seems ideal. But would he be okay with playing what 2 games out of every 5 rotating through those spots? There likely will already be Yoshida at DH at least 50% of the time (trying not to cross threads here but kinda hard not to). It's not an impossible situation but it'd also present a chance to sit Verdugo against tough lefties and have Yoshida in the field then (in LF though of course).

Fishy1 · Aug 10, 2023

Sandy Leon Trotsky said:
Careful usage of him at 1B, DH or 3B against tough lefties (although Casas has improved against LHP also) seems ideal. But would he be okay with playing what 2 games out of every 5 rotating through those spots? There likely will already be Yoshida at DH at least 50% of the time (trying not to cross threads here but kinda hard not to). It's not an impossible situation but it'd also present a chance to sit Verdugo against tough lefties and have Yoshida in the field then (in LF though of course).

There's no doubt he's useful against LHP, but the Red Sox have seemed to try to move away from having right-handed platoon guys on the roster where they can. Refsnyder is really the only one on the roster, and although he mashes LHP, he's also only had 106 plate appearances against them all season. IMO it's hard to see that a useful way to spend a 40-man roster spot.

Turner, Yoshida, and Duvall, on the other hand, are guys with relatively neutral splits. They give the team the flexibility to play them against LHP or RHP should someone go down.

Because if Casas goes down, suddenly you're forcing Dalbec to hit against RHP, and a 33% K rate in the minors or the bigs leaves him absolutely no room to maneuver on balls in play. If his BABIP is .393 like it was in his first stint in the majors, he's presentable, if it dips below or close to .300, which it will occasionally, he becomes completely unplayable against RHP.

That's the case for bringing back Turner - he's had a huge bounceback season, and he is a neutral split guy from the right side of the plate.

The other option is bring up Stephen Scott to back-up first base and catcher, but for all his good qualities - low K rate, great plate discipline, mashing in AAA right now, can catch and play first base - he can't hit left-handed pitching, which makes him quite redundant.

TheYellowDart5 · Aug 10, 2023

FYI Bell is a switch-hitter.

Chapman is the big prize on the market but this FO has no reason to pursue him. The remaining guys are either ancient, washed, or should be permanently parked at DH. Wendle and Anderson offer some versatility but not much else. Longoria would be a decent platoon bat, but Devers doesn't need that. I think the optimal solution is retaining Turner; barring that, Hoskins would be an appealing right-handed DH option who can play 1B in a pinch (albeit very very poorly), but I think the market will be too hot for him and the role here too limited.

kazuneko · Aug 10, 2023

JM3 said:
My Bottom Line
Feels like we either need Turner back, who should certainly opt out & take the free $6.7m, or we need to replace what he brings to the table via free agency or trade as I don't think we have anyone in house...unless they think Dalbec is ready...which they pretty clearly do not seem to think he is. In about 2 years I think Blaze could probably fill the Turner role if they are still in need for that.

Will be interesting to see what they end up doing in terms of depth around Casas/Devers.

I love Turner but have no interest in having him back unless we are trading one of our defensively challenged regulars. I'm also not interested in anyone filling the "Turner role" if that means a dedicated DH who periodically backs up the corners (unless our new Turner role candidate is Rafael Devers). This team has too many bad fielders to have a dedicated DH, so ideally one of those bad fielders ends up without a fielding glove next year. That should probably be Yoshida (with Rafaela taking CF and Duran LF) unless they sign a starting caliber 3rd baseman (Chapman?) to replace Devers at 3b.

TheYellowDart5 · Aug 10, 2023

kazuneko said:
I love Turner but have no interest in having him back unless we are trading one of our defensively challenged regulars. I'm also not interested in anyone filling the "Turner role" if that means a dedicated DH who periodically backs up the corners (unless our new Turner role candidate is Rafael Devers). This team has too many bad fielders to have a dedicated DH, so ideally one of those bad fielders ends up without a fielding glove next year. That should probably be Yoshida (with Rafaela taking CF and Duran LF) unless they sign a starting caliber 3rd baseman (Chapman?) to replace Devers at 3b.

The best fit for this roster, given both Casas and the entirely left-handed OF*, would be a right-handed hitter who can play the corner OF spots and 1B. But none of the available free agents qualify as such, so if that's what the FO is looking for, it'll have to be through a trade.

*obviously depending on what happens with Verdugo this offseason, but it's safe to assume that Yoshida in LF and Duran in either CF or RF is set in stone for 2024.

moondog80 · Aug 10, 2023

Ale Xander said:
Free Dalbec

OPS basically 1 (in AAA though)
Right-handed
Doesn't make much
Can play both positions, plus a passable 2B
Spend the $ on pitching instead
Only downside is maybe he needs to play every day.

-Proud member of the Robert Vernon Dalbec Fan Club

Forget about 2B, I'm not sure his 3B ability is much more than "emergency". 1B who can only hit lefties is a tough use of a roster spot. Pass.

The Gray Eagle · Aug 10, 2023

JM3 said:
I'm feeling a bit defeated. I typed up most of the middle infield write up while the server was down... then I misclicked something & 95% of it disappeared.

A disheartening disaster sounds about right for the Red Sox middle infield lately.

The Red Sox roster ranked 28th in the majors in second base WAR and dead last in shortstop WAR. Total production at each position has been below replacement level, a drain on the team both offensively and defensively.

https://theathletic.com/4760600/2023/08/09/trevor-story-red-sox-infield-return/

Back on topic, Mark Canha is a RH OF/1B who will be a free agent. Probably won't get paid much as he hasn't been very good and is 34. Might be a decent buy low candidate.
Although we might be better off if Refsnyder could play some 1B. He's played 227 major league innings there, but none since 2018. He probably wouldn't be very good there, but if we're talking about a guy who could give Casas the occasional day off against lefties and cover for a few games if Casas is banged up but not on the DL, he would probably be okay.

chawson · Aug 10, 2023

I'd add Donovan Solano to the FA options. The Twins have gotten a lot of good work out of him on a 1/$2M deal. He's been in a timeshare with the oft-hurt Alex Kirilloff at first base. Makes a ton of contact, and he's done a great job drawing walks especially this year.

I like Urshela, too. Obviously no prize at this stage of his career but he still hits for solid (if largely empty) average and plays a capable 3B. Typically neutral splits. Not sure he's ready for such a part-time role and may be able to get a starting job on the A's or Royals.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Aug 10, 2023

chawson said:
I'd add Donovan Solano to the FA options. The Twins have gotten a lot of good work out of him on a 1/$2M deal. He's been in a timeshare with the oft-hurt Alex Kirilloff at first base. Makes a ton of contact, and he's done a great job drawing walks especially this year.

I like Urshela, too. Obviously no prize at this stage of his career but he still hits for solid (if largely empty) average and plays a capable 3B. Typically neutral splits. Not sure he's ready for such a part-time role and may be able to get a starting job on the A's or Royals.

Geez..... Urshela. I remember looking at MFY-Red Sox position by position matchups and wondering if they had the better player at 3rd. Turner really looks like the best option at likely cost and he fits the team's needs perfectly.

Jack Rabbit Slim · Aug 10, 2023

Fishy1 said:
That's the case for bringing back Turner - he's had a huge bounceback season

In what way? His last 3 years OPS+ are 120, 119, and 119. It seems like he has settled into being a good bat that can reasonably cover 1B/3B/DH.

TheYellowDart5 said:
I think the optimal solution is retaining Turner; barring that, Hoskins would be an appealing right-handed DH option who can play 1B in a pinch (albeit very very poorly), but I think the market will be too hot for him and the role here too limited.

I am in agreement here, but I am wondering if the knee surgery dampens Hoskins market enough.

Fishy1 · Aug 10, 2023

Jack Rabbit Slim said:
In what way? His last 3 years OPS+ are 120, 119, and 119. It seems like he has settled into being a good bat that can reasonably cover 1B/3B/DH.

I am in agreement here, but I am wondering if the knee surgery dampens Hoskins market enough.

Yeah, I don't know what the hell I meant. I suppose I was looking at how few home runs he hit last year, but there was a power outage across baseball last year, so overall he's been a very similar hitter relative to the league. Mea culpa.

I do always feel, when replying to a comment like this, like asking "what about the rest of my argument?!!?" But of course it's up to you which nit you pick.

kazuneko · Aug 10, 2023

TheYellowDart5 said:
The best fit for this roster, given both Casas and the entirely left-handed OF*, would be a right-handed hitter who can play the corner OF spots and 1B. But none of the available free agents qualify as such, so if that's what the FO is looking for, it'll have to be through a trade.

*obviously depending on what happens with Verdugo this offseason, but it's safe to assume that Yoshida in LF and Duran in either CF or RF is set in stone for 2024.

I'm not getting why this is so safe to assume. I also find the idea that Duran might be moved to RF particularly horrifying (a bad fielder with a noodle arm does not fit the bill in Fenway's RF).
Honestly, I just don't see the need for any significant signing this off-season to backup the corners or the OF. If Turner is gone and Rafaela is called up (and I think both are safe assumptions) I would assume most of Turner's ABs would be replaced by Rafaela who would take over in the field and push one of the team's horrible fielders to the DH role. Since CF is his most comfortable position, I'd assume this would mean that Duran would be pushed to LF and Yoshida to DH. Who would back up the corner OF/IF spots? Well, we already have a RHB for that OF role in Refsnyder. Rafaela, another RHB could also probably swing over to 3b sometimes. I also think Devers should start to get comfortable a bit at 1b (at least to back it up) as that would at least spare him from having to throw across the diamond.

Jack Rabbit Slim · Aug 10, 2023

Fishy1 said:
Yeah, I don't know what the hell I meant. I suppose I was looking at how few home runs he hit last year, but there was a power outage across baseball last year, so overall he's been a very similar hitter relative to the league. Mea culpa.

I do always feel, when replying to a comment like this, like asking "what about the rest of my argument?!!?" But of course it's up to you which nit you pick.

Apologies, I didn't mean to dismiss the rest of the post. I was just curious what you meant by that line.

I would agree that Dalbec has had his chance and should stay in AAA as injury depth or be traded. Working out another short term deal with Turner would seem to be the best option, but I am also somewhat intrigued by a Devers DH/Chapman 3B situation.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Aug 10, 2023

I really like Chapman and would prefer him over Devers…. But I don’t see any possible way to have him on the roster. Devers is likely the 3B for at least the next 2-3 years IMO.
The MFY ‘s will go hard after Chapmanand he’ll get around $30M per for 8 years

kazuneko · Aug 10, 2023

Sandy Leon Trotsky said:
I really like Chapman and would prefer him over Devers…. But I don’t see any possible way to have him on the roster. Devers is likely the 3B for at least the next 2-3 years IMO.
The MFY ‘s will go hard after Chapmanand he’ll get around $30M per for 8 years

It’s just a question of money, but I agree I doubt the Red Sox will go that direction. Devers natural position is DH and that should open up once Turner leaves. Chapman would slot in perfectly at third and immediately transform the team’s defense from the right side of the infield. The issue is that would create a logjam in the OF, especially if Rafaela is going to be promoted, as without signing someone like Chapman it would seem the most natural move would be to shift Yoshida to DH to free up space in the OF for Rafaela.

kazuneko · Aug 10, 2023

TheYellowDart5 said:
I think the optimal solution is retaining Turner

So is the goal to run out the same defensively challenged lineup as this year? Turner is too good to come back for a bench role so presumably he’s the primary DH.
Where does Rafaela fit in this scenario? Is this assuming a trade of Verdugo?

TheYellowDart5 · Aug 10, 2023

kazuneko said:
So is the goal to run out the same defensively challenged lineup as this year? Turner is too good to come back for a bench role so presumably he’s the primary DH.
Where does Rafaela fit in this scenario? Is this assuming a trade of Verdugo?

Well unless they plan on replacing Devers and Casas wholesale, then yes, the same defense returns at the infield corners, so I'm not sure why there's a concern about Turner being the primary DH. And I don't know where Rafaela fits because I have no clue if he'll be part of the 2024 team, nor does anyone else here.

Sandy Leon Trotsky said:
I really like Chapman and would prefer him over Devers…. But I don’t see any possible way to have him on the roster. Devers is likely the 3B for at least the next 2-3 years IMO.
The MFY ‘s will go hard after Chapmanand he’ll get around $30M per for 8 years

Aside from Cole, Judge and Rodon — aka two elite starters and one of the five best hitters in baseball — the Yankees haven't given a free agent anything near that kind of money, and I doubt they're going to start with Chapman.

Sin Duda · Aug 10, 2023

The Gray Eagle said:
A disheartening disaster sounds about right for the Red Sox middle infield lately.

https://theathletic.com/4760600/2023/08/09/trevor-story-red-sox-infield-return/

Back on topic, Mark Canha is a RH OF/1B who will be a free agent. Probably won't get paid much as he hasn't been very good and is 34. Might be a decent buy low candidate.
Although we might be better off if Refsnyder could play some 1B. He's played 227 major league innings there, but none since 2018. He probably wouldn't be very good there, but if we're talking about a guy who could give Casas the occasional day off against lefties and cover for a few games if Casas is banged up but not on the DL, he would probably be okay.

I love your Refsnyder at 1B idea. He played lots of innings at 2B for the Yankees years ago and, as you said, some innings at 1B before too. He's listed at 6' even, so a little short, but I'm sure he has the glove and range for it.

kazuneko · Aug 10, 2023

TheYellowDart5 said:
Well unless they plan on replacing Devers and Casas wholesale, then yes, the same defense returns at the infield corners, so I'm not sure why there's a concern about Turner being the primary DH. And I don't know where Rafaela fits because I have no clue if he'll be part of the 2024 team, nor does anyone else here.

The corner IF positions and the DH cannot be considered in a vacuum. I know that none of us know for certain if Rafaela is going to be on the roster to start 2024 but it hardly feels like going out on a limb to suggest he probably will. He's the team's number 2 prospect and he's already tearing up AAA. While I'm not Chaim Bloom and I can't speak for him we all know that he is eager to develop the team's young talent, and I think it might be safe to assume that - barring a trade- Rafaela is going is going to be given every chance to be part of the major league team next year, presumably as a starter in the OF.
If this is true the team would have to create ABs for him, and considering that the team's biggest weakness is defense, and it's most likely roster change in the lineup is Turner's departure, you'd think they might want to address this by placing Rafaela's gold-glove caliber glove in the OF, which would lead to Yoshida (presumably) picking up Turner's DH duties. The role of backup 1b or 3b can be filled internally. As the previous poster noted, Refsnyder has experience at 1b. And not only does Urius have plenty of experience at 3b, it seems pretty plausible that Rafaela could backup Devers there as well.

jon abbey · Aug 10, 2023

TheYellowDart5 said:
Aside from Cole, Judge and Rodon — aka two elite starters and one of the five best hitters in baseball — the Yankees haven't given a free agent anything near that kind of money, and I doubt they're going to start with Chapman.

Yeah, zero chance of this.

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · Aug 12, 2023

Given that he's shown absolutely no hint of falling off a cliff, I really want Turner back next season. Not only does he rake, but his clubhouse reputation is great, and I at least imagine that he's had a good influence on Casas.
I understand that she appears to be somewhat media savvy, but his wife was interviewed during the game today and talked about how much she loves Boston. I'd offer something similar to the structure he has this year--one year with a player option, but it obviously has to be as more money.

LogansDad · Aug 12, 2023

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat said:
Given that he's shown absolutely no hint of falling off a cliff, I really want Turner back next season. Not only does he rake, but his clubhouse reputation is great, and I at least imagine that he's had a good influence on Casas.
I understand that she appears to be somewhat media savvy, but his wife was interviewed during the game today and talked about how much she loves Boston. I'd offer something similar to the structure he has this year--one year with a player option, but it obviously has to be as more money.

I am holding out hope that he takes the option.

scottyno · Aug 12, 2023

LogansDad said:
I am holding out hope that he takes the option.

Even if he wants to come back to Boston it makes no reason to take the option, it's just throwing away millions. 1 year 10 million would be fairly team friendly if he wanted to come, and taking that still gains him about 4 million dollars.

LogansDad · Aug 13, 2023

scottyno said:
Even if he wants to come back to Boston it makes no reason to take the option, it's just throwing away millions. 1 year 10 million would be fairly team friendly if he wanted to come, and taking that still gains him about 4 million dollars.

I'm not saying it makes any sense, I just hope he does it, LOL.

chawson · Aug 13, 2023

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat said:
Given that he's shown absolutely no hint of falling off a cliff, I really want Turner back next season. Not only does he rake, but his clubhouse reputation is great, and I at least imagine that he's had a good influence on Casas.
I understand that she appears to be somewhat media savvy, but his wife was interviewed during the game today and talked about how much she loves Boston. I'd offer something similar to the structure he has this year--one year with a player option, but it obviously has to be as more money.

Same here. Short of a trade for Eloy Jimenez, which doesn’t totally work with Yoshida’s eventual slide down the defensive spectrum, I’d be happy with a Turner return.

dhappy42 · Sep 15, 2023

I expect this is an unpopular opinion, but if not Justin Turner, I’d give Dalbec another crack at it.

YTF · Sep 15, 2023

scottyno said:
Even if he wants to come back to Boston it makes no reason to take the option, it's just throwing away millions. 1 year 10 million would be fairly team friendly if he wanted to come, and taking that still gains him about 4 million dollars.

He's got to REALLY want to stay in Boston to take that deal and leave at least 6-10M on the table.

Red(s)HawksFan · Sep 15, 2023

dhappy42 said:
I expect this is an unpopular opinion, but if not Justin Turner, I’d give Dalbec another crack at it.

All depends on how aggressively "all in" the new GM/CBO wants to be next season. Dalbec as a RHH corner back-up plus occasional DH (along with a mix of Masa, Devers, maybe Story) would be a cost-effective way of filling that spot. I have an inkling that the new guy isn't going to have a mandate on being cost-effective, particularly if the spending is short-term like JT is and will be.

dhappy42 · Sep 15, 2023

JM3 said:
Dalbec has been pretty meh for a while in AAA after a great start to the season.

Since August 15th he's 18-91 (.198 BA) with 19 walks (.336 OBP) & 42 strikeouts (38.2% strikeout rate). I can't get too excited about giving him a MLB job.

Just throwing it out there. I remember/regret giving up Duran to soon after his messy 2022. Despite his late August fade, Dalbec had a great AAA season — 33HR .940 OPS (and a worrisome 34% K rate). If he didn’t already have “history,” we’d probably be calling for a call up.

RobertsSteal · Sep 15, 2023

I just tried to figure out BTV’s trade simulator for an idea I had. I’ve never used it before but I think it showed my trade as hugely tilted towards the Sox.

So I’m not proposing this is a polished trade idea. Rather, on the hot stove-ish theme of this thread, I’d love to see if there’s a good baseball debate on…
TOR gets Raffy.
BOS gets Vladdy Jr.

Clearly this one trade on its own it wouldn’t make sense with the current roster construction (Casas, Yoshida, etc) plus what I see as an urgent need for better defense.

But does it balance out our LHB-heavy roster and give TOR a younger (albeit expensive) replacement for Chapman.

Obviously neither team would want to face their old star. But that’s not much different than today.

Smarter folks, tell me how you’d make this a better/realistic deal.

Even just for the fun of it.

6-5 Sadler · Sep 16, 2023

I wouldn’t mind giving LAA a call and see what they would take for Brandon Drury. It seems like they’re going through a rebuild (although who knows with them) so they might be willing to part with him to help rebuild their farm.

He’s been a bit of a journeyman over his career but he’s turn himself into a solid hitter recently (wRC+ of 112, 124, and 107 over the past 3 years). He’s also a RH bat with good pull side power and fly ball tendencies which should play well at Fenway.

Drury is a mediocre defender but can adequately play 3 positions (1B, 2B, 3B). I could envision him getting 400+ PAs split across those positions and DH.

At a cost of $8.5M with just one year left on his contract, he could be a solid option as a poor man’s Justin Turner. He’s also 7 years younger than Turner so less likely to fall off a cliff.

I’m not sure what LAA would want but I would be willing to part with a of low-upside couple prospects in the 20-30 range while also hopefully clearing some of the 40-man log jam issues.

What does the Red Sox corner infield look like in 2024?

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